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    Pretend like it's the weekend Banana Pancakes's Avatar
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    Default Type this MF...I mean NF

    Conversation with a friend (James) who tried to type here ages ago, thinks he is ENFp now which I think is a good typing.

    James: lolz
    12:03 PM i got on there to look at the old post we did for me a week or so ago
    12:04 PM me: where they all said you were enfj?
    James: and infp
    and intp
    lol
    me: link?
    James: infp and enfj were equally voted
    intp was only like twice
    uhhhh
    let me find it again
    12:05 PM me: you're not intp, that's for sure
    I think our relationship is probably mirror tbh, it's similar to with my brother I suppose
    James: hahaha
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ty-crisis.html
    12:08 PM me: identity crisis!
    12:09 PM James: so intense
    really intense guy that moffmike9
    kinda annoying
    me: well you definitely sound Beta in this
    James: i know right!!!
    me: defending the underdog! strong opinions!
    you seem to not be that way lately though?
    12:10 PM James: not really lately
    i used to be really passionate
    about like, "helping progress good"
    idk
    my whole life seems to go up and down
    so who knows
    12:11 PM me: From that weird zipper video....
    guy on left: Gamma NT, maybe INTp
    guy on right: maybe INFp
    James: hahahah
    lolz
    "weird zipper video"
    good times
    yeah idk
    me: where is that thing
    that was hilarious, it's gone from youtube
    12:12 PM James: ikr
    mmmmmmmmmmmm
    yeah idk, im not a very confident guy
    me: I definitely agree on Si Super-Ego, but I don't think he has an EJ temperament at all. IP, maybe IJ, but not EJ. His behavior is too inconsistent.
    He also values Se, I could see INxP for that reason as well.
    guess I thought you were an introvert too
    James: you did
    12:13 PM hahaha
    me: alright so your post 17
    does xxxxx fit those things?
    James: uhhh
    send me link
    12:14 PM i left page
    me: and then you had decided you were ISTp
    GOOD TIMES!
    YOU should start a whole new thread
    James: im so unintersted in typing myself lol
    cause really, i cant dude
    im fucking nuts
    me: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/380324-post17.html
    James: i cant type myself, tests dont work, examinatio ndoesnt work
    im useless
    someone else has to type me
    12:15 PM James: no xxxx doesnt line up with this. im having to train her to.
    what i find interesting is
    how confident both me and you come across to OTHERS
    cause we both swear we arnt confident people
    but with me and you both, people think we are confident, elitist assholes.
    me: I just like that he communicates EVERYTHING perfectly, and gets shit done, and does it right, and is carefull, and aware, and doesnt TRIP ON THINGS!
    you were really pissed off about the tripping here
    12:16 PM James: i really dont like that
    hahaha
    me: right on the confidence
    James: like shayla, and she isnt the only one, said she wouldnt even dare approach me because i had such a heir of confidence about me
    me: like I just never want to show when I'm uncertain or sad or whatever, any negative emotions, I always want this face of happiness
    James: like i didnt care what anyone thought
    like...if you only knew!!!!
    12:17 PM me: yeah, do introverts look unconfident? i guess, even though they're internally confident
    James: i dunno
    all i know is people always tell me that
    and im always confused
    me: like I have a good understanding of Ti, Te, Si, Se, Fe and even sort of Fi
    12:18 PM but Ni makes little sense and so does Ne
    James: hahaah
    well
    we are one of the other
    so that sucks
    hahaha
    me: as far as I understand though, it's like this explosion of understanding of the usefulness of things
    James: the thing we are you cant understand
    perfect
    hmmmm
    me: like you know how I'm always spotting random deals and shit? like that's my Ne as far as I can tell, it's not like gamma Ni+Te of like creating formulas to maximize income
    12:19 PM like Ne is just a situational intuition okay, so like how will this isolated situation or action turn out?
    Ni is like this wacky long term view of multiple possible outcomes of everything over time
    12:20 PM so I don't feel like I'm Ni, and plus I'm 100% Ti, so I'm alpha, there's not really any other option
    James: well then im def. not Ni
    me: now you, all I really get is that you're NF
    James: i relate to what your saying about Ne
    i do not relate to what your saying about Ni
    me: yeah i don't see you as Ni either, but I do sort of see you as Fe, which has got me confused, but knowing my brother, you sort of act like him and you certainly value Si like I do
    12:21 PM BIG HUGE TIME
    James: im also realizing this big issue i have with understanding things on this completely like, non concrete manner. like i always understand a concept deep in my brain before i can write it down in "understandable" terms. does that make sense to you?
    me: so it's gotta be delta for you
    James: like i "see" things. per se.
    me: okay so let's talk about understanding things
    James: idk
    12:22 PM like i just understaned a process before i can explain it
    me: so like Ti and Te
    James: like systems and stuff
    how stuff works and connects
    but i cant like explain it
    when people ask
    and that makes me feel really dumb
    thus the unconfidence
    everything "connects" in my head
    12:23 PM like (an estj) is alway simpressed when i diagnose stuff
    cause all the parts make the connection in my head and i can simply eliminate options
    till im left with the only possible problem
    but i cant do it with people in the room either
    hahaha
    like i literally cannot concentrate if someone is standing near
    im always telling (An istp) to go away when im typing
    something
    because i literally wont be able to see it from my eyes
    if someone is standing there
    12:24 PM i switch to their brain
    and process whats being types from their perspective
    and i lose concentration
    on what actually needs to be typed
    i cannot concentrate with others present
    me: haha wow
    James: and it takes me forver to process
    what i understand already
    like, i can understand something and it will take a year before i can say it
    this happens with like "spiritual" things i guess you would call it
    12:25 PM "how humanity works"
    per se
    me: sounding like (an infj) over there
    okay can i throw some functions at you now
    James: i understand in a moment, and it all makes sense in my head, and then i take FOREVER to finally be able to put it into practical implemetation
    me: Ti which alpha/beta values is like an understanding of concepts and ideas and knowledge in an integrated, connected, organized system. Here is a fact, but here is also why that is a fact and the other facts it is related to and backs up and what is a fact based on that fact. ENFp's weak point is Ti. I personally cannot like, understand or do something if I don't understand it fully, like the reasoning and purpose behind it.
    12:26 PM "i understand in a moment, and it all makes sense in my head, and then i take FOREVER to finally be able to put it into practical implemetation" that sounds really delta NF Te seeking
    12:27 PM James: yeah
    me: Te on the other hand is a situational logic. Here's what's happening now, here's the actions that are taking place, here's how to do x. Here's an isolated fact, piece of data, instruction, with no overall plan or reason behind it, just do x. Norm connell telling your mom to just hop the stapler around the chair. What the fuck is this guy saying? says the Ti seeker.
    delta/gamma use Te
    12:28 PM James: yeah
    me: so like which of those would appeal to you
    12:29 PM James: uhhh
    wait
    me: "just hop around, like a bunny rabbit, hop hop hop"
    James: i understand what (An estj) is saying usually
    12:30 PM he always raves about how i get concepts quickly
    and can understand things about cars, people like my brother xxxx, for soem reason just never seem to get no matter how many times you explain
    idk
    (an istp) isolates data
    for sure
    she just kind of see whats happening NOW
    and acts on that item
    pretty simple way of living
    highly inveable
    12:31 PM enviable
    me: the seeing what's happening would be Si, and the acting Te
    I'm pretty sure (an istp) is istp
    James: gotta be
    James: not istj at all
    way to laid back
    me: okay how about Fe vs Fi, i'm not going to be so good at explaining this
    James: ive read up finally on all the types
    so this is all information ive seen before
    me: Fe is alpha/beta, it's an extraverted element, it's focused on the emotional atmopshere, what's ahppening now, what's going on with this person at this moment
    James: yeah
    see
    12:33 PM Fe...mmmmm
    type up Fi
    me: Fi is like...i don't get it but it's more internal, it's like Ti but with ethics, so like it's....relationships between people, emotions between them, Fi people seem to have these very personal gut feelings and statements about people
    12:34 PM "I don't like john mayer. plus he dated jennifer aniston. I don't like her." - actual Fi statement from an ENFp, very personal, very biased, all about relationships and personal vibes
    James: uhhh i dont relate to that statement cause im not a dumbass
    12:35 PM but (an istp) is always talking about how its weird how well i understand people without knowing them?
    me: Fi is the hardest for me to explain because i just don't get it.
    James: she doesnt understand how im able to make moral judgments and know who to avoid and who to be friends with with only one interaction with them
    me: yeah you do that A LOT
    James: so idk if im actually goood at that though
    but i do know how to avoid people
    12:36 PM i do constantly make statements about peoples chracter
    and how i will avoid them as a result
    was doing that just yesterday with her
    when she was talking about a new place for use to live in may
    i told her "we shouldnt rent from them. i dont trust their motivations as a whole."
    me: hahhahahahhaha wtf
    12:37 PM James: so, the thing is, I AM very aware of whats going on in the room
    me: you're probably enfp, or maybe infj
    James: around me
    but i dont engage it really
    if i do, its very subtle
    most of the time, tipping the scales to change the enviroment to one tahts more pleaseing is to overwhelming for me
    i however notice every bit of how a enviroment is "off" in some way
    me: when you say what's going on, what do you mean? the actions? the behaviors? the emotions? the power? the phyiscal sensations? there's a lot you can notice in a room.
    12:38 PM James: how people feel about each other. who doesnt like who. how awkward people feel. etc.
    i also notice any abnorality in a room
    thus why i dont trip on things!!!
    i notice if there is a hose laying across a walk way , etc. its not just emotions i notice. i dont know. i just suck in all the informatio nthe room is presenting
    me: ok all that shit is Fi
    12:39 PM James: and what it says about the over all atmosphere
    me: the first sentence anyway
    the noticing things to trip on, dunno what the fuck that is
    seems kinda like Si almost
    James: being a AWARE person
    idk, ive foced myself to do it
    and now its habit i guess
    like when i used to drive
    when i first started i was horrible
    me: well now you sound ISFp
    James: would get lost all the time
    so i just forced myself to pay more attention
    and now i dont have any issue
    12:40 PM idk, people limit themselves
    most stuff is just a decision
    *most
    not ALL
    me: what if i pasted this whole conversation and let the jackals look at it
    James: hahahaha
    jackal away
    sounds funny
    i dont know if ive been 100 perecnt honest though
    thats my big problem
    me: oh god
    James: i morph information
    me: did you eat all this acid?
    James: thats why i cant type myself
    12:41 PM seriosuly
    i speak according to who i am talking to
    so i cant trust what i say all the time
    i have to realllyyyyyy concentrate
    me: right
    James: to remain honest
    so post that part with it if you do
    so they understand all that as well
    ILE-Ti
    6w7 sx/sp (low level of confidence)

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    Fi is like...i don't get it but it's more internal, it's like Ti but with ethics, so like it's....relationships between people, emotions between them, Fi people seem to have these very personal gut feelings and statements about people
    12:34 PM "I don't like john mayer. plus he dated jennifer aniston. I don't like her." - actual Fi statement from an ENFp, very personal, very biased, all about relationships and personal vibes
    LOL Are you being serious?? Your friend's opinion of John Mayer has nothing to do with his/her Fi-based worldview. That's called having an opinion on whether his songs suck. Or do Ti-people not have opinions on which songwriters they like?
    IEE

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny_dancer View Post
    LOL Are you being serious?? Your friend's opinion of John Mayer has nothing to do with his/her Fi-based worldview. That's called having an opinion on whether his songs suck. Or do Ti-people not have opinions on which songwriters they like?
    I don't understand Fi. I even said it. I was trying to give an example on the personal attitudes of Fi, how it's all related to what (to me) is a vague and unexplained gut feeling towards someone.

    Do you identify with James's phrasing and comments? Does he seem like your identical?
    ILE-Ti
    6w7 sx/sp (low level of confidence)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    Yeah, Fi is the devil. Anything you don't like and don't understand is Fi.
    Good to see you again Pinocchio, as abrasive and arrogant as always. Care to contribute something useful about my friend's type?
    ILE-Ti
    6w7 sx/sp (low level of confidence)

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    Sorry - I just get tired of Fi being characterized as "someone who evidences personal bias." No. Ti people can be just as biased and act upon their personal sentiments as well.

    how people feel about each other. who doesnt like who. how awkward people feel. etc.
    i also notice any abnorality in a room
    Yes, those are the same things I pick up on. Lots of little subconscious details in the way people interact.

    I personally cannot like, understand or do something if I don't understand it fully, like the reasoning and purpose behind it.
    Actually I would say this about myself as well. Another thing people here seem to have stuck in their head: Ti-polrs only want to learn disconnected facts to make themselves feel smart. No. I'd much rather understand the big picture. I just won't be able to formulate it on my own and have it neatly organized in my head. Nor will I automatically connect new information to it. But as for having no curiosity about why the world is the way it is...eh, no.

    Here's an isolated fact, piece of data, instruction, with no overall plan or reason behind it, just do x.
    Honestly, I hate this. If someone shows me a better/faster/cleaner method for what I'm doing, then I'm all ears - but as for having someone drop instructions from the sky.. can't stand it.

    she doesnt understand how im able to make moral judgments and know who to avoid and who to be friends with with only one interaction with them...i told her "we shouldnt rent from them. i dont trust their motivations as a whole."
    This...um.. I understand what he's saying. I usually recognize when I am on the same page with someone or when I'm not. I can also tell when two other people are on the same page or not - or whether they're talking "around" each other, each hearing something different, but not understanding what the person is really saying. Most of the time I wouldn't characterize it as a moral judgment, as though the people have done something "wrong." It's more like recognizing non-parity in the relationship.

    Many times that will end poorly - either in a business deal gone wrong, or a relationship that blows up because the two don't understand each other...sometimes worse than that. If you're fine with that, then FINE. It's not that big of a deal. I, personally, am not fine with it, and I use NeFi to keep me out of those situations. I understand all the emotional fall-out that occurs when each person's expectations don't line up together, and frankly I don't feel like dealing with it when it's perfectly obvious what's going to happen.
    IEE

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny_dancer View Post
    Sorry - I just get tired of Fi being characterized as "someone who evidences personal bias." No. Ti people can be just as biased and act upon their personal sentiments as well.
    I get that, it makes sense. I'm extremely biased, and I don't get much about Fi except that it annoys me and gives me a gross feeling in the pit of my stomach when i try to understand it.

    Here is a definition from rick's site
    "subjective relationships between objects: feelings of attraction and repulsion, like and dislike, need and antipathy; morals, subjective judgments"

    What's more personal than Fi? Not Ti. I haven't received a better explanation from Fi valuers than" it does the job for Te that Ti does for Fe" which is useless, because why would we need both if they did the same things?

    Quote Originally Posted by tiny_dancer View Post
    Yes, those are the same things I pick up on. Lots of little subconscious details in the way people interact.

    Actually I would say this about myself as well. Another thing people here seem to have stuck in their head: Ti-polrs only want to learn disconnected facts to make themselves feel smart. No. I'd much rather understand the big picture. I just won't be able to formulate it on my own and have it neatly organized in my head. Nor will I automatically connect new information to it. But as for having no curiosity about why the world is the way it is...eh, no.
    Hmmm interesting. When you say the big picture, how big do you mean? Ne is an extroverted function, it applies to individual ideas, objects, situations, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by tiny_dancer View Post
    Honestly, I hate this. If someone shows me a better/faster/cleaner method for what I'm doing, then I'm all ears - but as for having someone drop instructions from the sky.. can't stand it.
    Most of my understanding of Te is from Te dominants...the creatives I know aren't always randomly barking orders of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by tiny_dancer View Post
    This...um.. I understand what he's saying. I usually recognize when I am on the same page with someone or when I'm not. I can also tell when two other people are on the same page or not - or whether they're talking "around" each other, each hearing something different, but not understanding what the person is really saying. Most of the time I wouldn't characterize it as a moral judgment, as though the people have done something "wrong." It's more like recognizing non-parity in the relationship.

    Many times that will end poorly - either in a business deal gone wrong, or a relationship that blows up because the two don't understand each other...sometimes worse than that. If you're fine with that, then FINE. It's not that big of a deal. I, personally, am not fine with it, and I use NeFi to keep me out of those situations. I understand all the emotional fall-out that occurs when each person's expectations don't line up together, and frankly I don't feel like dealing with it when it's perfectly obvious what's going to happen.
    Okay interesting, definitely sounds similar to my friend. Thanks for the info.

    How do you feel about what he said in that first link thread, where he's all yelling about people tripping over things and defending the underdog? Do you identify with that?
    ILE-Ti
    6w7 sx/sp (low level of confidence)

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    I don't have a problem with Rick's definition of Fi. I agree with it.

    Well, I doubt you're going to get a clearer picture of Fi from a Ti-polr, so I'm not even going to try.

    When you say the big picture, how big do you mean?
    At the moment, this is the best example I can think of, and perhaps it isn't even Ti... but I'm reading a book on marketing for the design industry that categorizes design firms based on their business philosophies/firm qualities and outlines their advantages and disadvantages when competing for different types of work. It takes a very messy industry and creates a framework of understanding. And I can also recognize my firm's niche and how my boss was trying to innovate things.

    As for the last two, I didn't really understand what your friend was talking about from what he wrote.
    IEE

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