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Thread: An Explanation of Martyrdom

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    Default An Explanation of Martyrdom

    This is in response to something I read in the Relations section. Though I wasn't planning on posting anymore, I felt the need to address this since there are people who could benefit.

    NEVER use emotions as a way to make someone "respect" you. It's not a good idea to ask this kind of advice on a forum on the internet...

    I think I might be able to translate this into , so that a certain someone can understand it better. (Ok, it was FDG).

    Here goes:

    Imagine that there is a person who's interest is in expanding small diamond quarries. The benefit of this business venture is in the value that the quarries will have once they are fully operational, yielding expensive diamonds that will alter be sold at high prices. This person knows full well that it is a risky business that most people purposely avoid, but it is the only way he knows how to earn money, and this is his "skill." This business is risky because there is no way of knowing the amount of diamonds that can be taken out of the quarry, and he could be paying a lot more than what will come out of it.

    Either way, this person decides to make the investment. He first buys a small quarry, starting his relationship with it; he will now dedicate his time on the investment from now on. Each year, he pays a certain annuity which goes towards maintaing the quarry (covering the all costs). However, as in all businesses in real life, there will be unexpected setbacks that will present themselves, and the costs will fluctuate. After some time, the person calculates the future worth of the company and notices that the costs are outweighing the benefits, and in time, it appears as if he will not be able to break even with this venture. This is a very depressing time for this person: the safe choice is to terminate the investment out of fear of falling into bankruptcy. However, if he does so, he will have lost a lot of money. The probable choice for this person is to go along with the venture because he is very optimistic, and he prefers to fall into bankrupty rather than to face the fact that his business could have yielded an incredible profit in diamonds.

    However, an obvious way out of getting out of potential bankruptcy is if this person pays off the costs with fake money, and using dirty tactics. This person has integrity, so he should not take this option, because it will be hard to live with himself later on for what he did.

    --------------------------

    The person represents what you are referring to as a "martyr." He knows that his business might be the end of him, but he doesn't really care because he wants to develop people's potential. The value, of course, is personal. There are those who value money, because they can get material things by using it. This person bases his security and worth in being able to change people to a certain way, which he considers beneficial and efficient. He knows that there are people that cannot be changed, at least by his abilities. However, unless he makes the investment, he knows that other people will not do it and the person's potential will go to waste.

    Either way, he decides to help someone. He focuses his attention to the person. In time, he allots time to be spent helping the individual which will eventually start a positive change. However, there are the inevitable setbacks that go against his original plan. People might actually be hurting this person without knowing what he is trying to do. Why can they not see what is going to happen later to the person I am helping? If he can get through these setbacks, he knows that the end result will greatly exceed any costs that were involved in the process. This person gets depressed when he notices that his end result might not be possible after all. What is he to do? He has spent so much time on this person, to later terminate his efforts? Depending on previous experiences, he will either terminate it to be safe, or continue until what he has wanted becomes realized.

    However, an obvious way to get what he wants is to emotionally or psychologically manipulate people. Depending on the situation, it could mean faking emotions to get a response, or making the person he is trying to help feel terrible so as to have more control. He has integrity, so he should never choose these options, because he will not be able to live with himself in the future for having done this.


    Is it clearer now?

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    Default Re: An Explanation of Martyrdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanum
    This person bases his security and worth in being able to change people to a certain way, which he considers beneficial and efficient.
    Only an individual himself knows what is good for him, not other people.

    Sorry, I will never ever favour people-fixing, never.

    I understand your whole point, but I still disagree wholeheatily.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    FDG wrote:
    Arcanum wrote:
    This person bases his security and worth in being able to change people to a certain way, which he considers beneficial and efficient.
    Only an individual himself knows what is good for him, not other people.

    Sorry, I will never ever favour people-fixing, never.

    I understand your whole point, but I still disagree wholeheatily.

    It's not so much as doing what is "good for him," but how he wants this person to act. Once the person acts the way he wanted (which he considers to be benificial) and consistently, then the business is 'over.' For example, there might be someone who is sick lying in bed. Of course this sick person knows what is good for him, but what can the particular do about it? Well, this is where your "martyr" comes into play. He (or she) wants to see this person well, already seeing the things he could be doing instead of lying in bed suffering. The fact that this person is suffering causes him pain. In order to remove the pain, he has to see that this person gets well again, not being in suffering over sickness. This goes also to people who he sees are having deep emotional issues that are affecting both themselves and the social environment.

    "Martyrs," however, are people who are willing to die for their faith (without hurting others unlike Yihad people). This doesn't mean that they wanted to die, actually I've yet to know of a martyr (at least Christian) who has purposely killed himself. I don't intend to start a religious discussion on this, just to point out that there is a difference between a 'martyr' and someone who wants to genuinely 'help' people as in the first paragraph. You could argue that one cannot be without the other though.

    Continuing what I was saying in the first paragraph... The person I am referring to is based on myself, so I guess that would make him INFj (or ISFj). So you say that you disagree wholeheartedly, can you be more specific? Is it that it doesn't make sense, or that it is not something you find prudent?

    I can easily see this discussion go into the dual relationship between and as main functions.

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