Is this a better representation of type

[Hugo]

Note: Functions are not placed in any particular order for each type.

INTj


ENTp


ESFj


ISFp


INFp


ESTp


ENFj


ISTj


ENTj


INTp


ESFp


ISFj


ESTj


ISTp


ENFp


INFj

[WVBRY]

Well, that is interesting actually, but isnt the hidden agenda really weak and unstable according to Ganin?

[Hugo]

Forget about Ganin for the purposes of this thread

[Transigent]

Edited for gayness.

[Hugo]

I think the presence of the hidden agenda carries a heavy weight in a person's mind when he thinks of his own personality. Dual seeking function ... less so.

[Transigent]

Edited for gayness.

[Hugo]

You cannot say that people think that their hidden agenda is important enough to completely value it in other people withouht changing the relationships to a certain extent.

It seems you've misunderstood me. The first post helps people to identify their own type.

INTj


ENTp


ESFj


ISFp


INFp


ESTp


ENFj


ISTj


ENTj


INTp


ESFp


ISFj


ESTj


ISTp


ENFp


INFj

[XoX]

This is interesting post. Right now I can't say if it really has value or not but the idea itself made me really raise my eyebrows. Simple, elegant. I get the feeling:"Why haven't I thought about it from this point of view?". I really have to give it some thought

[Creepy-]

Well, that is interesting actually, but isnt the hidden agenda really weak and unstable according to Ganin?

I would be inclined to disagree with Ganin on this point. Maybe the estimative function is weak but in my experience/observation it is used very well. ILIs tend to have good , SLEs tend to have good , etc. etc.

Though perhaps it is related to intelligence (I don't remember who mentioned it, I think it was either FDG or Kim, someone correct me if I'm wrong).

[Raver]

I agree with Hugo, I find that is a lot stronger in ENFps than socionics makes it appear.

I believe the order of the 3rd and 4th functions iof MBTIs much better than the ones socionics made. However, I believe socionics is correct for the 1st and 2nd functions.

If anyone actually read through my whole typology that I created, you would see that I ordered it this way with the 4 major functions and then included what I believed to be the minor functions:

http://the16types.info/forums/viewto...ote=viewresult

[Creepy-]

I agree with Hugo, I find that is a lot stronger in ENFps than socionics makes it appear.

I believe the order of the 3rd and 4th functions iof MBTIs much better than the ones socionics made. However, I believe socionics is correct for the 1st and 2nd functions.

If anyone actually read through my whole typology that I created, you would see that I ordered it this way with the 4 major functions and then included what I believed to be the minor functions:

http://the16types.info/forums/viewto...ote=viewresult

Do you think Socionics' superid is conscious, then? MBTI is somewhat on the right track, I think, in terms of order of use but the Model A functions are somewhat independent of use (and you can tell fromthe descriptions of the functions, the 8th function is not the least used function, just the least aware function).

[Raver]

I agree with Hugo, I find that is a lot stronger in ENFps than socionics makes it appear.

I believe the order of the 3rd and 4th functions iof MBTIs much better than the ones socionics made. However, I believe socionics is correct for the 1st and 2nd functions.

If anyone actually read through my whole typology that I created, you would see that I ordered it this way with the 4 major functions and then included what I believed to be the minor functions:

http://the16types.info/forums/viewto...ote=viewresult

Do you think Socionics' superid is conscious, then? MBTI is somewhat on the right track, I think, in terms of order of use but the Model A functions are somewhat independent of use (and you can tell fromthe descriptions of the functions, the 8th function is not the least used function, just the least aware function).

Yeah, I also believe that MBTI is not as bad as people say it is in here. Though, I think socionics is better overall and has less problems. Here is how I believe in my mind how the order works. This might appear imaginary, but it deals with observations and mostly my own analysis. How do you know socionics and MBTI thought of the functions in the same manner I did. Seriously, they are so different so they might of not studied it emiprically. Here is the way I believe ordering works:

Ordering and Usage

1st major function - Strong and used frequently
1st minor function - Weak and used frequently. Manner of usage depends on type of function.

2nd major function - Strong and used moderately
2nd minor function - Weak and used moderately. Manner of use depends on type of function.

3rd major function - Weak and developing to become strong, requires its minor to develop. When used occasionally can be useful, otherwise it becomes useless if overused.
3rd minor function - Strong, but overshadowed by the 2nd major function. Solely used to develop 3rd major function and to assist it when required. Can switch with 2nd major function depending on the situation.

4th major function - Weak and developing to become strong, requires its minor to develop. When used rarely can be useful, otherwise it becomes useless if overused.
4th minor function - Strong, but overshadowed by the 1st major function. Solely used to develop 4th major function and to assist it when required. Can switch with 1st major function depending on the situation.

[Hugo]

Also what I propose helps in type identity

[science as magic]

I think the presence of the hidden agenda carries a heavy weight in a person's mind when he thinks of his own personality. Dual seeking function ... less so.

I agree with this but I think your personal knowledge function might be up in there somewhere too.

I agree with Hugo, I find that is a lot stronger in ENFps than socionics makes it appear.

He is not saying that necessarily.

[Expat]

I think the presence of the hidden agenda carries a heavy weight in a person's mind when he thinks of his own personality. Dual seeking function ... less so.

I agree with this but I think your personal knowledge function might be up in there somewhere too.
.

Yes, I agree with what Pedro wrote. In fact, if you go down that path, I think that the only functions I personally easily recognize as obviously weak in myself are the PoLR and role function, and .

[WVBRY]

Well, that is interesting actually, but isnt the hidden agenda really weak and unstable according to Ganin?

I would be inclined to disagree with Ganin on this point. Maybe the estimative function is weak but in my experience/observation it is used very well. ILIs tend to have good , SLEs tend to have good , etc. etc.

Though perhaps it is related to intelligence (I don't remember who mentioned it, I think it was either FDG or Kim, someone correct me if I'm wrong).

Ganin himself seems to contradict himself in his explanations of the hidden agnenda, like first he talks about it as if its something one hides from others but is aware of wanting to accomplish in oneslf, then at another instance he talks about like its some motive you aerent aware of but others could pick up on. I think he basically coined the term "hidden agenda" if Im not mistaken, but perhaps the expression of this function is too versatile to call it by one name.

As far as it being used well is concerend you might be on to something....
the truth is, I dont know for sure, but that might help me in finding my type...

Blake I find this theory interesting, but I dont exactly understand what you are saying. Doesnt everyone use all the functions, lest they stop being animals and become plants? Or are those three functions you have listed for each type only the strong functions of that type?

[Hugo]

I'd like to give examples.

For ENFj they have . This is why they have forceful/sharp emotions

As for ESFj, they have . This is why they have relaxed emotions.

ENTj - - Rapid forceful productivity
ESTj - - relaxed productivity

[Hugo]

I agree with Hugo, I find that is a lot stronger in ENFps than socionics makes it appear.

He is not saying that necessarily.

I am saying this to an extent.

[Kristiina]

I would never type myself as a ENTj according to this chart. I have no . At least not worth mentioning.

[Hugo]

So what would you type yourself as?

[Hugo]

Blake I find this theory interesting, but I dont exactly understand what you are saying. Doesnt everyone use all the functions, lest they stop being animals and become plants? Or are those three functions you have listed for each type only the strong functions of that type?

These functions are most influential to a person's personality.

[implied]

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