Socionics and Family History

[silverchris9]

Hello all,

I'd like to discuss the relationship between socionics and family history. Specifically, some topics I was thinking about are:

1) What is it like to have both parents of one's opposing quadra?
2) What is it like to have both parents of an adjacent quadra?
3) What is it like to have parents who themselves are in opposing quadras?
4) What sorts of actions can parents (and children) take to ameliorate the negative effects of socionics-related differences?
5) What is it like to have a parent (or two or more) who is in one's quadra, but who sets a "bad" or "negative" or "undesirable" example for the child? How does this compare to or differ from having a parent of the opposing quadra, maybe even a superego or conflictor for a parent.
6) What is it like to have a dual for a parent? An identical?
7) What is it like to have a parent in one's quadra and a parent not in one's quadra? Is there any difference based on which position the same-sex parent is in?

Obviously, I don't want to pry into people's personal lives unnecessarily. But, I think this could be an interesting and productive discussion, a good area of thought-experimenting that could potentially produce some valuable insights about how socionics can play out in the important parts of our lives.

So, yes, thoughts on any or all of these questions would be greatly appreciated.

[munenori2]

Hello all,

I'd like to discuss the relationship between socionics and family history. Specifically, some topics I was thinking about are:

1) What is it like to have both parents of one's opposing quadra?
2) What is it like to have both parents of an adjacent quadra?
3) What is it like to have parents who themselves are in opposing quadras?
4) What sorts of actions can parents (and children) take to ameliorate the negative effects of socionics-related differences?
5) What is it like to have a parent (or two or more) who is in one's quadra, but who sets a "bad" or "negative" or "undesirable" example for the child? How does this compare to or differ from having a parent of the opposing quadra, maybe even a superego or conflictor for a parent.
6) What is it like to have a dual for a parent? An identical?
7) What is it like to have a parent in one's quadra and a parent not in one's quadra? Is there any difference based on which position the same-sex parent is in?

Obviously, I don't want to pry into people's personal lives unnecessarily. But, I think this could be an interesting and productive discussion, a good area of thought-experimenting that could potentially produce some valuable insights about how socionics can play out in the important parts of our lives.

So, yes, thoughts on any or all of these questions would be greatly appreciated.

1) Don't know
2) Not sure if I qualify since I think I've got a same (mom) + adjacent (dad) parent combo.
3) No se.
4) Probably means next to nothing since either or both parties aren't thinking socionics, but generally, just trying to understand how things look or what's important to someone else can generally help you connect better unless you're night and day about it.
5) Can't speculate.
6) Don't know.
7) I think my mom is my mirror (ESE) and my dad my (whatever SEI and SLI are: comparatives?). My mom I can frequently relate to more easily and understand even though we're sort of approaching things differently, my dad I feel like we gel on a certain level while still looking at it from different perspectives, like we're on similar but parallel wavelengths. I wrote about it once before I nuked the blog. Good roommates who can't quite speak to each other on the same level. My mom tends to help me bring out who I am more fully and stuff, my dad I feel like I can pretty much only express a part of myself and be understood.

[1981slater]

4) What sorts of actions can children take to ameliorate the negative effects of socionics-related differences?

Do not talk about your favourite function and focus on their valued functions

[silverchris9]

Do not talk about your favourite function and focus on their valued functions

Thanks that was really helpful. . (actually, the smile I had on my face was halfway between a and a with a hint of and just a teeny tiny dash of , but closer to , so won out).

[1981slater]

Thanks that was really helpful. . (actually, the smile I had on my face was halfway between a and a with a hint of and just a teeny tiny dash of , but closer to , so won out).

How old are you?

[munenori2]

Thanks that was really helpful. . (actually, the smile I had on my face was halfway between a and a with a hint of and just a teeny tiny dash of , but closer to , so won out).

I thought the same, only with less emoticons other than IEIs are complex.

[silverchris9]

How old are you?

19, if you must know. I'm very serious and logical when I have to be I think. But there was nothing to be gained from being serious and logical at the moment. As such, I felt free to play with emoticons. IEIs are quite childlike on the inside.

I won't grow up! I won't grow up! I don't wanna wear a tie, I don't wanna wear a tie...

[Suz]

19, if you must know. I'm very serious and logical when I have to be I think. But there was nothing to be gained from being serious and logical at the moment. As such, I felt free to play with emoticons. IEIs are quite childlike on the inside.

I won't grow up! I won't grow up! I don't wanna wear a tie, I don't wanna wear a tie...

No need to explain yourself, you're a young'un! Man, I feel so old here. . .But never too old to play with emoticons!!

[silverchris9]

bump. I could start a new thread to ask the same questions again, or I could just bump this one. So I did the latter.

[jughead]

4) What sorts of actions can children take to ameliorate the negative effects of socionics-related differences?
Do not talk about your favourite function and focus on their valued functions

No. stupid if socionics is somewhat true. What I hope your saying is teach your kids to do that only when they have to, to get along. Thats going to be pretty hard to teach kids functionally, theoritically whatver, and basically the rules we already have probably work best.

The better solution is to match them with function valuers and quadra members for long term learning and relationships and what happens is they will learn to grow and rely on one another and be better people.

[Crispy]

Mom's ESI (Super-Ego)
Dad's LSE (Illusionary)

Always had a better relationship with my Mom for some reason. We'd fight and argue about everything, but it wasn't too bad (at least for me ). My Dad and I have absolutely nothing in common.

I'd say conflicting relations are much much worse than super-ego.

[Aiss]

1) What is it like to have both parents of one's opposing quadra?

Mother's ESE, father LII, so conflict and quasi. These relations - probably due to closeness - play out surprisingly like described, much more so than with any other people I've met. In the case of conflict, we're both trying and not understanding each other - and time apart tends to make us much fonder of each other. Quasi I have common interests with, so there are often interesting discussion, but if we start arguing, it goes bad. Also we don't have an ounce of F between us, so we tend to lack it in longer interaction.

The sad part is that Fe valuing parents can make Fi valuing child feel their "love" is very whimsical, which may even seem as conditional to a young child, even though it isn't. This is something that became better with age in my case, and even more so in light of socionics. But I think it was part of the fall out my brother - whom I type as ESI - had with my parents, though the whole issue is far more complicated than that.

4) What sorts of actions can parents (and children) take to ameliorate the negative effects of socionics-related differences?

Children can understand their relations with parents better, which may answer some questions they ask themselves about it. Everyone can try to not irritate others, but that's what usually happens in close relations anyway. I think socionics only ever aids in understanding why it doesn't work and getting rid of a lot of negative feelings originating from the fact, not in actually making it work.

[Galen]

Growing up in an alpha family, I've always kinda felt like the odd one out. I'm quite fond of my ISFp mother, but my ESFj dad and ENTp brother have a history of annoying me, especially my brother. I can't really remember any time of pure intellectual resonance between my family and myself, I've never felt 100% comfortable talking about myself around them. However, I've always felt totally welcomed by and comfortable around my mom's side of the family, who are predominantly delta.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[April]

My mother (Fi-ENFp) is my mirror and my father (Ni-INTp) is my benefactor. As expected, my relationship with my mother is much more favorable than my relationship with my father.

Overall, I have an easy relationship with my mother, and we typically see things the same way. We can talk for hours with great ease. Some problems do exist, though. My mother has become completely enmeshed with me in the past, to which I've needed to respond by deliberately creating boundaries. Sometimes, I'll even have to start yelling, "Boundaries! Boundaries!" when she shares a bit too much with me. Whenever we have conflict, we can easily battle to the death if we so desire. Over time, I've learned to create distance rather than keep battling in order for disputes to settle. I later read this in a Mirror relationship description, and wish I had learned it earlier.

I don't speak to my father. True to benefit relations, he thought I was pretty insignificant. Before I would ever introduce my friends to him, I'd give them a little speech about how my father is truly a bizarre individual. After meeting him, they'd say something to the effect of, "I thought it was a bit silly at first, but thank you for that speech. It was fully necessary."

[717495]

I've never felt 100% comfortable talking about myself around them. However, I've always felt totally welcomed by and comfortable around my mom's side of the family, who are predominantly delta.

You sound similar to me, except my direct family is mostly Beta. I don't feel comfortable talking about myself or my ideas around them, my sister Fe-INFp and dad Ni-ENFj. My mom on the other hand, Fe-ESFj, I have a much easier time expressing myself and my ideas, they seem to be received well, but the feedback is what is bothersome--it still turns out very weird and uncomfortable in the end. Definitely some Fe annoyance going on. It's interesting with subtypes though, because I feel more accepted by her than what I accept of her. Ne accepted, Fe ignored. My brother on the other hand is an easier relation for me. I like my Ti-ENTp brother a lot because he is wacky and silly, and says whatever he wants. He is energetic and has a certain way of doing things, probably sees me as a loser who lives life wrong or inefficiently. He probably thinks that way about most people. If I were to say how I compare to most people in his eye, it might be that he sees that I have some talent worth appreciating and sees something interesting and worth-while, worth talking to, in me. I feel like I have to appreciate what he does even if its getting redundant to me and I don't really care about what he's doing, but I like him so much as a person so I keep going. It's like he wants to keep showing me things and get a positive response out of me, or open up my mind or something. I don't really like other ENTps though. Our relationship can tend to feel like activation at times, but like he is the one activating me and I'm the one feeling charged and lit up by his behavior, and he likes that. I've had a lot of quadra-related conflict with him too, through-out the years, like he just won't accept my simple wishes, and he won't be courteous. He seems to want to mold people into his thought-pattern and like for them to go along with what he wants, which seems pretty Fe in general, so I've probably just learned to go along with it since I seem to like him. I try to attempt Fe every now and then with Fe-valuers, in fitting their role, because I like the person and want to respect them. It does not come naturally at all though. I feel like my brother is much more close to a natural me actually, and he brings that out. Probably why I don't like ENTps but like him anyway.

[Gilly]

Mom's ESI (Super-Ego)
Dad's LSE (Illusionary)

Always had a better relationship with my Mom for some reason. We'd fight and argue about everything, but it wasn't too bad (at least for me ). My Dad and I have absolutely nothing in common.

I'd say conflicting relations are much much worse than super-ego.

Funny, my mother is my Super-Ego as well, and while we definitely have "combat," we understand each other well enough and, as long as we are both patient of each other, we get along fine. The only problem is when we try to work on something together; we always wind up sort of passively dueling over "who's boss" My dad is by Comparative, and while we do some interesting things together, our views on certain issues, which we are both rather invested in, are drastically conflicting, so we tend to skirt around anything not relevant to our actual relationship, which leaves us feeling a bit inaccessible to each other, I think.

[Gilly]

1) What is it like to have both parents of one's opposing quadra?

Me: EIE
Mother: LSE
Father: EII

My mother and I get into fights frequently and are pretty much engaged in a constant power struggle in our relationship, but we also understand each other fairly well and are always growing with what we learn from each other. With my father, it is the exact opposite: our relationship is even-keeled, tending towards stagnation, but we are somewhat of a mystery to the other, and I think on a deep level we both feel that the other is misguided and unhealthy. We get along fine, but there is always an undercurrent of distance and tension, with the exception of when we are engaging in mutually enjoyed activities: bike riding, discussing our father-son experiences, and, soon, playing Go. We have to force or pull what we want out of each other, but when we are both willing and open, and not being needlessly stubborn, we can make things work, and even come close to seeing eye to eye; with proper communication, we know we are looking at the same thing, even if each of us is wearing drastically different colored glasses.

4) What sorts of actions can parents (and children) take to ameliorate the negative effects of socionics-related differences?

Be extremely honest and direct in communicating emotions in as non-confrontational a manner as possible, in that sort of post-modern, Oprah-esque "I feel x when you y" fashion, but also don't be afraid to be yourself, because you can't consistently hold back or limit your own self-expression just for the sake of another person; things can always be resolved when people are honest and make it known that they love and want each other despite their differences, and if, despite everyone's most sincere efforts, they really can't, then everyone involved is probably better off without each other.

That might be specific to the Delta Rational vs. Beta Rational values and accommodating both of them, but it works for us.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Gilly]

Ne subtypes are pretty silly sometimes; Ti subs, not so much.

[Computer Loser]

My mother is ISFj, my dad is ISFp...They have arguments and conflicting views ALL the time... Every argument would go something like this: My mom suggests something, my dad would then turn it down and say that it's ridiculous- often in a tone that would be considered rude to my mother, but harmless to my father. My mom would then get angry at this and blow up at my dad; this would go back and fourth until the next cycle...Never reaching full understanding of each others views. I feel like some sort of judge caught in the middle of it all- I can totally see why each are hurt but they can't see it themselves. Tears me apart to see this everyday.

My brother is INFp...We get along for the most part but he frequently fights with my parents.

I wonder what it would be like to have your family all in the same quadra...