Allie

[Lotus]

considering LSI for the first time… maybe.

[Morcheeba]

would you be willing to post pics of yourself? I've had a few LSI girlfriends and I notice their is a distinct look in their eyes.

[Wynch]

considering LSI for the first time… maybe.

Hah! That just made my evening. It probably shouldn't, but I'm job-hunting so tonight's a bad night and this is its highlight.

[strrrng]

It is fitting.

[xerx]

Yeah I've been saying LSI for a year now. More D/Je subtype though, since you're not as concerned with showing any analytical skills. D also fits with what some people (notably other Ds ) have perceived as a manipulative/bitchy personality.

Can't believe I ever thought SEE. Was still learning Socionics.

[strrrng]

I doubt D/Je subtype, and think suggestions of bitchy aggressiveness are superficial and potentially projected (i.e. thepirate's hasty characterization based on an impression of one post). I would lean more C/Pe subtype, as it still possesses an interactive quality, without so much direct (emotional) control exerted, and a stronger reactivity.

[xerx]

I doubt D/Je subtype, and think suggestions of bitchy aggressiveness are superficial and potentially projected (i.e. thepirate's hasty characterization based on an impression of one post). I would lean more C/Pe subtype, as it still maintains an interactive quality, without so much direct (emotional) control exerted, and a stronger reactivity.

I'm not talking about thepirate. I mean other more prominent members of the community/stickam.

When I said bitchy/manipulative I meant someone who plays political games, which she probably does or she wouldn't have come into conflict with others who do (ie. other Ds). She's been at the epicenter of forum drama for the past year and a half, so I doubt every accusation is being projected.

A C subtype of LSI would be far, far less interested in power, politics, social status or any other such mumbo jumbo, but which has been her entire motivation since she arrived. C makes no sense in the context of a classically stoic Ti-dominant; only D can explain her behavior.

She's also shown very little appreciation for analytical logic, which she wouldn't have if she was a static subtype. Chris Langan is IMO probably a C LSI.

[thePirate]

LSI for her. Allie, you are an oddball. I dont claim to know LSI's well, Im just really starting to get acquainted with them. I do think you are one for reasons stated in another thread, among other things, but this is still a tentative typing to me. You seem to have contradicted yourself alot, all I know is ESI is a stretch of the imagination. You do or say things that would seem indicative of Fi, but then your reactions and the way you say things just aren't matching up. Maybe theres another piece of the puzzle I'm not seeing, but I'm betting that you just typed yourself wrong. I have yet to see a proper breakdown of why you are ESI, no one defended you in the gamma thread I made. A strong indicator that I feel points to LSI is your post in the forum identicals thread, about how you resonate with calenwen in a way you don't with others here; calenwen being a former ESI - now LSI. You also seem to relate to Diana to a good degree, who was also a former ESI gone LSI.

[strrrng]

I'm not talking about thepirate. I mean other more prominent members of the community/stickam.

When I said bitchy/manipulative I meant someone who plays political games, which she probably does or she wouldn't have come into conflict with others who do (ie. other Ds). She's been at the epicenter of forum drama for the past year and a half, so I doubt every accusation is being projected.

Which people do you see as being D subtypes, whom she has come into political conflict with?

[Morcheeba]

I think posting a pic or a vid of yourself will determine alot more for people like myself who know very little about you. I think in that context, I could determine if I pic up duality vibes, imo.

[strrrng]

After hearing about discojoe's picture hoarding fetish, I wouldn't be surprised at some reticence.

[xerx]

Which people do you see as being D subtypes, whom she has come into political conflict with?

I'm not privy to any details of the stickam interactions. And even if I were, I'd rather not give out names like that. But C subtype would rarely be involved in any heated dramatics that don't involve his pet theories.

[strrrng]

Could a C subtype possibly manage to leverage their social position in such a way that they weren't directly involved in conflict, though it managed to transpire around them? That could make more sense for an ignoring subtype (and Allie).

[Park]

I think posting a pic or a vid of yourself will determine alot more for people like myself who know very little about you. I think in that context, I could determine if I pic up duality vibes, imo.

Allie, please also post your social security number and zodiac sign, so we could see if they match up and make a valid combination for LSI.

[strrrng]

lol

[Park]

Chris Langan is IMO probably a C LSI.

Ya, that's a great example to compare Allie to. The VI similarity is kind of apparent.

[xerx]

If you want my opinion (which I won't substantiate), I think you and starfall are both N subtype. And that merky, Allie, scarletlux and Gilly are D subtypes.

Could a C subtype possibly manage to leverage their social position in such a way that they weren't directly involved in conflict, though it managed to transpire around them? That could make more sense for an ignoring subtype (and Allie).

Anyone can do that if they want to avoid conflict. But a C subtype wouldn't inspire so much around them in the first place unless it involved an attack on his theories. (At least according to Gulenko).

[strrrng]

Ya, that's a great example to compare Allie to. The VI similarity is kind of apparent.

He's bitchy and aggressive, as well.

[xerx]

He's bitchy and aggressive, as well.

Well then I retract what I said about his subtype, seeing as how I never studied him.

[strrrng]

If you want my opinion (which I won't substantiate), I think you and starfall are both N subtype. And that merky, Allie, scarletlux and Gilly are D subtypes.

Interesting. I definitely agree on scarlettlux and merky (unless he's C), and am somewhat inclined to agree on Gilly, despite considering H subtype for him.

I can see the commonality between myself and starfall – additionally, why crazedrat and I are so similar (as I believe him to be N subtype).

Anyone can do that if they want to avoid conflict. But a C subtype wouldn't inspire so much around them in the first place unless it involved an attack on his theories. (At least according to Gulenko).

How about an enneagram 3?

[Park]

He's bitchy and aggressive, as well.

Plus he's the same age & sex as Allie, so it's easy to see the resemblance.

[strrrng]

I see what you mean.

[strrrng]

Well then I retract what I said about his subtype, seeing as how I never studied him.

[Park]

I see what you mean.

I'm glad we're on the same wavelength.

Another good example in favor of Allie being LSI would be Super Mario. (Though I'm having doubts about his subtype, but we can use him for VI purposes.)

[strrrng]

Yeah, the blue eyes are uncanny.

[xerx]

How about an enneagram 3?

What do you mean?

Would you retract your statement about Allie if I told you she was kind and compassionate?

That's irrelevant seeing as how kindness and compassion is not a definitive trait of C subtypes.

Winterpark are you alright?

[strrrng]

What do you mean?

That another subtype could incite emotional drama because of enneagram motivations.

That's irrelevant seeing as how kindness and compassion is not a definitive trait of C subtypes.

I was just mocking the Langan typing, and wondering to what degree you've observed the D subtype behaviors in Allie (as opposed to second-hand information).

[thePirate]

Plus he's the same age & sex as Allie, so it's easy to see the resemblance.

lmffaaaaaaao

I'm glad we're on the same wavelength.

Another good example in favor of Allie being LSI would be Super Mario. (Though I'm having doubts about his subtype, but we can use him for VI purposes.)

LOL

[717495]

Mario is clearly an SEI. This expression is proof.



What's with all the "whoo hoo" "it's a me!" It's Fe.

Get your facts straight. I don't want to have to come back here.

[xerx]

That another subtype could incite emotional drama because of enneagram motivations.

DCNH and enneagram correlate. Not nearly in all the specifics, but certainly where it concerns social interaction since DCNH is a theory about group behavior. There is no vacuum since they don't describe radically different traits. If you think exaggerating their differences is an argument, then you are an idiot.

I was just mocking the Langan typing, and wondering to what degree you've observed the D subtype behaviors in Allie (as opposed to second-hand information).

In the case of Langan, I was only retracting based on the information you provided. I haven't studied him enough to know whether or not it's true. Just like I doubt you've studied the majority of celebrities you type with whom you only have a passing familiarity.

[strrrng]

DCNH and enneagram correlate. Not nearly in all the specifics, but certainly where it concerns social interaction since DCNH is a theory about group behavior. There is no vacuum since they don't describe radically different traits. If you think exaggerating their differences is an argument, then you are an idiot.

So, they (potentially) correlate on an external, behavioral level. Great. That doesn't mean that their premises are in any way alike, or that the patterns they seek to interpret are derived from similar motivational cores.

If you think you're going to pass this argument by with a statement about apparent theoretical correlation, then you are an idiot.

In the case of Langan, I was only retracting based on the information you provided. I haven't studied him enough to know whether or not it's true. Just like I doubt you've studied the majority of celebrities you type with whom you only have a passing familiarity.

I didn't provide information; that statement was a joke. Goes to show how solid your typing was, though. I guess this should make me all-the-more confident about your assessment of Allie's subtype.

And nice presumption about my typings. Your ad hominem is transparent and pathetic.

[xerx]

So, they (potentially) correlate on an external, behavioral level. Great. That doesn't mean that their premises are in any way alike, or that the patterns they seek to interpret are derived from similar motivational cores.

If you think you're going to pass this argument by with a statement about apparent theoretical correlation, then you are an idiot.

I never said their premises or natures were remotely alike, you've diffracted from the main point in your usual style. I only implied that behaviorally they're very similar.

DCNH was created by Gulenko specifically as a tool to categorize type behavior, since he doesn't believe that sociotype correlate to behavior at all (only to the ability to solve problems). So yes, DCNH is something very palpable that's readily observed. Motivation is almost irrelevant (for typing). There is no deep meaning to it and it should correlate (by some reasonable extent) to whatever passes for group behavior in the enneagram. Assuming the enneagram makes true predictions in this area.

I didn't provide information; that statement was a joke. Goes to show how solid your typing was, though.

If it was a joke, I'll be sure never to trust your information in good faith again. I only know enough about Langan to give a speculative typing, I don't read every article about him I come across, nor would anyone want to. If trusting you makes my typings less reliable, then that says a lot about you doesn't it.

I guess this should make me all-the-more confident about your assessment of Allie's subtype.

What would labcoat say? An inductive step of tcaudillgian proportions. Well not nearly, but if Langan's typing turns out wrong, that still in no way reflects on Allie's typing.

And nice presumption about my typings. Your ad hominem is transparent and pathetic.

No ad hominem. I've seen you type on as little as VI. Your twisting of the facts is idiotic and entirely self-serving.

I'm getting tired and I don't see the point in further continuing this discussion with someone as pathetically mired in their own ignorance. Someone who has absolutely no sense of elementary logic or even intellectual decency.

[FDG]

ESI seemed fine from my perspective, especially from camera-VI. You had a shyer vibe than the LSI girls I know, which seems to project a more assured aura. Of course tho, you know yourself better than anybody else.

Obviously though, in DNHC she isn't a dominant subtype. That's glaringly obvious. Her life-goals are completely opposed to those of a D-subtype (thank god, imho).

It seems that many ESIs are changing their type to LSI. That must mean I'm not posting enough

[strrrng]

I never said their premises or natures were remotely alike, you've diffracted from the main point in your usual style. I only implied that behaviorally they're very similar.

But if they're only behaviorally similar – at best – then you writing off my enneagram suggestion (as a respectively differing explanation for her motivations toward political conflict), is flawed. Thus, back to the suggestion that enneagram could account for aspects of her observed behavior that DCNH cannot.

DCNH was created by Gulenko specifically as a tool to categorize type behavior, since he doesn't believe that sociotype correlate to behavior at all (only to the ability to solve problems). So yes, DCNH is something very palpable that's readily observed. Motivation is almost irrelevant (for typing). There is no deep meaning to it and it should correlate (by some reasonable extent) to whatever passes for group behavior in the enneagram. Assuming the enneagram makes true predictions in this area.

Re the bolded: that was the entire point of bringing up the enneagram – because I think underlying motivations are stronger beacons of, say, a person's inclination toward conflict, than behavioral descriptors.

If it was a joke, I'll be sure never to trust your information in good faith again. I only know enough about Langan to give a speculative typing, I don't read every article about him I come across, nor would anyone want to. If trusting you makes my typings less reliable, then that says a lot about you doesn't it.

If you read the previous posts, you may have been able to pick up on the fact that parkster and I were joking back and forth. No need to blame your flimsy opinions on me.

What would labcoat say? An inductive step of tcaudillgian proportions. Well not nearly, but if Langan's typing turns out wrong, that still in no way reflects on Allie's typing.

No, but it reflects on your methodology.

No ad hominem. I've seen you type on as little as VI. Your twisting of the facts is idiotic and entirely self-serving.

I'm getting tired and I don't see the point in further continuing this discussion with someone as pathetically mired in their own ignorance. Someone who has absolutely no sense of elementary logic or even intellectual decency.

Cute.

[xerx]

But if they're only behaviorally similar – at best – then you writing off my enneagram suggestion (as a respectively differing explanation for her motivations toward political conflict), is flawed. Thus, back to the suggestion that enneagram could account for aspects of her observed behavior that DCNH cannot.

Not exactly, I never said that at all. It could still correlate to whatever the enneagram says about intrinsic motivation. But the most palpable (and hence verifiable) correlations will be to behavior.

Or I just ignore this enneagram sideshow altogether, since all I care about typing her in is DCNH where IMO D is the most consistent typing and C is out of the question.

Re the bolded: that was the entire point of bringing up the enneagram – because I think underlying motivations are stronger beacons of, say, a person's inclination toward conflict, than behavioral descriptors.

No. Behaviors are the strongest beacons of someone's behavior.

Honestly, this and the fact that you mix socionics and enneagram so haphazardly is why LSI is a dumb suggestion for you. Your Ti is atrocious.

If you read the previous posts, you may have been able to pick up on the fact that parkster and I were joking back and forth. No need to blame your flimsy opinions on me.

Hardly. My opinion is back to what it was now that I realized you were joking.

No, but it reflects on your methodology.

Not in any meaningful sense.

[1981slater]

It seems that many ESIs are changing their type to LSI. That must mean I'm not posting enough

lol

Allie:

Democratic
Negativist
Declarer
Merry

[Gilly]

Allie:

Democratic

lol

[Gilly]

Could a C subtype possibly manage to leverage their social position in such a way that they weren't directly involved in conflict, though it managed to transpire around them?

Sounds like Harmonizing subtype. It's actually one of the things that is typically said about IEIs: that they can weather long conflicts and maintain positions in hierarchies by way of staying under the radar and/or always choosing the winning side.

[strrrng]

Not exactly, I never said that at all. It could still correlate to whatever the enneagram says about intrinsic motivation. But the most palpable (and hence verifiable) correlations will be to behavior.

Palpable ≠ substantial.

No. Behaviors are the strongest beacons of someone's behavior.

Once you know someone's underlying motivations, you have a ~strong beacon~ of behavior, as a potential capacity. From this point, you can extrapolate patterns regarding the ways in which behavior can manifest. If you simply observe behavior and register an array of patterns, without ever grasping their roots, simply relying on external correlations, you fall prey to a wasteland of misinterpretation.


(This sounds like another Ni/Ne conflict, as you are more concerned with establishing explicit relations between common qualities in things, whereas I am more concerned with underpinnings in peoples' behavior).

Honestly, this and the fact that you mix socionics and enneagram so haphazardly is why LSI is a dumb suggestion for you. Your Ti is atrocious.

Right, because making an enneagram suggestion about the motivations behind behavior manifest by someone I know, is so much more superficial than proffering a DCNH subtype opinion based on peripheral observation.

Hardly. My opinion is back to what it was now that I realized you were joking.

Trusting someone with information only applies if they are actually attempting to provide information; I wasn't. You trusted me with information based on a misinterpretation of my joke; that makes you ~stupid~

[Morcheeba]

Allie, please also post your social security number and zodiac sign, so we could see if they match up and make a valid combination for LSI.

Your cranky these days, dear!