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Thread: Borderline Personality Disorder and Multiple Personality Disorder

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    Default Borderline Personality Disorder and Multiple Personality Disorder

    Listed in the DSM criteria for Borderline PD is
    'a weak and highly variable self concept'

    ....could this be type instability?

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    Quote Originally Posted by xixi View Post
    Listed in the DSM criteria for Borderline PD is
    'a weak and highly variable self concept'

    ....could this be type instability?
    If I may guess I would say rather an unhealthy type of ESFJ / ESFP / ENFP

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    I wouldn't guess that Borderline is type related. No type really stands out to me as one that literally loves you and thinks you are the best one day and hates you and thinks you have never done anything right the next for little to no reason.

    Multiple Personality Disorder would be even farther from being type related. It is debated about whether it is even a true disorder or induced by public awareness and psychologists.
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    I think E7 at really unhealthy levels is said to behave this way. I can see how some personality disorders arise from Etype, but probably not so much from Stype.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bardia View Post
    I wouldn't guess that Borderline is type related. No type really stands out to me as one that literally loves you and thinks you are the best one day and hates you and thinks you have never done anything right the next for little to no reason.

    Multiple Personality Disorder would be even farther from being type related. It is debated about whether it is even a true disorder or induced by public awareness and psychologists.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bardia View Post
    Multiple Personality Disorder would be even farther from being type related. It is debated about whether it is even a true disorder or induced by public awareness and psychologists.
    In a psych tute once, the lecturer (a clin psych) told us about one of her patients who had multiple pd - this girl had enrolments in two separate universities, and wasn't aware of it.

    also saw a doco once on multiple pd in which the patient would abruptly switch into younger versions of herself for unpredictable periods - sometimes just a few minutes, sometimes days on end.

    how could public awareness and psychologists 'induce' that kind of behaviour?? usually these behaviours are the reason for the patient going to see the psych (i.e. they occur before the patient has even met a psych).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bardia View Post
    I wouldn't guess that Borderline is type related.
    it's a fact that some personality disorders are related to types. So I think the probability that it is type related is higher then that it's not.

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    Multiple Personality Disorder would be even farther from being type related. It is debated about whether it is even a true disorder or induced by public awareness and psychologists.
    You should read "Switching Time" - it's a book about a lady with 17 personalities created over years of horrific abuse by her father and his friends.

    There's no way that book is made up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny_dancer View Post
    You should read "Switching Time" - it's a book about a lady with 17 personalities created over years of horrific abuse by her father and his friends.

    There's no way that book is made up.
    true. But some psychologists doubt whether it are multiple personalities, or that something else is going on in that mind.

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    I would guess that EPs are more likely to have borderline, but you can't really say that there's a direct relationship between them, even if a behavioral correlation was theoretically established.

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    Borderline personality disorder is very interesting In my opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by tiny_dancer View Post
    You should read "Switching Time" - it's a book about a lady with 17 personalities created over years of horrific abuse by her father and his friends.

    There's no way that book is made up.
    I don't know if it exists or not, through I have heard a psychartist told me once that he never have a Multiple personality disorder patients.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 07490 View Post
    I don't know if it exists or not, through I have heard a psychartist told me once that he never have a Multiple personality disorder patients.
    yes it's rare.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    yes it's rare.
    or maybe people confused it with some other disorder?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 07490 View Post
    or maybe people confused it with some other disorder?
    it seems that persons with multiple personalities also have distinctively different writing styles, depending which personality of them was writing at the moment. Ofcourse you could practice on it, but aside from frauds, this seems to be evidence of the existance of mp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    it seems that persons with multiple personalities also have distinctively different writing styles, depending which personality of them was writing at the moment. Ofcourse you could practice on it, but aside from frauds, this seems to be evidence of the existance of mp.
    ok so it's not just some mood disorder.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    Not related to Socionics but to general traits...

    My abnormal psychology class is teaching the relationship between Big 5 and some mental disorders; research by my professor and others have shown a connection between quite high extraversion, open-mindedness and Bipolar disorders (even compared to a normal sample community) whereas there is low introversion, and high neuroticism for Mood disorders like Major Depression, General Anxiety, etc. However, high neuroticism is basically predictive of any mental disorder, really.

    Just thought this was interesting and related b/c Borderline imo would be related to high neuroticism, low agreeableness, low conscientousness, and ? open-mindedness.


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    Quote Originally Posted by 07490 View Post
    ok so it's not just some mood disorder.
    oh just for the record. Since this thread covers two different subjects...

    Borderline = mood disorder
    Multiple Personality disorder = different personalities in one person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux View Post
    Not related to Socionics but to general traits...

    My abnormal psychology class is teaching the relationship between Big 5 and some mental disorders; research by my professor and others have shown a connection between quite high extraversion, open-mindedness and Bipolar disorders (even compared to a normal sample community) whereas there is low introversion, and high neuroticism for Mood disorders like Major Depression, General Anxiety, etc. However, high neuroticism is basically predictive of any mental disorder, really.

    Just thought this was interesting and related b/c Borderline imo would be related to high neuroticism, low agreeableness, low conscientousness, and ? open-mindedness.
    maybe you can ask your teacher if he knows some correlation between mbti types and personality disorders. It would be interesting to hear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux View Post
    Just thought this was interesting and related b/c Borderline imo would be related to high neuroticism, low agreeableness, low conscientousness, and ? open-mindedness.
    yep

    internet says: borderline -> High Neurotism, Low Agreeableness, Low Conscientousness

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    oh just for the record. Since this thread covers two different subjects...

    Borderline = mood disorder
    Multiple Personality disorder = different personalities in one person.
    Borderline is not a mood disorder. It is a personality disorder.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux View Post
    Borderline is not a mood disorder. It is a personality disorder.
    yes correct.

    Though it's a personality disorder which has instability in moods. So there's the reason for my mistake...

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    Quote Originally Posted by xixi View Post
    In a psych tute once, the lecturer (a clin psych) told us about one of her patients who had multiple pd - this girl had enrolments in two separate universities, and wasn't aware of it.

    also saw a doco once on multiple pd in which the patient would abruptly switch into younger versions of herself for unpredictable periods - sometimes just a few minutes, sometimes days on end.

    how could public awareness and psychologists 'induce' that kind of behaviour?? usually these behaviours are the reason for the patient going to see the psych (i.e. they occur before the patient has even met a psych).
    Quote Originally Posted by tiny_dancer View Post
    You should read "Switching Time" - it's a book about a lady with 17 personalities created over years of horrific abuse by her father and his friends.

    There's no way that book is made up.
    To both of you... I'm not saying it doesn't exist but there is serious debate about whether it is indeed other personalities and how the disorder emerges. Some believe that these people get some sort of social benefit from the symptomology and so it grows (such as in conversion disorder) or that psychologists can prompt patients by putting them under hypnosis and asking things like "is there another personality inside you?".

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    it's a fact that some personality disorders are related to types. So I think the probability that it is type related is higher then that it's not.
    Says who? How can you confirm it as fact?

    In this thread Scarlett talks about the correlations between big five traits and some mood disorders, but the big five traits don't necessarily correlate over to socionics types.
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    I believe DID is a product of type instability.

    Borderline personality disorder is characterized by unstable feelings of attachment and fear of loneliness: borderlines have a great deal of contempt for their partner but they stick with them anyway out of fear that they will be abandoned.

    ...A lot of mentalities can produce the behavioral effect of BPB. As such, it is unwise to treat the diagnosis as anything but a clinician's tool. (that's what DSM is meant to be -- the popularization of its diagnoses is not what its creators intended).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bardia View Post
    Says who? How can you confirm it as fact?
    Somewhere on wikipedia I read that schizoid personality disorders are (nearly) always INTJ or INTP on MBTI tests.

    Though it's not strange that personality disorders SOMEWHAT correlate, they often portray an extreme of a type, or a dichotomy. Also you can exclude types.

    Just for the record, before we get into a discussion about definitions/precision etc. : what I am saying is that not every type can get any personality disorder. And some personality disorders correlate more then others with types. So basicaly it's not a random thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    I believe DID is a product of type instability.
    that's a bold guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    I have never seen pictures of any personality disorder - diagnosed people, I wouldn't mind seeing their type, but I am very sure it can occur with all types.
    every type can get pd. but not every pd.

    Most pd's have criteria that match a certain dichotomie or combination. For example Histronic -> extreme extraverson. So I guess no introvert type will be able to get that diagnose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux View Post
    Not related to Socionics but to general traits...

    My abnormal psychology class is teaching the relationship between Big 5 and some mental disorders; research by my professor and others have shown a connection between quite high extraversion, open-mindedness and Bipolar disorders (even compared to a normal sample community) whereas there is low introversion, and high neuroticism for Mood disorders like Major Depression, General Anxiety, etc. However, high neuroticism is basically predictive of any mental disorder, really.

    Just thought this was interesting and related b/c Borderline imo would be related to high neuroticism, low agreeableness, low conscientousness, and ? open-mindedness.
    Mightn't it be that general traits, Model A, and mood & personality disorders are ALL interrelated? that these theories aren't actually describing exclusive phenomena, but the same, similar or related mental states and processes?

    RE...
    ...A lot of mentalities can produce the behavioral effect of BPB. As such, it is unwise to treat the diagnosis as anything but a clinician's tool. (that's what DSM is meant to be -- the popularization of its diagnoses is not what its creators intended).

    Not trying to popularize personality disorders here, but provoke ppl into thinking about the broader functional consequences of Model A and type.
    Observationally, there are phenotypic similarities and 'apparent' correlations between type and personality disorder - for instance, social avoidance disorder and type - what proportion of ISTp's are socially avoidant compared to ENFj's? You don't need to do a correlational study to know that there is a significant difference. Not saying it's impossible for an ENFj to be socially avoidant, but pointing out that certain temperaments and arrangement of information elements have a higher likelihood of developing certain dysfunctions, and asking why, what is the underlying mechanism?

    The abundance of psych theories we currently have are probably describing similar/related phenomena.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    every type can get pd. but not every pd.

    Not sure if I agree with that statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    Most pd's have criteria that match a certain dichotomie or combination. For example Histronic -> extreme extraverson. So I guess no introvert type will be able to get that diagnose.
    I would argue that histrionic is more about attention seeking than extraversion. I think introverts would be capable of this behavior but that extroverts would probably be more likely candidates.
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    I'm not a psychologist but I think there is certainly a strong correlation between personality type and personality disorder. As an LII I'm quite close to schizotypal disorder but I would certainly never get a histrionic disorder.

    Some criteria of personality disorders even seem to describe exactly an unhealthy example of a certain type. The "uncovered" descriptions on socionics.com also sound like descriptions of certain personality disorders.

    LII - schizotypal - Ne-creative
    ILI - schizoid - Fe-vulnerable
    EIE - paranoid - Ni-creative
    SEE - borderline - Fi-creative
    ESE - histrionic - Fe-base

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bardia View Post
    I would argue that histrionic is more about attention seeking than extraversion. I think introverts would be capable of this behavior but that extroverts would probably be more likely candidates.
    a socionics criteria is that introverts don't like attention, while extraverts tend to have a need for it. I would guess that if you typed all people who have been diagnosed histronic you would get a 95%/5% on E / I

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    You need a bigger trait inventory first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDo View Post
    I'm not a psychologist but I think there is certainly a strong correlation between personality type and personality disorder. As an LII I'm quite close to schizotypal disorder but I would certainly never get a histrionic disorder.

    Some criteria of personality disorders even seem to describe exactly an unhealthy example of a certain type. The "uncovered" descriptions on socionics.com also sound like descriptions of certain personality disorders.

    LII - schizotypal - Ne-creative
    ILI - schizoid - Fe-vulnerable
    EIE - paranoid - Ni-creative
    SEE - borderline - Fi-creative
    ESE - histrionic - Fe-base
    Yeah, I once tried to make a list of it too. Again, it correlates far for perfect, it's not that I want to couple theories, but there are some clear positive correlations and negative correlations to be found.

    From the back of my head, this seems reasonably accurate:

    Schizotypal LII and IEI
    Schizoid ILI and LII
    Paranoid LSI
    Borderline SEE and IEE
    Histronic EIE
    AntiSocial SLE and SLI
    Narcistic SLE?
    ObsessiveCompulsive LSI
    Dependant ESI?
    Avoidant ?

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    what was glenn close's character in fatal attraction? i think that's fairly well agreed-upon as a fictional character who is an amazingly good example of borderline pd. i think people throw around the dx too much without something to use as an example.
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    Quote Originally Posted by implied View Post
    what was glenn close's character in fatal attraction? i think that's fairly well agreed-upon as a fictional character who is an amazingly good example of borderline pd. i think people throw around the dx too much without something to use as an example.
    do you also know or have an idea of the type of the person?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDo View Post
    I'm not a psychologist but I think there is certainly a strong correlation between personality type and personality disorder. As an LII I'm quite close to schizotypal disorder but I would certainly never get a histrionic disorder.

    Some criteria of personality disorders even seem to describe exactly an unhealthy example of a certain type. The "uncovered" descriptions on socionics.com also sound like descriptions of certain personality disorders.

    LII - schizotypal - Ne-creative
    ILI - schizoid - Fe-vulnerable
    EIE - paranoid - Ni-creative
    SEE - borderline - Fi-creative
    ESE - histrionic - Fe-base
    all of those are so wrong...

    so far my research, as sad as it is and as unfair, and it does really break my heart to say, have uncovered none of those to be true. It's part of dangerous ideas that people shouldn't have because, people create stereotypes and cast judgments where they don't understand the science behind such occurrences.

    That’s why, in science, we use research and publish them in review articles where majority of the human population can not get a hold of them and make outrageous assumptions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    all of those are so wrong...

    so far my research,
    there is also other research that sais it's right (at some points).

    You often seem to talk about your own research, but it isn't a crime to lean on other peoples research...it widens your perspective and knowledge

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno
    Somewhere on wikipedia I read that schizoid personality disorders are (nearly) always INTJ or INTP on MBTI tests.
    Perhaps these people are just more likely to simply test as these types.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    enneagram type 6
    Yeah, definitely. I've even had personal experience with this. The girl was ESI but I don't think socionics type had anything to do with it.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  39. #39
    Jarno's Avatar
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    @ maritsa

    I don't see what so hard to accept.

    some types are more common or even exclusively in certain pd's.

    like some types are more common to become a boxer or math professor.

    etc. The link should be obvious.

    oh and about the 1000 SEE. that was just a guess as I said, the only proof/evidence I have is about ILI and LII. You can have that if you want.
    Last edited by Jarno; 02-23-2010 at 08:49 PM.

  40. #40

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    ok I've read enough about this disorder to know that -

    I definitely have it. all bullshit aside. when I peer deep inside of myself...well actually AT myself from a 3rd person point of view, I see that I clearly have this disorder. probably to an extreme degree..


    either way...
    that explains why I can't find a good mate.
    but can fuck a bunch of em and be fine.
    too bad when I get attached...my emotions get BPD.

    SO...I'm an ESFP. and I personally believe that...an unhealthy ESFP and ENFP and ESTP and INFP and INTP can have this disorder.

    I'm sure there's others....but these 5 types, I can verify...through real people I know of those types that have those qualities, at times..

    of course...I believe this disorder to be temporary...and depends on the emotional place you're at in life.

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