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Thread: Fi Hidden Agenda of SLIs-ISTps

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    Default Fi Hidden Agenda of SLIs-ISTps

    SLI's tell me how Fi-HA or weak Fi manifests in you. Examples! And why you do what you do. . .So mysterious and confusing. . .
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    Not telling people how I feel about them, even people closest to me. I assume they know, but some types of people need affirmation.

    Appearing as if I don't care about anything.

    Wanting to love and be open with others, but feeling an overpowering need to protect myself.

    It manifests as having my deepest core desire to love everyone unconditionally, knowing that a condition of being human is that no one is perfect but everyone deserves to be loved.

    The problem is that being so reserved and logical, I often don't know the best or appropriate way to express that feeling to people. If I express my feelings with words, it's usually either too little or too much, and people write me off as being insincere or reject me completely.

    But I'm not that great with words, especially on the spot, and my ultimate fear is that if I share my true feelings towards people I make myself vulnerable. Yet the older I get, I'm becoming less concerned with what's "appropriate", and I also begin to realize that another condition of being human is vulnerability.

    My most effective way of expressing feelings are by actions and my dedication to those closest to me.

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    without the nose Cyrano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky View Post
    It manifests as having my deepest core desire to love everyone unconditionally, knowing that a condition of being human is that no one is perfect but everyone deserves to be loved.

    The problem is that being so reserved and logical, I often don't know the best or appropriate way to express that feeling to people. If I express my feelings with words, it's usually either too little or too much, and people write me off as being insincere.

    But I'm not that great with words, especially on the spot, and my ultimate fear is that if I share my true feelings towards people I make myself vulnerable. Yet the older I get, the less I'm concerned with what's "appropriate", and I also begin to realize that another condition of being human is vulnerability.

    My most effective way of expressing feelings are by actions and my dedication to those closest to me.
    Well put.
    ISTp
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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky View Post
    Not telling people how I feel about them, even people closest to me. I assume they know, but some types of people need affirmation.

    Appearing as if I don't care about anything.

    Wanting to love and be open with others, but feeling an overpowering need to protect myself.

    It manifests as having my deepest core desire to love everyone unconditionally, knowing that a condition of being human is that no one is perfect but everyone deserves to be loved.

    The problem is that being so reserved and logical, I often don't know the best or appropriate way to express that feeling to people. If I express my feelings with words, it's usually either too little or too much, and people write me off as being insincere or reject me completely.

    But I'm not that great with words, especially on the spot, and my ultimate fear is that if I share my true feelings towards people I make myself vulnerable. Yet the older I get, I'm becoming less concerned with what's "appropriate", and I also begin to realize that another condition of being human is vulnerability.

    My most effective way of expressing feelings are by actions and my dedication to those closest to me.
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    quick question. that could also be Fe-DS, am I right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by matilda View Post
    quick question. that could also be Fe-DS, am I right?
    That brings up an interesting issue--

    would the dual seeking function be more of an oblivious need and the HA be more of a need and want?

    I dont know the answer to this, would anyone care to comment?
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    I went through a few fi hidden agenda threads and theres a sufficient lack of concrete examples. instead of just agreeing,(cyrano) putting individual interpretations of your ha, how it exists in your mind and manifests in your behavior would be great. enfps here generally seem to be lost when it comes to you guys and the lack of things like this is part of the reason whyy.

    they needeth you
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

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    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Perhaps I will discuss this some other time. ***how mysterious***

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    Now I'm kind of lost.

    Isn't dual-seeking the 5th function, which would be Ne for an SLI?

    I certainly don't seek out Fe. I'm too independent to want someone telling me what's emotionally appropriate.

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    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky View Post
    Now I'm kind of lost.

    Isn't dual-seeking the 5th function, which would be Ne for an SLI?

    I certainly don't seek out Fe. I'm too independent to want someone telling me what's emotionally appropriate.
    In a way it doesn't matter. The whole of the type is actually greater than the sum of it's parts.

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    Well that was certainly insightful.

    But in a way it does matter, as I was addressing the question in posts 5 and 6.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky View Post
    Not telling people how I feel about them, even people closest to me. I assume they know, but some types of people need affirmation.

    Appearing as if I don't care about anything.

    Wanting to love and be open with others, but feeling an overpowering need to protect myself.

    It manifests as having my deepest core desire to love everyone unconditionally, knowing that a condition of being human is that no one is perfect but everyone deserves to be loved.

    The problem is that being so reserved and logical, I often don't know the best or appropriate way to express that feeling to people. If I express my feelings with words, it's usually either too little or too much, and people write me off as being insincere or reject me completely.

    But I'm not that great with words, especially on the spot, and my ultimate fear is that if I share my true feelings towards people I make myself vulnerable. Yet the older I get, I'm becoming less concerned with what's "appropriate", and I also begin to realize that another condition of being human is vulnerability.

    My most effective way of expressing feelings are by actions and my dedication to those closest to me.
    I was just wondering if these things overlapped with Fe-DS/Fe-HA in XLEs and LXIs. Not related to the OP sorry

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    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post

    I also feel a sense of ethics is important but have a hard time really living by my principles or even figuring out what my principles are. I am prone towards adopting other principles I can agree with without really finding my own...which is problematic in many ways.
    This has always been an issue for me.

    I'm very impressionable with it comes to ethical principles. If I can reason it, I can believe in it.

    Tomorrow, I can find new information and have a reason to no longer believe in it, and throw it away like that.

    I certainly don't derive a sense of identity from Fi - I can't because there's no consistency.

    But I certainly have an admiration for those who stick to their guns.

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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
    I went through a few fi hidden agenda threads and theres a sufficient lack of concrete examples. instead of just agreeing,(cyrano) putting individual interpretations of your ha, how it exists in your mind and manifests in your behavior would be great. enfps here generally seem to be lost when it comes to you guys and the lack of things like this is part of the reason whyy.

    they needeth you
    I second this! Thank you pirate, you're not so bad after all. (well you're the unsung genius actually! )
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Perhaps I will discuss this some other time. ***how mysterious***
    Can't keep all your secrets to yourself cyclops!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    In a way it doesn't matter. The whole of the type is actually greater than the sum of it's parts.
    all right, control yourself and your huge head
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    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    With duals or people I care about, generally (depending on the person and their type):

    When I glare at them and call them stupid, it means I am concerned for their well being and wish they would do the same. It can also be a playful form of affection. This of course depends on the person and on our relationship. Some people I treat with the utmost respect and courtesy all the time, but usually the one' I can banter with are the ones I have the closest bond with and feel the most affection for. Maybe this has to do with Gulenko's ILI-Ni description of such tormenting or toying with their object of affection (platonic or otherwise, I think).

    How it manifests is tough to describe. I know in the case of Fi bonds, I think about the other person a lot, worry about them, I tend to keep my emotions to myself unless they are being stupid. Hmm...I mentioned stuff about being playful in a sort of rough and vulgar way, but not too much so.

    It manifests in a lot of different ways and in a lot of different areas so it's hard to pin point. But things or people you care about are such that you retain the most information about. Events, conversations, and such kind of remain embedded in my memory and I am prone towards turning it all over in my mind for a long time. At the same time, I work my actions around whatever it is that has become important to me personally. But I guess I operate like a ninja at the same time...subtle, stealthy, but keenly aware of my goal.

    I also feel a sense of ethics is important but have a hard time really living by my principles or even figuring out what my principles are. I am prone towards adopting other principles I can agree with without really finding my own...which is problematic in many ways.

    Things that are really important to me in an Fi sense are also things that I feel I always retain in some way. Like I don't forget a good deed, kind word, or an important person or an important memory. It's always in my memory and I often review these things periodically. I also have a hard time letting go of negative impressions as well, but the positive ones are the ones that have an even stronger hold on me.

    A lot of the times, things I do for myself are for other people, too. Or are influenced by that.
    Re: the bolded, I do the SAME thing!!! So it must be an Fi-valuing thing not just an Fi-HA thing. OR i'm SLI
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    Holy emoticons batman

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    Holy emoticons batman
    you SLIs are not very forthcoming are you :frown:

    Will a hug help?
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    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    all right, control yourself and your huge head
    hahahahahahahaha

    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon
    Can't keep all your secrets to yourself cyclops!
    Where's the fun if you get us all figured out? ;-)

    KO, i'll have a think about posting something. *now tries to become artful dodger*

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    Default SLIs' Fi hidden agenda

    I did a search and found some old threads on this, but I wanted some updated opinions and examples, so... what do you know about Fi hidden agenda in SLIs?

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    Killer of DJA's Fun fen's Avatar
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    I can't say, but I am interested as well.
    And I would hide my face in you and you would hide your face in me, and nobody would ever see us any more.


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    Most recent example would be me talking to someone I trust about what I'm going through emotionally.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    It means a lot to me when someone trusts me enough to confide in me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    It means a lot to me when someone trusts me enough to confide in me.
    Yup. And I value those relationships highly.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    Most recent example would be me talking to someone I trust about what I'm going through emotionally.
    I find that I usually get this trust very easily in real life. So much so that SLI are willing to sit down with me and pour their heart out. Fi activation.

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    In xLIs Fe-PoLR seems to manifest as inability to perceive positive affect in a dynamic way and as absence of its transmission on their part.

    I've recently translated this male SLI profile by Beskova which contained several mentions of what could possibly be expressions of Fe-PoLR e.g. the part of the profile where it mentions how they can feel attracted to someone from a distance, but never show it for months and even years, which in practice I've found to be true among male xLIs (usually among Si/Fi-subs). The more strongly they ignore Fe - they more inclined they are towards passive contemplation, and, consequently, towards idealization of the person in their mind instead of assessing and influencing the actual course of events.

    "Men of this type are observant, possess an ironic mind and an unobtrusive, refined sense of humor, although they are not willing to show this for just anyone. GABIN overall is not very demonstrative and prefers a sufficiently secluded, calm life far away from people, the noise, the fuss, and all the possible calamities.

    GABIN exists as if outside of current culture. He is unusually critical of everything, retains his own point of view, and is difficult to influence by advertisements or other manifestations of popular culture. Clubbing, senseless noisy gathering with many unknown people where no one can hear anyone else, do not draw youths of this type.

    Another matter is a social gathering with familiar people, where he feels himself valued and loved, a small corporate party for example. Here GABIN can even take initiative and proceed to entertain guests, or, at least, he will try to support the general atmosphere of celebration.

    Not every girl is able to entice distrustful GABIN. First, he does not believe that he can be attractive to someone. Second, rarely everyone succeeds in awakening any enthusiasm or interest in him - indeed GABIN, as a rule, does not hurry anywhere. Behind his courageous, solid appearance hides impossible shyness and indecisiveness. His understanding of relationships is poor, thus he does not see when he should show initiative and when it's unnecessary. So that everything is simple and not as terrifying, he may prefer to not take any initiative at all. Instead, he chooses to fill himself with mysteriousness to excite curiosity in others by his absence.

    Relations with GABIN usually happen accidentally - he himself does not understand where they came from and how they originated. He is capable of falling in love from a distance, only by eyes, observing the person who randomly captured his heart for a long time. In this case, being a contemplator by his nature, he can spend months and even years in this state and not take any action.
    ...
    GABIN is reserved (because he is easily wounded), and does not like to put his feelings on display for strangers. Fact is that he is not so confident in himself, as it may seem. Learn to give praise and support to your partner, then he will more easily manage his life, and will feel somewhat better about himself.
    ...
    However, besides the business aspects, human relations at work are exceptionally important for GABIN. He monitors them carefully. It is necessary for him that he is loved, valued, and praised. As a result of his constant (but almost imperceptible) efforts in this direction, GABIN usually occupies the role of everyone's favorite in a group."
    Other logical types besides SLIs also have a difficulty assessing where they stand with respect to others, however, static logical types, such as LSIs or SLE, try to clarify things up in a more direct and active manner, by 'shaking things up'. Whereas behavior of SLIs in such situations is very undemonstrative, unobtrusive, 'mute' even. They try to 'slip out' of situations and relationships that feel disconcerting to them, wanting to protect their inner space from negative impressions. This is where IEE's ability to create a safe emotional environment for them comes into play.

    For comparison, here is a LSI profile that mentions how in cases of uncertainty LSI feels the need to stir things and and to "break though the boundaries".

    ... It is more difficult to understand what it meant by "the land that goes from under my feet." First, the land never actually leaves. The LSI needs to stir it up the levels dangerous to life in the physical or social sense, the point where it "begins to leave". Efforts of un-dualized LSI are directly exactly at this. Why one might ask? To him it just feels that somewhere close to him there is something is happening, but to see it and be involved in it which will turn his life from dull into full, he needs to break through the boundaries. But how this can be done nobody tells him. So thus he goes breaking in everywhere. He will follow to any adventure, take on any danger, to feel that all this have been accomplished by him.

    Among other things, he possesses a kind of unconscious attraction to annoy other people by his behavior (some like to make chained dogs bark). Why? In my opinion, he is in unconscious hope to find emotional response from anybody who is more or less equal to the force of his dual, which gives him the required background.

    edit: another example of SLI's Fe-PoLR + positivism
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...y-of-Functions
    Misunderstandings occurs when a person, for example, sits and tearfully recounts a story of how he was supposedly offended. The whole situation is such that help is not required, there is nothing there to help with. But for some reason he is still telling it! And often I find myself quietly falling into stupor, frantically trying to figure out what kind of response is required of me. It is clear that no thoughts come to my mind, except: "Huh, so what do I do, what do you want?" All of this is reflected on my face with corresponding expression, and the person ... the person starts feeling upset or even angry not seeing any adequate response from me to his story. (One-dimensional Fe : SLI "Gabin")
    Last edited by silke; 10-25-2013 at 11:11 AM.

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    ■■■■■■ Radio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    Most recent example would be me talking to someone I trust about what I'm going through emotionally.
    like everyone else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    GABIN exists as if outside of current culture. He is unusually critical of everything, retains his own point of view, and is difficult to influence by advertisements or other manifestations of popular culture. Clubbing, senseless noisy gathering with many unknown people where no one can hear anyone else, do not draw youths of this type.
    Clubbing? Funny... Places like that go beyond dislike for me. I can barely operate. I had this friend who was dragging me out a few years back.. like he saw me as his "wingman", but I was the worst person to be with. Not once did I ever have to initiate much either. Some women would just grind their asses in my face, handing a "social life" on a plate and... I'm just like "Uhhh... OK". I don't know how to enjoy myself or get in a big party mode like other people.

    The thing I dislike even more is if there's someone I think I connect with, and then I lose them to the "crowd", and lose one on one time. I find myself resenting them for it, but it's not jealousy exactly.. More like watching someone cross a chasm I can't get across. They're expecting me to emotionally participate in everything like them, but I never can, and turn around.

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    Yeah I dislike "clubbing" with a severe passion. The only way I can relax in those situations is to be on something. I really don't get what's so fun about dancing with drunk people whom you'll most likely never see again, who are too drunk to have meaningful conversations with in a place you cant even hear yourself think. I think raves or something where everyone is on drugz might be good for mental stimulation but in general, its so damn awkward for me. So often I get invited to clubs and reluctantly go so these ppl don't think I'm completely antisocial but to me, it's about as uncomfortable as humanly possible. My friends go and freak out and dance and talk to strangers and I'm the awkward person in the corner trying to get drunk enough to relax. No thanks ugh. Oh, this really doesn't have anythig to do with the topic at hand. Um I'd contribute to that but everyone's opinion of what Fi is seems to be drastically different across the board so what's the point

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    I enjoy people who are upfront with me emotionally, and judge the character of a person by a rigid moral discipline. What's further, I would very much enjoy a really deep relationship with someone who can dissolve my inhibitions- to "love deeply" if you will. But I cant really make it happen.
    "We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror.".

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobVillain View Post
    I enjoy people who are upfront with me emotionally, and judge the character of a person by a rigid moral discipline. What's further, I would very much enjoy a really deep relationship with someone who can dissolve my inhibitions- to "love deeply" if you will. But I cant really make it happen.
    Basically, yeah. I have a really, really hard time taking things deeper and would really appreciate someone who would take over in that area and not judge me or take it personally for not being very emotionally expressive.

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    being Fi base,i often get the feeling that it does not allow me to just relax and merge,forgetting about ME for a sec.It is a schizoid function and kind of a burden tbh.i really wanna help you guys ,though.so y'know...if there are any questions n shit...

    edit:i'm not Fi base anymore.yeah,like,maybe this situation stems from the fact that Fi is my creative function.So,willingly or not,I have to observe it and do things with it.
    Also,it is posts like this that hand out the quintessence of socionics to humanity.
    Last edited by kalinoche; 05-24-2012 at 09:52 PM.

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    xlis are the most sensitive types ime. thats why they go well with fi creatives wh can handle that shit with finesse and be flexible about it. they can be a challenge in relationships because that kind of emotional information is very much at the forefront for them but in a way where it can manifest weirdly and not be communicated well. it can be very endearing and it can be frustrating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    the part of the profile where it mentions how they can feel attracted to someone from a distance, but never show it for months and even years, which in practice I've found to be true among male xLIs. Usually, the more they emphasize their Fi hidden agenda (it is the inert Ni/Si xLI subtypes that put heavier focus on mobilizing function) and the more strongly they ignore Fe - the more inclined they are towards contemplation, and, subsequently, towards idealization of the person in their mind instead of attempting to assess and influence the actual events that are transpiring.

    Behind his courageous, solid appearance hides impossible shyness and indecisiveness. His understanding of relationships is poor, thus he does not see when he should show initiative and when it's unnecessary.
    Relations with GABIN usually happen accidentally - he himself does not understand where they came from and how they originated. He is capable of falling in love from a distance, only by eyes, observing the person who randomly captured his heart for a long time. In this case, being a contemplator by his nature, he can spend months and even years in this state and not take any action.
    GABIN is reserved (because he is easily wounded), and does not like to put his feelings on display for strangers. Fact is that he is not so confident in himself, as it may seem.
    Spot on!

    Wouldn't you say so, @Gilly?
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  36. #36
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Sounds about right.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Park's Avatar
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    A story from real life of male GABIN: "I was studying in medical school, and one girl seemed very attractive to me. And I walked around and looked at her, and for entire 6 years I continued liking her. And the next 2 years of residency as well. Then I finished with school. After some time I called her and asked her to marry me. She agreed. Thus we became married."
    Best SLI description ever.

    Siuntal, you should run this place.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    High Priestess glam's Avatar
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    Relations with GABIN usually happen accidentally - he himself does not understand where they came from and how they originated. He is capable of falling in love from a distance, only by eyes, observing the person who randomly captured his heart for a long time. In this case, being a contemplator by his nature, he can spend months and even years in this state and not take any action.
    huh. i believe i know an SLI male in this state - and yes, he definitely exudes "mysteriousness."

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    So fluffeh. Cuddly McFluffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    Best SLI description ever.
    I could see SLIs being the ultimate Phlegmatics.
    Johari/Nohari

    "Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."

    Fruit, the fluffy kitty.

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    It's kind of nice hearing about people as socially stilted as I am. I've always thought I was a little screwed up for some inexplicable reason. Maybe this can be fixed.

    One thing I would point out though is how aware I am of missed opportunities. By my mid-20s, I tried to compensate for it, but with equally bad results. No one ever told me, but I think it was too much. I went through my teens like one of those people who felt things from a distance, not getting enough out... and I hated myself for it. But then, I hate myself equally for trying to be open later. I picked the wrong people, and the wrong ways of doing it. Hell, I'm uncomfortable just saying this here.

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