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  • All Reinin dichotomies are useful.

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  • Some Reinin dichotomies are useful, others not.

    6 60.00%
  • All Reinin dichotomies are rather useless.

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Thread: Reinin dichotomies

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    Default Reinin dichotomies

    Both DeLong and Ganin consider Reinin dichotomies rather useless. Nevertheless, some people on this forum seem to use them frequently. Even Augusta considered them a discovery...

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    Reinin Dichotomies are very useful... and it will become a very easy way/tool for you to type people, if you study it thoroughly enough. The user Smilingeyes' posts on this forum usually have very good information on Reinin Dichotomies, and they're very thorough.

    The good thing about Reinin Dichotomies is that they're not very vague or abstract like the function descriptions or the Model A. They're very concrete and easy enough to understand... You can easily fit each of the Reinin Dichotomies to each persons/types.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    This dichotomy is suggested in descriptions (for example when they say that ILE can see you after a long time and talk to you like no time has passed since your previous encounter)
    Haha are you kidding... I have an ILE brother... and after a while he will talk to you as if you're a stranger... as if he doesn't even know you. He's not exactly very healthy though...

    ILEs are perhaps one of the most inconsistent types. They will keep an interest in something for around 2 weeks, tops, and then they will find some new things to pursue. They are the type that is constantly changing and trying out new things.

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    @Pinocchio: Odd, but that idea is familiar to me. I do tend to pick up relationships like no time has passed between them...

    Can this be explained by one dimensional Fi?

    Admitting that time has passed and "things have changed," with regard to my relationship to people, is an uncomfortable thought.

    *edit: actually, considering it more I have always thought of myself as unchanging. I feel like the "same person" now as I was when I was a child. Why fix what's not broken?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    ILEs are perhaps one of the most inconsistent types. They will keep an interest in something for around 2 weeks, tops, and then they will find some new things to pursue. They are the type that is constantly changing and trying out new things.
    They along with SEE. I recall SEEs being called "opportunists" in another thread... I think it's EP+Positivist.

    (And yes, I use Reinin dichotomies... generally their Smilexian interpretation.)



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    Quote Originally Posted by pinnochio
    Oh, I *think* that I heard only the "Non-Deterministic" ones saying "this is something that will change your life", but not sure. In any case, I surely heard no Delta saying such thing. I'll research further.
    It's always amazed me when people buy into that sort of thing, it's almost like the thing that if it's said, I assume it's meant in jest, but apparently not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post

    Maybe, I didn't check it, but I suppose that's not related to this dichotomy.

    How do one-dimensional functions usually manifest?
    Dimensionality of functions - Wikisocion

    In the situation you described, 1d Fi works like this:

    ILE has friend "Joe". Joe is a specific human being made of matter who has the label "Joe"

    ILE and Joe separate for a few years

    ILE and Joe meet back up; If it is the same matter (thinking-matter, feeling-energy), then it (Joe) must follow the same rules as before, and therefore it is the same person. It wouldn't make sense if the ILE treats Joe differently. If Joe treats the ILE differently, the ILE will feel a polr hit. Joe in this case would be basing his relational judgements on something other than matter (he is basing it on some new contextual energy he feels).

    *note: This is about a field between ILE and Joe. ILE's being Ne leading can make intuitions that bypass sensory comparison, but in the realm of static fields ILE's are quite annoyed by "unseen energies or circumstances". If it is the same case here, it should be the same case there.

    ILE's don't really even have "1dFi" (or Fi at all). Consciously, they experience a "missing spot" they cannot perceive into that other people are making judgements on. But it is convenient to discuss these experiences as "1dFi"

    Also, this is why we call it "polr hit". It's not a continuous thing the ILE contemplates, but a temporary and startling experience (one dimensional; simple points that make line). A similar thing happens with 1dSi, except that it is unconscious and pleasant.

    Traveling along one dimension, you can only look backwards at past mistakes and moments. You cannot see your line next to other lines, you cannot expect when lines will meet, etc.

    You're just a kid now, I don't know if you can realize it, so at least this part of this dichotomy (because I'm sure it has other aspects as well). You have to change location, jobs, an then...
    Oh, I *think* that I heard only the "Non-Deterministic" ones saying "this is something that will change your life", but not sure. In any case, I surely heard no Delta saying such thing. I'll research further.
    Well I have noticed people as old as I am changing themselves (their interests, their mannerisms, their social groups, etc) whereas I have not. This is something I've considered privately and it was interesting that you brought it up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    Archon, I don't know if I understood you correctly, but here's my opinion on what you said:
    - If you're talking about Fi PoLR, this is explainable by the incompatibility within Model A, without any other dimensionality requirement.
    Dimensionality just adds a more primary mechanism to the functions. Model A may explain the same thing, but the dimensions are clarifying.

    That would be like saying we only need type descriptions, but no descriptions of the elements

    - Why would this happen in ILE only, but not SLE as well? SLE has the same Fi positioning.
    Yep, I just concentrated on ILE.

    - I don't think that what you described relates Fi PoLR. Afaik, ILEs are understanding with such persons (especially if they have something else on their mind, they'd probably be glad of it) and anyway it would have been Fi PoLR in other specific circumstances, for example if Joe was coming with a demand for conformity.
    Yeah, I was attempting to be general. I don't go to every old friend and analyze how they feel about me now as opposed to before. It's a vague feeling of disappointment and anxiety when it has happened, though.

    - "other than matter" is Fe as well, and that I'd really call "energy" . So what's the problem with Joe using energy?
    Aushra said sensing dealt with "space", intuition "time", logic "matter", and ethics "energy".

    I agree that Fe is most like energy, but I've entertained the idea that Fi is as well.

    The problem is that Joe is making judgements on some energy or vibe that he feels between objects. Fe is internal objective, so while it may be wavering and almost haphazard, it at least gives a nod towards Ti contextual consistency. To Fi, the energy of relations would change based on objective Te matter. So Fi seems inconsistent and circumstantial (although it may be the case that I am wrong here and this is just how polr is felt).

    - ILEs has 1D Si as well, that is probably "matter", I suppose? Why this doesn't affect the meeting?
    Si would actually be "space" by Aushra's thinking.


    And no, Si (for ILE) acts continuously, that's the contentment. Unlike Fe, Si is continuously needed by the ILE, not in bursts. I would have told you how it manifests continuously, but as long as you think you're an ILE, you most probably think you know it already.
    I would like to know anyways, because I could be wrong lol or I may have the same idea as you and I am describing it wrong.
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    Reinin Dichotomies are just another method of typing people, but every time there's a new method of typing people, no matter what it is, it usually contradicts a previous method of typing people. You say there is a correlation between certain sociotypes, their combination of information elements, and this new dichotomy you think is worth including, but of the specific cases which aren't correlated, and it is in the likelihood that many are not, there is contradiction. It is always best to have as little contradition as possible. The best way to type people is understanding the information elements and quadra (which are basically the same thing) and then understanding the relationships between them. Classic object and field understanding of socionics, where neither can really contradict each other. Any other additions to Socionics put these originating factors out of place, and it is these new Russian Socionicists that come along and want to recreate or confuse what is already known.

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    The funny thing about the reinin traits is that all of them that are useful are also redundant. Merry/Serious and Reasonable/Resolute don't really "do" anything for you when you already know about the quadras and function values, nor does Democracy do anything beyond specifying something that opposite clubs and opposite quadras have in common (which obviously can never be a very distinct similarity considering we are talking about opposites here).

    The only Reinin Dichotomy that is interesting for it's own sake is Process/Result. It is dependent on +/- on one hand and Accepting/Creating on the other. The latter of these is a very, very strong descriptor, so if anything can demonstrate the existance of something as vague as +/-, Accepting/Creating is it. Taciturn/Narrator, which depends on the weak Introvert/Extrovert dichotomy of functions instead, is almost impossible to really pin down.

    edit:
    Oh right, I forget Positivist/Negativist, which depends on +/- and Limiting/Empowering. Limiting/Empowering is a strong descriptor, but superficial. The same can be said of Positivist/Negativist as a consequence. When you look at the whole of a person, you won't see something positivistic or negativistic as a whole package. It's always aspects of the behavior that are to be classified as either. Process/Result is more interesting, because it determines how said superficial quality is distributed over said aspects (the Static and Dynamic valued functions, to be precise)...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    I actually find the descriptions I find pretty vague. What descriptions did you use? For example for Judicious/Decisive.
    Oh, well that's why I recommended the Smilingeyes' posts. They're all very fairly thorough... and shit. I don't know where he gets all the informations from, but they're often very good I think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    OK, but this would not explain why this dichotomy would not apply to SLE in the same manner. Then if you take in ILI and SEE... too much for it to stand.
    It does apply to SLE in a similar manner.

    Still, Fi and Fe have the same dimensionality in the ILE psyche.
    No they don't, at least not by the theory. The 4th and 5th functions are 1d (polr and suggestive) and in ILE's case it is Fi and Si.

    Be it. How does this answer the question, though?
    I don't understand what you're asking.

    I'm sure you could be wrong .
    Now really, I'm not telling you because you copy and use it later to pose as an ILE, I want to avoid that and keep it for refuting you.
    Whatever it takes, man

    But as long as you an Vero identify so much with each other, maybe you could ask her for help. The only problem is that she doesn't use to add personal, original insights, but she uses standard descriptions and keywods. The moment she leaves the official descriptions she suddenly becomes an ILI, this is strange... but you'll figure out a way .
    Too bad I've actually met Vero, and calling her ILI is at best laughable.
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