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Thread: The case for me as anything other than ISFp

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    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    Default The case for me as anything other than ISFp

    Thank you Arctures, you have been too kind.

    In recent months, I have been going to a college that has demanded me to think in a more "logical" manner, logical in the common use of it. I now think of things in a much more A --> B manner, if this is always true, then this should also be true. This being said, I also am not afraid to use absolutes anymore, such as "You are wrong", "This is stupid", etc. I personally feel this is part of my growth as an individual. SEIs can do this when they are confronted by an increasingly bright crowd, right?

    Epheremos accuses me of being an Fi valuer. Does anyone see any credence to this?

    I must post a video some day. I have not changed in real life in the slightest other than what I said above, but I feel my writing is much more rigorous and therefore more cold.
    Last edited by Mediator Kam; 02-07-2010 at 09:09 AM.
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    Ha, no worries, mate. Eph might discredit this statement as mere clique-ism, but I'm more sure of you being SEI than myself. That and you're a pimp. P I M P!
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    Kamajama: I'm 99% sure u r SEI
    If not, IEI
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamajama View Post
    This being said, I also am not afraid to use absolutes anymore, such as "You are wrong", "This is stupid", etc. I personally feel this is part of my growth as an individual. SEIs can do this when they are confronted by an increasingly bright crowd, right?
    Is this really how xEI grow? If so, I think I better understand how I supervise/conflict. I'm extremely quick to correct absolute statements without even thinking about it. It hurts to let them stand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    It was not an accusation, but a deduction. Well not a complete one, but some clues in that thread.
    You can't have an incomplete deduction.

    I've always been under the impression that kamajama is SEI. Admittedly I haven't given it much thought though, so my opinion is basically worthless.
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    I find the claim that kamajama is anything but SEI extraordinary. He's one of the old guard... Pinocchio, you type him SEI over him caring about the people around him? I just said in another thread that this was related to Democratic - SF, specifically! It's rather overboard to say that Merry types don't care about other people.

    EDIT: Apparently this post resulted from a misinterpretation of Pinocchio's words.
    Last edited by Brilliand; 02-09-2010 at 11:48 PM.



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    Perhaps Kama is an sx/so in the enneagram, and that's why he seems to be so concerned with his relationships with people? Or it's just the sx instinct manifesting itself in general with him.

    And I agree with what Brilliad said as well; with the Democratic thing and stuff.

    I have talked to him a lot on AIM, and I relate to him a lot. Even the way that we communicate is shockingly similar. I don't really get Fi from him.
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    Currently God Brilliand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    Watch what you put into my mouth!!

    1. Point me where I typed him as SEI for that specific reason - caring for people.
    Here is what I interpreted as that:

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    You seem to value very much your relationships with people, to be proactive towards them and value how meaningfully you relate to someone or the reverse, which is specific to Fi types but atypical for Alpha SFs.
    Apologies if I interpreted it wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    2. Point me where did I say that Merry types don't care about other people no matter what, so out of any context.
    This is related to the same blurb that I quoted above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    3. I'm interested in the post you talked about that, if you can point me to it as well...
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tml#post611425

    I should maybe not have used an exclamation point there... it was meant to indicate shock, not insistence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    This phrase resumes most likely what I said and think: SEIs are not interested in helping others, they don't have have a such goals in life, but they do this naturally and spontaneously with people they see in need and find sympathetic.
    Not only that he didn't relate to this, but the ones who I typed as Alpha SF did, BionicGoat, Gulanzon and Rubicon as expected. I didn't have an opinion on Rubicon's type previously, I wasn't sure if she was SEI or IEI.

    Can't you read words like "proactive" or "goals", Brilliand? These are what makes the difference, I didn't use them for nothing, please use the context and the whole meaning.
    The phrase with those words in it read to me like an appositive, so I assumed that the sentence would mean the same thing without them. Thank you for clarifying.



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    Pinnochio, you should post a thread about all the people who you think are mistyped, and have it include your typing of them and rationale why. It is of your opinion that a large chunk of members hare are mistyped, and I'm curious to know why specifically. I think it would prove to be an interesting read at the very least, and potentially informative.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
    Pinnochio, you should post a thread about all the people who you think are mistyped, and have it include your typing of them and rationale why. It is of your opinion that a large chunk of members hare are mistyped, and I'm curious to know why specifically. I think it would prove to be an interesting read at the very least, and potentially informative.
    I agree. It would be interesting to see if there are any patterns that emerge, so as to get a firmer understanding of your (Pinocchio's) reasoning behind these things.
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    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    Pinnochio, none of what I said about college had anything to do with your typing of me. I was simply saying that I feel I am changing, and your fresh typing of me would support that change.

    However, relationships have always been important for me. I have no problems making friends, people I can talk to about superficial things like school and how we are both doing. In high school, I knew about 60 people. One day, someone alerted to me to the fact that I was on speaking terms with a ton of people, the type of people you say hi to in the hall. I never thought knowing lots of people was out of the ordinary.

    In college, the same exact thing happened without me noticing. I began to talk to lots of people and get on speaking terms. One day, another SEI, I think she is prolly Si subtype or something, she was like "How do you know so many people?" as we are walking around and people are saying hey to me and vice versa. It was at that moment that I realized the dangers of Fe.

    However, those type of relationships are not too important. I value quality vs quantity any day, but I seem to be very good at the quantity side.
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    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    I find quite nearly everything you are saying to be circumstantial. Comparing finger length to type is laughable.

    In the first one, you described SEIs in an alienating way compared to their nature.
    Says you. Nothing I said strayed far from SEI.

    culminating with your "SEI" descriptions in the thread of that LIE guy who thinks he's an ILE
    ?? I don't recall anything of this.

    Then you expressed numerous times your feeling of soulmate connection with other people which if not Fi, it is at least not Alpha SF.
    I don't know what you mean about my "soulmate" connections, but yes I do love someone, but I have typed her as ILI. I really have to not be myself when I talk to her, she isn't into all this love and caring feelings I have. By the way, you say that Khola and other talk about love and then act entirely differently. You cannot say this about me.

    So you are going off one post that Khola made that I agreed with. Congrats. Oh yes, and finger length.
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    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    If anything, this supports Se PoLR, but I have never valued "strength" or "boldness". I make a mockery of these attributes, I make jokes about beating people up when it is apparent that I would not/could not do it even if I wanted to. I weigh about 58 kg and am super thin. I can't be masculine in this state, and I really don't want to. I don't need to be stereotypically masculine to feel like a man. I would much prefer to just have fun with people than be some domineering person who is the leader of everything. Why can't we all be the leader?
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    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamajama View Post
    If anything, this supports Se PoLR, but I have never valued "strength" or "boldness". I make a mockery of these attributes, I make jokes about beating people up when it is apparent that I would not/could not do it even if I wanted to. I weigh about 58 kg and am super thin. I can't be masculine in this state, and I really don't want to. I don't need to be stereotypically masculine to feel like a man. I would much prefer to just have fun with people than be some domineering person who is the leader of everything. Why can't we all be the leader?
    Agreed on all points. Although you'd probably beat me in a fight, you've got 6 kilos on me
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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Ignore certain people, Kamajama.

    Like everyone on this site who doesn't offer reasons for why you are a certain type.

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    Dunno, Kam. Perhaps you are one of those intuitive types. :-p Differences I feel between the two of us are that you seem to take things personally way more than I'm inclined to and you feel more "all over the place" compared to me :-p. Sometimes you go off on tangents rather than addressing the point, which makes me wonder if you are indeed a Ti-valuer. Hey it's mildly frustrated me in the past. :-p I even like joking within certain structural confines haha .. but you seem to let your imagination run free at all times. :-p I'm using too many of these: :-p. This is just the product of late-night boredom, so don't take it too seriously. :-p Though it is my serious viewpoint. (serious face) I can imagine you in real life being like this - .. and I'm more like this - . Or this - :wink:. Or this - . Yep I'm going to bed now.
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    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicon View Post
    Dunno, Kam. Perhaps you are one of those intuitive types.
    I don't think it is possible I am an intuitive type, but this is ok.

    :-p Differences I feel between the two of us are that you seem to take things personally way more than I'm inclined to and you feel more "all over the place" compared to me :-p.
    I don't feel I take things more personally than a lot of people. I am a very laid back guy when I want to be. I think you are referring to my penchant for analyzing things on the forum and in real life. If anything, I have realized that I state my opinion more and that I am much more defensive about my opinion. Rather than being worried about people proving me wrong and therefore not stating my opinion, I therefore think "Hey, I can figure stuff out just like everyone else, I will not allow anyone to prove my argument wrong."

    Sometimes you go off on tangents rather than addressing the point, which makes me wonder if you are indeed a Ti-valuer.
    That shouldn't have anything to do with valuing Ti.


    Hey it's mildly frustrated me in the past. :-p I even like joking within certain structural confines haha .. but you seem to let your imagination run free at all times. :-p
    This is fine. Yesterday, I said "Jesus Christ!" in exasperation, and some girl said "Yes?" as if she was Jesus Christ. I said "That made no sense, since Jesus was not a woman." She said it was a joke. I wanted to say you need to think of jokes that actually make sense, but I did not of course.
    Last edited by Mediator Kam; 02-13-2010 at 04:14 PM.
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    Yo, I'm LSI and Kam is EII


    It makes sense seeing as Kam and I cannot relate to eachother in the slightest and all of our dealings have been stressful.
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    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    I am feeling a very strong feeling of hate towards you right now. I suppose that makes me Fi ego, since SEIs can't hate anything, they are compassionate creatures who wouldn't hurt a fly.

    You never had any strong arguments against my type. Half your most "impressive post" consisted of a comparison to Khola(just because two things are similar does not make them the same) and a discourse on finger length. How can I take you seriously man? You continuously rely on very weak arguments to build strong ones. If anything, you are on my block list.
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    I say, ban him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamajama View Post
    I don't feel I take things more personally than a lot of people. I am a very laid back guy when I want to be. I think you are referring to my penchant for analyzing things on the forum and in real life.
    Nah, I was referring to being personally offended by things/people on here in a way that I didn't relate to in the slightest. PM me if you want me to get specific. :-p
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamajama View Post
    If anything, I have realized that I state my opinion more and that I am much more defensive about my opinion. Rather than being worried about people proving me wrong and therefore not stating my opinion, I therefore think "Hey, I can figure stuff out just like everyone else, I will not allow anyone to prove my argument wrong."
    More power to you. :-p I can't really relate though, as the thought of having a potentially silly or wrong opinion bothers me more than having none. I'll get opinionated sometimes - usually mostly for the fun of it though - in order to generate discussion. I'm always ridiculously open to alternative opinions. :-/
    This is fine. Yesterday, I said "Jesus Christ!" in exasperation, and some girl said "Yes?" as if she was Jesus Christ. I said "That made no sense, since Jesus was not a woman." She said it was a joke. I wanted to say you need to think of jokes that actually make sense, but I did not of course.
    Not a good example. :-p If the girl answered to "Jesus Christ", then in my mind I would have to adapt - she is pretending to be Jesus Christ and therefore takes on his characteristics. Zooming in on the fact that she isn't male doesn't make sense to me, because hey - she isn't another person for that matter at all. Might as well tell her you're not into pretense stuff and be done with it. :-p In liking for things to make sense, I think you might be thinking more in terms of lack of factual accuracy as opposed to whether things make sense within the context.
    Here is my video:
    You do seem like a pleasant, easygoing fellow. :-p
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    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicon View Post
    Nah, I was referring to being personally offended by things/people on here in a way that I didn't relate to in the slightest. PM me if you want me to get specific. :-p
    I would like you to pm me the specifics.

    More power to you. :-p I can't really relate though, as the thought of having a potentially silly or wrong opinion bothers me more than having none. I'll get opinionated sometimes - usually mostly for the fun of it though - in order to generate discussion. I'm always ridiculously open to alternative opinions. :-
    If you knew your opinion was wrong, then any sane and logical person would either change that opinion or in the midst of an argument, either swallow their pride and admit it or keep on fighting. I don't think what you said has anything to do with me. My point was that I can make assertions that are rock-solid just like anyone else, but I go to a school with people who i would say are majority NT. They enjoy theoretics and expanding the frame of the argument to a point where my argument is null and void because they made the subject so broad. The only way to not lose face daily is to stick to your guns and keep the argument centered where you want it.

    Not a good example. :-p If the girl answered to "Jesus Christ", then in my mind I would have to adapt - she is pretending to be Jesus Christ and therefore takes on his characteristics. Zooming in on the fact that she isn't male doesn't make sense to me, because hey - she isn't another person for that matter at all. Might as well tell her you're not into pretense stuff and be done with it. :-p In liking for things to make sense, I think you might be thinking more in terms of lack of factual accuracy as opposed to whether things make sense within the context.
    what does the bolded mean?

    To me, the most important thing was that she was not male. How can you twist someone's figure of speech to make a joke when you are not qualified to make that joke from the beginning? The joke simply made zero sense coming from a girl. It was random to the point of insensibility. That is like someone woofing and meowing when someone says it is raining cats and dogs.
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    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamajama View Post
    I don't feel I take things more personally than a lot of people. I am a very laid back guy when I want to be. I think you are referring to my penchant for analyzing things on the forum and in real life. If anything, I have realized that I state my opinion more and that I am much more defensive about my opinion. Rather than being worried about people proving me wrong and therefore not stating my opinion, I therefore think "Hey, I can figure stuff out just like everyone else, I will not allow anyone to prove my argument wrong."
    Perhaps this is just stronger use of Fe?
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    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    BTW, I talked to Rubicon and VI'ed her, she's 100% SEI, so I'd not even think about it if I was you.
    I've met her IRL and spent about half a day with her. I could see some similarities and some differences. I was certainly louder, but I think we valued the same things. I'm going to go with SEI-Fe vs SEI-Si I think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamajama View Post
    I am feeling a very strong feeling of hate towards you right now. I suppose that makes me Fi ego, since SEIs can't hate anything, they are compassionate creatures who wouldn't hurt a fly.

    You never had any strong arguments against my type. Half your most "impressive post" consisted of a comparison to Khola(just because two things are similar does not make them the same) and a discourse on finger length. How can I take you seriously man? You continuously rely on very weak arguments to build strong ones. If anything, you are on my block list.
    Heheh my finger is bigger than yours

    Hope this cheered you up somewhat
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicon View Post
    If the girl answered to "Jesus Christ", then in my mind I would have to adapt - she is pretending to be Jesus Christ and therefore takes on his characteristics. Zooming in on the fact that she isn't male doesn't make sense to me, because hey - she isn't another person for that matter at all. Might as well tell her you're not into pretense stuff and be done with it. :-p In liking for things to make sense, I think you might be thinking more in terms of lack of factual accuracy as opposed to whether things make sense within the context.You do seem like a pleasant, easygoing fellow. :-p
    I would've brought it up and then turned it into a playful, silly discussion of the possibilities of Jesus being a woman and the 'chinese whispers' nature of the bible....probably followed by some quote from Douglas Adams. I love the both of you ^_^
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    Hey dude, after looking at your video...

    Here's an idea: (whatever your type is) don't try to prove yourself to others.

    Put it this way, if you're looking for buckets, you will always find one that needs to be filled. It might feel good to fill one up, but after you go to the next one, and the next one after that, you'll probably realize that there will always be one out there, and there will never be a "finish line" to it. With that said, why do it all together? What about you and what you think of yourself? It's not to say that you should say "Fuck everybody's opinion!" just don't automatically let other's opinion affect you so easily. Transcend it instead. Like the saying goes; what you resist persists.

    Think about it though, it's not like you're in court right now and are going to get the electric chair if people disagree or dislike you if you don't prove something soon!





    That's silly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timeless View Post
    Hey dude, after looking at your video...

    Here's an idea: (whatever your type is) don't try to prove yourself to others.

    Put it this way, if you're looking for buckets, you will always find one that needs to be filled. It might feel good to fill one up, but after you go to the next one, and the next one after that, you'll probably realize that there will always be one out there, and there will never be a "finish line" to it. With that said, why do it all together? What about you and what you think of yourself? It's not to say that you should say "Fuck everybody's opinion!" just don't automatically let other's opinion affect you so easily. Transcend it instead. Like the saying goes; what you resist persists.

    Think about it though, it's not like you're in court right now and are going to get the electric chair if people disagree or dislike you if you don't prove something soon!





    That's silly.
    +8,000

    it's so incredibly silly how inflated the importance of a persons type, both by self and by the community, can become here. From the way some people act you'd think that we were sorting the forum into jews, gypsys, and aryans to go on the train heading out of town.
    Last edited by bg; 02-13-2010 at 09:40 AM.

  37. #37
    Hello...? somavision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    If you're blind, that doesn't mean that there are no stars. The stars will persist whether you resist acknowledging their existence or not.

    The types are inborn and it's not up to anyone to decide them at his/her discretion. Insisting that he's SEI he's accusing anyone who types him correctly of being wrong, namely me in this case.

    Yes but there are faulty rogue stars my friend. And of course the processess that go into determing our types happen within, so who is best to see and understand this?
    The poster you responded to did not say that you should close you eyes and therefore become blind to other peolpe, just that you don't have to prove anything to anyone but yourself.
    IEE-Ne

  38. #38
    Creepy-Pied Piper

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  39. #39
    Hello...? somavision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    LOL. Are you sure about this? You imply that even if you don't know Socionics you can type yourself more accurately than anyone. That happens only in your imagination, certainly.
    Incorrect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    (And I was talking about closing the eyes to the evidence, not people, you got that out of your ass again.)
    I accept my misunderstanding.
    IEE-Ne

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamajama View Post
    If you knew your opinion was wrong, then any sane and logical person would either change that opinion or in the midst of an argument, either swallow their pride and admit it or keep on fighting. I don't think what you said has anything to do with me. My point was that I can make assertions that are rock-solid just like anyone else, but I go to a school with people who i would say are majority NT. They enjoy theoretics and expanding the frame of the argument to a point where my argument is null and void because they made the subject so broad. The only way to not lose face daily is to stick to your guns and keep the argument centered where you want it.
    Yeah ok. I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about re the argument being centered, without having an example. I just don't have much of an interest in making rock-solid assertions really. I guess that correct assertions as opposed to incorrect ones are something that anyone would want to make, but throwing an opinion in there that may be shot down in flames is more fun I think.
    what does the bolded mean?
    I was just meaning that she's obviously pretending, so why get pedanticalisticistic about it?
    To me, the most important thing was that she was not male. How can you twist someone's figure of speech to make a joke when you are not qualified to make that joke from the beginning? The joke simply made zero sense coming from a girl. It was random to the point of insensibility. That is like someone woofing and meowing when someone says it is raining cats and dogs.
    If you say so. :-p
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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