Am I an unhealthy LII?

[Zed]

Two apologies, first, if I'm asking too many newbie questions, I am in the process of reading the linked articles. Secondly, I'm sorry for being so extraordinarily self-absorbed, but it is the sick who need doctors.

I'm trying to figure out what exactly is going on inside my head. I understand from reading other threads on this forum, that a function that is too strong, or too weak makes an "unhealthy" psyche.

The current situation: procrastination. I ignore very important tasks until the very last minute. I write essays for Varsity the morning they must be handed in. Usually, whenever I have a list of things to do on a particular day, I spend the entire day thinking about the best way to go about doing those things, and then I revise the plan, over and over, and never get to work. I guess this is the result of overused Ti killing off my Se .

Then there are the social aspects. Example : I usually don't greet people, because I don't know what the etiquette is, when to greet, and when not to? I've never spoken to this person before, so do I do it now or not? Even if I decide to greet, I then have to will myself to do it, and most often fail. Can I blame this on weak Fi and Se ? Or is it just because I need to seriously get out more?

I need to take more showers, and not forget to brush my teeth.

My room is an epic mess.

I was normal... well, almost normal a few years ago, though. Here is what I think happened, in light of the new ideas I've come across on this forum. I was quite heavily infatuated with an ESE girl. I was rejected by her, but I guess being the only Fe-ESE girl I've ever gotten to know I really found it hard to forget her. I would sit around for hours, trying to figure a way out of the situation, how to win her over, why I was different from the jocks she would date... argh! This was the aim of my life for a year and a half. Excessive use of Ti?

Perhaps my Se weakened way too much during this time?

My mother is an INFj. Could her strong Fi coupled with the fact that I have a rather large extended family, which meant a whole lot of having to be polite and mannered growing up, have anything to do with the fact that Fi causes me so much stress?

Lastly, I make use of excessive smileys on web forums. Does part of me think being a little ESE is going to help me socially?

If you can help me, I will be greatly indebted to you.

[OnePiece]

You're a healthy ILI.

[Zed]

You're a healthy ILI.

LOL, no. I can imagine why you would think so, but you are wrong.

[ArchonAlarion]

You can be an LII and also unhealthy, but socionics isn't a self-actualization theory imo.

I think you are likely LII though.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Trevor]

The current situation: procrastination. I ignore very important tasks until the very last minute. I write essays for Varsity the morning they must be handed in. Usually, whenever I have a list of things to do on a particular day, I spend the entire day thinking about the best way to go about doing those things, and then I revise the plan, over and over, and never get to work. I guess this is the result of overused Ti killing off my Se .

This is the result of overused Ne killing off your productivity. I can totally relate to this. The best cure to it is to just go out and do your thing. You might as well forget what you were thinking about the best way to go about doing those things and act on a whim instead. You'll surprise yourself and perhaps your surroundings by the produced results.

Then there are the social aspects. Example : I usually don't greet people, because I don't know what the etiquette is, when to greet, and when not to? I've never spoken to this person before, so do I do it now or not? Even if I decide to greet, I then have to will myself to do it, and most often fail. Can I blame this on weak Fi and Se ? Or is it just because I need to seriously get out more?

Do you really need to greet them? If you feel you do need to and don't do it after all then the feeling of guilt is inevitable. I can totally relate to not greeting people, however I feel no guilt because I don't feel that I'm supposed to greet them or something.
Do you need to seriously get out more? I think you know the answer. What's the worth of it? What's your goal?

I need to take more showers, and not forget to brush my teeth.

My room is an epic mess.

I can totally relate to this. I guess we need to take more showers, and not forget to brush our teeth. Because when you're clean the other things kinda just fall into their place.

I was normal... well, almost normal a few years ago, though. Here is what I think happened, in light of the new ideas I've come across on this forum. I was quite heavily infatuated with an ESE girl. I was rejected by her, but I guess being the only Fe-ESE girl I've ever gotten to know I really found it hard to forget her. I would sit around for hours, trying to figure a way out of the situation, how to win her over, why I was different from the jocks she would date... argh! This was the aim of my life for a year and a half. Excessive use of Ti?

If you indeed are LII, I'd say it's the excessive use of Ne. Advice for winning her over: emulating the behavior of jocks she would date because she apparently falls for that.

Perhaps my Se weakened way too much during this time?

Whoever uses Ne excessively has a weak Se.

My mother is an INFj.

I can totally relate to this.

Could her strong Fi coupled with the fact that I have a rather large extended family, which meant a whole lot of having to be polite and mannered growing up, have anything to do with the fact that Fi causes me so much stress?

Hm, I don't quite think so.

General advice: Get yourself some kind of a mission, a very personal war or something. This will also pull you more towards Ti (assuming you're Ne-LII who is kind of sick and tired of overthinking things (IJ-Ne tends to overthink things)).

[Absurd]

If you indeed are LII, I'd say it's the excessive use of Ne. Advice for winning her over: emulating the behavior of jocks she would date because she apparently falls for that.

Even in bed.

[Trevor]

Even in bed.

Who'd know.

[electric sheep]

lol you're just like me, down to the INFj mother and writing the essays as late as possible, though I always do them the night before they're due. I think the constantly thinking about them rather than doing them has something to do with performance anxiety and perfectionism. By the time you sit down and do it, you don't want to struggle, you just want to get it done.

I used to (and still do) fall really hard for girls, but being constantly let down by them has tempered it somewhat. Whatever girl you're obsessing over, even though I don't know her, I can probably tell she isn't a perfect human being in any way. Sure she fits all the criteria, and I'm sure you'd be willing to accommodate all of her imperfections, and I bet you think that if you do everything imaginable for her then that would compel her to stick around, but it doesn't work that way. She has a life to lead, and she will do what she thinks she must do to have a good life. You too have a life to lead, and you must not let some skank ruin that for you.

About greeting people, who is the primary person in this interaction? You are the one who should decide that. Damn what you're supposed to do. It's like you're accommodating them before you even know them. Say hi or don't, it's your choice. I take it you're not used to making your own decisions?

[electric sheep]

to answer your question, no I don't think you're an unhealthy LII--you're just having a mild identity crisis. It's really hard when the people you have worked so hard to please simply disappear from your life. What do I do now?

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[JuJu]

Two apologies, first, if I'm asking too many newbie questions, I am in the process of reading the linked articles. Secondly, I'm sorry for being so extraordinarily self-absorbed, but it is the sick who need doctors.

I'm trying to figure out what exactly is going on inside my head. I understand from reading other threads on this forum, that a function that is too strong, or too weak makes an "unhealthy" psyche.

The current situation: procrastination. I ignore very important tasks until the very last minute. I write essays for Varsity the morning they must be handed in. Usually, whenever I have a list of things to do on a particular day, I spend the entire day thinking about the best way to go about doing those things, and then I revise the plan, over and over, and never get to work. I guess this is the result of overused Ti killing off my Se .

Then there are the social aspects. Example : I usually don't greet people, because I don't know what the etiquette is, when to greet, and when not to? I've never spoken to this person before, so do I do it now or not? Even if I decide to greet, I then have to will myself to do it, and most often fail. Can I blame this on weak Fi and Se ? Or is it just because I need to seriously get out more?

I need to take more showers, and not forget to brush my teeth.

My room is an epic mess.

I was normal... well, almost normal a few years ago, though. Here is what I think happened, in light of the new ideas I've come across on this forum. I was quite heavily infatuated with an ESE girl. I was rejected by her, but I guess being the only Fe-ESE girl I've ever gotten to know I really found it hard to forget her. I would sit around for hours, trying to figure a way out of the situation, how to win her over, why I was different from the jocks she would date... argh! This was the aim of my life for a year and a half. Excessive use of Ti?

Perhaps my Se weakened way too much during this time?

My mother is an INFj. Could her strong Fi coupled with the fact that I have a rather large extended family, which meant a whole lot of having to be polite and mannered growing up, have anything to do with the fact that Fi causes me so much stress?

Lastly, I make use of excessive smileys on web forums. Does part of me think being a little ESE is going to help me socially?

If you can help me, I will be greatly indebted to you.

I relate to what you wrote about the ESE girl... The first time I dated my dual I found it very hard to forget her... In fact, I still think of her sometimes, (among other LSIs I've dated since.)

From your post, it's evident to me that you value Fe > Fi... It's not just the use of emoticons that shows it, but the emotional force of the language you use.

If what you wrote is accurate, it sounds like you've just gotten into the habit of obsessing... And it's negatively impacting your life to a degree that it's difficult for you to get things done... I've done it before too. (I imagine that many people here have.)

Honestly, I'm not sure that your current difficulties are Socionics-related... I imagine that a lot of introverts (and logicals) can relate to what you write about social etiquette and appropriateness... I'm not sure that Ti is over-involved, (although if you're LII, I bet that it is involved in some way.)

What you wrote about Fi is interesting... I'm EIE and I flat-out don't understand the nuances of Fi to the point that when other people are using it it pisses me off... Could you elaborate more on that??

I'm interested, what do you like about being LII..? Studying this stuff, I've realized that every type has special capabilities... I'm wondering what you think the benefits are... I'm asking b/c this could help me understand the problem more.

Good luck man

[krieger]

The current situation: procrastination. I ignore very important tasks until the very last minute. I write essays for Varsity the morning they must be handed in. Usually, whenever I have a list of things to do on a particular day, I spend the entire day thinking about the best way to go about doing those things, and then I revise the plan, over and over, and never get to work. I guess this is the result of overused Ti killing off my Se .

My room is an epic mess.

I have the same symptoms.

[Krig the Viking]

Two apologies, first, if I'm asking too many newbie questions, I am in the process of reading the linked articles. Secondly, I'm sorry for being so extraordinarily self-absorbed, but it is the sick who need doctors.

I'm trying to figure out what exactly is going on inside my head. I understand from reading other threads on this forum, that a function that is too strong, or too weak makes an "unhealthy" psyche.

Having read over your post, I don't think you sound unhealthy. What you describe are just the normal LII responses to stress, heartbreak, and loneliness. Pretty much everything you've written is familiar to me and most other LIIs.

The current situation: procrastination. I ignore very important tasks until the very last minute. I write essays for Varsity the morning they must be handed in. Usually, whenever I have a list of things to do on a particular day, I spend the entire day thinking about the best way to go about doing those things, and then I revise the plan, over and over, and never get to work. I guess this is the result of overused Ti killing off my Se.

Yeah, that seems to be a common problem for Alpha NTs, it certainly is for me. The key is interest. If I'm not interested in something, I am almost incapable of doing it, especially if there's a deadline. On the other hand, if something really catches my interest, I can work for hours and days and even sometimes weeks on it, barely stopping for meals and sleep.

I also find that this can be due to a lack of Fe. If I haven't been around Fe-generating people in a while, I run down like a robot low on batteries -- I become listless and apathetic, and I find it difficult to take much of an interest in anything. And lacking interest in anything, I find it difficult to actually do anything, and wind up procrastinating and watching TV/surfing the Internet (i.e., passive entertainment).

The key is to find an Fe-generating person and spend some time with that person. An ESE if possible, but anyone with decent Fe will do. You'll come home feeling better and more capable of tackling projects, at least for a while. However, you do have to be careful to resist falling back into the old, listless thought-patterns.

Then there are the social aspects. Example : I usually don't greet people, because I don't know what the etiquette is, when to greet, and when not to? I've never spoken to this person before, so do I do it now or not? Even if I decide to greet, I then have to will myself to do it, and most often fail. Can I blame this on weak Fi and Se ? Or is it just because I need to seriously get out more?

This is mostly Role Fi. Mainly, what you need here is an Fe-Ego type to give you an Fi "script" for your Role function to act out in these situations. Obviously, ESE would be ideal for this, but other Fe-Egos will suffice in a pinch. I don't know how well an Fi-Ego would work for this -- they might tend to take it too seriously and make you feel bad for sucking at it.

Something to remember for things like this is that if it's a weak function, it's really not your responsibility. Every member of the socion has a role to play in society. Making first contact in social situations is not your "job", so to speak. With Role Fi, you can be expected to respond appropriately when someone makes contact with you, but you can't be expected to make first contact yourself, any more than a man in a wheelchair can be expected to be a quarterback in the NFL.

When you're at a party or social gathering or whatever, just remember that it's not your responsibility to get out there and initiate contact with people if you don't feel like it. You don't have to feel bad about hanging off to the side and observing things. If someone takes the initiative and comes over to talk, great! If not, no worries. Do vector calculus in your head, or something.

I need to take more showers, and not forget to brush my teeth.

My room is an epic mess.

Seriously, doing these things will make you feel surprisingly better. We LIIs are not super-great at taking care of Si matters, but with a little effort it can be done. Don't worry too much about holding yourself to standards of perfection, though -- Si is still a weak function, and you can't be expected to be perfect in that area. But yeah, shower, brush your teeth, and go out and face the world in a presentable manner, and life will suddenly start to seem not quite as insurmountable as it had.

I was normal... well, almost normal a few years ago, though. Here is what I think happened, in light of the new ideas I've come across on this forum. I was quite heavily infatuated with an ESE girl. I was rejected by her, but I guess being the only Fe-ESE girl I've ever gotten to know I really found it hard to forget her. I would sit around for hours, trying to figure a way out of the situation, how to win her over, why I was different from the jocks she would date... argh! This was the aim of my life for a year and a half. Excessive use of Ti?

Perhaps my Se weakened way too much during this time?

Pining over an ESE for a year and a half? Haha, try three years (as I've done)! This is a perfectly normal, if extremely unpleasant, aspect of being an LII. Being quiet and observant, we tend to recognize what socionics labels "Duality" way, way before ESEs typically do -- if they ever do.

However, I don't think "behaving like a jock" is the answer, as Tuturututu proposed. You're right, you are in fact far superior than the jocks (Beta STs?) she used to date, at least as far as compatibility with her goes. Her rejection of you is her mistake, not yours. You basically have to be patient and hope she grows up and realizes what she's really looking for, or move on and hope you meet someone else. Neither option is particularly pleasant. Unfortunately, there are no easy answers to this situation.

My mother is an INFj. Could her strong Fi coupled with the fact that I have a rather large extended family, which meant a whole lot of having to be polite and mannered growing up, have anything to do with the fact that Fi causes me so much stress?

Heh, my mom is EII as well, so I know what you're going through. I'm pretty sure your theory is correct. Like I said above, the key is to ignore your mother's insistance that you be all polite and Fi, and remember that you're not good at Fi, and it's not your responsibility to deal with that stuff. Your responsibility, as an LII, is to make sure everything is logical and makes sense.

Lastly, I make use of excessive smileys on web forums. Does part of me think being a little ESE is going to help me socially?

Haha, I do this too. Probably an Fi thing -- we don't want anyone to misread our emotional state and thereby accidentally damage our Fi relationships. Personally, though, I think everybody would be improved by being a little bit ESE.

[krieger]

Then there are the social aspects. Example : I usually don't greet people, because I don't know what the etiquette is, when to greet, and when not to? I've never spoken to this person before, so do I do it now or not? Even if I decide to greet, I then have to will myself to do it, and most often fail. Can I blame this on weak Fi and Se ? Or is it just because I need to seriously get out more?

This looks a little strange to me, coming from an INTj. I generally take INTjs to be quite polite people despite that they are so socially reserved. Greeting people in a natural way is not generally something I have a problem with either. I think this kind of social "problem" is more common among INTps than among INTjs. Of course, this does not instantly preclude you from being INTj.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Crispy]

Anyone else finding it weird that a lot of INTj's are reporting having INFj mothers? (Me included so +1)

[Krig the Viking]

Anyone else finding it weird that a lot of INTj's are reporting having INFj mothers? (Me included so +1)

Yeah, it's getting a bit strange. What are we up to now, five? Zed, tuturututu, electric sheep, you, me... Glamourama's Self-Typings list includes 24 LIIs, and given random distribution of types it should work out to 1.5 INFj mothers for the lot of us. Even bumping that up to 32 to account for unlisted LIIs, there still should only be 2 INFj mothers.

It's not statistically impossible, but still quite remarkable. Especially since we all seem to be posting in this thread...

[xixi]

Anyone else finding it weird that a lot of INTj's are reporting having INFj mothers? (Me included so +1)

genetic inheritance...maybe.

[JohnDo]

genetic inheritance...maybe.

Yes, I think there is a correlation. In some families most people are intuitive, in other families most are sensory...

Growing up with an INFj mother must be like paradise for an INTj. My mother is an (unhealthy) ENFj so I grew up in hell :frown:

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[JohnDo]

The problem is that you're not an LII. I suspect Gamma NT, but am not certain.

Edit: this hypothesis is interesting but it assumes that each is correctly typed, which I doubt in your case.

Krig typed me IEI once, Hitzipochtli said ILI.

The problem is that I am H-LII so my Ni is stronger than usual...

And don't say Gamma-NT again!! Gamma-NTs are my worst enemies besides EIE...

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[JohnDo]

OK . It was just a suggestion, the main issue was your natural tendency to validate through official vs unofficial things - this includes our previous discussion.

Not really. I think there is nothing official about socionics at all. Are Augusta's typings "official socionics typings"? Not really, she certainly mistyped some people. Are Gulenko's ideas "official socionics theories"? Not really, some of his ideas are accepted, others not.

Could you please explain why you got the impression that I am interested in official things only?

Note your similarity with Jarno and other Serious (Fi/Te) types who are concerned about what's accepted by Russian socionists.

Yeah, I found it quite confusing that Jarno agreed with most of my statements. I even thought of questioning his self-typing. But he is probably N-ILI with strengthened Ti while I am H-LII with strengthened Ni. Subtypes are very clarifying sometimes...

Through this, you contrast in an extreme manner with any Alpha NT who initially dismiss anything which they can't understand logically, even if it worked for others.

That's not true. Cartesian doubt is great...

In opposition, Gamma NTs first try what worked for other people previously, especially when these persons are important/renown, they tend investigate why these things don't make sense for themselves, maybe they have done or understood something wrong.

Yeah. I (GheGuevara) was banned once for disagreeing with the aristocracy. Not common for a Gamma-NT...

Since then I try to be serious instead of merry because I don't want to get banned again.

[electric sheep]

lol if you want to argue about his type, there's a thread for that.

[ArchonAlarion]

I find LIIs I know to be actually clumsy when it comes to greetings and manners. My impression is that they need a point in everything they do, something they need to understand, but these actions have no logical explanation, especially because they vary largely without defined rules. They ask themselves "why?" and they can't find an answer, because there's no such answer.
I find LSIs to be (usually) mannered and natural, knowing almost instinctively what's appropriate to do in social interactions.

I have seen LII's do both of the above. The truth is that LII's feel uncomfortable with such interactions and will respond overly formal or awkward. I have the same issue.

[ArchonAlarion]

Yeah. I (GheGuevara) was banned once for disagreeing with the aristocracy. Not common for a Gamma-NT...

Since then I try to be serious instead of merry because I don't want to get banned again.

You were more banned as a result of your annoying, persistent, somewhat rude, and absolutely silly beliefs.

But even that is not the whole story. You were banned because it was circumstantially amusing to do so. It was like an inside joke enacted for our benefit and not yours

That being said, I don't really mind you. Just another stubborn LII for me to duel with

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[ArchonAlarion]

It's mutual, man

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[ArchonAlarion]

Nah, I think you are ILE and have never had reason to believe otherwise. I meant that I cannot trust your typings.

[JohnDo]

- it's about the other thread, I told you, you took the dimensionality as a fact and on it you built your concept.

It's not because Bukalov or Gulenko see it like that. I check everything I read against reality, of course.

- I noticed the similarity between you and other serious types as well, I have no idea of your agreements/disagreements with Jarno. Socionically, this makes sense and my observation confirms this to me.

I am not serious. I just try not to be merry because I don't want to get banned again.

- I don't agree neither use the DHCN (is this correct?) model. I was taking you in the Socionics context. If that H-LII is some sort of ILI, I have nothing against it, just I think it's odd to talk in different terms. Maybe you should have specified the model you used first, Model A is implicit.

DCNH is just an extension of model a, a sub-temperament theory wich is really useful. You should read about it...

- you seem to not understand Merry/Serious

Of course I do. Alphas and Betas are merry, Gammas and Deltas are serious. So I am merry because I am Alpha - or I am Alpha because I am merry... whatever...

[electric sheep]

I'm so tired of this shit. This is Zed's thread god damn it. Take your bullshit arguments somewhere else.

Zed, do you see what happens when you leave a thread to idle like this? It just devolves into a theoretical pissing match. They're actually being quite good right now, I've seen worse.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Krig the Viking]

Growing up with an INFj mother must be like paradise for an INTj. My mother is an (unhealthy) ENFj so I grew up in hell :frown:

Growing up with your base function unvalued by your family is not really ideal. It was quiet and there was little drama or conflict, but also little opportunity for personal growth.

Krig typed me IEI once, Hitzipochtli said ILI.

IEI was just a possibility I mentioned once. At this point, I suspect you are in fact LII (though that's only a 35% or so certainty and I may change my mind later). The reason I dislike you so much is that all of the weaknesses I see in myself, which I take steps to counteract and compensate for, I see strongly in you, uncounteracted and uncompensated for. Like, for example, the tendency to believe things because they're interesting, not because they've been demonstrated to be true.

However, if I were to base my opinion solely on your posts here, I would guess you are either Dominant or Creative, not Harmonizing, as you seem to constantly go around provoking conflict rather than avoiding it. But I'm only around 50% certain of that, so again, it's not a strong opinion. It's in a box in my brain labeled "unresolved question".

I would like to take your opinion into consideration, but as long as you could not correctly type the people on the forum (including yourself), how could I trust that you typed well the people you know?
I'll think you have a rather distorted idea about Socionics types and quadras, I'm afraid I won't be able to think otherwise until I see you typing correctly.

If it helps, I agree with Archon on this, and I am definitely an LII (although I'm somewhat interested to see if you agree). I try to be as formal as possible, because the rules of polite manners are a Ti system that I can understand and act upon. However, in our modern casual society, formal rules don't always apply, so I tend to be clumsy in unfamiliar situations.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[ArchonAlarion]

You can make anything into "Ti".

I don't think manners have any point, but I'll do them simply because I don't feel like dealing with all the shit you get from not having good manners and also because I am not socially adept enough to balance good/bad manners like some people do to achieve social manipulation.

Also, being formal and polite keeps everything clean and easy to remember. I can rely on social scripts somewhat, for universality.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[ArchonAlarion]

I did not ban Che, nor did I think he'd actually be banned.

I gave the reason why people felt negative towards him and hence how Gilly got away with banning him. One of those reasons is because his forceful way of typing people was considered rude (in the same way that people consider Marista rude).

The second quote is misleading, which is my fault. Some people believe that "good manners" are an intrinsic good. I believe they serve an end, which I went on to explain in that quote.

Further, manners are not the direct opposite of rude. There are many things considered manners that people ignore and most would not call them rude. Waiting till everyone finishes eating at a dinner table is good manners in some cultures, but not many would call you rude for leaving early in others. This is because some things are universally considered rude (like spitting on your neighbor's dog), whereas manners seem to imply a specific system to follow. Rude was meant in a universally dislikable way in that post. By manners I meant "culturally specific etiquette".

So, no lie from how I see it.