Duality/Activation Functions and Energies

[thePirate]

k, so I've been trying to get a handle on how the dual and activator's functions work with each other. now its clear to me that both relations have an energizing effect, but how to differentiate the two?

Some people say it comes from the HA, others the 1st/5th functions, and still more say 2nd/6th.

What functions are working together to achieve this this 'energy', and how are the energizing effects of activity/duality different? I know activity tends to wear you out and duality is more 'comfy' so I imagine it being more low-key; but does this apply across the board? Its hard imagining Se for instance to be low-key. More specifics would be nice.

How does it feel when you experience it (a compare/contrast description between both relations)? What is it about how the function order in duality as opposed to activity works that makes it better? Basically, looking for clear cut ways to differentiate the two.

[Marie84]

I kind of see extroverted activation as being more likely to wear each other out, whereas introverted ones leave a feeling of dissatisfaction with the others ability to get things moving, so to speak (so, more boring than tiresome?).

Extroverts tend to want someone to respond to their initiative and introverts want someone with initiative.
So, I think, the bump with activation relations occurs when there's a consistent lack of responding (for extroverts) or lack of motion (for introverts)

[silverchris9]

...there aren't really clear cut ways to do much of anything in socionics, but I'll try to give some examples, I guess.

I have one good friend who's LSI, and one good friend who's SLE. I'll try to describe the differences.

With my activity, we *can* think on the same wavelength, and what he has to say is always relevant to my train of thought. But with my SLE friend, we're naturally on the same wavelength. What I say sparks something in his mind, what he says sparks something in my mind, etc.

With my SLE friend, we can both go on tangents to each other, each of which are only tangentially related to what the other is saying, and somehow effectively have a conversation that way. Not so much with my LSI friend.

My LSI friend appreciates my whole poetry/academic/whatever business, and thinks it's really cool and admirable, much as I think his ability to build things is really cool and admirable. Nevertheless, neither of us would really do what the other does seriously. My SLE friend on the other hand, is somewhat different in this regard. There are some things he does that I would never ever do under any circumstances (like play a sport seriously), and vice versa (I can't really picture him as an actor, for instance, at least not the serious emotional kind, although I'm sure he could do it if he really wanted to), but the interests he focuses on most are also the ones that are the most interesting to me. Now, this could just be an accident of the people I know, but I think there's a kernel of socionics in there somewhere. Perhaps it has to do not so much with the activites, but with the fact that duals have an approach, even if it's to different but related subjects (my SLE friend is into religion, theology, some philosophy, and classics, while I'm into poetry, poetry, poetry, and poetry), that is consonant with one another.

This seems like an odd thing, but I can totally hang out with my SLE friend even when I'm exhausted and half-asleep, because what I'd naturally do, no filter, or whatever. I can hang out with my LSI friend when I'm really relaxed or whatever, but there's still a slight element of effort, so when I'm half-awake, we can't really hang out productively. It's not like I have to put on a face; I can still be myself, comparatively. But it's like this: if level 1 is completely surface interactions, completely projected, completely active self-presentation as opposed to natural "being yourself", and level 5 is completely being yourself, with an activator, you get along great at levels 1-4, but at level 5 things get a little iffy (not bad, just iffy). Duals are the only ones who get along with you better at level 5 than at any other level (activity probably peaks around 3 or maybe 4).

Also, with my SLE friend I kind of know what to say and what not to. Actually, I've found that's the case to a lesser degree even with SLEs I don't know as well here and elsewhere. I have something of a sense (obviously not at all perfect, or maybe even not very good) of how something will go over before I say it, just a vibe thing. While I can do this to some degree with other types, including activators, with a dual, I can say a more complex or difficult thing in a way that works.

Activators are the friends that you can call up (or text) at 11 and hang out with at 12, and always have a great time. If there was a social group full of nothing but activity partners, everyone would have a great time, and get the group back together for another outing the next week. Duals are the friends that you hang out all day with, and then call the activator to join you. Duals are fun to be around regardless of activity. This is probably useless to you, but duals just naturally fit.

Ultimately, it's a vibe thing. With an activity relation, you can hang out for a while, and it's a friendship that's easy to start up, and easy to pick back up even if you haven't seen each other for a while, and it's just cool. But eventually it gets kind of old, and you retreat into separate spheres, which, while interesting and relevant to each other for a while, aren't things that you would spend a huge amount of time/energy on.

With duals, on the other hand, the friendship generally takes longer to start up, it takes longer to build (as opposed to activity, which, in my experience, develops quickly and easily), but it ends up much closer. Closer may be the wrong word. More natural. There's no need to retreat into separate spheres, because what is most relevant to you is most relevant to your dual. After a point, you know how to be around your dual like you know how to be around yourself. (perhaps this is a component of all good friendship, to say nothing of romantic relationships, but then perhaps the friendships and relationships that have been extolled by the poets and essayists have frequently been dualities, semi-dualities, and the like?).

And besides, the people I'm closest to I tend to label as my duals or semis or activities or whatever. This far, this has fit socionics pretty well, but seriously, worry about the vibe and then you'll normally find that the socionics or theory aspect of things takes care of itself.

[thePirate]

good stuff, pretty helpful

[Azeroffs]

I think activation's "wearing out" effect comes from the lack of suppression of each others' role functions. In duality, you have the ignoring of role functions. In activation, you have demonstrative of each others' role functions. Essentially you make each other very comfortable, but there is no calming effect. Activators build you up with their focus on your HA and ignoring your PoLR, and keep you confident by hitting on your DS while demonstrating your role.

Duality has more of a dependency and teaching affect. They focus on your DS and subconsciously give advice on your role, but never use it themselves. Instead of ignoring your PoLR, they demonstrate it unconsciously meaning that instead of disregarding it completely, it kind of keeps you in check and balanced. Their more precise focus on your HA makes you less likely to jump into action and be more accurate.

I see activators as the immature friend who can get you into a lot of trouble because PoLRs are entirely ignored while Roles and HAs are hyper-inflated. All the while you're DSs aren't completely fulfilled.

Your Dual keeps you in check and makes sure you don't miss anything.

[Jarno]

Some people say it comes from the HA, others the 1st/5th functions, and still more say 2nd/6th.

huh, who sais that?

it's common knowledge that you get energy from dual and activator because of partners ego functions working on your 5th and 6th function.

the subcounscious functions (5 to 8) are the vital ring. a partner that has ego functions that work on your 5 and/or 6 is energizing you, if they work on your 7th and/or 8th functions you drain energy.

[crazedrat]

There you have it. Activity does not work the same as duality. Okay, I think we have settled this now. Thank you for that..

[redbaron]

There you have it. Activity does not work the same as duality. Okay, I think we have settled this now. Thank you for that..

I was thinking the same thing.

[silverchris9]

I see activators as the immature friend who can get you into a lot of trouble because PoLRs are entirely ignored while Roles and HAs are hyper-inflated. All the while you're DSs aren't completely fulfilled.

Your Dual keeps you in check and makes sure you don't miss anything.

Your activator is the immature friend because SEEs are everybody's immature friend. lol. An LSI isn't anybody's immature anything, thank you very much.

(Completely kidding. Good observations, imo)

[redbaron]

Your activator is the immature friend because SEEs are everybody's immature friend. lol. An LSI isn't anybody's immature anything, thank you very much.

(Completely kidding. Good observations, imo)

[Gilly]

Activity is like being a little Japanese kid playing Pokemon while running on a treadmill and being given caffeine intravenously.

[redbaron]

Activity is like being a little Japanese kid playing Pokemon while running on a treadmill and being given caffeine intravenously.

now there's an image. lol