How do you hold on to an ISTJ?

**MatchInside** · 03-24-2006, 03:32 PM

I am dating an ISTJ. Yes, she comes across as cold and emotionless.
She is church going, into traditions, and any type of holidays.
How do you please this type of person?

When I broke up with her..(3 times)...she was like..."fine, leave."

When I apologized and went back...she accepted me back.

When I had sex...she just played the role and went with the flow. No attachments, no feelings.

She flirts with men when given the opportunity. When I ask her, "Have you cheated on me?" She says no.

Is this typical ISTJ? Are they manipulative? Can they be cunning/liars?

**Jimbean** · 03-24-2006, 06:13 PM

This does not seem like a problem dealing with socionics.

**CuriousSoul** · 03-24-2006, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by MatchInside

Is this typical ISTJ? Are they manipulative? Can they be cunning/liars?

They can be. For one thing ISJTs often keep an awful lot of themselves strictly private. They also tend to plan things ready in their head and may then suddenly take action that can seem both very determined and quite unpredictable.

**FDG** · 03-24-2006, 08:50 PM

I have an ISTj father, and an ISTj friend, both sensory subtypes, and they're really warm with wife/girlfriend.

Doesn't seem a problem about type to me.

**Functianalyst** · 03-24-2006, 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by FDG

I have an ISTj father, and an ISTj friend, both sensory subtypes, and they're really warm with wife/girlfriend. Doesn't seem a problem about type to me.

Same here, but I continue to forget what Socionics calls ISTj, I consider ISTP. As for ISTJ (MBTI), I would not fathom being dogmatic. The only one that I have dated actually appeared more F-ish when alone and put on the facade during work hours. She had problems having to keep up pretense utilizing her thinking function.

**Expat** · 03-25-2006, 06:06 AM

Originally Posted by Functianalyst

Same here, but I continue to forget what Socionics calls ISTj, I consider ISTP.

I suggest you continue to forget that. That J/P shifting story is just confusing. There is no simple correlation between MBTI and socionics types. If you read the profiles, you'll see that a socionics ISTj resembles far more a MBTI ISTJ than ISTP.

**MatchInside** · 03-28-2006, 01:59 AM

Expat,
You mentioned that your ISTJ ex ended the relationship quite badly. What do you mean? How did it happen? What did you do?

**Expat** · 03-28-2006, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by MatchInside

Expat,
You mentioned that your ISTJ ex ended the relationship quite badly. What do you mean? How did it happen? What did you do?

First, I thought for some time that she was ISTj, but later I realized that she was actually ISFj sensory subtype and further reflection/evidence has confirmed that typing. ISFj sensory subtypes often have a "cold and logical" front or even self-image and are often mistaken for ISTjs.

Second, she ended it from a safe distance, via e-mail and then phone, refusing any further contact and explanations, and also saying hurtful things on purpose.

Third, I'm not sure that your gf is ISTj.

**MatchInside** · 03-28-2006, 05:57 PM

Thank you for the reply. My girlfriend took the MBTI test in college and she came out to be ISTJ. I don't know what she is according to socionics. Truth be told, I didn't know much about Myers-Briggs nor Socionics till one day she randomnly mentioned she was an ISTJ. Her personality was interesting, so I went and researched about ISTJ behavior. Lo and behold, things began to make sense. I read the other personality characteristics, but none fit her quite so well.
I was curious about my own personality, so I went online and took the test. Took several actually, and came up INTP (MBTI).
Now I don't know what's going to happen in our relationship. There is a lot of "mystery" to my gf even after 9 months of dating. Mind you, it's long distance, so I don't get to spend alot of time with her. She wants the "quite", "acts of service," type of relation. Our phone conversations are timed. The e-mails she gives are short and precise...and timely. She has put me down infront of her family, yelled at me for driving erratically, she has asked me to throw away my old pair of shoes, my shirt, etc...
We became quite intimate within a few weeks of dating. This came as a shock to me because she preached the "gospel" and claimed she never slept with anyone. This was the first, "what-the-F..k???" moment for me.
I've seen her look and flirt with men sometimes. She shows no real affection for me, yet expects me to literally "take the bullet" for her. I sometimes wonder, is she a whore? why do I put up with this shit?
However, I am willing give her the benefit of the doubt...since I've not caught her "red-handed" doing anything mischievous. I will also give into the fact that one INTP (MBTI) weakness is suspiciousness...which I have.
But the real reason I am holding on to her is because I want to prove something. Maybe continue this "experiment" till I catch her...or better yet...hold on to her till the "clouds of paranoia" clear from my head and she turns out to be the perfect one I was looking for all along.

**Expat** · 03-28-2006, 06:42 PM

I have the impression that she is indeed a socionics ISTj.

However, from the way you describe the relationship, I suspect you may be INTj rather than INTp.

She does act as an aggressor, but that seems to disconcert you.

**MatchInside** · 03-28-2006, 06:52 PM

Expat, with all due respect...with your experience, either from literature or real life...
Is the fact that she is an aggressor something to worry about?
Basically what I am asking is (pardon me, I am American),
Can I make the relationship work if I play the cards right? Or would she see this as a sign of weakness and turn around and stab me in the back?

She is a sweet woman, but man...I am perceiving her as pure evil.

**Expat** · 03-28-2006, 07:20 PM

First, please take a look at this thread, also at the link provided by XoX in the first post:

http://the16types.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2586

So you'll understand what I mean with "aggressor".

Second, I do think she's ISTj, so I'll assume she is --

To be an "aggressor" means that that's how she's wired sexually/romantically. That's the case of ISTj, ISFj, ESTp, ESFp.

Their ideal partners are the "victims": ENFj, ENTj, INFp, INTp.

You seem to be disconcerted by her being an aggressor, and you find her cold, emotionless, etc.

ISTjs are not good in expressing their emotions or in predicting, or understanding, how their actions will affect others emotionally. Their ideal partners - their duals - are the ENFjs, who not only are sexual "victims" but also are very strong in reading other's emotions: they are able to see through the apparent coldness of an ISTj (and unconsciously expect it).

If you are INTj, you unconsciously expect a partner who is not only very able to express her own emotions, but to read yours - the ESFj. Also, you'd unconsciously expect someone who's a sexual "careful".

If you are INTp, you are ok with the sexual aggressor bit but you'd also be expecting someone more emotionally expressive, more "passional", less rigid - the ESFp.

This is not to say that a relationship between yourself (whether INTp or INTj) and an ISTj woman can't work - it's to explain why you are disconcerted by her behavior, and that she probably sees it very differently from you.

In principle, an ISTj woman would unconsciously expect her partner to be "weaker" than herself - what she can't deal with is moodiness, disordliness, unpredictability, irrationality, too much spontaneity, unreliability.

**MatchInside** · 03-28-2006, 07:59 PM

Fair enough.
Thank you for taking the time once again.

**MatchInside** · 03-28-2006, 08:02 PM

Where are you getting your information on ISTJs?
Is there a book you would suggest?

**Expat** · 03-29-2006, 07:05 AM

Originally Posted by MatchInside

Where are you getting your information on ISTJs?
Is there a book you would suggest?

All the available books in English will be on MBTI, not socionics, so no.

If you want to understand the ISTj's mind, please read this profile:

oldforumlinkviewtopic.php?t=3467&highlight=

It's a babelfish translation from Russian, but it's worth the effort. Please note that Maxim=ISTj, and Hamlet=ENFj.

To emphasize the distinction between socionics and MBTI types, since you got here via MBTI, please take a look here:

http://the16types.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2572

http://the16types.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2416

Having said that, I do think your gf is ISTj, based on your description (and I think a socionics ISTj is likely to test as a MBTI ISTJ), but I'm not sure about your own type.

The fact that you tested INTP in MBTI means very little, but since you identified with the profile, I'll assume you are a socionics INTj or INTp, but it would be useful if you could read socionics profiles.

Regarding further information on socionics, all of it is in the internet.