SLIs/ISTps and predisposition to damage relationships

[UDP]

An SLI I know recently told me about how her neighbor has recently withdrawn from interaction. In the past, the SLI and her neighbor have been on fairly close terms. But suddenly, over the winter, things changed. And while there are some strange things that the other person did, I find the SLI is not exactly trying to improve things. It's a bit like she sees the situation as a green light to be more openly hostile to the person or to push the neighbor's buttons even more. What's more, I know the neighbor has been having a lot of stresses in her life (husband recently died, getting older, etc), so I can suspect a lot of reasons for things to be getting weird.

I bring this up because I saw this within myself, as well. It wasn't until after a lot of schooling from delta NFs did I really start to consider how much I was making things worse by doing things like that. I'm surely not perfect now, but I understand it a bit more.

As such, I was trying to explain to the SLI about how the sudden change probably is related to some other issues in the persons life; that some of the pettiness from the other person is probably not going to be aided by retorts that are specifically designed to cause damage.

It is strange, because I know the feeling the SLI has in regard to the said person. But I also appreciate the NFs for dealing with and hopefully helping out the STs; I wish the SLI had an IEE in her life . . .

[jewels]

yeah they can be so clueless it's frustrating. With no concept of how things will play out later, such as people cutting the SLI out of their life. I do my best to help, but it's frustrating when they just can't see something is hanging by a thread, and then take no responsibility when it ends completely.

[UDP]

I think this is a form of being a "Te zombie" of sorts, as I recall Lobo saying. It's "effectiveness" towards something that is totally detached from the interpersonal realm, so it's actually a form of self-delusion.

[Cyrano]

An SLI I know recently told me about how her neighbor has recently withdrawn from interaction. In the past, the SLI and her neighbor have been on fairly close terms. But suddenly, over the winter, things changed. And while there are some strange things that the other person did, I find the SLI is not exactly trying to improve things. It's a bit like she sees the situation as a green light to be more openly hostile to the person or to push the neighbor's buttons even more. What's more, I know the neighbor has been having a lot of stresses in her life (husband recently died, getting older, etc), so I can suspect a lot of reasons for things to be getting weird.

I bring this up because I saw this within myself, as well. It wasn't until after a lot of schooling from delta NFs did I really start to consider how much I was making things worse by doing things like that. I'm surely not perfect now, but I understand it a bit more.

As such, I was trying to explain to the SLI about how the sudden change probably is related to some other issues in the persons life; that some of the pettiness from the other person is probably not going to be aided by retorts that are specifically designed to cause damage.

It is strange, because I know the feeling the SLI has in regard to the said person. But I also appreciate the NFs for dealing with and hopefully helping out the STs; I wish the SLI had an IEE in her life . . .

I have NO idea what you mean...which is probably your point.

[UDP]

I think the more well adjusted STs, who've had a lot of influence in terms of F and esp delta NFs would have an easier time with this. Once you've had someone express to you the importance of things like that, it's easier.

Cyrano, you seem like someone who might understand people enough to not do things like that so much. (?)

[Creepy-Cyclops]

An SLI I know recently told me about how her neighbor has recently withdrawn from interaction. In the past, the SLI and her neighbor have been on fairly close terms. But suddenly, over the winter, things changed. And while there are some strange things that the other person did, I find the SLI is not exactly trying to improve things. It's a bit like she sees the situation as a green light to be more openly hostile to the person or to push the neighbor's buttons even more. What's more, I know the neighbor has been having a lot of stresses in her life (husband recently died, getting older, etc), so I can suspect a lot of reasons for things to be getting weird.

I bring this up because I saw this within myself, as well. It wasn't until after a lot of schooling from delta NFs did I really start to consider how much I was making things worse by doing things like that. I'm surely not perfect now, but I understand it a bit more.

As such, I was trying to explain to the SLI about how the sudden change probably is related to some other issues in the persons life; that some of the pettiness from the other person is probably not going to be aided by retorts that are specifically designed to cause damage.

It is strange, because I know the feeling the SLI has in regard to the said person. But I also appreciate the NFs for dealing with and hopefully helping out the STs; I wish the SLI had an IEE in her life . . .

I have done this at times too. I think at times I have done this has had something to do with feeling Fi rejected - the bonds been broken, and maybe if I press the issue it will result in them saying or showing that the static links not changed, and explain why.

It took some time for me to realise that that's dumb.

[UDP]

I have done this at times too. I think at times I have done this has had something to do with feeling Fi rejected - the bonds been broken, and maybe if I press the issue it will result in them saying or showing that the static links not changed, and explain why.

It took some time for me to realise that that's dumb.

Yeah- good point. The SLI did feel very much Fi rejected. And I've felt that way, too.

[Cyrano]

I think the more well adjusted STs, who've had a lot of influence in terms of F and esp delta NFs would have an easier time with this. Once you've had someone express to you the importance of things like that, it's easier.

Cyrano, you seem like someone who might understand people enough to not do things like that so much. (?)

I don't think SLIs would kick someone when they're down so I don't get:

"[ISTp] sees the situation as a green light to be more openly hostile to the person or to push the neighbor's buttons even more"

I would expect the SLI to be sympathetic to the neghbor's problems, at least on a superficial level. Their must be more happening here than meets the eye. Does the SLI fear that the neighbor is dependent or overly needy?

I snow blow the drive for my elderly nieghbors, but I don't want to become friends with them and don't want them to be too friendly, especially so close to home.

[DirectorAbbie]

In the past, the SLI and her neighbor have been on fairly close terms. But suddenly, over the winter, things changed. And while there are some strange things that the other person did, I find the SLI is not exactly trying to improve things. It's a bit like she sees the situation as a green light to be more openly hostile to the person or to push the neighbor's buttons even more.

She was pushing the neighbor's buttons? Sort of like revenge? When someone stops being my friend, I abandon them. I don't antagonize them.

[UDP]

Well that's the thing, they were shoveling off each other's driveways first. But I think the SLI felt like the other person burned their bridge first, did something wrong against them, so the Fi rejection took place, and the SLI basically said "screw it".

[Mattie]

This most likely has to do with the stage of life the person is in... The SiTe and TeSi I've found in my life go between a certain binary- either be completely loyal and go down with the ship, no matter how hurt they get, or totally disassociate and remove all responsibility. I'm not sure about TeSi, but I find SiTe to do things to get reactions, but in the most subtle of ways. It seems like SiTe need to see where the boundaries of the relationship is in order to be sure of what to do next.

An SiTe and I who I am close with have promised each other to be completely direct with one another, because I find both NeFi and SiTe will will beat around the bush until someone makes the first step when it comes to relationships that matter (actually, I've seen this apply to NeTi and SiFe as well, so there might be a correlation). So I guess that an SiTe will be more confused and less inclined to directly find out when a relationship is unclear. The TeSi I know tend to completely shut down and won't make progress until they can't avoid it or the other person makes an effort, but even that might take a bit.

SiTe and TeSi tend to find avoidance to be a preferable solution until they can figure things out for themselves, but with this route, they aren't aware of how the other person is affected and how a quick and thorough closure might be a better option.

[Lobo]

I think this is a form of being a "Te zombie" of sorts, as I recall Lobo saying. It's "effectiveness" towards something that is totally detached from the interpersonal realm, so it's actually a form of self-delusion.

Yes, recall what I say. Actually, it's "zombeh," like in the Cranberries song:



Anyway, I've noticed Delta STs disconnect from the interpersonal/empathetic realm when they feel hurt. There was one time where I was feeling really depressed about life (which in the span of my lifetime happens infrequently), and this LSE must have taken something I did during that time as hurtful towards him, and so became somewhat hostile towards me. It's getting so caught up in your pain, that you don't realize what's going on in the other side. Needless to say, getting kicked when you're down doesn't help matters in the least bit. It makes me sad actually that my previous bad experiences with some STs might influence my relationship with them in the future. It's so much easier to just deal with NFs, who I usually have a significant mutual understanding with, but then it isn't as fulfilling.

[Beautiful sky]

Yes, recall what I say. Actually, it's "zombeh," like in the Cranberries song:

YouTube - The Cranberries - Zombie

Anyway, I've noticed Delta STs disconnect from the interpersonal/empathetic realm when they feel hurt. There was one time where I was feeling really depressed about life (which in the span of my lifetime happens infrequently), and this LSE must have taken something I did during that time as hurtful towards him, and so became somewhat hostile towards me. It's getting so caught up in your pain, that you don't realize what's going on in the other side. Needless to say, getting kicked when you're down doesn't help matters in the least bit. It makes me sad actually that my previous bad experiences with some STs might influence my relationship with them in the future. It's so much easier to just deal with NFs, who I usually have a significant mutual understanding with, but then it isn't as fulfilling.

YOU'RE ISTP

I will spam all of your listings until you drop my initials and move to your territory.

I don't associate or accept intollerable lying and cheating.

[Mattie]

YOU'RE ISTP

I will spam all of your listings until you drop my initials and move to your territory.

I don't associate or accept intollerable lying and cheating.

Now I remember why I don't come here anymore. It's like the name changes and the same words are posted.

[silverchris9]

^yeah.

Anyway, that whole Fi-rejected thing sounds interesting. Is it particularly different from any other type breaking off a friendship? I suppose delta STs are probably particularly sensitive to it, and particularly susceptible to "not seeing things from the other's perspective." Can someone say more about the being "Fi-rejected"?

Actually, not so much the Fi thing, but the "not seeing thing from the other's perspective" is pretty much an ST thing, the difference being that Delta STs find their lives improved by information about how they're "hurting the other person" helpful and are happier when they change this behavior.

Beta STs are just annoyed (and probably secretly somewhat shamed, especially if they grew up around Fi-valuers--I've felt that way about my polr before; I know they're right, but their way of saying it makes me just want to do the wrong thing on purpose) by that kind of information, and are more helped if someone they're close to (i.e., a beta NF) does some dramatic Fe thing to indicate their personal displeasure at the beta STs action, and the beta ST will then rectify the situation, empowered to do so by the reasoning that they're "doing it for [person x], not for the other person who has probably by this point become an enemy (and enemies are to be defeated, not mollified). If you tried the beta NF approach with a delta ST, they'd probably be really irritated and feel manipulated. Complementary functions are so cool.

Also, I hate that song by the Cranberries *so* much.

[Suz]

I don't think SLIs would kick someone when they're down so I don't get:

"[ISTp] sees the situation as a green light to be more openly hostile to the person or to push the neighbor's buttons even more"

I would expect the SLI to be sympathetic to the neghbor's problems, at least on a superficial level. Their must be more happening here than meets the eye. Does the SLI fear that the neighbor is dependent or overly needy?

I snow blow the drive for my elderly nieghbors, but I don't want to become friends with them and don't want them to be too friendly, especially so close to home.

interesting, I tend to do the same thing with neighbors. . .hmm maybe i'm really SLI! The thought has crossed my mind several times now. . .

[Suz]

Now I remember why I don't come here anymore. It's like the name changes and the same words are posted.

aww look.to.the.sky, dont leave!!!! I sincerely enjoyed reading your posts and want to hear more about your experiences with SLIs! I recommend putting Maritsa on ignore. . .she harrasses everyone with nonsense. And she has obvious Te POLR and Ti HA, so she's IEI not EII. And she VI's like one. Per multiple people including Rick. She even has her type wrong. Not a credible source at all.

[Lobo]

^yeah.

Anyway, that whole Fi-rejected thing sounds interesting. Is it particularly different from any other type breaking off a friendship? I suppose delta STs are probably particularly sensitive to it, and particularly susceptible to "not seeing things from the other's perspective." Can someone say more about the being "Fi-rejected"?

Actually, not so much the Fi thing, but the "not seeing thing from the other's perspective" is pretty much an ST thing, the difference being that Delta STs find their lives improved by information about how they're "hurting the other person" helpful and are happier when they change this behavior.

Beta STs are just annoyed (and probably secretly somewhat shamed, especially if they grew up around Fi-valuers--I've felt that way about my polr before; I know they're right, but their way of saying it makes me just want to do the wrong thing on purpose) by that kind of information, and are more helped if someone they're close to (i.e., a beta NF) does some dramatic Fe thing to indicate their personal displeasure at the beta STs action, and the beta ST will then rectify the situation, empowered to do so by the reasoning that they're "doing it for [person x], not for the other person who has probably by this point become an enemy (and enemies are to be defeated, not mollified). If you tried the beta NF approach with a delta ST, they'd probably be really irritated and feel manipulated. Complementary functions are so cool.

Also, I hate that song by the Cranberries *so* much.

The thing with Fi is that it can vary a great deal from one person to the next... You develop a system to deal with people, and have your own set of expectations. I bet this varies significantly from culture to culture, and a big chunk of it is set at a young age. With delta STs, I've found that they are pretty stubborn in what they think is right or wrong at times, since they don't apply energy/might find it harder to modify it if they see that it "works" for them. (As a side note, I know how much this must make beta NFs cringe ). I think it's important for STs in general to have a solid ethical and emotional foundation from a young age to avoid hardships in interpersonal situations later on.

Anyway, the Fi-rejected feelings might be triggered by seemingly silly things, but to them it's a big deal. When you don't put too much thought into developing a system of what is "right and wrong," making it handle exceptions, I see it as inevitable to have a selfish me-me quality of morality, which is under the illusion that you are right and everyone else is wrong...* I think this is the reason for the seemingly childish displays of hurting the other person without rising above and assessing the situation more clearly. Btw, I know that the wording I'm using might make me sound arrogant, but I'm saying it from being in that place before and having a realization.

I honestly think that another important factor is in not valuing Ni... Though I can't pinpoint exactly what it is, but people who value Ni tend to think of things that might be happening which are not readily apparent. You need to fantasize a bit about "what could be" in order to stumble upon a thought that leads you to consider that you might be hurting someone. There are times that after I have an interaction with someone I think about what they might be off doing, just out of curiosity. If you don't wonder about flow of events, you will have to get external stimuli in order to think about the other person being hurt. The funny thing is that EIIs and IEEs tend to be good at it, BUT they don't directly require or expect people to be good at it, because they see it as something that is normal in human being to have. I've found that they (me) sometimes have no idea that the reason why an ST, for instance, is doing something that is hurting them is because they do not readily think about these things. It took me a long time to see this and actually convince myself that some people just do not use Ni, since it's something that I naturally use, yet do not value external displays of it... It's a very ironic thing, really.

*Before I develop my idea further, I want to say that I really disagree with the concept of function "strength," as in someone Fi leading is better at Fi than someone who isn't. It doesn't necessarily have to be the case... It just so happens that someone who values a function above others will undoubtedly have a high change of developing it into something that has a more complex nature than other types', and is able to take into account other variables and situations. Things become stronger in nature only when they are stimulated.

[UDP]

I don't think it's about strength either, per se. More just .... disposition and emphasis. I also agree that weak Ni is somewhat of a factor, too, because the STs are very focused on present mechanical interactions.

I sort of see the elements and being exposed to healthy influences using them are very important; when you grow up lacking proper exposure to certain elements, it may make you more prone to having issues about them later on in life - and it's especially so with your weak functions.

[Cyrano]

interesting, I tend to do the same thing with neighbors. . .hmm maybe i'm really SLI! The thought has crossed my mind several times now. . .

We are duals ya know.

[Park]

I can understand the passive-aggressive behavior Ryu is referring to, but something in the way he tries to interpret it [from a SLI point of view] sounds a bit off.

ps. I would elaborate, but I'm caught up in some work right now.

[Mattie]

aww look.to.the.sky, dont leave!!!! I sincerely enjoyed reading your posts and want to hear more about your experiences with SLIs! I recommend putting Maritsa on ignore. . .she harrasses everyone with nonsense. And she has obvious Te POLR and Ti HA, so she's IEI not EII. And she VI's like one. Per multiple people including Rick. She even has her type wrong. Not a credible source at all.

I'll think about it, I've been poking around Wikisocion lately and decided to peek on in here to see if much has changed. I think there's a level of understanding a person achieves here and then about 80% of what's posted seems ridiculous. I know some people enjoy batting around others who make dumb posts, but that's not my thing. I personally think that if the majority of people can apply the thought of type =/= personality, there would a lot more progressive conversation.

[UDP]

Unfortunately, I'm looking around some and don't see that much better discussion elsewhere.

I think delta was doing good about the type/personality stuff, although lately there's been more hoopla here because a return of interesting characters. You should have stopped by sooner before Maritsa arrived, that was kind of an interesting, progressive period.

Decent deliberate delta discussions. (day-um)

[Beautiful sky]

An SLI I know recently told me about how her neighbor has recently withdrawn from interaction. In the past, the SLI and her neighbor have been on fairly close terms. But suddenly, over the winter, things changed. And while there are some strange things that the other person did, I find the SLI is not exactly trying to improve things. It's a bit like she sees the situation as a green light to be more openly hostile to the person or to push the neighbor's buttons even more. What's more, I know the neighbor has been having a lot of stresses in her life (husband recently died, getting older, etc), so I can suspect a lot of reasons for things to be getting weird.

I bring this up because I saw this within myself, as well. It wasn't until after a lot of schooling from delta NFs did I really start to consider how much I was making things worse by doing things like that. I'm surely not perfect now, but I understand it a bit more.

As such, I was trying to explain to the SLI about how the sudden change probably is related to some other issues in the persons life; that some of the pettiness from the other person is probably not going to be aided by retorts that are specifically designed to cause damage.

It is strange, because I know the feeling the SLI has in regard to the said person. But I also appreciate the NFs for dealing with and hopefully helping out the STs; I wish the SLI had an IEE in her life . . .

Recently withdrawn from interaction may not have anything to do with the SLI; if the SLI wants to be supportive, plenty of space should be given to see what the real matter or issue is.

[Park]

My ISTp mom is like this.

You guys change your typings so fast...

[Suz]

Unfortunately, I'm looking around some and don't see that much better discussion elsewhere.

I think delta was doing good about the type/personality stuff, although lately there's been more hoopla here because a return of interesting characters. You should have stopped by sooner before Maritsa arrived, that was kind of an interesting, progressive period.

Decent deliberate delta discussions. (day-um)

I think we've had some really interesting discussions here even these days, and on the general forum too. If you guys just IGNORE Maritsa and quit engaging her, threads will not get as derailed! (I know it's tempting to retort though. . .trust me i do. . .that's why i had her on ignore for a while. Now I think i'm able to just resist responding).

[UDP]

[Mattie]

I think we've had some really interesting discussions here even these days, and on the general forum too. If you guys just IGNORE Maritsa and quit engaging her, threads will not get as derailed! (I know it's tempting to retort though. . .trust me i do. . .that's why i had her on ignore for a while. Now I think i'm able to just resist responding).

Thinking on it.

Either way, I find the topic at hand pertinent since I have an interesting developing relationship with an SiTe. There was a particular incident that comes to mind concerning what we're talking about:

To sum things up, I had been upset with the SiTe because of his lack of responsibility for our friendship, and this had been making me moody. We were out at a mutual friend's birthday party and I pretty much acted completely cold towards him and wasn't my usual gregarious self. I think it was a very obvious "Something is wrong and you need to fix it" sort of attitude. We didn't talk about it at all that night, I mostly focused on the mutual friend and was an overall grouch to everyone else. When the SiTe called me a day or so later to talk about that night, he said something along the lines of "I might be seen as the bad guy for confronting you with this, but this is a sign of affection from me" and started to tell me how he didn't like my behavior that night.

During this conversation, it was revealed to me that he had been avoiding me, or at least, choosing company of others over mine, because of whatever our problem was. From my overall experience with him, and I'm not sure if it's him specific or could be attributed others his type, he is conflict and responsibility avoidant when it comes to relationships, the moment they turn into any sort of obligation or need upkeep, he gets flighty. Once you get close to him, though, it starts turning less into a burden and more of you're an everyday part of his life and will go completely out of his way if needed.

I find that at least SiTe are overly cautious when it comes to relationships, or interpersonal decisions. A lot of times this can result in coming to a decision too late, and the person has moved on. I'm not sure how this is for TeSi, the TeSi I know question themselves, but the moment I echo their thoughts, it gets engraved into their brain (I believe). Starting to ramble, so I'll cut it here.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I'll think about it, I've been poking around Wikisocion lately and decided to peek on in here to see if much has changed. I think there's a level of understanding a person achieves here and then about 80% of what's posted seems ridiculous. I know some people enjoy batting around others who make dumb posts, but that's not my thing. I personally think that if the majority of people can apply the thought of type =/= personality, there would a lot more progressive conversation.

I've never posted here to learn anything, right from the start I could see most of it was rubbish.

I've just posted for other reasons.

[Suz]

awww!!

right back atcha, Ryu!

[Creepy-Cyclops]

awww!!

right back atcha, Ryu!

Are you on of the quiet ones? I've always had a soft spot for that type of IEE

[Suz]

Are you on of the quiet ones? I've always had a soft spot for that type of IEE

cyclops did you just notice that??? that's been in my sig since i figured out I was IEE!

And yes. . .I AM one of the quiet ones. . .unless you really get me going though.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

cyclops did you just notice that??? that's been in my sig since i figured out I was IEE!

And yes. . .I AM one of the quiet ones. . .unless you really get me going though.

It's the good part. Like a pressie to unwrap.

[UDP]

im curious, what would be to happen if neighbor call up SLI to make like friends again, would SLI resume friendship or is all lost now?

I don't know, actually. For that specific person, I don't know how they'd take it. they've made such a habit of cutting people out of their lives, I don't know if they would simply allow something to come back again. I could see such a thing happening, but, I really am not sure.

I know that in other situations, after some time away from things, the said SLI is able to maintain positive relationships with certain people, albeit on slightly lower-intensity levels of relationship.

do SLIs and LSEs cut out people from their lives this way completely often, or do they forgive and move on as friends one day?

The only persons I've ever really tried to block from my lives are people who are really, really bad people or very annoying agitating. Even then it's not totally permanent, but, it's very severe.

Another thing that I would 'push people away' would be if I was very emotionally involved with them and something happened - I just need time away, especially if I've had to scrape or surgically remove their relational influence from my life. I won't let someone's relationship get in the way of things, if they are negatively impacting me - I will "vomit them from my life", as unpleasant as it may be (as one profile said). But after that wound heals up some (after time passes), I could consider things again, if the person seems worthy of another chance.

[Creepy-male]

Another thing that I would 'push people away' would be if I was very emotionally involved with them and something happened - I just need time away, especially if I've had to scrape or surgically remove their relational influence from my life. I won't let someone's relationship get in the way of things, if they are negatively impacting me - I will "vomit them from my life", as unpleasant as it may be (as one profile said). But after that wound heals up some (after time passes), I could consider things again, if the person seems worthy of another chance.

This seems like the clever option, actually.

[UDP]

It works for me. I know that I can't approach other people when I'm emotionally messed up, and I know I need time. I know I need to remove the bullet or knife or whatever else is stuck in me and let that heal.

But going back to the SLI,
I don't think there has been much 'emotional damage' inflicted upon her, honestly. So I think if the other party tried to reconnect things now, not so much badness has happened such that things are going to need a lot of time to repair.

[Suz]

It's the good part. Like a pressie to unwrap.

be careful, cause you dont know if it's a good one or a dangerous one

[Suz]

It works for me. I know that I can't approach other people when I'm emotionally messed up, and I know I need time. I know I need to remove the bullet or knife or whatever else is stuck in me and let that heal.

I'm the SAME way. :frown:

[Mattie]

I've never posted here to learn anything, right from the start I could see most of it was rubbish.

I've just posted for other reasons.

Mysterious

[DirectorAbbie]

I'm the SAME way. :frown:

Isn't everyone?