Fi, Fe, faces, eyes

[Rubicon]

Fi-valuers showing more emotion in their eyes than Fe-valuers - does this fit with people's observations? Fe types drawing attention away from the eyes when they're speaking - to their facial expressions etc - and Fi people using them to communicate...

[Beautiful sky]

Fi-valuers showing more emotion in their eyes than Fe-valuers - does this fit with people's observations? Fe types drawing attention away from the eyes when they're speaking - to their facial expressions etc - and Fi people using them to communicate...

I don't believe that the above is correct.

[Rubicon]

I don't believe that the above is correct.

Any other observations to do with eyes then?

[Beautiful sky]

Any other observations to do with eyes then?

the only ways to tell type really is to look at the pictures and patterns of the people in each list and read a little bio or watch their interviews for example look at the ESTj look alikes in this...

http://www.elle.com/var/ezflow_site/...Zeta-Jones.jpg

Because of the SF geans they look alike on face forward pictues; ESFp, ISFp ESFj, ISFj.

You will have a greater shot of knowing type if you VI for J/P first.

[Suz]

I have to say i kind of am noticing the same thing as you did Rubicon. Some of my acquaintances who i'm certain are Fi valuing types do, ime, have more expressive eyes (i.e. you can tell their emotions in their eyes) as opposed to my apparently MANY alpha friends, whose eyes aren't AS expressive (when I gaze into them, they feel emptier to me but yes they are more outgoing with their emotions). It's not a sure trend yet, as I haven't really thought about it in your terms until now. Will try to pay more attention now.

[Rubicon]

the only ways to tell type really is to look at the pictures and patterns of the people in each list and read a little bio or watch their interviews for example look at the ESTj look alikes in this...

http://www.elle.com/var/ezflow_site/...Zeta-Jones.jpg

Some say that Zeta-Jones is LSI though. :-p Funny.. they look very similar to a friend of mine whose type has got to be LSI or LSE - I can't decide which.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Rubicon]

I didn't noticed this. So is like Fe types draw attention intentionally or simply they're more expressive so that the observer is distracted by that? I think I agree with this, and btw, that image of those mysterious Arabian women with covered face feels very Fi-ish and I think it offers a great advantage to Fi valuing types.
Actually, as much as I studied, women equally as men enforce that outfit - against Fe "shows", so it makes sense.

Anyway, I don't want to derail the subject, I'd like to hear more details of your observation.

Oh I haven't thought too much about it. I was just thinking of a few IEEs that I'd mistyped as ESE.. and noticed that the difference between the way they smiled seemed mostly to do with their eyes - the IEEs seeming to have a coquettish look to them compared to the ESEs. :-P Like even angling their head down in photos so that their eyes are the focal point. These photos could be an example of Fi vs Fe:



I agree with WorkaholicsA in that Fe eyes can kinda look empty in comparison. My eyes FEEL empty in comparison! Like I'd really have to concentrate or be completely vulnerable to summon up a similar look. haha But yeah, I just noticed it in IEEs in particular, but I think it could be the same with other Fi types - like ESIs - the way they can reduce a person to ashes with one piercing look. :-p And as far as myself goes, I know that when I use my eyes to communicate emotion, it's mostly to do with the muscles around the eyes.. like squinting them or opening them wide or raising my eyebrows or something - in a cartoon character kinda way you know? :-P So a person has to look at my face as a whole to get what emotion I'm trying to portray - it's more about lines and shapes and structure.. if you know what I mean. In a way, all that movement distracts people from seeing what's really there. To get cheesy, my theory is that Fi people seem more comfortable with the concept of their eyes being a window to their soul.

[717495]

Oh I haven't thought too much about it. I was just thinking of a few IEEs that I'd mistyped as ESE.. and noticed that the difference between the way they smiled seemed mostly to do with their eyes - the IEEs seeming to have a coquettish look to them compared to the ESEs. :-P Like even angling their head down in photos so that their eyes are the focal point. These photos could be an example of Fi vs Fe:

Clarie Danes' expressions look extremely similar to mine in some instances, which almost makes me think she could be an alpha NT and upon finding out more about her, from memory. I would accept this truth. Since IEE is close to ILE, I could also see that then. But I'm speaking entirely from a VI perspective, one lacking. I'd have to actually turn the page and look up some things, which is too professional of me.

Edit: her eyes look Ti-ish, seriously.

[Rubicon]

Clarie Danes' expressions look extremely similar to mine in some instances, which almost makes me think she could be an alpha NT and upon finding out more about her, from memory. I would accept this truth. Since IEE is close to ILE, I could also see that then. But I'm speaking entirely from a VI perspective, one lacking. I'd have to actually turn the page and look up some things, which is too professional of me.

Edit: her eyes look Ti-ish, seriously.

Hmm And I was thinking when I was looking through her photos that her eyes didn't look as flirtatious as I'd remembered. lol So I picked the best out of a bad lot. Poor scholarship ftw.

[krieger]

It goes against what you understood from what I said. You blew it, you blew it, don't try to sew it

It does go against everything you've been doing in this thread. Your response to my statement is a complete non-sequitur.

I was talking all the time about the quadra values, not types. Even if an Delta would be a far-rightist, at home the same leftist he/she would be, trust me.

This makes it impossible for anything you say to ever be tested against reality. You'll just play the "no real scottsman" card every time anyone finds a case in which you predict wrong. You can't even test your own statements. This should give us every reason to believe you've fallen for the subjective validation trap. subjective validation - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com

[xerx]

Fi-valuers showing more emotion in their eyes than Fe-valuers - does this fit with people's observations? Fe types drawing attention away from the eyes when they're speaking - to their facial expressions etc - and Fi people using them to communicate...

Here is something interesting. I don't know how valid the study is, but it seems plausible enough. Japanese people and Americans differ in how they view faces.

Japanese etiquette is much stricter about not expressing visible emotions, so they tend to express emotions with their eyes. Even their emoticons portray the eyes at the expense of other facial features:

^_^
>.<
;_;
o_O
^_-
(. )(. )

etc.

Americans look more at the mouth when expressing emotions or reading emoticons: , which is something most Japanese would find strange.

Interestingly enough, the article goes on to state that the Japanese believe in conformity, humbleness and subdued emotions as something that promotes better relationships. I'd classify that sort of reasoning as Fi-based, and Modern Japan itself is probably Delta. So the OP may very well be correct.

[xixi]

There are also aspects of Gamma in Modern Japan - the drive towards forward progress, technological development, 'efficiency', a highly competitive workforce. And this also fits in with Fi-valuing.

What i've heard about Fi/Fe eyes...

Fi - tendency towards wide doe-eyes
Fe - more oblique/almond shaped, 'smiley' eyes

[munenori2]

There are also aspects of Gamma in Modern Japan - the drive towards forward progress, technological development, 'efficiency', a highly competitive workforce. And this also fits in with Fi-valuing.

Depending on what we mean by Modern Japan, I would slightly disagree with you. The Warring States period seemed more like a beta world which as time passed into the Meiji restoration, which was more gamma. Then during hirohito's reign it was pretty much a beta revival and post WWII has pretty much been overwhelmingly delta, with occasional alpha and gamma undercurrents and of course beta romanticism making an appearance in different ways, like in cinema, and mostly portrayed in a tragic, something-has-been-lost sort of way.

[silverchris9]

Depending on what we mean by Modern Japan, I would slightly disagree with you. The Warring States period seemed more like a beta world which as time passed into the Meiji restoration, which was more gamma. Then during hirohito's reign it was pretty much a beta revival and post WWII has pretty much been overwhelmingly delta, with occasional alpha and gamma undercurrents and of course beta romanticism making an appearance in different ways, like in cinema, and mostly portrayed in a tragic, something-has-been-lost sort of way.

I honesty think most of the world fluctuated somewhat like that, with a huge beta upsurge around the time of WWII and then a huge anti-beta reaction later on. Apparently US presidents have tended to be beta and gamma lately, but generally I find that the ideological climate is less beta after WWII, which featured a huge upsurge of crazy beta leaders, and even if America is still fairly beta-heavy, I find that most European states are more delta-ish these days.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Creepy-male]

Here is something interesting. I don't know how valid the study is, but it seems plausible enough. Japanese people and Americans differ in how they view faces.

Japanese etiquette is much stricter about not expressing visible emotions, so they tend to express emotions with their eyes. Even their emoticons portray the eyes at the expense of other facial features:

^_^
>.<
;_;
o_O
^_-
(. )(. )

etc.

Americans look more at the mouth when expressing emotions or reading emoticons: , which is something most Japanese would find strange.

Interestingly enough, the article goes on to state that the Japanese believe in conformity, humbleness and subdued emotions as something that promotes better relationships. I'd classify that sort of reasoning as Fi-based, and Modern Japan itself is probably Delta. So the OP may very well be correct.

I express emotions with my pelvic area, sort of like a dog does with its tail, except instead of wagging, its thrusting or rolling.... etc......

people find it really strange.....

[marooned]

I express emotions with my pelvic area, sort of like a dog does with its tail, except instead of wagging, its thrusting or rolling.... etc......

people find it really strange.....

so that's what's wrong with LXIs--they're so busy expressing their feelings below the waist that nobody notices and those who do think they have some kind of muscle spasm issue. Meanwhile, they are totally straight-faced. Well, thank god your dual will help you learn to express emotion above the waist. (another victory for Socionics!)

[Rubicon]

I love that there's a political debate in my thread..

[Rubicon]

Here is something interesting. I don't know how valid the study is, but it seems plausible enough. Japanese people and Americans differ in how they view faces.

Japanese etiquette is much stricter about not expressing visible emotions, so they tend to express emotions with their eyes. Even their emoticons portray the eyes at the expense of other facial features:

^_^
>.<
;_;
o_O
^_-
(. )(. )

etc.

Americans look more at the mouth when expressing emotions or reading emoticons: , which is something most Japanese would find strange.

Interestingly enough, the article goes on to state that the Japanese believe in conformity, humbleness and subdued emotions as something that promotes better relationships. I'd classify that sort of reasoning as Fi-based, and Modern Japan itself is probably Delta. So the OP may very well be correct.

Thanks .. I find that stuff really interesting!

[DirectorAbbie]

Fi-valuers showing more emotion in their eyes than Fe-valuers - does this fit with people's observations? Fe types drawing attention away from the eyes when they're speaking - to their facial expressions etc - and Fi people using them to communicate...

I agree with this.