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Thread: Extraverted sensing Se PoLR of EIIs-INFjs

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    Default Extraverted sensing Se PoLR of EIIs-INFjs

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    Last edited by anou; 12-14-2011 at 07:14 PM.

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    Hi,

    Se polr manifests itself in many different ways, yes, we are oblivious to people being romantically interested in us because when we enter into a room, our eyes don't wonder around and catch people who are attractive or are attracted to us; our eyes don't see people and their romantic interest unless they tell us directly that they would like to take us out to lunch, and then we get the clue that they like us; but, otherwise, we focus on the good and bad intentions of others and we look at relationships between people. We look at feelings of other people, to sense their internal temperature.

    As Rasutin said:
    "Extraverted sensing......external statics of objects: (share, texture, impact, force, etc.), what we refer to as properties of an object or objective traits, leading to action toward objects via mobilization or arrangement, manipulation of force to achieve desired results. "

    We can't see objects, we can tell their color and general shape (square, circle, color) but we can not grasp how they can fit in certain spaces, in certain way in a room, we don't like force and we don't like to use force on others; we can't stand to see people hurt, so we can't watch violent depictions. We can't arrange furnature and we will not bipass a system to achieve our wanted results if there is a law or rule that a heirarche has been established.

    I don't buy things because I don't know how or where they will go; I try to minimize because clutter begins to stress me out, I need as much free and moveable space around the home as possible. People find this quality about us very strange.

    We love our duals because they have a place for everything, in a productive, efficient manner, so, we don't stress about where the cups will go and if it will be the best way to put it in a certain spot in the drawer or how many cups we will have to have in the house.

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    I'm not sure how exactly it manifests in EIIs, but I know how IEIs respond to SLEs and I'm currently getting the chance to observe an SEE-LII conflictor relationship up close, so between the two, I think I should have some relevant insights and observations.

    The first thing I've noticed is that while Se-DS types respond very well to clear-cut and straightfoward commands. I constantly ask, "what should I do?" or "what should I pick" and Se-egos are often there with a definitive answer. An EII, in the same situation, does not really want a definitive answer so much as help determining what it is they want to do. Whenever I pose a question like that to my EII friend (or my IEE mom, for that matter), instead of giving me a clear-cut answer, she asks a question, like, "well, which did you have last time?" or "which is more important right now?" Assuming that people give the kind of responses they wish to receive, it seems that delta NFs, rather than wanting a clear cut Se definitive answer, want help determining their own preferences, practical, logical advice to help them figure out exactly what will be best for them personally in this situation.

    So, to sum up, the first thing I've noticed about Se-polr types is that they do not like clear cut commands. When they ask a question about what decision to make, they are generally looking for relevant information (i.e., Te) about their decision, and aid in reaching it, not for someone to tell them what to do.

    Another way Se-polr can manifest, especially in EIIs, is in their dislike of hierarchical rankings. Obviously, some things need to be ranked from best to worst: in a horse race, you have to rank the horses from first to cross the finish line to last to cross the finish line. (This relates to something I once read on Rick's site about how we don't mind use of our polr function in places where it is obviously necessary.) But when it comes to actions and especially people, EIIs are loathe to rank, and quick to remind people of the arbitrariness of the criteria and the general lack of utility of rankings, preferring to focus on how a given situation could be right for a given person or purpose, regardless of whether it is ranked higher or lower, better or worse. EIIs are frustrated by people who are constantly measuring themselves by the success of others, constantly comparing one figure to another to determine which one is better, or stronger, or greater.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    I'm not sure how exactly it manifests in EIIs, but I know how IEIs respond to SLEs and I'm currently getting the chance to observe an SEE-LII conflictor relationship up close, so between the two, I think I should have some relevant insights and observations.

    The first thing I've noticed is that while Se-DS types respond very well to clear-cut and straightfoward commands. I constantly ask, "what should I do?" or "what should I pick" and Se-egos are often there with a definitive answer. An EII, in the same situation, does not really want a definitive answer so much as help determining what it is they want to do. Whenever I pose a question like that to my EII friend (or my IEE mom, for that matter), instead of giving me a clear-cut answer, she asks a question, like, "well, which did you have last time?" or "which is more important right now?" Assuming that people give the kind of responses they wish to receive, it seems that delta NFs, rather than wanting a clear cut Se definitive answer, want help determining their own preferences, practical, logical advice to help them figure out exactly what will be best for them personally in this situation.

    So, to sum up, the first thing I've noticed about Se-polr types is that they do not like clear cut commands. When they ask a question about what decision to make, they are generally looking for relevant information (i.e., Te) about their decision, and aid in reaching it, not for someone to tell them what to do.

    Another way Se-polr can manifest, especially in EIIs, is in their dislike of hierarchical rankings. Obviously, some things need to be ranked from best to worst: in a horse race, you have to rank the horses from first to cross the finish line to last to cross the finish line. (This relates to something I once read on Rick's site about how we don't mind use of our polr function in places where it is obviously necessary.) But when it comes to actions and especially people, EIIs are loathe to rank, and quick to remind people of the arbitrariness of the criteria and the general lack of utility of rankings, preferring to focus on how a given situation could be right for a given person or purpose, regardless of whether it is ranked higher or lower, better or worse. EIIs are frustrated by people who are constantly measuring themselves by the success of others, constantly comparing one figure to another to determine which one is better, or stronger, or greater.
    we like it because it keeps people who would overrequest stuff from us away from us

    As Rasutin said:
    "Extraverted sensing......external statics of objects: (share, texture, impact, force, etc.), what we refer to as properties of an object or objective traits, leading to action toward objects via mobilization or arrangement, manipulation of force to achieve desired results. "
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 03-21-2010 at 10:58 PM.

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    I stated this somewhere else before but one way Se-PoLR manifests in me is sometimes I don't act/react/respond quickly enough to unforseen circumstances.

    Before I do something, I try to think of every single thing that could happen. I usually start from the best and worst, and try to fill everything in between. Of course, it is nigh impossible for one person to do this, and, as a result, there are times when situations arise that I had not considered. When this happens, it is difficult to act in manner which will give me the exact results I am looking for.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha View Post
    I`m not an english native speaker, sorry. If the title of my thread sounds odd, feel free to correct.
    Nah, it's okay - I'm over that phase.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha View Post
    I actually believe, Maritsa is a kind person.
    I think, one shouldn`t use her (or anyone else) for jokes..
    Agree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha View Post
    I`m not an english native speaker, sorry. If the title of my thread sounds odd, feel free to correct. But there is no need of mocking me...


    edit: I actually believe, Maritsa is a kind person.
    I think, one shouldn`t use her (or anyone else) for jokes..
    Heh, I understand your feelings. I don't like when people mock or make light of what I consider serious, either.


    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Hi,

    Se polr manifests itself in many different ways, yes, we are oblivious to people being romantically interested in us because when we enter into a room, our eyes don't wonder around and catch people who are attractive or are attracted to us; our eyes don't see people and their romantic interest unless they tell us directly that they would like to take us out to lunch, and then we get the clue that they like us; but, otherwise, we focus on the good and bad intentions of others and we look at relationships between people. We look at feelings of other people, to sense their internal temperature.
    I agree with and relate to the bolded. I seriously am pretty clueless a lot of the time when it comes to people expressing interest in me. They pretty much have to come up and formally announce it to me before I get the idea. Otherwise I will not get it until someone points it out to me or until (much later) I replay the events in my head and pick up the pattern. Which is really annoying to me, because I think I've missed some good opportunities...

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    We can't see objects, we can tell their color and general shape (square, circle, color) but we can not grasp how they can fit in certain spaces, in certain way in a room, we don't like force and we don't like to use force on others; we can't stand to see people hurt, so we can't watch violent depictions. We can't arrange furnature and we will not bipass a system to achieve our wanted results if there is a law or rule that a heirarche has been established.
    I do relate somewhat to the bolded, though I think some of that can be acquired via training. But, yes, it's certainly not a natural skill of mine - interior decorating and arranging.

    I disagree with the underlined. For myself, I'll follow rules fairly happily and faithfully unless 1) I perceive that they are not "real" rules, not taken seriously by anyone, or 2) they contradict my own personally felt convictions about what should be or what is practical. In the latter case I'll first try to adjust the rules (or find loopholes, etc.), but if that doesn't work... I either just go ahead and do what I think/feel is best or just put up with it until I can leave, depending on the cost vs. gain.

    I disagree with the word "can't" in the rest of it. Some things may not come naturally, but that doesn't make it impossible or even that I couldn't develop some sort of taste for it, in the right circumstances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    I don't buy things because I don't know how or where they will go; I try to minimize because clutter begins to stress me out, I need as much free and moveable space around the home as possible. People find this quality about us very strange.

    We love our duals because they have a place for everything, in a productive, efficient manner, so, we don't stress about where the cups will go and if it will be the best way to put it in a certain spot in the drawer or how many cups we will have to have in the house.
    The general essence of this makes sense, though the details might vary. I certainly don't find de-cluttering easy to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    The first thing I've noticed is that while Se-DS types respond very well to clear-cut and straightfoward commands. I constantly ask, "what should I do?" or "what should I pick" and Se-egos are often there with a definitive answer. An EII, in the same situation, does not really want a definitive answer so much as help determining what it is they want to do. Whenever I pose a question like that to my EII friend (or my IEE mom, for that matter), instead of giving me a clear-cut answer, she asks a question, like, "well, which did you have last time?" or "which is more important right now?" Assuming that people give the kind of responses they wish to receive, it seems that delta NFs, rather than wanting a clear cut Se definitive answer, want help determining their own preferences, practical, logical advice to help them figure out exactly what will be best for them personally in this situation.
    Yes. Though sometimes that might include preferences from the person getting questioned. But, yeah, help figuring out the answer to, "What is it I really want here?"

    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    So, to sum up, the first thing I've noticed about Se-polr types is that they do not like clear cut commands. When they ask a question about what decision to make, they are generally looking for relevant information (i.e., Te) about their decision, and aid in reaching it, not for someone to tell them what to do.
    Mm, I hate people being all overbearingly bossy toward me (which is what it feels like). Or just telling me what to do (especially when they demonstrate no understanding of the specific situation). It makes me rebellious.

    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    Another way Se-polr can manifest, especially in EIIs, is in their dislike of hierarchical rankings. Obviously, some things need to be ranked from best to worst: in a horse race, you have to rank the horses from first to cross the finish line to last to cross the finish line. (This relates to something I once read on Rick's site about how we don't mind use of our polr function in places where it is obviously necessary.) But when it comes to actions and especially people, EIIs are loathe to rank, and quick to remind people of the arbitrariness of the criteria and the general lack of utility of rankings, preferring to focus on how a given situation could be right for a given person or purpose, regardless of whether it is ranked higher or lower, better or worse. EIIs are frustrated by people who are constantly measuring themselves by the success of others, constantly comparing one figure to another to determine which one is better, or stronger, or greater.
    Yeah, that is frustrating, but I'm not sure it bothers me as much as some other things. Then, again, maybe I just haven't had enough experience with it for it to make a significant impact on me.


    One situation that feels PoLR-ish to me is where there's a group of people being loud, with lots of movement, any sort of "pushing" each other around (verbally, emotionally, physically, etc.), particularly if I can't escape it and it's invading my personal space. I often feel like I don't know how to handle it, and freeze up or say something dumb or deflating to their mood. And I really hate loud arguments that don't show progress anywhere, that just go in circles; it sort of... flattens me and puts me in an unhealthy mood. Another PoLR-feeling-inducing environment is an arcade or carnival with lots of activity.

    Which reminds me - attention to physical space. More than once I've had friends grab me and pull me out of harm's way or through obstacles on a busy city street. Heh, in fact, Cracka can vouch for that. I simply... don't notice some things sometimes.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Which reminds me - attention to physical space. More than once I've had friends grab me and pull me out of harm's way or through obstacles on a busy city street. Heh, in fact, Cracka can vouch for that. I simply... don't notice some things sometimes.
    Heh, yeah, I've had to do that too with EIIs.
    I saved one from a car running her over : /

    I'm reminded of one EII, who I had to do that for, who made a strong stand against someone trying to 'rip off our group' at a beach - some people were going to try to charge us for walking on a beach... when we've done it before but there was no charge. (They were just mad at us because we didn't sit and talk with them like before). So the EII was feeling like making a stand....

    [it was kind of like what Minde talked about here: "Mm, I hate people being all overbearingly bossy toward me (which is what it feels like). Or just telling me what to do (especially when they demonstrate no understanding of the specific situation). It makes me rebellious." They were being bossy and sort of trying to haggle us to get them to pay up]

    ....and she did a good job of it, but I think she eventually needed some tips that trying to "reason" with them as to why they were wrong wasn't going to do anything. Eventually I and the rest of the group sort of had to pull her away from the situation, and just leave the people who were trying to rip us off.

    Sometimes EIIs need a little guidance with situations where people aren't really trying to be reasonable or fair, so you trying to act that way towards them is going to be ineffectual, or even detrimental.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    .
    Do you not have any clue as to what Se-polr means?

    You too Suzzy....

    Se-polr is not being clumsy, it's not seeing the object in front of you and running into it. I have excellent sense of spacial direction; I can get lost in the wilderness with no compus and find my way back in a jiffy. I never forget where I place things, in fact, I have and exceptional memory. I am an excellent driver, very cautious of people and animals and have never ever gotten into a car accident.

    "To a certain extent, EIIs can be oblivious to hints from someone who is romantically interested in them. Therefore, this gives the other party the wrong impression that they are not interested in them.
    Well I can't really say this has been a problem...I can generally see in someones eyes if they like me or not. Though there was an instance where my husbands best friend approached me asking me to run away with him and I had no idea how he could have thought such a thing."
    YOU DIDN'T GET THE POINT....

    "I don't like going to the dentist, hairdressers and all those sorts of places.
    I only cook because I need to for the rest of the family."
    I LOVE TO COOK HEALTHY MEALS AND WHATEVER I CHOOSE TO COOK I WILL LEARN 25 VARIATIES OF AT LEAST.

    As Rasutin said:
    "Extraverted sensing......external statics of objects: (share, texture, impact, force, etc.), what we refer to as properties of an object or objective traits, leading to action toward objects via mobilization or arrangement, manipulation of force to achieve desired results. "


    both of you are manipulating people here to think you are INFj when you are not, STOP copying my stuff and pretending that you are me.

    Minde...e I'll first try to adjust the rules

    INFj's don't do this, irrational types do this..
    we comply with rules, order, establishment and don't manipulate them to our liking, this is what makes us lawful and honest citizens.

    "One situation that feels PoLR-ish to me is where there's a group of people being loud, with lots of movement, any sort of "pushing" each other around (verbally, emotionally, physically, etc.), particularly if I can't escape it and it's invading my personal space. I often feel like I don't know how to handle it, and freeze up or say something dumb or deflating to their mood. And I really hate loud arguments that don't show progress anywhere, that just go in circles; it sort of... flattens me and puts me in an unhealthy mood. Another PoLR-feeling-inducing environment is an arcade or carnival with lots of activity"

    To Se dominent this is encroachment of territory...like yours; I don't feel uncomfortable in such situations. I don't ever complain about invasion of space; I prefer occupation of space with people. bumping is impact and force of Se

    "Which reminds me - attention to physical space. More than once I've had friends grab me and pull me out of harm's way or through obstacles on a busy city street. Heh, in fact, Cracka can vouch for that. I simply... don't notice some things sometimes."

    I bet you were distracted....for me it's more of the case of limited perception, that doesn't mean I can not see cars comming I run into simple objects not cars, like sides of tables and bump into couch...

    You two should have your vision checked, maybe get some glasses.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 03-22-2010 at 02:44 AM.

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    Sasha, both of these women are ESFp, I would discard their feedback, because it will not contribute to your understanding of my type.

    Se polr does not allow me to catagorize within my mind the different textures of objects, yes there are many and I do try to keep a count, like velvet, silk, crinkle, knit, however when purchasing a mix of these fabrics, I am unable to coordinate them. I choose all white for my bedding, because I want to keep it simple, but even then I noticed that when I took home the fabrics for the duvet, pillow and sheets that somehow each was a different color and texture (pillow cases are like a little yellow, the duvet is courser, the sheets are soft and bright white) that when I picked them out at the store, I couldn't tell which went with what. They are a little different from one another, but I don't mind, I hope no one else does...I don't know what else to say, except how I can't see the difference in them when I go to buy them...It makes me so frustrated that I can't even get it right with just plain white, it makes me feel inferior, and frustrated and incapable of just letting things be...it hurt me emotionally to have to feel this way.

    These women don't understand that such a small task as buying a bedding is so overly exhausing and frustrating for me and it makes me so emotional. I wish I could step into a store like a lot of ESTj's I see at IKEA and just pick out the right thing and be out in 15 second; it's not like my eyes are captivated by many of the other styles, I can't even get it right with just one color let alone loving like pink for instance like my ESFp friend does.

    In 11th grade I went to school with blue and black socks and my sister noticed so threw out the blue socks so I wouldn't confuse them.

    There was another EII woman at Ikea, shopping next to me for sheets, like myself, she would pick one up, look at it, then put it back, she was in the sheet section for 2 hours, as I watched her ask people about the sheets, their sheet count and differences in fabric...etc...she ended up picking white sheets.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 03-22-2010 at 02:36 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Sasha, both of these women are ESFp, I would discard their feedback, because it will not contribute to your understanding of my type.
    I do not agree with Maritsa.
    I believe Minde is EII, subtype.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    I do not agree with Maritsa.
    Only my dual cousin knows and can accept this aspect about me without criticism and judgement, yet you have not known me in all of your years of being alive so think as you would wish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    I do not agree with Maritsa.
    I believe Minde is EII, subtype.
    You didn't read my post below about how she feels when she is being shoved. There are no subtype.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Sasha, both of these women are ESFp, I would discard their feedback, because it will not contribute to your understanding of my type.

    Se polr does not allow me to catagorize within my mind the different textures of objects, yes there are many and I do try to keep a count, like velvet, silk, crinkle, knit, however when purchasing a mix of these fabrics, I am unable to coordinate them. I choose all white for my bedding, because I want to keep it simple, but even then I noticed that when I took home the fabrics for the duvet, pillow and sheets that somehow each was a different color and texture (pillow cases are like a little yellow, the duvet is courser, the sheets are soft and bright white) that when I picked them out at the store, I couldn't tell which went with what. They are a little different from one another, but I don't mind, I hope no one else does...I don't know what else to say, except how I can't see the difference in them when I go to buy them...It makes me so frustrated that I can't even get it right with just plain white, it makes me feel inferior, and frustrated and incapable of just letting things be...it hurt me emotionally to have to feel this way.

    These women don't understand that such a small task as buying a bedding is so overly exhausing and frustrating for me and it makes me so emotional. I wish I could step into a store like a lot of ESTj's I see at IKEA and just pick out the right thing and be out in 15 second; it's not like my eyes are captivated by many of the other styles, I can't even get it right with just one color let alone loving like pink for instance like my ESFp friend does.

    In 11th grade I went to school with blue and black socks and my sister noticed so threw out the blue socks so I wouldn't confuse them.

    There was another EII woman at Ikea, shopping next to me for sheets, like myself, she would pick one up, look at it, then put it back, she was in the sheet section for 2 hours, as I watched her ask people about the sheets, their sheet count and differences in fabric...etc...she ended up picking white sheets.
    Back off Maritsa! Suzzy is INFj, you ARE NOT, you fool yourself and people into believing you are one. You have overstepped the line for me yet again. It's time to get real to yourself. You contradict what an INFj is, your words you say are B.S. You call people liars, yet you lie to even yourself. It's time for you to GET REAL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Suzzy View Post
    People being forceful to me or others has been difficult for me to deal with in the past but is now at the point where I have had a guts full of that behaviour and I stand up to it somewhat better.
    You are one of these forceful people, that Suzzy is talking about.
    Hakuna Matata

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Only my dual cousin knows and can accept this aspect about me without criticism and judgement, yet you have not known me in all of your years of being alive so think as you would wish.
    I don't really care what your cousin says or does or is, it doesn't matter when I'm determining Minde's type.

    My knowledge of your family, or you, is not a part in that decision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sarahcoles View Post
    Back off Maritsa! Suzzy is INFj, you ARE NOT, you fool yourself and people into believing you are one. You have overstepped the line for me yet again. It's time to get real to yourself. You contradict what an INFj is, your words you say are B.S. You call people liars, yet you lie to even yourself. It's time for you to GET REAL.



    You are one of these forceful people, that Suzzy is talking about.
    Is that a threat?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Is that a threat?
    More like a suggestion - Get a clue.
    Hakuna Matata

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    Quote Originally Posted by sarahcoles View Post
    More like a suggestion - Get a clue.
    NO..
    Try reading before you make judgements on type and understand how elements are expressed in individuals as regards to how they react to the world around them.

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    I'd like to point out the population in general that this is an excellent example of how Maritsa tends to filter incoming information to fit her preconceived determinations. For example, because she's decided that I can't possibly be INFj, she decides that what I feel is an example of my PoLR is really just me having bad vision. Does she care to know how I or Suzzy are really feeling? No. Does she bother to investigate further to understand our perceptions and thoughts? No. Does she care to know the facts and details surrounding the situations and events that we use as examples? Not so much.

    It's basically, "My mind is made up; don't bother me with the facts."

    Which kind of bothers me, because for one I think that if Maritsa were a little more open-minded and understanding and inquisitive she could make an excellent socionist because she does have a good start on quite a few things, from what I've observed. For another, I don't really like having people purposefully misunderstand and malign me. For yet another, I think it's generally just an unhealthy mindset. But... oh, well, I guess.


    Also, I'm not attempting to address Maritsa directly because I don't think she wants to have an actual conversation with me (you know, exchange of thoughts and information) unless I first agreed 100% with her and did things 100% her way. Which is also annoying. But, again, what's a girl to do?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    NO..
    Try reading before you make judgements on type and understand how elements are expressed in individuals as regards to how they react to the world around them.
    You can pretend all you like to be an INFj, and make yourself 'sound' like one on the web and even to yourself, but you will not fool another one into thinking you are.

    Do you know you hurt and degrade people by always telling them they are another type, just the type "you" think they are and then keep on nagging that they are that.

    Why attack them in this way all the time. Do you like to be a B.t.h to everyone? How proud are you of yourself? Do you ever question perhaps you got your own type wrong? Do you feel powerful and in control when you treat people like this?
    Hakuna Matata

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    I'd like to point out the population in general that this is an excellent example of how Maritsa tends to filter incoming information to fit her preconceived determinations. For example, because she's decided that I can't possibly be INFj, she decides that what I feel is an example of my PoLR is really just me having bad vision. Does she care to know how I or Suzzy are really feeling? No. Does she bother to investigate further to understand our perceptions and thoughts? No. Does she care to know the facts and details surrounding the situations and events that we use as examples? Not so much.

    It's basically, "My mind is made up; don't bother me with the facts."

    Which kind of bothers me, because for one I think that if Maritsa were a little more open-minded and understanding and inquisitive she could make an excellent socionist because she does have a good start on quite a few things, from what I've observed. For another, I don't really like having people purposefully misunderstand and malign me. For yet another, I think it's generally just an unhealthy mindset. But... oh, well, I guess.


    Also, I'm not attempting to address Maritsa directly because I don't think she wants to have an actual conversation with me (you know, exchange of thoughts and information) unless I first agreed 100% with her and did things 100% her way. Which is also annoying. But, again, what's a girl to do?
    Agreed. I'm sorry she treats you this way Minde.
    Hakuna Matata

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    Quote Originally Posted by sarahcoles View Post
    Agreed. I'm sorry she treats you this way Minde.
    Same

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    This wonderful friend, LSE, look me shopping the other day and helped me pick out sexy langerie, I loved the colors, but if I had been left on my own, I wouldn't have considered them, I don't know why. My eyes would have gravitated to black. The colors were red, silk light purple, and bright pink...wow, I never owned anything like that before....thank goodness for my duals.

    I have never been known to appologize for bumping into another individual, I am keenly aware of people's shape and I think this is more of an emotional feed to them. My ESFp friend will yank something out of my hand and appologize for it, or move me out of my way and appologize for it; she does it and she knows she does and yet she appologizes. I DON'T do it and I never have to appologize. I never remove an item from anyone's desk, refrigerator, personal or private possession without either first asking kindly, or calling attention to it by pointing at it.

    I ignor people who use others to group up against an individual because I find that behavior emotionally abusive and intrusive, so I never do it myself.
    Justify yourself all you want by your stories, you do not fool us. Think maritsa, think, use your mind and know (if you truly are an intuitive) that there is truth in what we say. Be open.
    Hakuna Matata

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    I'd like to point out the population in general that this is an excellent example of how Maritsa tends to filter incoming information to fit her preconceived determinations. For example, because she's decided that I can't possibly be INFj, she decides that what I feel is an example of my PoLR is really just me having bad vision. Does she care to know how I or Suzzy are really feeling? No. Does she bother to investigate further to understand our perceptions and thoughts? No. Does she care to know the facts and details surrounding the situations and events that we use as examples? Not so much.

    It's basically, "My mind is made up; don't bother me with the facts."


    Which kind of bothers me, because for one I think that if Maritsa were a little more open-minded and understanding and inquisitive she could make an excellent socionist because she does have a good start on quite a few things, from what I've observed. For another, I don't really like having people purposefully misunderstand and malign me. For yet another, I think it's generally just an unhealthy mindset. But... oh, well, I guess.


    Also, I'm not attempting to address Maritsa directly because I don't think she wants to have an actual conversation with me (you know, exchange of thoughts and information) unless I first agreed 100% with her and did things 100% her way. Which is also annoying. But, again, what's a girl to do?
    yep, Maritsa did that to me too.

    Also did you notice how she contradicted herself when "correcting" you about what Se-POLR means? At first she said it's not being clumsy. Then she said it's not seeing the object in front of you and running into it. Then she said she, supposedly with Se-POLR, always has excellent spatial orientation.

    She does that ALL the time. And I've noticed she tends to waffle and convolute like this in cases where her VI does not match the actual typing.

    Did you also notice how emotionally upset Maritsa got in that post (even obviously conveyed through writing) when things got illogical? Ti-HA!! Also some Fe in there--we drove her into a tantrum over this!!

    Pretty obvious that she is IEI, or not EII at the very least. So, that could be an obvious reason why people who are different from her type themselves EII No need to get all up in arms over it, Maritsa! Socionics is such that people naturally fit in with their respective types and quadras, you shouldn't have to fight it. Why dont you go hang out with the beta quadra a bit, Maritsa, you might find yourself happier there, just as I found myself happy with the deltas after a lot of friction with the betas.
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    Let's see Se-polr also allows me to recognize force of individuals and I step aside or remove myself from a physical situations. I can't be completley without the favor of this function; using my Ne I can make a painting with multiple textures. I have a painting in my mind now of black checkers with course grey street, on it is one bright red car, a 50's kind of vehicle with black wheels and chrome bumber; the tree on the right of the painting is multi textured as well; even though the painting's textures do not go with each other, the painting is creative and a piece of art so no one really minds how it is expressed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sarahcoles View Post
    Agreed. I'm sorry she treats you this way Minde.
    Thank you, Sarah. (Do you mind if I call you Sarah, or do you prefer sarahcoles?) I think it's kind of sad, too, and a bit hurtful especially when she keeps trying to call me a liar. But, unfortunately, I think your attempts to talk with her are in vain.

    I do appreciate the agreement, though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Let's see Se-polr also allows me to recognize force of individuals and I step aside or remove myself from a physical situations. I can't be completley without the favor of this function; using my Ne I can make a painting with multiple textures.

    This is interesting. Being able to recognize force is something I would attribute to an individual adept at Se, where as a Se-PoLR is fairly oblivious to this sort of thing.
    Ceci n'est pas une eii.




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    Back off Maritsa! Suzzy is INFj, you ARE NOT, you fool yourself and people into believing you are one. You have overstepped the line for me yet again. It's time to get real to yourself. You contradict what an INFj is, your words you say are B.S. You call people liars, yet you lie to even yourself. It's time for you to GET REAL.
    sarahcoles,


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    In this thread, you will find Sarahcoles and her mum using Se by "leading to action toward objects via mobilization or arrangement, manipulation of force to achieve desired results. "...as Rasputin Described...and because of my lack or polr of I do not do the same by calling more capable persons then I to assist in warding off people, threatening them and getting them to accept something that isn't...this is why in the real world I am not able to "force" people into doing things that they either can not do themselves or will not do themselves, thereby only being able to point the obvious and allow people who have control of Se and I have made good friends with, to direct and use the information that I provide. Otherwise, I can not defend myself in calling off unleashed hostility...is this a good example of Se polr?

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greeter View Post
    This is interesting. Being able to recognize force is something I would attribute to an individual adept at Se, where as a Se-PoLR is fairly oblivious to this sort of thing.
    Recognize, fear, knowing incapability of on the conscious level and ignoring or removing of self as the best alternative method to dealing with such a situation as to make sure that it does not pressure this location of my psyche so that I do not collapse.

    My dual recognizes such attempts right away and either removes me from the situation or becomes the queen of the place so that no one will be able to penetrate this part of my psyche. As you observed with Rasputin in the ENTj or ESTj thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greeter View Post
    This is interesting. Being able to recognize force is something I would attribute to an individual adept at Se, where as a Se-PoLR is fairly oblivious to this sort of thing.
    or Se-valuing. . .such as Se-DS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Recognize, fear, knowing incapability of on the conscious level and ignoring or removing of self as the best alternative method to dealing with such a situation as to make sure that it does not pressure this location of my psyche so that I do not collapse.

    My dual recognizes such attempts right away and either removes me from the situation or becomes the queen of the place so that no one will be able to penetrate this part of my psyche. As you observed with Rasputin in the ENTj or ESTj thread.
    So your duals are SLE then. You've been mistyping them too apparently.
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    Yet Se dominent types like the three who now have joined this thread, will persistantly use their Se to call off attention from me because they recognize this to be my weak function and defensless against them, because I don't "fight" back, they will push for as much clutter as possible to blockade my voice.

    They will add junk, unrelated clutter, misguided information to pressure my Se... one reason why I can not be "enemies" with such a "forcefull" type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    In this thread, you will find Sarahcoles and her mum using Se by "leading to action toward objects via mobilization or arrangement, manipulation of force to achieve desired results. "...as Rasputin Described...and because of my lack or polr of I do not do the same by calling more capable persons then I to assist in warding off people, threatening them and getting them to accept something that isn't...this is why in the real world I am not able to "force" people into doing things that they either can not do themselves or will not do themselves, thereby only being able to point the obvious and allow people who have control of Se and I have made good friends with, to direct and use the information that I provide. Otherwise, I can not defend myself in calling off unleashed hostility...is this a good example of Se polr?
    No sweetie, that's you darling. YOU are the one who does that to a lot of people here.

    On the contrary I haven't felt that from sarahcoles or her mom at all. They are supporting their typings and those of others against your nonsensical onslaught.
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    One example is this such unrelated information that Se puts out...it's irrational and irrelevant...

    "So your duals are SLE then. You've been mistyping them too apparently."-Workaholicanon

    Yet, because they are so natural at using Se, they can't notice themselves do it...it's force, what can you say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Recognize, fear, knowing incapability of on the conscious level and ignoring or removing of self as the best alternative method to dealing with such a situation as to make sure that it does not pressure this location of my psyche so that I do not collapse.

    My dual recognizes such attempts right away and either removes me from the situation or becomes the queen of the place so that no one will be able to penetrate this part of my psyche. As you observed with Rasputin in the ENTj or ESTj thread.
    I can believe that an ESTj would remove an INFj in a situation that is dangerous for the INFj. But if the INFj is already aware of the dangerous situation, why would there be a need for the dual? Removing yourself from a bad situation is easily done once one recognizes it is bad.

    Also, I can see that one of the ways an ESTj can "protect" the INFj is by taking command of the situation (ie. becoming the "queen" of the place). But, again, is it really necessary if an INFj (according to you) knows how to get out of it?
    Ceci n'est pas une eii.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Yet Se dominent types like the three who now have joined this thread, will persistantly use their Se to call off attention from me because they recognize this to be my weak function and defensless against them, because I don't "fight" back, they will push for as much clutter as possible to blockade my voice.

    They will add junk, unrelated clutter, misguided information to pressure my Se... one reason why I can not be "enemies" with such a "forcefull" type.
    This is you "not fighting back"? And so defenseless? You're not defenseless, your defenses just lack Te and reflect weak and defensive Ti. So they hold no water in the delta section.

    And sweetie you are the one who clutters up everyones' threads with misguided info and unrelated junk. Sounds like someone's projecting.

    p.s. you blockade your own voice the more you show your own ignorance. We are just calling you out on it, and supporting each other as well as the newbies here who are not familiar with your ignorance yet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    One example is this such unrelated information that Se puts out...it's irrational and irrelevant...

    "So your duals are SLE then. You've been mistyping them too apparently."-Workaholicanon

    Yet, because they are so natural at using Se, they can't notice themselves do it...it's force, what can you say.
    if that's what Se is, then you have plenty of it
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greeter View Post
    I can believe that an ESTj would remove an INFj in a situation that is dangerous for the INFj. But if the INFj is already aware of the dangerous situation, why would there be a need for the dual? Removing yourself from a bad situation is easily done once one recognizes it is bad.

    Also, I can see that one of the ways an ESTj can "protect" the INFj is by taking command of the situation (ie. becoming the "queen" of the place). But, again, is it really necessary if an INFj (according to you) knows how to get out of it?
    We can't get out of the situation in this case, because one side of us wants to contribute to knowledge and yet another wants to help; ESTj would either tell everyone to back off, or as you saw Rasputin told me to stop talking in not such a direct way. I have a need to convey information dispite the Se-polr and stubborness, drive, and consistancy don't help in this matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    she contradicted herself when "correcting" you about what Se-POLR means? At first she said it's not being clumsy. Then she said it's not seeing the object in front of you and running into it. Then she said she, supposedly with Se-POLR, always has excellent spatial orientation.

    She does that ALL the time. And I've noticed she tends to waffle and convolute like this in cases where her VI does not match the actual typing.
    hehehe i picked up on that to

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Thank you, Sarah. (Do you mind if I call you Sarah, or do you prefer sarahcoles?) I think it's kind of sad, too, and a bit hurtful especially when she keeps trying to call me a liar. But, unfortunately, I think your attempts to talk with her are in vain.

    I do appreciate the agreement, though.
    Sarah is good I don't mind at all.
    It is sad, and i know my attempt maybe in vain to her, but she was/is misleading people, so i decided to put across my view in hopes of helping people to find the real truth. Plus she insulted Suzzy (My mum who is INFj)

    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    sarahcoles,



    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    So your duals are SLE then. You've been mistyping them too apparently.
    I think she has been to.

    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    No sweetie, that's you darling. YOU are the one who does that to a lot of people here.

    On the contrary I haven't felt that from sarahcoles or her mom at all. They are supporting their typings and those of others against your nonsensical onslaught.
    Thankyou

    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    p.s. you blockade your own voice the more you show your own ignorance. We are just calling you out on it, and supporting each other as well as the newbies here who are not familiar with your ignorance yet.
    ALL FOR ONE AND ONE FOR ALL

    Hakuna Matata

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