Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: LSE Questions

  1. #1
    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    3,107
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default LSE Questions

    So, I'm trying to prove to myself that my stepmother is really LSE and that I'm not just being a whiny I-don't-like-my-stepparent-wah-wah-wah sort of person.

    So, LSEs, I would greatly appreciate it if you could answer some or all of these questions (no need to get to all of them, I just wanted a fairly wide range of questions; answer the ones you respond to strongly):

    Do you find that you have very specific ways of going about practical tasks (dishwashing, grocery shopping, cleaning, filling out paperwork)? Do you think that these methods might seem idiosyncratic to others while merely seeming "natural" or "intelligent" or "logical" to you? Do you expect others to do these practical tasks in these manners (once they've been explained, of course)? How do you feel when they miss details?

    Do you create systems for handling complex tasks, even if the task is relatively mundane or day-to-day? Does it irritate you when these systems are broken or not followed?

    How much importance do you place on respect, authority, etc.?

    Do others consider you somewhat inflexible on matters of social convention (not all social conventions, just ones that you particularly believe in)?

    Does it bother you when resources are not "taken care of" as they should be? For instance, wasting household items (toilet paper, soap, paper towels, etc.), wearing nicer clothes (that have to be dry cleaned, for instance) when less nice ones will do (that can be reused w/o washing, perhaps), not putting away CDs in the proper manner, or not returning books to a bookshelf, etc.

    Does lack of conscientiousness bother you? When someone forgets to do something they've said that they will do, or does most of but not all of a given task, how irritating do you find it?

    How much are you concerned with the cleanliness and orderliness of your living space? How much are you concerned with others' perceptions of your living space as clean or orderly? Do you adhere to the phrase "a place for everything and everything in its place"?

    Do you enjoy packing?

    Do you ever act silly? Can you describe what you acting silly is like? Do you feel more or less like yourself when you act silly?

    [adolescent rant]Finally, do you really think anybody ever looks at the baseboards in your house when they come over. 'Cause I promise you, if your party doesn't suck balls, they won't be looking at the freaking baseboards. [/adolescent rant]

    Next we'll get to the thread about whether my mom is really EIE or IEE and whether or not she's in a ten-year relationship with her conflictor. I'm fairly settled on the rest of my family members (IEI me, LII dad small chance LSI, SEE brother one, IEI brother 2).
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    1,276
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Yes, I think your list can apply to LSEs.

    You know, this actually kind of highlights something you said in another thread about descriptions applying to more than one type of person, because I'd describe 90% of the LSIs I know in the same manner. The difference is, LSEs and I are (mostly) on the same page and have similar ways of thinking about things, and LSIs and I aren't. LSEs understand my logic and work with me, LSIs think I'm being arbitrary and nonsensical. Hence why betas find LSIs flexible, and I don't. My reasons for doing something aren't logical to them, and it causes them no end of annoyance. But I have no problems being understood or working with my quadra members.

    That being said, all rationals have standards I don't comprehend or adhere to, and it pisses them off - even EIIs and LSEs. They can't rest until the world is in order..
    IEE

  3. #3
    Darn Socks Director Abbie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Southwest USA
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    6,723
    Mentioned
    235 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Do you find that you have very specific ways of going about practical tasks (dishwashing, grocery shopping, cleaning, filling out paperwork)?
    YES

    Do you think that these methods might seem idiosyncratic to others while merely seeming "natural" or "intelligent" or "logical" to you?
    I don't think so, but I know so.

    Do you expect others to do these practical tasks in these manners (once they've been explained, of course)?
    Yes, unless their methods are just as efficient and thorough.

    How do you feel when they miss details?
    Slightly miffed, but not very. It's not like they can't try again.

    Do you create systems for handling complex tasks, even if the task is relatively mundane or day-to-day?
    Yes

    Does it irritate you when these systems are broken or not followed?
    Only when I'm not warned beforehand.

    How much importance do you place on respect, authority, etc.?
    Respect is important. Authority only exists with respect.

    Do others consider you somewhat inflexible on matters of social convention (not all social conventions, just ones that you particularly believe in)?
    I don't know.

    Does it bother you when resources are not "taken care of" as they should be? For instance, wasting household items (toilet paper, soap, paper towels, etc.), wearing nicer clothes (that have to be dry cleaned, for instance) when less nice ones will do (that can be reused w/o washing, perhaps), not putting away CDs in the proper manner, or not returning books to a bookshelf, etc.
    Yes, but that's to be expected, so it doesn't bother me too much.

    Does lack of conscientiousness bother you? When someone forgets to do something they've said that they will do, or does most of but not all of a given task, how irritating do you find it?
    Very. If they say they'll do something and don't, they are a liar.

    How much are you concerned with the cleanliness and orderliness of your living space? How much are you concerned with others' perceptions of your living space as clean or orderly? Do you adhere to the phrase "a place for everything and everything in its place"?
    Sounds good to me, though it's more important that I know where everything is than that people think I do.

    Do you enjoy packing?
    Sure.

    Do you ever act silly?
    Yes

    Can you describe what you acting silly is like?
    Making faces and saying rediculous things.

    Do you feel more or less like yourself when you act silly?
    Yes

    Finally, do you really think anybody ever looks at the baseboards in your house when they come over. 'Cause I promise you, if your party doesn't suck balls, they won't be looking at the freaking baseboards.
    I'd say people are more likely to look at the baseboards during a party than the ceiling. But if you think they're more likely to examine the latter, feel free to scrub it instead.

    ESTj
    1w2 sp/so 1-2-6
    Brilliand's Younger Sister
    Squishy's Older Sister

    Johari Nohari

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

  4. #4
    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    3,107
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tiny_dancer View Post
    Yes, I think your list can apply to LSEs.

    You know, this actually kind of highlights something you said in another thread about descriptions applying to more than one type of person, because I'd describe 90% of the LSIs I know in the same manner. The difference is, LSEs and I are (mostly) on the same page and have similar ways of thinking about things, and LSIs and I aren't. LSEs understand my logic and work with me, LSIs think I'm being arbitrary and nonsensical. Hence why betas find LSIs flexible, and I don't. My reasons for doing something aren't logical to them, and it causes them no end of annoyance. But I have no problems being understood or working with my quadra members.

    That being said, all rationals have standards I don't comprehend or adhere to, and it pisses them off - even EIIs and LSEs. They can't rest until the world is in order..
    lol. You sort of hit the nail on the head with your response. I was honestly afraid that she was beta 'cause you could totally reinterpret most of those things as Ti-behaviors, but then I thought that because they tend to be so localized, specific and focused on making practical routines work the best that they can (optimization), that it pointed more towards Te blocked with Si than anything Se related, which I feel would be striving to go forward rather than making sure that what we have now works the best it can. The importance of authority thing seemed especially Ti and Se, but that could just be culturally encoded. I suspect her father was beta, actually, which probably sucked for her.

    I guess it really all has to do with the vibe that we're responding to and the way people send and receive information rather than individual actions.

    Anyway, getting along with people or not isn't the responsibility of socionics regardless. And we honestly get along very well on a day-to-day basis, it's just that I can't *really* be myself or share my real opinions around LSEs in general, which is OK; it's just life!

    Also, I still want to know what a silly LSE looks like.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

  5. #5
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    East Coast West Coast Dirty South
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,826
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    Do you find that you have very specific ways of going about practical tasks (dishwashing, grocery shopping, cleaning, filling out paperwork)?
    Often times, yes. . .
    Do you think that these methods might seem idiosyncratic to others while merely seeming "natural" or "intelligent" or "logical" to you?
    Very much so.
    Do you expect others to do these practical tasks in these manners (once they've been explained, of course)?
    Yes, but I'm learning to vary my expectations depending on the person (maturity, interest level, socionics type, etc)
    How do you feel when they miss details?
    Depends on my expectations
    The thing is, when it comes to the mechanics of physically doing most things, I realize I am so much more efficient-minded than most people. It's something that I've just come to realize. The way to organize a task is something I naturally think about. Sometimes, however, I miss certain ways of conceptualizing things that makes my efficiency not oriented in the best way, but that's an easy connection to needing Ne, you could say.

    As far as teaching other people or instructing them, it annoys me if I take special time to show them something and they don't really pay attention or care, or continuously disregard it. But I'm becoming more cynical or perhaps more sympathetic - whatever way you want to look at it - because I'm beginning to understand that most people will never see things the way I do, for better or worse - and related (to me) most people will not go about tasks in such a way.



    Do you create systems for handling complex tasks, even if the task is relatively mundane or day-to-day? Does it irritate you when these systems are broken or not followed?
    I don't know if I create systems per se, but I tend to find mechanisms to do things both efficiently and with a consistent result. I will support those mechanisms for both efficiency and a consistent result unless I can see something that creates a better result. I am less concerned about maintaining a system then getting the best result. I don't think I'm as "conservative" as LSEs are portrayed as, because I do take risks in terms of trying to see what works or not, but I don't like taking arbirtary or pointless risks or changes, especially if they are based on valuing Fe.

    How much importance do you place on respect, authority, etc.?
    Uh, I place a lot of importance on respect. Authority as far as positions go is kind of arbitrary I suppose. (I'm trying to think about this in the context of how your stepmother would relate to you). I don't think I'd try to tell my kid to do something because "I'm your father and I said so" or "you should listen to me", those seem like kind of base forms of reasoning. I would be concerned about disrespect because I don't like that attitude in other people, and especially someone I was responsible for had to take care of, I wouldn't want them to be developing a tendency towards enjoying disrespecting other people. I'd be very focused on understanding why things are important.


    Do others consider you somewhat inflexible on matters of social convention (not all social conventions, just ones that you particularly believe in)?
    No, but I think most LSEs are. I'm unusual in that I study different cultures by choice (and also circumstances), so I tend to have been exposed to a great deal of different things. I will comment on things that I 'don't like' or think are ultimately wrong or inefficient or unjust or exploitative, though. I see most LSEs as being somewhat set in whatever system of belief they have, though, and it seems to often be related to their family or heritage in some way.


    Does it bother you when resources are not "taken care of" as they should be? For instance, wasting household items (toilet paper, soap, paper towels, etc.), wearing nicer clothes (that have to be dry cleaned, for instance) when less nice ones will do (that can be reused w/o washing, perhaps), not putting away CDs in the proper manner, or not returning books to a bookshelf, etc.
    I'm very concerned about the use of resources - it's a major part of how I go about life. I don't really care what people wear and I wouldn't make people dry clean their clothing (or spend that much on mine unless I was loaded); I can take care of my clothing fairly well on my own -- but I do appreciate people who put some effort into dressing well and being clean, etc. Not putting clutter things away depends. It depends on my relation to the material. At present, my room isn't immaculate, but there is some sense of organization.

    I really don't like wasting soap or towels or anything like that. I think in typical LSE fashion it's about a sense of realizing how details affect things. But for me it's also related to creating waste and being sort of oblivious to what goes into those resources - I don't like things used flippantly. But I'm more likely to splurge if I'm celebrating something or in the mood to do so.


    Does lack of conscientiousness bother you? When someone forgets to do something they've said that they will do, or does most of but not all of a given task, how irritating do you find it?
    Eh, again, it depends. I'm learning to be more accepting of this, because people just don't go about things like I do. It depends on how business oriented the affair is, and what kind of significance there is to it. If it is related to something 'professional' or very important, then yes, it absolutely bothers me - because I see that person as being someone who won't produce a necessary result, or has trouble doing so. I'm more lax when it comes to my family because I've had plenty of experience with people who aren't the way I am.

    How much are you concerned with the cleanliness and orderliness of your living space? How much are you concerned with others' perceptions of your living space as clean or orderly? Do you adhere to the phrase "a place for everything and everything in its place"?
    I don't care what other people care about my living space - or I do, depending on how you look at it; I care about it in terms of how they see what values I have. I am particularly unconcerned with maintaining an image I think someone else would find appealing, but I don't like it if someone comes in and sees my place as being really messy, because that's not what I consider welcoming or pleasant or how I really like to be. I tend to, ideally, like my areas fairly organized and clean. It's more relaxing to me, it's more comforting to me.

    Do you enjoy packing?
    Hm, maybe. I like organizing usually. I don't know what kind of packing you're talking about. I like some kinds of packing a lot (. . .).

    Do you ever act silly? Can you describe what you acting silly is like? Do you feel more or less like yourself when you act silly?
    I like it when i can be silly, very much. But that requires a few things: that the business aspect of whatever it is, those things that are critical for success or progress - those things are taken care of. Also, I'm very partial to my relationship towards people: it is harder for me to be totally silly around people I don't know, or social environments I'm not comfortable in or am not used to. It typically takes me time to get used to things, unless there are things like good solid/peaceful relationships that sort of override the time factor. If those things are in order, then I can be very much 'silly'. Things are going well when I can make lots of jokes, including very earthy ones at times. I enjoy being able to have both serious talks and positive relations and fun - but I feel like I'm not very skilled at actively creating the relational aspect that is required for me to be that way. I feel most myself when I can have a full range of interactions with someone, from joking to seriousness, and feel like they really understood me at all parts of the spectrum. I'm generally not silly or jokey around people I don't like or situations I'm uncomfortable with.

    [adolescent rant]Finally, do you really think anybody ever looks at the baseboards in your house when they come over. 'Cause I promise you, if your party doesn't suck balls, they won't be looking at the freaking baseboards. [/adolescent rant]
    I tend to notice little details, marks, cracks, etc very easily. I notice lost keys, or potential situations where something could break, loose screws, etc, all the time. It sounds like your person is very image focused in regard to the actual concerns. . . but, I think I could see an LSE having an awareness of those kinds of things, even though they have different 'themes' to those reasonings (enneagram differences, cultural differences, etc)
    .
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  6. #6
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    East Coast West Coast Dirty South
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,826
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    lol. You sort of hit the nail on the head with your response. I was honestly afraid that she was beta 'cause you could totally reinterpret most of those things as Ti-behaviors, but then I thought that because they tend to be so localized, specific and focused on making practical routines work the best that they can (optimization), that it pointed more towards Te blocked with Si than anything Se related, which I feel would be striving to go forward rather than making sure that what we have now works the best it can. The importance of authority thing seemed especially Ti and Se, but that could just be culturally encoded. I suspect her father was beta, actually, which probably sucked for her.

    I guess it really all has to do with the vibe that we're responding to and the way people send and receive information rather than individual actions.

    Anyway, getting along with people or not isn't the responsibility of socionics regardless. And we honestly get along very well on a day-to-day basis, it's just that I can't *really* be myself or share my real opinions around LSEs in general, which is OK; it's just life!

    Also, I still want to know what a silly LSE looks like.
    From your questions, I either get an E3 LSE vibe or an LSI-ish vibe.
    ... OR ... believe it or not, an ESE-Fe vibe.

    I recently encountered an ESE-Fe who was so driven (beta influence from parents. . . ) and so 'molded' into being professional and appearing a certain way that she seemed LSI. But I found out she was not so after seeing her in stressful situations --> major Fe focus, and no skill with Ti.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  7. #7
    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    3,107
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Ah! There are really people who notice baseboards? I swear, I've never looked at one of those *in my life* outside of being forced to attend to them for some household chore reason. The only thing that comes close is that I look for crown molding sometimes if I'm with someone who's considering buying/renting a new place, but never once they're actually in the house.

    I'm pretty confident in LSE for my stepmom, and E3(w2) sounds pretty darn accurate, although I'll have to consider and confirm. I honestly don't mind be conflictors so much; it's certainly helped me learn to get along pretty well with deltas in general, although I'd still hang myself if I had an LSE boss (kidding. probably). I'll consider ESE, but the vibe is very different from the ESEs I know (and actually one ESE I know hates her with the fires of a thousand suns, but that's more to do with the few times they've interacted than socionics). The vibs is so different from an LSI that I'd be surprised if she were LSI. But I guess I can read some descriptions and think about it (hey, it's better than doing homework, right?)

    Interesting about the respect and authority bits. I don't think LSEs are into authority all that much, but the things you said about respect fit my stepmom pretty well, I think.

    Very. If they say they'll do something and don't, they are a liar.
    lol. That's definitely how I'd imagine an LSE responding to that question. I suppose this sort of if, then statement is characteristic of LSEs, even though it's something I generally associate with Ti. I should investigate the differences some.
    As far as teaching other people or instructing them, it annoys me if I take special time to show them something and they don't really pay attention or care, or continuously disregard it.
    lol. That describes my exact reaction to every single practical skill the woman has tried to teach me. Especially the not caring bit. Sometimes I'd feign being something other than indifferent, and it was just unpleasant. I'd like to say she saw through it, but I don't think she did, unless I did a particularly poor job of pretending to pay attention.


    Some more questions (again, respond to whatever strikes your fancy, and responses from those with experience with LSEs are also appreciated):

    When you enter a given situation, do you begin by assuming respectful behavior towards a person and retracting that if given reason, or do you begin by assuming more lax behavior towards a person and behaving more respectfully if given reason?

    Ryu, I noticed you mentioned something about "maturity". Could you (or Director Abbie or any other deltas) expand on your concept of or thoughts about maturity? I still remember someone's delta statement on betas (I think it was you, Ryu), that was "ignore the noisy teenagers," and honestly, I kinda liked that characterization. If I had my way, I'd be a noisy teenager forever.

    How do you react to days when you're in a hurry or have a lot to do in a small amount of time?

    Can you elaborate on how you are interested in the "use of resources" and how this impacts your life?

    How do you feel or react when you fail at a practical task (fixing a problem entrusted to you, picking up a given item from somewhere, finding a given destination, etc). What sorts of reactions make you feel better, and what sorts of reactions make you feel worse?

    Would you say that you focus on how details impact the big picture, or do you care more about details for their own sake, or both? Or some other reason?

    Can you give an example or explanation of your leadership style (I don't necessarily mean domestically; I'm particular interested in business/corporate situations or perhaps small group projects).


    If you're annoyed or bored by all these questions, by all means, don't answer them, but thank you for taking the time to do so thus far. And if you ever have any IEI questions (not that you would, but just in case), feel free to ask!
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

  8. #8
    Darn Socks Director Abbie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Southwest USA
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    6,723
    Mentioned
    235 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    When you enter a given situation, do you begin by assuming respectful behavior towards a person and retracting that if given reason, or do you begin by assuming more lax behavior towards a person and behaving more respectfully if given reason?
    It depends on the person and whether they look professional or sloppy and friendly or grumpy. It could vary from walking into a room, having a fun conversation with someone and offering to knit them a pair of socks to walking into a room and slapping someone across the face for being a grouchy sleazeball.

    Ryu, I noticed you mentioned something about "maturity". Could you (or Director Abbie or any other deltas) expand on your concept of or thoughts about maturity? I still remember someone's delta statement on betas (I think it was you, Ryu), that was "ignore the noisy teenagers," and honestly, I kinda liked that characterization. If I had my way, I'd be a noisy teenager forever.
    Maturity and respect go hand-in-hand. Some people respect strength. I don't; I respect self-control. I never wanted to be a teenager. I never acted like one. I haven't fit in since I was a preteen, and I probably won't fit in until I'm 20.

    How do you react to days when you're in a hurry or have a lot to do in a small amount of time?
    I prioritize. If I haven't made promises about something and it can be put off, I try to. I don't waste time eating meals. It's illogical, but I don't do my tasks in the order they need done. I do them in the order I'm in the mood to do them in.
    Actually, this is an unusual scenario since I make a point not to overburden myself and to leave myself some flexible time every day. I don't like my schedule interupted, but sometimes people don't understand that. I set aside a few hours a day for schedule disruptment.

    Can you elaborate on how you are interested in the "use of resources" and how this impacts your life?
    I believe the best way to explain my view on resources is in the way I use paper. When I make cats (paper cutouts; it's more complex than it sounds), i start with the largest size, then the medium, than the smallest on one paper and have very little white left over on the sheet. When I made heart decorations for the college, I cut out big hearts from paper then used the scraps from that to make medium hearts to decorate the large hearts, then I cut out tiny hearts from what was left to make a collage. But I'm not an SLI; I don't grind the tiny scraps into a paste and use it to make new paper. I throw them away.

    How do you feel or react when you fail at a practical task (fixing a problem entrusted to you, picking up a given item from somewhere, finding a given destination, etc)?
    If I can do it, I do it and don't fail. If I can't do it, I don't even try. I'll find a different way to accomplish my goal or get someone else to do it. If I don't know whether I can do it, I'll try until someone comes along who I know can.

    What sorts of reactions make you feel better, and what sorts of reactions make you feel worse?
    I like it when people react with appreciation. I do not like it when people react with disgust. I like it when people give me lists to choose from. I do not like it when a question is so open-ended I don't know what the real question is.

    Would you say that you focus on how details impact the big picture, or do you care more about details for their own sake, or both? Or some other reason?
    It depends. In some things (like food) I'd say the first one. Food starts as the big picture, then is broken down. With knitting, on the other hand, I individually knit each stitch. The details form the big picture, so the latter is more appropriate.

    Can you give an example or explanation of your leadership style (I don't necessarily mean domestically; I'm particular interested in business/corporate situations or perhaps small group projects)?
    In school I never liked doing group projects. If someone else took control of the group, I would do the part assigned to me but refused to take any credit for anything else. I didn't want associated with inferior work. What's worse: when people work in groups, teachers expect them to do a better job. I do the same kind of work regardless of who happens to be standing around.
    As far as leadership, I tell people what needs done and expect them to do it unless I said I or someone else was already going to.

    If you're annoyed or bored by all these questions, by all means, don't answer them, but thank you for taking the time to do so thus far. And if you ever have any IEI questions (not that you would, but just in case), feel free to ask!
    I have free time. If I understand the question and it's not offensive, I'm glad to answer it.

    ESTj
    1w2 sp/so 1-2-6
    Brilliand's Younger Sister
    Squishy's Older Sister

    Johari Nohari

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

  9. #9
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    East Coast West Coast Dirty South
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,826
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    When you enter a given situation, do you begin by assuming respectful behavior towards a person and retracting that if given reason, or do you begin by assuming more lax behavior towards a person and behaving more respectfully if given reason?
    I don't assume anything about them. I tend to err on being suspicious of people until I see something that is, to me, revealing of their true intentions and their true nature - this usually results to some sort of stress or decision making process where I see how they operate.
    I'm generally polite and somewhat reserved when it comes to developing relationships, especially in a working environment. But I'm actually increasingly confident about being overtly benevolent with everyone, really. Having some access to a solid relationship helps a lot with this.

    Also, I will likely not be happy at all if I think there are logistical or pragmatic problems at hand, whatever the situation is. Unless I feel like someone is trying to distract me with them, they are what I'd focus on before relational stuff.


    Ryu, I noticed you mentioned something about "maturity". Could you (or Director Abbie or any other deltas) expand on your concept of or thoughts about maturity? I still remember someone's delta statement on betas (I think it was you, Ryu), that was "ignore the noisy teenagers," and honestly, I kinda liked that characterization. If I had my way, I'd be a noisy teenager forever.
    "Maturity and respect go hand-in-hand. Some people respect strength. I don't; I respect self-control. I never wanted to be a teenager. I never acted like one. I haven't fit in since I was a preteen, and I probably won't fit in until I'm 20." - I felt the same way as DA when I was younger - I didn't fit in with 'young people'.

    I also, by nature of who I am and my involvements, relate maturity to such things as: actually pursuing a goal vs goofing off; being able to handle setbacks and stay focused on certain things; being proactive vs whining and complaining; and the ability to understand different people and cultures. I associate maturity with awareness, often. And although I see more pleasing tendencies with deltas, I don't actually think other quadras are totally less mature; I think maturity (or also being a high functioning or developed person) is somewhat rare and not particular to socionics/quadras.

    How do you react to days when you're in a hurry or have a lot to do in a small amount of time?
    I don't like this, and I try to avoid it. I can sometimes just blow things off that I don't think are important because I feel sometimes time is a constraint on me; I don't react well to things that are dictated upon me. I've become very good at this, actually, which is both very powerful and somewhat scary. If these are things I've decided to undertake, I'll likely be very precise in my expenditure of time; if they are things I haven't chosen to undertake I'll undermine their ability to influence me.

    Also, how I react to other people in such situations has changed a lot. I'm learning to be more lenient with others, as I've said before, because sometimes it's just not worth it to try to force people to do certain things, or put pressure on others. I've learned some people just don't care. And I've learned more how to deal with this by focusing not only on what I can do but also what is realistic for others to do.

    If I am am entranced by something, then I can be very focused and it can be difficult to distract me or take me away from something until I decide I'm finished. That can be me entirely focused on doing things in a short amount of time, or, me entirely focused on things and disregarding time, if I choose to.


    Can you elaborate on how you are interested in the "use of resources" and how this impacts your life?
    If you dare to look for it, a long time ago, when I thought I was LII, I wrote on this forum about how I measured the length of the steps I take and am very aware of how much energy I am putting into my stride, and what the output is. That's just one example but represents a sort of focus I have with inputs and outputs, and what yields what result. Basically, I'm that way about most things. I seem to be a mixture of extremely pragmatic, production oriented thinking and also sensory pleasure, comfort, indulgence and enjoyment.

    The production orientation has to do with pretty much everything, from how I spend my time to how the different states (countries) in the world spend their resources. I'm very aware of how money is spent and how power is spent, how power is used, and who and what is benefiting from it. I notice what things are being encouraged, what things are discourages, and what factors go into these things. I'm focused on resource expenditure. I always know how much money I have, pretty much, and I don't keep track of it because it's the right thing to do, I instinctively keep it in mind because it's related to what power I have and what options I have. Take that and apply it to pretty much all resources that affect whatever operation you want to talk about.

    I could go on but I imagine that's plenty.

    How do you feel or react when you fail at a practical task (fixing a problem entrusted to you, picking up a given item from somewhere, finding a given destination, etc)?
    Sometimes it's devastating, if people are depending upon me. I really don't like letting people who I care about down. Even things that aren't a big deal sometimes bother me a lot.

    In general though I'm fairly objective about what I can and can't do. I tend to want to be able to do more than I can, an especially if something is pleasing to someone I like, I will learn how to do that thing very well. But I also understand that failure is necessary at times, and I don't mind trial and error. I think it's important to know what doesn't work, or what is wrong, or bad, as well as knowing all the good and positive things.

    I don't like failure of any kind in general, really. But I think its kind of silly to get hung up on things that didn't work out - learn from it and move on.


    What sorts of reactions make you feel better, and what sorts of reactions make you feel worse?
    "I like it when people react with appreciation. I do not like it when people react with disgust. I like it when people give me lists to choose from. I do not like it when a question is so open-ended I don't know what the real question is." - I agree with all of that.

    The worst reaction is a bunch of Fe, quite frankly. It's like a bunch of smoke, and even people who use a lot of Fe and are well meaning sometimes throw me because I just don't know what they mean. I don't know if it's a sincere remark or them trying to present some mood or image, and I don't really know for sure until I "know them" well.

    Other things I don't like are very Ni-based reactions that sound like "well because this has happened before, this is the way things are, and this is how it will be". Or, "you should already know this". I admit, I've had a sort of 'you should already know this' attitude myself, and I don't think that is good. But, the way some ILIs do it (supervision) is particularly annoying. To me there's something different about pouring a sort of temporal factor on things, when it seems like there is no room for possible change in the future - different from, say, just an LSI or fellow rational type being an asshole about the supremacy of their way of thinking or that I'm wrong.

    My preferred reaction is honesty, and directness. If I'm doing something you don't like, just tell me. Don't beat around the bush, don't try to adjust yourself FIRST, without telling me what's going on. Just let me know and give honest but not dramatic feedback - because that way I feel like I can make the best decision about whether to change myself or not. I don't like it when I have to chase answers out of people or interrogate people, but I will do that if I feel like I have to. I can be an asshole, a mean person, and easily make people dislike me. But I also know that such doesn't really produce good fruit in the long term. I get along well with people from all types who are actually honest with me - and people who are willing to understand that initially things can be awkward when getting to know someone. But honesty and directness is very important.

    I enjoy it most when there is sincere appreciation for myself or my labors... but I am rather turned off by flattery or over-appreciation of things. And don't ever try to tell me I did a good job on something when I say I didn't, it is simply very annoying to me. As haughty as this sounds "I alone determine the quality of what I do"; so, if you want to change something, it's a good idea to talk to me about how I'm interpreting and measuring things things, as opposed to what I'm actually labeling things. (That's a big key for dealing with LSEs, I think. . . . or at least one like me.)

    Finally, although I touched on it before, I really don't like it when people try to be extra nice to me or smile more to me in order to 'win me over' or 'gain my favor'. It doesn't work, and smart people, or people who really care about me, realize this and cease it (that is so for all types, including beta NFs - I have two great IEI friends who are that way). Annoying people or people who don't really care about my preferences, tend to pour it on. The worst is people who do that sort of thing out of insecurity or out of some sort of status or approval seeking-ness. It makes it hard for me to respect them... and yet some people eat that up, it seems.


    Would you say that you focus on how details impact the big picture, or do you care more about details for their own sake, or both? Or some other reason?
    A lot of this I covered in my talk about resources.
    I've come to realize that I have my own take on details and the big picture... and oddly/fittingly enough, I've come to realize that it is pretty much the complement to how my dual sees things. So my real answer to your question is not really in the format of your question, but more like: I'm just accustomed to different people seeing 'details' and 'big picture' things on different ways, so I don't have a particular opinion about my own.
    I know I am very results-oriented, and I know there are things I don't see, especially when it comes to the interpersonal realm.


    Can you give an example or explanation of your leadership style (I don't necessarily mean domestically; I'm particular interested in business/corporate situations or perhaps small group projects)?
    I don't really relate to DA's comments, although I have grown to fiercely dislike working with people I don't think are competent, or even more so, who I don't think are committed to doing a good job. What is most important to me is a sincere desire to do something well - I can teach people or work together with them to figure out how to do it. But if you don't give a damn or are halfassing, just forget it and don't bother. I do not like dead weight, it inhibits efficiency and lower performance.

    My "leadership style", heh, I could write a lot about that too because I think about 'leadership' a lot. I'm fairly objective in terms of assessing results, and I set the bar really high usually. I don't have patience for people who don't really give a damn- but if you show me you care I'll work as hard as you want to. I will gravitate to positions of power because I tend to not think other people are doing a good job, or I want to ensure things go a certain way. I do not actually need to be a leader, but I will basically push everyone possible towards doing something well, whatever my position is. I am very troubled if I don't think the group is actually going in the right direction - I will either commandeer it or abandon it.

    I do not feel it is my responsibility to get people emotionally engaged in being successful, but I will nurture it if it is present. I do not like a heavy focus on "Fe" or emotions, but I do like intensity, and I love displays of commitment and hard work - sincere ones. Fake ones turn me off. I will go the distance with anyone who wants to, and I really appreciate people who are sincerely committed to good results and honesty.

    I've learned to value F types for being more people oriented and I will follow their lead or take their cues; I've learned how to interpret Fe input, and ethical input from different quadras, and other such things.

    I seem to be more competent at administration and organizational affairs than most others.


    If you're annoyed or bored by all these questions, by all means, don't answer them, but thank you for taking the time to do so thus far. And if you ever have any IEI questions (not that you would, but just in case), feel free to ask!
    I think it will be more of a task to read my response.
    I took the opportunity to think out loud and even reflect on things about me, so, I think I may have benefited just as much or more than you



    PS: There is something that struck me as somewhat related to the above...
    Sometimes I am extremely cold and business-minded, but other times I'm very warm, even overflowing and very much influencing the whole nature of the group. If I'm colder and business minded, it is not USUALLY how I prefer to be - sometimes it is because I'm actually under stress or not feeling socially/relationally comfortable with the situation (that could mean there is a lot of Fe and sarcasm and AMAZING THINGS going on that I don't really get, or it could mean that I simply don't know anyone and don't know if I want to get to know anyone/ can get to know anyone there). But, sometime, I am just cold/business minded or reserved because it's what kind of mood I'm in.

    I really tend to light up around people, and draw a lot of energy from them (I don't get tired around people I like or things I like doing, ever). That's my default state, really, unless I don't know ANYBODY, which is more uncomfortable. I like to get to know people so I can interact with them and be more cavalier (Carefree and nonchalant; jaunty.) about things. I'm most comfortable when I don't feel threatened, and what influences that is both how I'm doing intrapersonally and what other outside factors there are (strange/'threatening' people, logistical problems, etc).
    Last edited by UDP; 02-14-2010 at 08:49 AM.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •