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Thread: help help! 7w6 or 4w3

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    bobbybeam's Avatar
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    Default help help! 7w6 or 4w3

    so originally i thought that i was a 4 winged 3, but then i took one of the enneagram tests and found out that i am more 7 then anything else, but that i was only a few points away from having my 4 qualities tie w/ my 7 qualities....

    is this common? i feel very much drawn to the 4 emotionality, while i feel very drawn to the 7 mentality many a times as well...

    can i be a 7 winged 6, with a very strong 4 winged 3 heart fix or something?

    i know that IEE's are most generally 7's...but can somebody help me out, please :]
    ENFp. yay!

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    Lol I'm loving the avatar. It's fitting

    you already know what I think.
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    Lol I'm loving the avatar. It's fitting

    you already know what I think.
    ;p avatar=avatar. hooray! great idea, azeroffs.
    azeroffs...wow, weird.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    yeah, sure. Tell us about yourself in different situations. Behavior, expectations, hopes, fears
    well, first of all, my mind has the tendency to race a lot. i mean, there are times when the racing gets settled and i am somewhat focused (this is usually when i am sad or something), but over-all race-y.
    (i think i may use the focusing to "distract" me from the sadness that i am feeling at the time)

    i do enjoy indivduality and i find myself judging as to whether or not something is common. i do not like common; i find it rather boring, but despite this fact, i do not go out of my way to be extemely different (like standing out like a sore thumb). Different, but not over-done is what i aim for. People that over-do things to stand out bother me.

    my emotions fuel my creativity, so when i feel i write, i draw, i reflect-this is usually when i feel really alone and secluded or something.
    but when i am not feeling isolated and have a lot of people around me and timed filled, i do not create at all, but rather am caught up in the actions and the "bonding"

    new things both excite me and cause me extreme anxiety. i look forward to the event coming up so much, or the cohesiveness of the upcoming events that it stresses me out.

    i feel as though i have a better grasp on life when it is lived more peacefully w/ fewer activities so that i can stay centered and not get stessed out, but when i have nothing going on, i get really sad and feel very lonely.
    ENFp. yay!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbybeam View Post
    ;p avatar=avatar. hooray! great idea, azeroffs.
    azeroffs...wow, weird.
    lol you can use my real name.

    What did you think your instinct stacking was? sx/sp?
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    lol you can use my real name.

    What did you think your instinct stacking was? sx/sp?
    ricky!!!!!! oh, um yes sx/sp i do believe

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    So, you are sad/depressed? How do you act externally when you are depressed compared to how you act when you are doing well? How does your thoughts differ? WHAT do you think about?

    i am not always sad/depressed but when i am umm, i get really socially awkward, i am always on the edge of crying/getting really sad, i do not want to talk to other people, and i go internal. i do my best poetry and journaling when i am sad....i am in a very good "reflective state" where i become very intune w/ my emotions.
    when i am like this, it makes me very content just being w/in myself. i do not need anyone and it feels rather refreshing in a deep rain-cloudish kind of way.

    when i am happy, which is usually-my mind is very race-y and very excited. i have a ton of energy that i release to the world around. sometimes i have so much that i have to just throw it at people. i meet tons of new people, feel really good, am rather funny, and just look on the bright-side of everything. i am still intune, but have a lot more energy and am obnoxiously chipper. i have a harder time focusing on school work and get distracted very easily.
    Why don't you like common?

    i guess it is because i feel like people aren't being true to themselves when they look like everyone else. not only is common very uninteresting, but it is not self expressive. we are all different and i feel that common does not glorify the uniqueness that every person has inside of themselves. plus, it shows when you try. i think it is very nice when people express themselves and be true to who they are. we are living art.


    What does creativity give you?

    it gives me a way to release all of my feelings. when i feel i just have so much inside of me and i feel compelled to take advantage of this creative energy. it centers me and allows me to get deep inside of myself and pull out inner parts of me that when i am happy i usually never see/feel.


    What is it that new things give you?

    excitment-a kind of excitment that both thrills me and causes me great anxiety.
    new is unknown and there is just something about the unknown that gets me going...lots and lots of energy


    What do you think about and what do you wish for when that happens?
    sometimes i have no idea and i just get excited for simply experiencing the unknown, while other times i get to daydreaming that something awesome is going to happen, which is usually outlandish and totally not of this world...

    but i have to say overall, it is more of an intense amount of feelings/ expectancy that hits me all at once...and it just feels...haha just feels and that is all if that makes any sense
    ENFp. yay!

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Just a side note: 4w3s might mistake themselves for 7w6s, but I don't think it would be very likely for a 7w6 to mistake themselves for a 4w3.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Every time I read about 4s, I think I could be one. The boundary between 4 and 3 is so thin, even though the motivations and classical depictions are so different. But really, all it takes is interaction with a real 4 to remind me what a 3 I am
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    What are you escaping when you go internal?

    it is almost like a force pulls me inward. i feel rejected by the world; i feel that i am unwanted so to escape this feeling of rejection i go internal
    Do you think any emotion should be expressed? What emotions should be held back?

    i think that when you are expressing yourself you should not hold any emotions back. it is who you are and you should not hide that. if you do not like what you are, then change it, but never conceal what you are at the present.
    emotions need to be released or else they get bottled up inside of you, get morphed and twisted and do not come out in their original form. i find the orignial form is the best on an emotionally healthy level, when creating, and w/ other people so they better understand where you are coming from


    I think most people would benefit from using art this way. It could have been my answer as well.
    :}


    Why is this important for you? (dig deeper, you seem to go in circles...)

    i guess it is because i feel that the possibility of finding a greater amount of happiness comes knocking on my door the minute something new comes into my life. it might take me one step closer to euphoria, in a sense.

    "what if this new person can teach me something about myself, can take me on an adventure that will open me up to a whole new way of life that i have always dreamed of having?"
    "what if he knows the kind of people that will finally understand me?"

    "what if we connect and share intense emotions w/ eachother and bond in ways that i haven't bonded w/ someone in a while?"

    "what if this yoga teacher could teach me how to feel good like this all of the time?"
    "what if this class will open me up to a thinking and a subject that will change my life forever?"

    "what if this college will introduce me to the kind of people/lifestyle that i would love to be a part of forever?"


    Sorry about all the questions, I'm trying to dig down to what motivates your actions and reactions. If you want, answer me in PMs.
    no, do not be sorry! thank you for digging!! i really want to know what i am!!
    ENFp. yay!

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    What do you find yourself doing more?
    brooding over past mistakes or dreaming up future interests? Do you find yourself more inclined to chase optimistic outcomes or be cautious about making mistakes?

    What do you dislike about being involved in the mundane or simple?

    Which is the stronger feeling stress or depression? How do you handle both?

    How do you feel about isolation?
    Last edited by Azeroffs; 01-31-2010 at 10:25 PM.
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    What do you find yourself doing more?
    brooding over past mistakes or dreaming up future interests? Do you find yourself more inclined to chase optimistic outcomes or be cautious about making mistakes?
    when i first make the mistake, especially when it is a "really big one," (i tend to blow all of my mistakes out of proportion) i can't get my mind off of it. this goes from forgetting my water bottle to having a one night stance that i can't forget even when i try.

    i will feel really bad about it and especially if it is something as big as a one night stance, it kind of haunts my life for a long while. i won't drink, i won't get loose, i won't flirt, i won't even think about sex....i totally shut myself out from all of it.

    if it is something as simple as a water bottle, it could totally put a damper on my day...it keeps eating away at the back of my head and i can't thoroughly enjoy my day because of this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    What do you dislike about being involved in the mundane or simple?
    the mundane is uninteresting and when something is uninteresting i am not inspired and it is hard to focus..i am bored and can't do anything w/ it...talk, listen, look- i just can't...i do not mind simple as long as it is unique/interesting....as long as it keeps my attention and i can respect it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    Which is the stronger feeling stress or depression? How do you handle both?
    i guess it depends on what emotion i am feeling. i can get very stressed and overwhelmed when school, schedules, work, or the future freak me out; but then again when i feel like i have no friends, or when i lost somebody that i love/care about, or when something didn't work out the way that i wanted it to, i get really depressed.

    i can't handle stress-it takes a toll on my body, my mind, my emotions...i get sick and worried and my chest starts to hurt and my stomach can't digest anything

    when i am depressed, i cry, i do not feel like eating, i sleep a lot, i do not want to go outside, or be around anyone...i feel ugly and gross...i guess i just sleep a lot and then sooner some outside force forces me to go outside and moving around helps me slowly get over everything....talking it out helps a little bit too

    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    How do you feel about isolation?
    i get a lot more done when i am alone, i am more intune w/ myself, and am a lot more creative. no people interaction makes me very sad and it does take me a little while to get use to not really having a consistent person to have around, but my mood shifts and i end up embracing it....i am a bit moodier, a bit deeper, and less social when i am like this.

    it is a kind of bitter sweet feeling. i find myself wishing that i had more people around, but then when those people are around i feel like they are invading my personal space....but then i meet interesting people like ricky who want to hangout w/ me and i get really flattered by it.

    i am much happier when people are around.
    ENFp. yay!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbybeam View Post
    when i first make the mistake, especially when it is a "really big one," (i tend to blow all of my mistakes out of proportion) i can't get my mind off of it. this goes from forgetting my water bottle to having a one night stance that i can't forget even when i try.

    i will feel really bad about it and especially if it is something as big as a one night stance, it kind of haunts my life for a long while. i won't drink, i won't get loose, i won't flirt, i won't even think about sex....i totally shut myself out from all of it.

    if it is something as simple as a water bottle, it could totally put a damper on my day...it keeps eating away at the back of my head and i can't thoroughly enjoy my day because of this.
    you didn't really answer my question.

    the mundane is uninteresting and when something is uninteresting i am not inspired and it is hard to focus..i am bored and can't do anything w/ it...talk, listen, look- i just can't...i do not mind simple as long as it is unique/interesting....as long as it keeps my attention and i can respect it.
    Are you are more inclined to avoid the ordinary because it isn't stimulating or because it is too trite/simple?

    i guess it depends on what emotion i am feeling. i can get very stressed and overwhelmed when school, schedules, work, or the future freak me out; but then again when i feel like i have no friends, or when i lost somebody that i love/care about, or when something didn't work out the way that i wanted it to, i get really depressed.

    i can't handle stress-it takes a toll on my body, my mind, my emotions...i get sick and worried and my chest starts to hurt and my stomach can't digest anything

    when i am depressed, i cry, i do not feel like eating, i sleep a lot, i do not want to go outside, or be around anyone...i feel ugly and gross...i guess i just sleep a lot and then sooner some outside force forces me to go outside and moving around helps me slowly get over everything....talking it out helps a little bit too
    Which for you is harder to deal with? What do you do when you start feeling stressed? depressed?

    i get a lot more done when i am alone, i am more intune w/ myself, and am a lot more creative. no people interaction makes me very sad and it does take me a little while to get use to not really having a consistent person to have around, but my mood shifts and i end up embracing it....i am a bit moodier, a bit deeper, and less social when i am like this.
    What are your thoughts on this state?

    it is a kind of bitter sweet feeling. i find myself wishing that i had more people around, but then when those people are around i feel like they are invading my personal space....but then i meet interesting people like ricky who want to hangout w/ me and i get really flattered by it.

    i am much happier when people are around.
    Do you find yourself indulging in that bitter sweet feeling and romanticizing it or do you you prefer to distract yourself from it?
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    you didn't really answer my question.
    i focus on the new. i feel bad about my mistakes at first, but overall i am hopeful and look forward towards future events....i have a short attention span.....i get distracted very easily and after a few days i have so many more things that i have to deal w/ that i can't remained focused on the past.



    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    Are you are more inclined to avoid the ordinary because it isn't stimulating or because it is too trite/simple?
    it isn't stimulating. i am not attracted to it and get easily bored w/ it. i like many layers. when i can be around somebody for a day and already know what they are i get easily bored and am completely unstimulated/uninspired. i lose my creativity in the way i dress, my speech, i am unamused, and find myself getting distracted or irritated.



    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    Which for you is harder to deal with? What do you do when you start feeling stressed? depressed?
    they are both hard, just one is almost instant and overwhelming, but leaves rather quickly (stress), and one is gradual, makes me very sad, and takes a lot longer to leave.

    i deal w/ stress by screaming in dispair, pulling my hair (not literally i guess grabbing is what i mean), freaking out, get scattered thoughts, feel like the world is caving in on me, i usually have to sit down and try to sort my mind out....usually everything turns out okay.

    i deal w/ depression....well, i am very bad at it. it ruins my life! overall i feel very sad and lonely and there is something romantic about it, i feel so deeply and this just surges through my body. the over-all sensation is rather dark and evil and independent and free of everything and everyone...no distractions....i find ways of releasing it (art, poetry, journaling), i find ways of distracting myself (getting high, self-destructing, sometimes drinking), by sleeping a lot, not talking very much, and trying to move around...maybe do some yoga or pilates...get some endorphins pumping into my body.....endorphins help a lot.....and usually my sister...she takes me somewhere and gets me socializing again.



    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    What are your thoughts on this state?
    i usually reflect on the world, the destructiveness hahaha all of the negative things about the world; i focus on me and all of the little details about me that i am too busy to usually notice (my character, why i do the things i do), i connect w/ nature a lot more, and the spirit world---the unseen, i notice the little things in other people, an act of kindness, the way the lines wear on someone's face...their story---i see people's eyes, the hurt, the kindness, the stress, the burdens....i see it all and then i feel it deep inside of me.

    i hate that i am not talking and caring on w/ others on a more social level, but when i am in this state i feel so much more connected to the human race


    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    Do you find yourself indulging in that bitter sweet feeling and romanticizing it or do you you prefer to distract yourself from it?
    innitially i distract myself from it, but when it gets passed the depression and into the melancholy, i thrive. i indulge in it, i do what i do in the above...i feel like a wise old oak tree when i am in this state...i feel the bad and the good, the yin and the yang....i feel disconnect to the social world, but totally connected to the world on a spiritual level.
    ENFp. yay!

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    Are you usually pretty optimistic about the way things will turn out?
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    Are you usually pretty optimistic about the way things will turn out?
    YES!
    umm well, except when it comes to guys, or politicians, or people in power, or simi valley, or going to santa cruz.
    ENFp. yay!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbybeam View Post
    YES!
    umm well, except when it comes to guys, or politicians, or people in power, or simi valley, or going to santa cruz.
    I meant more along the lines of yourself.

    my opinion hasn't changed. 7 probably 4fix

    besides, knowing you, there is no way you are an so-last 4.
    so-last withdrawn types are your typical introverts.
    Last edited by Azeroffs; 02-01-2010 at 10:23 PM.
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    I meant more along the lines of yourself.

    my opinion hasn't changed. 7 probably 4fix

    besides, knowing you, there is no way you are an so-last 4.
    so-last withdrawn types are your typical introverts.
    relationships have everything to do with me "meant more along the lines of yourself", duh?
    you should know this....remember, think back HA!

    and what if i was self pres-last...hmmm? could i be a 4 then?

    i have things to tell you!!!! remind me please

    i love you this much
    ENFp. yay!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbybeam View Post
    relationships have everything to do with me "meant more along the lines of yourself", duh?
    you should know this....remember, think back HA!
    eh?

    and what if i was self pres-last...hmmm? could i be a 4 then?
    that would be more likely than so-last 4, yes.

    i have things to tell you!!!! remind me please
    don't forget to tell me stuff

    i love you this much
    I love you this much :hump:
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    eh?
    i am saying that the reason why i mentioned relationships w/ other people (especially boys) was because it does directly effect me.
    when i am in a relationship it is all about me...remember back in the day lol

    so to answer your question, i can be optimistic about the future, like when i am dreaming about helping other people or getting my PhD haha, but i am not optimistic when it comes to relationships...then again, sometimes i seriously doubt that i will ever get out of this slimy valley.



    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    that would be more likely than so-last 4, yes.
    sweet. then i say, let's say that i am...hmm



    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    don't forget to tell me stuff
    no NO! remind me tom, silly goose!


    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    I love you this much :hump:
    enough to have your dog hump my dog...wow, rick!
    that's all?

    hahaha this one is funny :coke:
    my co-worker at work (catch that?) thinks that i am on this
    ENFp. yay!

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    <something> Wynch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbybeam View Post
    when i first make the mistake, especially when it is a "really big one," (i tend to blow all of my mistakes out of proportion) i can't get my mind off of it. this goes from forgetting my water bottle to having a one night stance that i can't forget even when i try.

    i will feel really bad about it and especially if it is something as big as a one night stance, it kind of haunts my life for a long while. i won't drink, i won't get loose, i won't flirt, i won't even think about sex....i totally shut myself out from all of it.

    if it is something as simple as a water bottle, it could totally put a damper on my day...it keeps eating away at the back of my head and i can't thoroughly enjoy my day because of this.
    This combined with this:

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbybeam View Post
    i focus on the new. i feel bad about my mistakes at first, but overall i am hopeful and look forward towards future events....i have a short attention span.....i get distracted very easily and after a few days i have so many more things that i have to deal w/ that i can't remained focused on the past.
    Makes me think 7 because

    Quote 1 = 7 going to 1 in stress. Focusing on the details, becoming obsessive over self-improvement and "cleaning up"/avoiding past mistakes.

    Quote 2 = Quickly becoming busy, finding external means of avoiding painful memories and experiences. Very stereotypical 7 response.

    when i am depressed, i cry, i do not feel like eating, i sleep a lot, i do not want to go outside, or be around anyone...i feel ugly and gross...i guess i just sleep a lot and then sooner some outside force forces me to go outside and moving around helps me slowly get over everything....talking it out helps a little bit too
    I'm going to say that this isn't really type related for the most part. You've just listed off most of the clinical signs of depression, lol.

    i get a lot more done when i am alone, i am more intune w/ myself, and am a lot more creative. no people interaction makes me very sad and it does take me a little while to get use to not really having a consistent person to have around, but my mood shifts and i end up embracing it....i am a bit moodier, a bit deeper, and less social when i am like this.
    This sounds a little more 4ish in nature, though it could have something to do with being so-last. Maybe an Fi, sx/sp version of going to 5 in health? I can't say for sure.

    it is a kind of bitter sweet feeling. i find myself wishing that i had more people around, but then when those people are around i feel like they are invading my personal space....but then i meet interesting people like ricky who want to hangout w/ me and i get really flattered by it.

    i am much happier when people are around.
    I think this can be kind of explained by 7 sx/sp actually. From oceanmoonshine:

    The energy of the sexual instinct is, in some ways, at odds with the type Seven fixation. The Sevenís focus is future oriented and outward, away from the inner world, while the sexual variant is instinctual and dwells on the inner self as far as relationships and identity are concerned. This combination can make for a Seven that can be Four-like in many ways. They can have a flamboyant style and be very moody and intense. In relationships, there is often a push-pull quality. They are very attracted to the falling in love part. The buzz and high of that is very stimulating to them, almost drug-like for them. Their problems come when that buzz wears off. They want to recreate it again and again, but they also have a way of becoming attached and sometimes very dependent on their romantic partners. On the down side, they can be very clingy but donít want at the same time to lose their freedom. When unhealthy, they can be very selfish in these relationships, things become one-sided in a way that favors the interests of the Seven.




    Quote Originally Posted by bobbybeam
    it isn't stimulating. i am not attracted to it and get easily bored w/ it. i like many layers. when i can be around somebody for a day and already know what they are i get easily bored and am completely unstimulated/uninspired. i lose my creativity in the way i dress, my speech, i am unamused, and find myself getting distracted or irritated.
    Again, I think oceanmoonshine explains this well in 7 sx/sp

    i deal w/ stress by screaming in dispair, pulling my hair (not literally i guess grabbing is what i mean), freaking out, get scattered thoughts, feel like the world is caving in on me, i usually have to sit down and try to sort my mind out....usually everything turns out okay.
    To me this sounds a lot more like 7 than 4, though a pretty extreme end. From the enneagram institute on 7s in deep stress:

    In flight from self, acting out impulses rather than dealing with anxiety or frustrations: go out of control, into erratic mood swings, and compulsive actions (manias).
    Whereas 4s at the same level of stress are:

    Tormented by delusional self-contempt, self-reproaches, self-hatred, and morbid thoughts: everything is a source of torment. Blaming others, they drive away anyone who tries to help them.
    Quote Originally Posted by bobbybeam
    i deal w/ depression....well, i am very bad at it. it ruins my life! overall i feel very sad and lonely and there is something romantic about it, i feel so deeply and this just surges through my body. the over-all sensation is rather dark and evil and independent and free of everything and everyone...no distractions....i find ways of releasing it (art, poetry, journaling), i find ways of distracting myself (getting high, self-destructing, sometimes drinking), by sleeping a lot, not talking very much, and trying to move around...maybe do some yoga or pilates...get some endorphins pumping into my body.....endorphins help a lot.....and usually my sister...she takes me somewhere and gets me socializing again.

    i usually reflect on the world, the destructiveness hahaha all of the negative things about the world; i focus on me and all of the little details about me that i am too busy to usually notice (my character, why i do the things i do), i connect w/ nature a lot more, and the spirit world---the unseen, i notice the little things in other people, an act of kindness, the way the lines wear on someone's face...their story---i see people's eyes, the hurt, the kindness, the stress, the burdens....i see it all and then i feel it deep inside of me.

    i hate that i am not talking and caring on w/ others on a more social level, but when i am in this state i feel so much more connected to the human race

    The combination of dwelling in your own pain and romanticizing it combined with the fact that you're willing to sit here and describe it all sounds very 4 and not at all 7 to me. However if you talk to a 7 like JRiddy who is so/sx, he's sometimes discussed the idea of connectedness that you just brought up. Kind of indulging in his own phobia to create the sx sense of connectedness. If you ask an so/sp 7 like me I don't think I would ever in a million trillion years feel more connected by being disconnected from the outside.




    innitially i distract myself from it, but when it gets passed the depression and into the melancholy, i thrive. i indulge in it, i do what i do in the above...i feel like a wise old oak tree when i am in this state...i feel the bad and the good, the yin and the yang....i feel disconnect to the social world, but totally connected to the world on a spiritual level.
    Again, this sounds more 4 to me.

    I guess the underlying question is which of these do you think describes you best, or do neither describe you.

    Type 7
    Basic Fear: Of being deprived and in pain (more emotional)
    Basic Desire: To be satisfied and contentóto have their needs
    fulfilled

    Type 4
    Basic Fear: That they have no identity or personal significance
    Basic Desire: To find themselves and their significance (to create an
    identity)
    (From Enneagram Institute)

    You can also think of them as 7 being externally focused, turning away from the internal in an attempt to avoid the basic fear of pain and deprivation; and 4 being internally focussed, turning towards the internal in a search for self-discovery.
    ILE
    7w8 so/sp

    Very busy with work. Only kind of around.

  20. #20
    Azeroffs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    NO!sx first and so last E4w3 is the MOST E7-like of the E4s. From the beforementionned ocean-moonshine:
    fair enough, good post. Sx first is tricky.
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vero View Post
    Quote 1 = 7 going to 1 in stress. Focusing on the details, becoming obsessive over self-improvement and "cleaning up"/avoiding past mistakes.

    Quote 2 = Quickly becoming busy, finding external means of avoiding painful memories and experiences. Very stereotypical 7 response.
    Quote 1: I totally agree w/ 100%. I definitely "clean up"/avoid past mistakes--i am super stricked about it.
    Quote 2: Yes, I originally do this, but I usually break down very soon. I can't handle not dealing/experiencing my emotions...I just can't do it...so many emotions well up inside they literally spew out of me


    Quote Originally Posted by Vero View Post
    Quote:
    when i am depressed, i cry, i do not feel like eating, i sleep a lot, i do not want to go outside, or be around anyone...i feel ugly and gross...i guess i just sleep a lot and then sooner some outside force forces me to go outside and moving around helps me slowly get over everything....talking it out helps a little bit too

    I'm going to say that this isn't really type related for the most part. You've just listed off most of the clinical signs of depression, lol.
    HAHA yes, i totally agree.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vero View Post
    Quote:
    i get a lot more done when i am alone, i am more intune w/ myself, and am a lot more creative. no people interaction makes me very sad and it does take me a little while to get use to not really having a consistent person to have around, but my mood shifts and i end up embracing it....i am a bit moodier, a bit deeper, and less social when i am like this.

    This sounds a little more 4ish in nature, though it could have something to do with being so-last. Maybe an Fi, sx/sp version of going to 5 in health? I can't say for sure.


    Quote:
    it is a kind of bitter sweet feeling. i find myself wishing that i had more people around, but then when those people are around i feel like they are invading my personal space....but then i meet interesting people like ricky who want to hangout w/ me and i get really flattered by it.

    i am much happier when people are around.

    I think this can be kind of explained by 7 sx/sp actually. From oceanmoonshine:
    yes, yes, i agree and this is why:


    Quote Originally Posted by Vero View Post
    Quote:
    The energy of the sexual instinct is, in some ways, at odds with the type Seven fixation. The Sevenís focus is future oriented and outward, away from the inner world, while the sexual variant is instinctual and dwells on the inner self as far as relationships and identity are concerned. This combination can make for a Seven that can be Four-like in many ways. They can have a flamboyant style and be very moody and intense. In relationships, there is often a push-pull quality. They are very attracted to the falling in love part. The buzz and high of that is very stimulating to them, almost drug-like for them. Their problems come when that buzz wears off. They want to recreate it again and again, but they also have a way of becoming attached and sometimes very dependent on their romantic partners. On the down side, they can be very clingy but donít want at the same time to lose their freedom. When unhealthy, they can be very selfish in these relationships, things become one-sided in a way that favors the interests of the Seven.
    This is TOTALLY me!!!!!! down to a T! Within my relationships...sexually especially and my innerself are very moody and intense...though on the surface, I really am not like that at all...I have whole sides of me that are very much focused on the future and is focused very much so on getting things done, being personable, friendly, "normal", but there is a part of me....haha i call it my "dark side" deep deep dark side




    Quote Originally Posted by Vero View Post
    Quote:
    i deal w/ stress by screaming in dispair, pulling my hair (not literally i guess grabbing is what i mean), freaking out, get scattered thoughts, feel like the world is caving in on me, i usually have to sit down and try to sort my mind out....usually everything turns out okay.

    To me this sounds a lot more like 7 than 4, though a pretty extreme end. From the enneagram institute on 7s in deep stress:
    oh yes, i was thinking in the most extreme cases.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vero View Post
    Quote:
    In flight from self, acting out impulses rather than dealing with anxiety or frustrations: go out of control, into erratic mood swings, and compulsive actions (manias).

    Whereas 4s at the same level of stress are:


    Quote:
    Tormented by delusional self-contempt, self-reproaches, self-hatred, and morbid thoughts: everything is a source of torment. Blaming others, they drive away anyone who tries to help them.
    I SO relate to a 7 by these definitions

    Quote Originally Posted by Vero View Post
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bobbybeam
    i deal w/ depression....well, i am very bad at it. it ruins my life! overall i feel very sad and lonely and there is something romantic about it, i feel so deeply and this just surges through my body. the over-all sensation is rather dark and evil and independent and free of everything and everyone...no distractions....i find ways of releasing it (art, poetry, journaling), i find ways of distracting myself (getting high, self-destructing, sometimes drinking), by sleeping a lot, not talking very much, and trying to move around...maybe do some yoga or pilates...get some endorphins pumping into my body.....endorphins help a lot.....and usually my sister...she takes me somewhere and gets me socializing again.

    i usually reflect on the world, the destructiveness hahaha all of the negative things about the world; i focus on me and all of the little details about me that i am too busy to usually notice (my character, why i do the things i do), i connect w/ nature a lot more, and the spirit world---the unseen, i notice the little things in other people, an act of kindness, the way the lines wear on someone's face...their story---i see people's eyes, the hurt, the kindness, the stress, the burdens....i see it all and then i feel it deep inside of me.

    i hate that i am not talking and caring on w/ others on a more social level, but when i am in this state i feel so much more connected to the human race


    The combination of dwelling in your own pain and romanticizing it combined with the fact that you're willing to sit here and describe it all sounds very 4 and not at all 7 to me. However if you talk to a 7 like JRiddy who is so/sx, he's sometimes discussed the idea of connectedness that you just brought up. Kind of indulging in his own phobia to create the sx sense of connectedness. If you ask an so/sp 7 like me I don't think I would ever in a million trillion years feel more connected by being disconnected from the outside world

    I guess the underlying question is which of these do you think describes you best, or do neither describe you.

    Type 7
    Basic Fear: Of being deprived and in pain (more emotional)
    Basic Desire: To be satisfied and contentóto have their needs
    fulfilled

    Type 4
    Basic Fear: That they have no identity or personal significance
    Basic Desire: To find themselves and their significance (to create an
    identity)
    (From Enneagram Institute)

    You can also think of them as 7 being externally focused, turning away from the internal in an attempt to avoid the basic fear of pain and deprivation; and 4 being internally focussed, turning towards the internal in a search for self-discovery.
    i have to say between these two distinctions made between the basic fears and desires...i feel more connected to the 7 though i do dream, want to make something of myself and do worry that i won't amount to anything...i want to find myself (that is why i began socionics, why i am into health, why i journal, why i live, but i guess so does everyone to an extent) and be significant in the world...i want to be around "somebodies" ie. really smart people...the movers and shakers

    But, overall what kills me more than anything...on a basic instinctual level is not having my needs met....it shatters me
    __________________
    ENFp. yay!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Quote:
    Sexual/Self-pres

    This is a very volatile type. They are driven to form connections but have very high demands of their partners. When their powerful fantasies donít match reality, they become very restless. They take the fire and passion of the sexual instinct and turn it inward. This can cause both brooding and fiery outbursts. Dramatic mood swings are very likely with this type. This subtype of Four could be considered the most classic Four, because of the way they seem to embody the archetype of the tortured artist, although not all Fours of this subtype are artists. Stereotype aside, this subtype does tend to bring their emotions into focus more readily then the other subtypes of Four. What is under the surface with the self-pres/sexual is now bubbling to the surface. This subtype can resemble type Seven because of their drama, passion for experience and tendency to suffer from frustration when life seems dull. Like type Seven, they can seem to throw themselves into experience.

    When healthy, this subtype learns to balance the need for passion with the less obvious need for groundedness which can come from solid and focused relationships with others and with their creative outlets.
    This is me exactly!!! my biggest problem is that my fantasies NEVER match my reality...and i do place high demands on my partners...they never seem to live up to my expectations and it makes me sad. The disappointment kills me! It is is where I get my best inspiration from for my art and poetry!
    I do get very frustrated when my life is dual...especially my love life...it literally drives me nuts

    I have disgusting moodswings...that is what made me question my "happy IEE" spirited type...when i swing, i swing low...very low sometimes

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Contrast this description to the one mnOgood posted about the sx/sp E7, and see that this type is the E7-subtype that can look like E4. If E4s and E7s confuse themselves for eachother, it is typically because of sx/sp-instincts.
    I felt pretty connected to both....I see the sx/sp in me most definitely, but I cannot decide between one or the other...I feel both are right on

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Relationships - I think this is a place you could look for differentiation between 7s and 4s, bobbybeam. How do you deal with problems in a relationship? Do you want to talk through every little detail of your quarrel/relationship over and over again, or are you more interested in moving on to the next thing?
    I do NOT want to talk through every little detail, unless I HAVE to, like if not doing so threatens the existence of a relationship that I am in....I like moody, A LOT. It cheapens everything when the emotions can't shift, rather it gets BORING...when the other person freaks out or doesn't respond how i want him to...blah! Relationships are suppose to be passionate....no words... instinctual

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I've tried to spot motivation in what you are writing, but it is very hard to do, without knowing you better. I'll just explain a bit more of the E7 and E4 motivations, and you can see what fits you better:

    E7 : Wants to live happy, joyful, spiritually fulfilling lives, where there is abscence of pain and abundance of the things they "need" to feel happy and fulfilled.
    E4 : Wants to live inspired, engaged and truly original lives, where they feel strong enough to be themselves without feeling as if they are uninteresting and insignificant for being just that
    I want all of 7 and all of 4...i know i know, NOT helping,

    okay, if I had to eliminate one of these things it would have to be the original lives part...i mean i want my OWN life...not copied, modeled, or borrowed....MINE. i am ecclectic, everything that is incorporated into my life is because i hand picked it and sewed it into my life, but i do not value the fact that it is "original for the sake of being original...i value it because i chose it..

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    This is more or less the same as mnOgood wrote here:


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mn0good
    Type 7
    Basic Fear: Of being deprived and in pain (more emotional)
    Basic Desire: To be satisfied and contentóto have their needs
    fulfilled

    Type 4
    Basic Fear: That they have no identity or personal significance
    Basic Desire: To find themselves and their significance (to create an
    identity)
    (From Enneagram Institute)
    well here, i value 7, though i do want to make some sort of contribution to the world, i do want to make my mark, to be significant in the world, and know significant people....movers and shakers is what i call them


    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Also, last I'd like to encourage you to read up on the arrows. Write down how you act when you are stressed - for example at work or in a relationship. Then write down how you act when you are on top of your world, and feel free to blossom. Then check how this correlates to the direction of the arrows of type 4 and 7. It takes some time to do, but take that time. It might help you see things more clearly. Post your conclusions. It would be fun to see what you find out.
    i am sorry, but what exactly are the arrows? i have not the slightest idea


    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mn0good
    You can also think of them as 7 being externally focused, turning away from the internal in an attempt to avoid the basic fear of pain and deprivation; and 4 being internally focussed, turning towards the internal in a search for self-discovery.
    I do turn outward in an attempt to avoid the basic fear of pain and deprivation...isolation, indeed, but in all honesty I have done my fair share of internal soul-searching...i like being there, but only for awhile and not forever, because the need to not feel isolated begins to set in and it starts killing me


    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    However, I know an E7w6 IEE-Fi who would NEVER identify with this, despite the fact that it's extremely obvious to all others. He himself thinks he's very deep and spends a lot of time on "soulsearching" and takes coaching classes. The fun thing is, that even in his coaching, he focuses on getting people "back on their feet" as he says - and when he divorced, he drowned himself in things to do and boasted about how well he was coping, while his ex-wife was sad all the time, even though SHE was the one wanting out of the marriage. For him it seemed as the "winner" was whoever managed better externally. He was so proud that HE coped with his feeling so well. (The bitterness he felt underneath it all was obvious to everybody else). I think that illustrates just HOW an E7 deals with feelings in the extreme. An E4 would more likely go through their feelings, and not drown them in action. They would find action uninteressting, as their goal in life wouldn't to be "happy" and "have fun" but to "understand" their feelings in depth. So the E7 I just described would look like the loser in the eyes of the E4.
    I do focus on "getting people back on their feet," in a sense, or helping people, but only if they want to....i refuse to spoon feed, but,

    i do not do that whole "boosting my confidence thing," (though I may "attempt to distract myself," attempt being the key word...does NOT last long) when I break up w/ someone, I cry hard, I feel hard, I wallow in it til it hurts so bad that I feel like a knife is stabbing through my heart, my gut, and my stomach...my head hurts and I can't function....I cannot help this at all, nor do I want to...but at first I just feel feel feel, I reflect later or come to an understanding once the emotions pour out....this always makes me feel better. i go through several rounds like this...i call it my "cleansing process"....oh, but i do also like to keep my personal stuff confidential, ie when someone breaks up w/ me, i do NOT want people to know because i'll feel like a loser
    __________________
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  23. #23
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    If you're going to write a self-description as Mimosa suggests, I would recommend doing it before reading any other descriptions.

    Most importantly, try to write about what matters to you, what makes you happiest, what angers you easily, what makes you feel the most shut down.

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