I will admit I love to cuddle and put my head on shoulders.
I will admit I love to cuddle and put my head on shoulders.
D-SEI9w1
This is me and my dual being scientific together
So pinnochio, you were saying about shared opinions and good relationships, that Fi valuers are those types of people who say that they need someone, for example, with the same political views as they do? Same "Fi." What about the same shared enjoyment of activities, "Te?" Where as Ti valuers need to have more shared "Fe" and "Ti?" Alright, obviously I'm just throwing these extra things out there. So if this is somewhat true, and could be worded perhaps better, can you give me some more examples? So far I understand you're just speaking of shared opinions better for an Fi relationship. Te, encompass all through learning by means of, Fi, becoming attached to viewpoints. Fe, tolerate conflict through contact by means of, Ti, perfecting themselves through experience. Just thought I'd throw this in, I tend to adapt to people, can come across as knowing and thinking similar things based on maneuvering my personality, sort of akin to emotivist dichotomy, in a rarer, choosier and somewhat random context. Not always for the sake of learning, but for the sake of positive interaction actually, even though I also relate to constructivist associations. I guess you can call me someone who wants to be similar with those I really like, and on good terms, and I notice often that people like difference, and sometimes I'm unable to provide difference because I'm so used to being with them. Many times I'm not interested at all in interacting with new people, or putting myself "out there" once again.
Another thing is that lot of times I'm awkward and totally experiment by going against normalcy, stray away from maintaining good terms if I feel no attachment, and I'll try to say something rude without coming across like I actually have done so, in secret terminology like. I can be pretty different and internally wild.
Last edited by 717495; 03-22-2010 at 04:35 PM.
I've seen claims on this forum thatOriginally Posted by polikujm
requires shared ideology in relationships, which seems almost the same as what you describe for
.
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
I think any type can say this in frustration but I'm pretty sure Vero is a static type tho.
Typically I would say to others, "I behave differently with different groups but I don't think I'm a different person."
My behavior is dictated by business or social enviroment and I act practically according to such norms which I see fit to accept or ignore.
Anyways, how I typed Vero was not based merely on this but on a lot of interaction between me and her within chatbox. I'm almost 100% sure she's Ne-base function but we typically conflict across gender/ethical-logical lines.
I think this is true once a relationship is established, but for a ILE this is not a easy place for them to accept. Once a ILE accepts a person into his small private world, it's unlikely they will be left alone or unaccounted for in anything they do.
A SEI always in some way subordinates to the ILE intellectually, this is because they recognize the dedication that the ILE has to such goals. While a ILE will subordinate to a SEI domestically because that is not a concern for them.
A ILE is someone who has unstable distance in their relationships, they can be super-close or seem to be super-close and warm, and then that distance becomes distant and cold. This is because they're like a child, spontaneous in their displays of affection and anger alike. A SEI doesn't care and stays close.
Well maybe Fi types aren't as opinionated about as many things, there are basically deeper things but a less amount of things, so they have more leniency to try to find that specialness that is shared, where as the attraction to Fe interaction stems from the argument, contact, and agreement of disagreement. Problems are taken less seriously and more with recreation or interest. Rather there comes about less problem from discussion, when personal things are shared and conflicted. It's kind of the good/bad model. If there were only no bad, then everything would be good. But we need bad to support good, because there exists bad. Bad is only a point of view.I've seen claims on this forum that
This is so funny. In order to be SEI you must want to cuddle a lot?? wtf????
The saddest ESFj
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yep, without it I lose all hope of being with someone. without touch, we can't have anything.
D-SEI
This is me and my dual being scientific together
Honestly when I saw this girl she kind of reminded me of Bee. Like looking at pictures of Bee..she's like a little quiet fairy, and very small and cute, but not just physically...like the essence or something. I don't know if all SEIs are like that? But even though Gulanzon is an endearing nerdy anime fag who annoyingly derails threads by his nerdy anime perception of Socionics, I almost think there's something to that. This SEI thing, that is. Not Gulanzon's nerdy anime views as a whole.
I would say that is a fair perspective dolphin.
D-SEI
This is me and my dual being scientific together
Well whatever my dual is, I know she's going to be a 7w8, so since socionics is bullshit I think I'll start from there.
cuddling? Seriously?
I mean, I came from a very untouchy, unfeely home, so you don't think that might have something to do with it??
Last edited by electric sheep; 03-22-2010 at 06:44 PM.
The saddest ESFj
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Enneagram does not have duality, even if you think you get along with a certain enneatype. I mean, people think they have the image of their dual right, and then something new surprises them.
Yeah, I'm starting to think that too. And that I'm clearly in the wrong quadra. :-p
"Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."
I just can't take anyone seriously who tells me I'm a certain type because of the amount of distance I prefer to have with my friends/girlfriends, or if I'm cuddly or not. Of the 6 or 7 billion people in the world, you can't expect 1/16th of them to all be cuddly like cute little fictional anime characters. There are just too many external factors that can influence our thoughts of what a relationship should be like.
For the record, I get very close to some people, but it takes time. Someone who thinks that since I'm being nice to them, that gives them some kind of super friend status so they get to follow me everywhere I go and hang out with all my friends and spend every waking moment with me. That fucks up my life and all my arrangements and I'm not going to let anyone do that. I control the pace of the relationship, not them. But I guess if I don't feel confident that they wont fuck up other areas of my life, I guess we aren't a good match then, are we?
Yea poli I see your point, but 7w8 is the just the current theory, 7w6 has been thoroughly discounted. Looking at my history, LII 1w9 is the next possibility. That's just what I've experienced though, and I think that past experience has a huge influence on who we choose in the future. I dunno, I guess I should keep my mind open
The saddest ESFj
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Come back!
I guess this settles it - not all SEIs are cuddly.
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
I guess this settles it - not all SEIs are cuddly... but I'd rather you didn't change your theory on my account! I have the feeling that ESI could make a lot of sense for me.
"Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."
You have a "feeling"? You mean you don't base your judgements on solid factual information?
The saddest ESFj
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I start with feelings, then gather facts!
"Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."
Yes, this Fe-SEI I know doesn't like hugs or contact. She's more into individual displays. Where as I'm more
I guess this settles it - not all SEIs are cuddly.oriented, like the Si-SEI. Ne-ILEs I know aren't big physical contact people either. So the object subtypes become the huggy bear, and the field subtypes become the snuggle paws.
lol.. huggy bear or snuggle paws - I'm not sure which is worse
"Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."
anyone who hates hugs shouldn't even be alpha as far as i am concerned.
D-SEI
This is me and my dual being scientific together
Not hate. But some people don't get love from it, because many ILEs love language is words of affirmation, and this SEI I know is gifts, I think, and they don't see physical touch as anything special. Doesn't seem anti-alpha to me.
Affirmative
The end is nigh
it is the most anti-alpha thing alive. all alphas must form a massive heap of bodies in order to be satisfied.
D-SEI
This is me and my dual being scientific together
Alpha NT's are neurotic about Si which means can mean a lot of things.
It took me a long time to be comfortable with hugging and physical affection, but I totally couldn't live without it constantly.
I'm very selective but not considerate of relationship status, I will like totally do physical antics with someone else's girlfriend and the like.
Also it takes a lot to get past my final barriers for true intimacy, this is something I need to verbalize to people more clearly, but as always, I over-rationalize things instead of just getting down and dirty.
@kam: Everybody jump the queen!
The end is nigh
I'm not talking about external factors. When I try to give a spontaneous impression, my first instinct isn't to troubleshoot for all the ways people are going to misinterpret it. I mean, I get uncomfortable thinking that there's the possibility that they are. But I don't even know if Gulanzon's intention was correct or if he's drawing from the same point of view or criteria for his impression of SEI that I am. My impression was not agreeing with him because I agree with him that they are cuddly. Maybe we saw the same picture as representing completely different things, I don't know. I don't know what Gulanzon's parameters are. I just know mine.
It's an energy impression. Not to sound all hokey. But Ips in general IMHO have a lower energy imprint overall. This is not extremely contradictory with a general view of the Socionics temperaments. It has to do with energy. How you look can reflect your...temperament. Disposition. Otherwise why talk about VI at all? I'm not talking about static physical features. Ok? I'm not talking about anime characters. I'm not correlating extremely generalized traits with no definable meaning to 1/16th of the general population. You are throwing my context out the window. Bee in my view looks as if she has a low energy disposition in relation to her environment. Not saying that she can't do impactful things, or be energetic, or all that stuff. Just that, in comparison to other people, she looks like an Ip. And then if you want to go into subcategories, ISFp, etc. Socionics IS comparison, because it is differentiation, and without that we have no types, so I'm not very convinced at this whole 6 billion people thing, even though I used to argue it, because you have to take it in the proper context, please. I'm not trying to pigeonhole her behavior, or predict how she's going to act. That would be stupid. She knows herself better than anyone. I'm trying to convey a subjective impression, which I have a better claim to offer than any of that stuff, which is how she looks, often in relation to other people, in pictures.
Don't isolate the word "cuddly" and then apply what I'm saying incorrectly. I'm not saying all cuddly people are SEIs, I'm not saying all SEIs are cuddly, I don't even think I really said Bee was cuddly. Don't isolate the words before trying to understand what I mean. They dance around trying to describe a holistic impression of her. It's not the fact that some anime character is sleeping on someone's shoulder. Or the fact that they're sleeping in the first place. It is simply a picture of a moment that is a very similar energy to what I see in Bee and how I think of her as a person.
I'm not talking about static physical features. You can have a 6 foot tall man with the bearing of a child. That's the energy. You can have a 5 foot woman with the bearing of a drill sargent. In fact I can think of one right now from my old music class. She was probably some Ej. That's the disposition. Not the height. I know that static physical features can bias and perhaps obfuscate impressions. I'm quite short, maybe shorter than Bee. But I don't perceive that I have the same energy disposition she possesses. I'm not talking about what people THINK of her based on her physical features. Or their relationship perspective to her. I'm not sure if I'm misinterpreting you there.
Jem, I haven't seen you in pictures with many other people, and in my mind the distinction becomes immediately more clear with contrast. Your energy reminds me a lot of Bionicgoat though and I think you are the Si SEI subtype. And intensity isn't the same as what I'm trying to describe here, so please don't misinterpret lol. I think you have intensity but not necessarily high energy, from my limited impression. I still think there is something to this with Ips, and SEIs in particular. I think Kam looks like this from what I have seen of him. I think how he talks and how he carries himself reflects this.
Excuse the subjective nature of the following ramblings.. but my energy level feels more physical than Bionicgoat's. And way less emotional than Kam's. Me and Kam in a room together would be like hyperness met with "erm ok, but that didn't make sense". Not that I don't think Kam's a fine fellow, but I just feel a lot more reserved on the inside than him. Kam is all sincere emotion and "what you see is what you get". And I sincerely respect that. But I think more before I say things. :-/ I like clever wit, smart writing, good grammar. :-p I'm more critical, more sarcastic, more down-to-earth, more self-conscious. I feel like if he's a caregiver, I'm an aggressor. That if he's a teddybear, I'm a tortoise. :-p That's all there is to it. I feel way less fragile in general than Kam and Bee. I appreciate being hit in the face with the truth. I don't relate whatsoever to the idea of a person's type being a touchy or taboo subject. Aren't we all seeking the truth? And if not, why not? I dislike some types of confrontations - emotionally-charged ones, irrational ones.. but I gain energy from a lot of them. Arguing can be fun! Prying and prodding and pushing each other over the edge can be fun! That's when things get real and people get close. I wish people weren't so fragile in general.
Are those SEI attitudes? I fear not. :-p And I feel really stupid for touting them as such in the past.
And it's not that I don't like hugs. lol But the whole woooo group-hug, touchy-feely stuff really turns me off to be honest. Sure, I hug my friends :-p.. but the type of physical affection that means anything to me is more emotionally-charged than the everyday cuddlefest.
"Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."
Rubicon, I think we agree more than you think. Simply put, it is the emotional intensity of the cuddle-fest that makes it so valuable.
D-SEI
This is me and my dual being scientific together
interesting thought dolphin. I wasn't sure what you meant before, and now I do!
I can relate to this a lot btw, but I don't think these are necessarily ESI attitudes. I can be a harsh caregiver, but still a caregiver, I sense when I'm pushing people too hard. Above all, I'm flexible and I think I can give people what they need. Sometimes it's a kick to the ass, but I do it carefully and ultimately it's to make them happy in the long run.
The saddest ESFj
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gah
"Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."
Hmm ok.. I'll keep my mind open then!
"Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."
I kind of...think they take that to extremes..the whole cuddlefest thing. I kind of just tune out what they're saying anymore about that sort of thing because I can't tell what they're communicating, whether it's emotional nuances or newfound behavioral insight or neurotic self analysis or a mixture of both..I just happened to stop because I saw the picture lol. I dunno what they're doing, playing it up so much. What has to do with type? I mean I remember you and Kam and Mime and I being all crazy over the wikisocion ISFp section. But at what point is it actually functional preferences and at what point is it just bored neurotic intellectuals playing around with their self perception on the internet? Like have you gone through a self revelation or are you just extrapolating on a list of qualities ISFj are supposed to have? These are the questions that I periodically go through. But idk. I always think of you as Bionic's identical and jrxtes dual, but ISFj isn't unreasonable, but yet, irrationality seemed a good bet for you...so I dunno what it all means. I still have a hard time seeing the traits that you're mentioning having a huge bearing on what I was talking about though. It's about how energy looks and how it's compared, not personal traits. I mean I definately see you as a tortoise. Like as holistic subjective impressions go, it's quite good. It's just I'm not sure how much of that can be attributed to SEI and how much it's just you and where it overlaps, you know?
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Yeah, who knows? lol Well what's your answer to the bored intellectuals/self-revelation question? Perhaps we can use the whole "haziness in regards to self-perception thing" as proof of Fe-creative by itself. :-p
"Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."
unbelievable. You are a failure as a human being and the idea that I read anything you put down here speaks volumes for duality.
The saddest ESFj
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Well...at a core level I'm don't really feel ambivalent about people or my opinions..I just water them down with ambivalence so other people won't get offended or misinterpret. But I felt a sense of friendship and happiness when I made up stuff with you guys. Like we had a purpose. But I don't really agree with any of that stuff, even in jest, even in exaggeration, not in relation to myself. I mean all that sarcastic POLR stuff or something. I do think remembering context and upbringing is important in typing people though. And evaluating those sort of things is something any intelligent person should do.
You're right. IJs are total non-conformists and rule breakers, with free, separate and questioning minds, and don't accept most answers, but aren't usually closed minded. And they're contrasting to etiquette, but not in a dynamic flowing sense, like the water that scrapes the river bed, but in a random, jolty, static sense. Stubborn but not typically closed minded, though can be, for ex Fis, not out of stupidity, but out of security and free-will when someone threatens their peace with "ignoring function" reasons, they can attach to closed-minded beliefs to suite their quest. There can usually be reason to act or not act, but not always reason for things that just are, and need to be accepted. Plenty of open-mindedness that needs a chance to be expressed, like from an Ne point of view. Like the main character from Memento, even though he had a memory problem. Have you seen that movie? He seemed like an ESI, maybe LSI.
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