Using integration/disintegration directions to find Enneagram type

[electric sheep]

Using direction of integration and disintegration is a bad way to decide your type. Don't even look at it.

Back when I thought I was a 5, I noticed that I got really excitable and scattered on occasion, and I could also be really forceful and decisive at times. Does that mean I disintegrate to 7, and integrate to 8? No, both of those things are just part of being a 3.

Also, only the people who have their DOI/DOD in their trifix should really be able to relate to that, or so I'm told...

That said, it might be useful to know what the directions really mean. 3s integrate to 6 when the finally stop trying to pull one over on everyone. 7s integrate to 5s when they stop looking for the next great thing, and so on.

[UDP]

I think the 'directions' are actually useful.
The problem is that having good examples of such, especially ones that match up or make sense with your socionics type, sometimes are rare.

"That said, it might be useful to know what the directions really mean"
Yeah.

[electric sheep]

How would you describe 8 integrating to 2? Is it when they finally realize they need people?

[UDP]

How would you describe 8 integrating to 2? Is it when they finally realize they need people?

I don't think it should be seen as some sort of magical transformation that you don't go back from. (not saying that's what you had in mind, though).


I think it is also useful to consider how an E2 regresses into an E8. When under a lot of stresses, E2's get more forcefully domineering, and even somewhat manipulative of other people's wants and needs.

An E8 'progressing' is sort of like that but in reverse. I think it is yes, realizing you need people, but for me I see a lot of it as realizing how much impact I really have over people, and that I have the opportunity to really badly damage someone or something, OR I can help them, take care of them more so. (Maybe even more so because I am w9 and have a 'callousness', but, I sometimes simply become unaware of how I impact people, for better or worse). So for me to have experiences where see, (or in the past, have even been 'forced' to see) what I've done or how I've impacted people, that had influence. I think this is kind of a stereotypical pattern of health vs unhealth, or development, but...

When I get unhealthy and regress towards 5, my relationships very much become in question. I start seeing everybody as a threat, and unless they 'submit' or back down somehow, I can move to destroy them. It easily becomes a battle of wills, and a sense of extreme defensiveness and competitiveness. Obviously that gets worse the more unhealthy I get. Being in a healthy state, I am less threatened by being open and really connecting with people - I feel like I can really think about what other people need to have benefit. That's much different form seeing everybody in a very extreme form of the security dilemma, where most every action someone does can be seen as a threat to my own power or well being.

I think, for me, it has to do with how I see my relation to other people in general. When unhealthy, it's more that I am a self-centered dictator desperately trying to keep people away and suppress outside influence of any kind. A "red flag" moment that has changed my view and helped me when I was REALLY bad was when someone pointed out to me how much I was actually hurting people, and how I could be a force for goodness in the world - which is something I had talked about earlier, my own take on 'truth and justice'. This person was actually an EII, though I didn't know it at the time, and helped me out a lot with Fi - I've had very problematic conceptions of ethics and problems with keeping or understanding consistent ethics - I think it has to do with E8 visceral-ness, but also because, yes, Te in and of itself can be very "benefit" focused. (Only when there is a healthy detachment is Te actually 'objective', you can pick out many "Te dominants" who are not objective. . . look at politics).

Anyhow, I think another way to describe what it's like for an E8, at least as per my experience, is expanding you're area of concern. When I am at my worst, I only care about myself, and will violently defend it. It is incredibly ego-focused, and there is so much stubbornness and drive that it can be really bad. But in my better states, I care about more people, in an active way. I care about things beyond myself, and I actually find my greatest 'motivation' as helping other people. It is very easy for me to take on the role of a 'defender" or "supporter" of a group of people that I like or have a lot of loyalty with. And when I'm most healthy, I see myself as trying to actually think about what most people need or could use to have a better life.


I think some underpinnings as to what leads to health as an E8 (and perhaps particularly if they are Fi dual seeking, but probably the SLE 8s, too, in some form), is that there is some sort of sense of loyalty from someone, somewhere; having a healthy relationship. I'm sure that's important for all of the Etypes, but for an E8, I think it takes on the form of people you can really trust. It's so easy for an E8 to become suspicious or doubt peoples relations or intentions, to become offensive out of not wanting to be in a defensive or weak position, that I think having someone who you know you can trust, and who's feedback and even criticisms you are willing to listen to, is very important.

At least in my experience, if that isn't there, then it takes a lot of firepower in terms of both effort and also sincerity to get me to settle down if I'm on a rampage towards a very bad E5 regression. I can only remember about two periods in my life that I was every really really bad, and I think I've learned enough to be somewhat weary about going there again. But, it's a good learning experience, I suppose.