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Thread: Small groups instead of Reinin dichotomies

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    Default Small groups instead of Reinin dichotomies

    Why are most Reinin dichotomies not really useful?
    Because very different types belong to the same groups.

    Examples:
    Democratic/Aristocratic: Betas are aristocratic, indeed. Deltas not really...
    Tactical/Strategic: NJs are strategic, indeed. SPs not really, they fail to plan ahead...
    Carefree/Farsighted: ENFp and ENTp are carefree, indeed. ENFj not at all, they worry all the time. They could be called shortsighted instead of carefree...

    So why should there be 8 types in one group? It just doesn't work.
    Smaller groups with 4 types are appropriate for explaining behaviour and even for typing.



    Carefree / Farsighted: (replaced carefree with shortsighted because ENFj and ISFj are not "carefree" at all)
    IS = shortsighted doers --- 4-dimensional --- "let's do what makes us happy today"
    EN = shortsighted dreamers --- 4-dimensional --- "let's see what happens today"
    ES = farsighted doers --- 4-dimensional --- "how can we reach that long-term goal?"
    IN = farsighted dreamers --- 4-dimensional --- "what might happen in the future?"



    Yielding / Obstinate:
    IF: yielding feelers --- 4-dimensional --- "Behave as you wish as long as it doesn't affect me."
    ET: yielding thinkers --- 4-dimensional --- "Believe what you like. I will work hard instead of discussing with you."
    IT: obstinate thinkers --- 4-dimensional --- "I know the truth. Believe it or prove otherwise!"
    EF: obstinate feelers --- 4-dimensional --- "I know how to behave ethically. Do it like that, too!"



    Static / Dynamic:
    EP: sanguine --- static perceiving function as base --- "A seems to be interesting, B seems to be boring."
    IJ: phlegmatic --- static judging function as base --- "A is right, B is wrong."
    EJ: choleric --- dynamic judging function as base --- "If we do A we will achieve B"
    IP: melancholic --- dynamic perceiving function as base --- "If A happens B will happen"



    Democratic / Aristocratic: (replaced with individualist / collectivist)
    Alphas: peaceful individualists --- valued . blocked with --- "I am what I am, you are what you are."
    Gammas: competitive individualists --- valued . blocked with --- "I am rich, beautiful and intelligent - you are poor, ugly and stupid."
    Betas: competitive collectivists --- valued . blocked with --- "We are the master race, you are subhumen."
    Deltas: peaceful collectivists --- valued . blocked with --- "We are friends, you are other people"

    Explanation:
    Si means peace, Se means competition.
    Judging personal relationships is Fi-related, seeing the big picture is Ne-related, seeing single aspects is Se-related
    For Alphas and Gammas Fi is blocked with Se so they rather see their relationship with every single human. That's why they are individualists.
    For Betas and Deltas Fi is blocked with Ne so they rather see the big picture, their relationship with a group. That's why they are collectivists.
    Last edited by JohnDo; 02-15-2010 at 05:31 AM.

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    Alpha is a strong fit for me, so I pretty much agree in that sense. I didn't read enough of the other stuff to really get a feel, but, hey, let's go with it for now.
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    I want to retype myself ENTp.



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    Tactical / Strategic:
    SJ: tactical traditionalist --- "Let's go by the book. Maybe we will achieve this or that goal"
    NP: tactical improvisator --- "Let's do what seems to work. Maybe we will achieve this or that goal"
    SP: improvising strategist --- "That's our goal! Let's go!"
    NJ: supreme strategist --- "That's our goal. Let's plan how to achieve it."


    Constructivist / Emotivist:
    TP: logical constructivist --- weak inert ethics, strong contact logic --- "XXX. That's the solution. Piss off."
    FJ: ethical constructivist --- strong inert ethics, weak contact logic --- "Sorry, I can't solve your problem. Maybe you should ask a TP. Have a nice day."
    TJ: logical emotivist --- weak contact ethics, strong inert logic --- "Don't worry, we'll find a solution. XXX. Now be happy and enjoy the rest of the evening."
    FP: ethical emotivist --- strong contact ethics, weak inert logic --- "Oh you are such a poor guy. That's so sad. That's really sad. I'd really like to help you. Don't worry. But that's so sad...."
    Last edited by JohnDo; 03-06-2010 at 11:41 AM.

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    Judicious / Decisive and Merry /Serious:
    Alpha: judicious ideologists --- --- "Maybe we can improve the world a bit."
    Beta: decisive ideologists --- --- "Let' conquer the world for we are the master race!"
    Gamma: decisive opportunists --- --- "Let's earn as much money as we possibly can!"
    Delta: judicious opportunists --- --- "Maybe we could do something useful."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    None of those terms are used in Socionics with their literal meaning, I'm surprised to see people still doing this mistake. Neither aristocratic, serious or decisive have the meaning in the dictionary, their descriptions are conclusive.
    I'm aware of that. Nevertheless, calling ENFj "carefree" or Deltas "aristocratic" sounds ridiculous. Why not use better terms?

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    Doesn't work, doesn't work, doesn't work. Messes up the whole system. You're also giving your own personal meaning to those dichotomies, which is not what was intended by the russians. Your definitions are not objective, some types are obviously "better" than others.
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    Reinin is not meant to describe a whole person, much like any of the dichotomies.

    The way the Reinin is derived, you will get club/temperament/quadra/etc from two of the reinin dichotomies so by combining two reinin you will get what you're calling a small group but is like a Club/Quadra/Temperament and other 4 type groupings.

    Also 1st tier dichotomies(Jungian dichotomies) have type that are just different as any Reinin.

    Take ESFJ vs INFJ, except for them being ethical, theses are such different people.

    I think what you've written is insightful but bear in mind that combination of dichotomies by their nature create clubs/quadra/temperament/etc... it's just logic.

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