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Thread: Prejudices Inherent to Functional Positions

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    Default Prejudices Inherent to Functional Positions

    I've perceived a pattern to beliefs about information elements depending on type. This pattern seems to go hand and hand with certain beliefs about energy elements, depending on the type of the person. The position of the element, it would seem, determines the belief.

    Here's the pattern.

    • EM dominant is what YOU can do for others. IM dominant is what people need from each other, and as such, what you MUST offer.
    • EM creative is what you don't need to do for others. IM creative is what people don't need from each other.
    • EM role is what you CAN'T do for others. IM role is what can't be achieved socially.
    • EM PoLR is what you SHOULDN'T do for others. IM PoLR is what should not be done by people for each other.
    • EM demonstrative is what you can do for yourself. IM demonstrative is what you MUST do for yourself.
    • EM ignoring is what you don't need to do for yourself. IM ignoring is what you don't need.
    • EM hidden agenda is what you cannot do for yourself. IM hidden agenda is what you cannot create by yourself.
    • EM suggestive is what you should not do for yourself. IM suggestive is what you should not create by yourself.

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    EM creative is absolutely important and people can and should do this for others...in the context of dualism especially.

    We can't shut off the voice of EM dominent; for example in my case, I try not to be subjective in relations but NO way, it doesn't happen.

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    Take ESFJ as an example.

    • ESFjs believe that acceptance is something that people must create for each other, and that they must be a part of creating it.
    • They see plenty of comfort around them, and see no particularly need to make the world more comfortable for anyone else.
    • They don't think people can help each other succeed in business.
    • They don't believe that people should make plans that involve others, nor will they take part in others' plans. They prefer -- no, they insist -- on spontaneity and "going with the flow".
    • It is a priority for them to make friends.
    • They don't believe they need to seek fair treatment for themselves.
    • They cannot achieve their dreams by their own means.
    • They avoid creating their own theories, and instead rely on theories explained to them by others.
    Last edited by tcaudilllg; 03-18-2010 at 02:22 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    EM creative is absolutely important and people can and should do this for others...in the context of dualism especially.

    We can't shut off the voice of EM dominent; for example in my case, I try not to be subjective in relations but NO way, it doesn't happen.
    Do you know what "EM" means?

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    Quote Originally Posted by VixenDogFox View Post
    Am I not ESE? Because the bolded stuff is either only partly true or not true for me...
    Err the more likely possibility is that I'm wrong.

    What about that do you disagree with?

    In my case, my ignoring is Te... I always underestimate the importance of this function, and the importance of money and business in general. For one thing, I always think that my plans for myself will come to fruition as expected and money will not be a concern "for the foreseeable future"; however things happen, usually due to mistakes by other people, which deprive me of the money I had expected to obtain. For example, I'm waiting now on a financial aid check that should've arrived last week. It turns out the office didn't file my forms after I sent them, and now I'm going to have to wait another month to get the check. (which means having to beg off my folks for rent money for the month). My fault for not being hard enough, I guess, because the financial aid office had told me a month ago that things were well in order. (...) The point is that although I didn't think having money enough for my expenses would be a problem, it has become such anyway due to unforeseen administrative quibbles. That this happened probably has something to do, all things considered, with my ignoring Te, especially in that it caught me by surprise.
    Last edited by tcaudilllg; 03-18-2010 at 03:28 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    EM creative is absolutely important and people can and should do this for others...in the context of dualism especially.

    We can't shut off the voice of EM dominent; for example in my case, I try not to be subjective in relations but NO way, it doesn't happen.
    you don't even know what EM is.
    INTp

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    hmm i think i misunderstood something, hold on
    Last edited by UDP; 03-18-2010 at 06:28 AM.

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    Huh, the more I think about it, the more I tend to agree. The world clearly need more Ni; that's why I want to be a poet, basically. In fact, I *really* think the world needs more Ni. I kinda build my life around that assumption. I don't however, like you said, really feel like the world needs any more Fe. There's plenty of emotional expression in the world. It would be good to have some more, but it's not something that anybody needs to worry themselves over. I do, again, see taking care of one's bodily sensations as a personal matter. I'm very connected to my body, actually, but that, unlike Ni stuff, is not something I ever talk about (although I do whine piteously when I'm in pain or physically uncomfortable, but that's mostly because I like talking and it distracts me from the physical discomfort), nor do I see that anyone else can *really* help me be more physically comfortable and relaxed. I relax myself, when I can. Te, I agree, should not be done by anyone for anyone. There's no need to waste time dealing with banal practicalities, for anyone.

    That being said, I think the IM stuff is somewhat wrong, because the ESE I know best is a super caretaker, like, the mom of all of our friends, enjoys making food and caring for people, giving people blankets if they fall asleep while studying, etc. I think what you said is true, but somehow true at a deeper level? Because I totally give off Fe all the time, but in an absolute sense, do I think the world needs more Fe or Ni? Ni.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    Do you know what "EM" means?
    That would be... energy metabolism, correct?

    Now, you talked about EM positions, but when you started talking about ESFj specifically, you didn't qualify that as "EM ESFj." Was the "EM" supposed to be implied, or did you mean that IM could somehow be converted straightforwardly to EM?



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    Quote Originally Posted by greenantler View Post
    I think this is largely correct. On the comfort aspect, my experience with them is that they are particularly attentive if you’re feeling sick or can tell that you’re uncomfortable. Not so much of actively creating comfort where it already exists than of allaying perceived or potential discomfort.
    I think you filled it in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    That would be... energy metabolism, correct?

    Now, you talked about EM positions, but when you started talking about ESFj specifically, you didn't qualify that as "EM ESFj." Was the "EM" supposed to be implied, or did you mean that IM could somehow be converted straightforwardly to EM?
    I was trying to confirm whether or not Maritsa understood it.

    I meant IM for ESFJ. In the EM case, all of the IM characteristics would still apply; however, they would be considered instead in the context of immediate actions and happenings. ESFJ EM tries to create tolerance in their surroundings, as a means of making THEMSELVES more tolerant. It's not that ESFJ EM necessarily needs to be accepted themselves; ESFJ EM types simply want to see themselves as tolerant, respectful people. They know it is difficult to be tolerant when they are uncomfortable, therefore they try to put themselves at ease and enjoy themselves as much as possible.

    The creative EM function tries to saturate itself in its element; the dominant EM function tries to enhance its element by means of the creative function.

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    Quote Originally Posted by greenantler View Post
    I'm trying to ascertain if two persons I know have the ESFj EM. By making themselves tolerant, do you mean it in the sense that they value and wish to be more open-minded? In their quest for tolerance, would they tend to create havoc, as in attempting to evoke reactions from others in order to know how they feel about an issue, something or someone.
    They tend to talk about racism and bigotry... anything having to do with discrimination, which they can see ALL OVER the place!

    I would count, all things considered, Hitler as probably an exemplar of the selfish discordant variant of the type. ENFJ-ESFj -- intolerance as a means to negative feeling... the promulgation of intolerance to create hate.

    It's not about civil rights, however, because it's the ESFp EMs who wage the civil rights fights. ESFj EMs evaluate their own rights and sense of equality, granted, but they don't see this as too much of a problem. Rather, they find their rights get violated because of discrimination, so the best way to defend the rights which the ESFp EMs have already secured for them is to prohibit discrimination proper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by greenantler View Post
    My dad is ENFj-ESFj. And he just can't seem to STFU about these stuff. All that negativity and hate. I absolutely can't stand him.

    Here's an attempt on INTps. Correct me where I'm wrong.
    Yeah that sounds pretty accurate, all things considered. Might want to run that by Gamma and see how they respond.

    I was just thinking that the dominant INTps have a particularly socialist side, in that they are like to offer plans to distribute money without actually making any money off the plan itself. It's the role of dominant ENTJs to make the money which permits the carrying out of the plan. The creative INTPs conceive of the shortfall created if the money goes dry, and the creative ENTJs conceive of the money raising strategies to implement if the current strategy fails.
    Last edited by tcaudilllg; 03-19-2010 at 07:43 AM.

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    Does this work at all for INTj? It looks funny but some of them fit well.

    People need theories from eachother, and I must offer them.
    People don't need Idealisms achieved by others.
    Justice and Equality cannot be achieved socially.
    Networking should not be done by people for eachother.
    I must make plans for myself.
    I don't need to make money.
    I cannot achieve comfort and fulfillment of bodily needs by myself.
    I should not create acceptance by myself.

    Also is IM the first type in a dual type followed by EM?
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispy View Post
    Does this work at all for INTj? It looks funny but some of them fit well.

    People need theories from eachother, and I must offer them.
    People don't need Idealisms achieved by others.
    Justice and Equality cannot be achieved socially.
    Networking should not be done by people for eachother.
    I must make plans for myself.
    I don't need to make money.
    I cannot achieve comfort and fulfillment of bodily needs by myself.
    I should not create acceptance by myself.

    Also is IM the first type in a dual type followed by EM?
    It works for every type. A universal pattern.

    Thinking about what you said about the networking bit... I'm reflecting on that and seeing that you know, I really do need to take more responsibility for my own networking. And the idealism thing is good too.

    This must be something people can use.

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