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Thread: Pinocchio and Maritsa = same type?

  1. #1
    Creepy-cinq

    Default Pinocchio and Maritsa = same type?

    Having viewed posts from these two users over the last few weeks, I see quite a few similarities. Both seem relentlessly resolute in their perceptions and judgments, posting their views without providing substantive evidence.

    Would you assess them as the same type? ENTp or INFj? Are ENTps and INFjs similar in their approach during debates? Are Pinocchio and Maritsa some other type?

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    Jarno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post
    Having viewed posts from these two users over the last few weeks, I see quite a few similarities. Both seem relentlessly resolute in their perceptions and judgments, posting their views without providing substantive evidence.

    Would you assess them as the same type? ENTp or INFj? Are ENTps and INFjs similar in their approach during debates? Are Pinocchio and Maritsa some other type?
    I don't think it's type related, I see more people do same kind of behaviour. There are INFJ's and ENTP's who are more witholding in their judgements.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    Nope, not the same type. Both deserving of the same treatment, though.

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  5. #5
    Creepy-cinq

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    Interesting. Ok. I view this type of exchange as resoluteness. I'm don't entirely buy into Reinin dichotomies, but, resolute/reasonable (or decisive/judicious) I can appreciate.

    If I assume this set to be true,
    where resolute = LSI, EIE, IEI, SLE, ESI, LIE, ILI, SEE (Beta/Gamma or and valuers)
    reasonable = LII, ESE, ILE, SEI, EII, IEE, SLI, LSE (Alpha/Delta or and valuers)

    Then, neither Pinocchio nor Maritsa are the types they claim to be, based on their posting and argument styles. I can see where an ILE would be argumentative and love to debate. However, it seems to me there would be a threshold and at some point would not really care anymore. A more fun and pleasant ambiance would be preferred.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    The "resoluteness" is very easy for an Ne type to "fake" on the internet. When it's done with a smilie behind the utterance as if denoting facetiousness, it's in the range of behaviors that aren't in any way atypical of Ne.

    I do think Pinocchio types himself correctly and to suggest otherwise is to make the same mistake as he tends to: to understimate the ease with which people arrive at self-typings and the amount of subjective "evidence" behind these.

  7. #7
    Creepy-male

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    Being both logically confident and outspoken with your reasoning is not related to Judicious/Decisive. ILE makes perfect sense for Pinocchio, and I think that's about as sturdy reasoning as "He's argumentative and sure of himself so he has to be Se".

  8. #8
    Creepy-male

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    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    Being wrong and coming on too strong is not type related.
    You're retarded because I says so, hurrrr.

    *retypes SLE*

  9. #9
    Creepy-cinq

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolanzon View Post
    Being both logically confident and outspoken with your reasoning is not related to Judicious/Decisive.
    Being confident/outspoken vs resolute - do not mean the same thing, and they are not mutually exclusive. You can be confident/outspoken as well as resolute.

  10. #10
    Creepy-cinq

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    I do think Pinocchio types himself correctly and to suggest otherwise is to make the same mistake as he tends to: to understimate the ease with which people arrive at self-typings and the amount of subjective "evidence" behind these.
    True enough. I suppose to witness an ENTp put so much effort in proving someone wrong seems a bit too serious (another Reinin dichotomy) for this type. Reminiscent of EJ temperament. Perhaps it can be distilled to sub-type differences.

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    Jarno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    I do think Pinocchio types himself correctly and to suggest otherwise is to make the same mistake as he tends to: to understimate the ease with which people arrive at self-typings and the amount of subjective "evidence" behind these.
    yeah happens a lot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    May I call you somavision?

    So, somavision, you don't understand these dichotomies. The Resolute dichotomy has nothing to do with being resolute in debating, neither Serious deals with literal seriousness (whatever that means). Maybe you should investigate the respective elements, Serious is just valuing Te/Fi and Decisive is valuing Ni/Se, no other addition. Learn the basics of Socionics then come to talk ok?
    So... somavision = Nik = The Penetrator? This might be the forum's first case of a multiple identity crisis .

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    Jarno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobo View Post
    So... somavision = Nik = The Penetrator?
    pff yeah it confuses me.

    is it a way of trying to get more people on your side hehe...

  15. #15
    Creepy-cinq

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    May I call you somavision?
    No. I'm not somavision. However, he is one of my favorite posters.

    So, somavision, you don't understand these dichotomies. The Resolute dichotomy has nothing to do with being resolute in debating, neither Serious deals with literal seriousness (whatever that means). Maybe you should investigate the respective elements, Serious is just valuing Te/Fi and Decisive is valuing Ni/Se, no other addition. Learn the basics of Socionics then come to talk ok?
    Actually, I'm using definitions/interpretations from wikisocion. Based on your online behaviour as a whole (not just in debate), I would evaluate you as resolute and serious. In any case, I've already qualified my sentiment about Reinin dichotomies in this thread. I have investigated Reinin. What makes makes this theory quite unreliable is in the definitions and interpretations of each set. It's like VI theories - one trait can have different interpretations. I've seen Roberto Bernigni VId as ENTp and INTp.

    In any case, Pinocchio, I'm just putting my observations out there for discussion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post
    Perhaps it can be distilled to sub-type differences.
    Exactly. There are resolute Alphas, there are reasonable Betas. Most Reinin dichotomies have inappropriate names and trivial descriptions. They should definitely not be used for typing, especially not on the internet...

    If you want to get a more detailed understanding of types - read about DCNH, not about Reinin dichotomies...

  18. #18
    Creepy-cinq

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    You are both two of my favourite posters, too.
    I'm honoured. Sounds like a lovefest. We should all hold hands and skip into the sunset...

    I think me and Maritsa should team together for the new SADVI method - Serious Arguments for Decisive Visual Identification.

  19. #19
    Creepy-cinq

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDo View Post
    Exactly. There are resolute Alphas, there are reasonable Betas. Most Reinin dichotomies have inappropriate names and trivial descriptions. They should definitely not be used for typing, especially not on the internet...

    If you want to get a more detailed understanding of types - read about DCNH, not about Reinin dichotomies...
    I'll look into this further.

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    Hello, I am Maritsa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    Hi, martisa.
    We'll be in touch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post
    True enough. I suppose to witness an ENTp put so much effort in proving someone wrong seems a bit too serious (another Reinin dichotomy) for this type. Reminiscent of EJ temperament. Perhaps it can be distilled to sub-type differences.
    I have been saying this all along.
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



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    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    I think me and Maritsa should team together for the new SADVI method - Serious Arguments for Decisive Visual Identification.
    Ok, I'll pay that.
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



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    Oh god no. Please don't keep explaining similarities and differences in behaviour in terms of subtype!

  25. #25
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post
    No. I'm not somavision. However, he is one of my favorite posters.



    Actually, I'm using definitions/interpretations from wikisocion. Based on your online behaviour as a whole (not just in debate), I would evaluate you as resolute and serious. In any case, I've already qualified my sentiment about Reinin dichotomies in this thread. I have investigated Reinin. What makes makes this theory quite unreliable is in the definitions and interpretations of each set. It's like VI theories - one trait can have different interpretations. I've seen Roberto Bernigni VId as ENTp and INTp.

    In any case, Pinocchio, I'm just putting my observations out there for discussion.
    Just like somavision, thepenetrator and w/e else names he has, you're a fucking dick too.

  26. #26
    Creepy-cinq

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean View Post
    Oh god no. Please don't keep explaining similarities and differences in behaviour in terms of subtype!
    Why is this a problem? I think the DCNH system has merit, although, I 've not explored it in depth. It would help explain some of the trouble spots I have with Model A, Reinin, and my personal observations.

    Some people see themselves reflected neatly and immediately in one of the 16 types. For others, they struggle to find a fit, and move from one type to another 'trying them on' without success. One might argue it's because they don't understand the system. I don't think this is always the case. Theorists themselves have slightly different interpretations of each type. It's observed in type descriptions. I think a subtype system would help to explain environmental influences as well (family upbringing, cultural/ethnic differences etc).

    Model A is an elegant system. I personally think there are elements that need improvement.

  27. #27
    Creepy-cinq

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Just like somavision, thepenetrator and w/e else names he has, you're a fucking dick too.
    I'm not too fond of you either. So, it's settled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    May I call you somavision?

    So, somavision, you don't understand these dichotomies. The Resolute dichotomy has nothing to do with being resolute in debating, neither Serious deals with literal seriousness (whatever that means). Maybe you should investigate the respective elements, Serious is just valuing Te/Fi and Decisive is valuing Ni/Se, no other addition. Learn the basics of Socionics then come to talk ok?

    I have just read this... not me.
    IEE-Ne

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post
    Having viewed posts from these two users over the last few weeks, I see quite a few similarities. Both seem relentlessly resolute in their perceptions and judgments, posting their views without providing substantive evidence.

    Would you assess them as the same type? ENTp or INFj? Are ENTps and INFjs similar in their approach during debates? Are Pinocchio and Maritsa some other type?
    He is ISTp, but very calm and measured one; he must really know himself and meditate.

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    @somavision: ok.
    ---

    On the topic, Maritsa, I don't exclude we could be the same type, you are definitely an Ne Irrational, my second option for you after IEE is ILE. Nothing else I see possible, still between the two you seem to relate rather to Delta values - for example just the fact that you believe in a miraculous how-to in typing people make me think directly of a Serious type, who believe in methods rather than analysis.

    Just thinking about the retyping of Rick, for example, and I can almost confidently exclude any Rational typing.
    You just want me to be your dual don't you

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    I agree ENFp is a typing worthy of consideration.

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