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    High Priestess glam's Avatar
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    Default social dynamics

    is noticing:

    - whom gives attention to whom, and how, and why
    - the meanings behind various actions (carefully doled out flatteries, measures taken to exclude or show disdain, etc.)
    - social hierarchies and where everyone stands within them
    - the unfolding, the developments, and the general dynamics of people's relationships and interactions
    - power plays
    - double standards of people's behaviors and attitudes (ex. immediately ridiculing one person for something, yet playfully teasing another for the same thing)
    - who trusts and respects whom
    - where and to whom people's ultimate loyalties lie
    - all this and discerning what it means on a broader scale for everybody else

    type related?

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    I've been waiting for you Satan's Avatar
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    that reminds me of how some people give off a vibe of paying attention to various things. and just paying attention can be a way of communicating in itself.

    the observer becomes the observee.

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    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    is noticing:

    - whom gives attention to whom, and how, and why
    - the meanings behind various actions (carefully doled out flatteries, measures taken to exclude or show disdain, etc.)
    NF?
    - social hierarchies and where everyone stands within them
    Aristocratic
    - the unfolding, the developments, and the general dynamics of people's relationships and interactions
    Fe
    - power plays
    Fe, Se, Te?, 6, 8, 2, 5...
    - double standards of people's behaviors and attitudes (ex. immediately ridiculing one person for something, yet playfully teasing another for the same thing)
    Anyone with a brain
    - who trusts and respects whom
    - where and to whom people's ultimate loyalties lie
    - all this and discerning what it means on a broader scale for everybody else
    6?

    type related?
    .
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    Park's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    is noticing:

    - whom gives attention to whom, and how, and why
    - the meanings behind various actions (carefully doled out flatteries, measures taken to exclude or show disdain, etc.)
    - social hierarchies and where everyone stands within them
    - the unfolding, the developments, and the general dynamics of people's relationships and interactions
    - power plays
    - double standards of people's behaviors and attitudes (ex. immediately ridiculing one person for something, yet playfully teasing another for the same thing)
    - who trusts and respects whom
    - where and to whom people's ultimate loyalties lie
    - all this and discerning what it means on a broader scale for everybody else

    type related?
    Sounds like an out-of-quadra experience to me. Maybe Beta. I can probably notice most of these things (if I put myself in the right mindset) but I'd never focus or pay attention to them. Nor would I ever want to view myself or others through them, or assess a situation using those attributes. What ultimately repels me about the things you listed is that noticing has to eventually result in applying them (from the perspective they are seen of course), and for some reason that just seems wrong to me, personally. Or plain stupid and small-minded. But perhaps it isn't (strictly) type related.
    Last edited by Park; 01-25-2010 at 11:33 AM.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Uhm, I know I generally don't. If I force myself, I think I can, but it's not my natural mode of operation.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  6. #6
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    I'm not very good at this sort of stuff, I tend to just interact with most people with basic politeness but not really get involved or try to think about the various interactions and methods of social politics and stuff, I don't really think i'm good at it and i'm best not trying to do it! :-D

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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    is noticing:

    - whom gives attention to whom , and how, and why
    - the meanings behind various actions (carefully doled out flatteries, measures taken to exclude or show disdain, etc.)
    - social hierarchies and where everyone stands within them
    - the unfolding, the developments, and the general dynamics of people's relationships and interactions
    - power plays
    - double standards of people's behaviors and attitudes (ex. immediately ridiculing one person for something, yet playfully teasing another for the same thing)
    - who trusts and respects whom
    - where and to whom people's ultimate loyalties lie
    - all this and discerning what it means on a broader scale for everybody else

    type related?
    ^

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    I notice all that stuff, although certain items are stronger for me than others. Power plays and social hierarchies less so. I think sometimes I've misinterpreted a power play as something else, other times it's ragingly obvious. I'm usually better at interpreting things when they don't involve me.
    IEE

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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    is noticing:

    - whom gives attention to whom, and how, and why generally Fe -- more so the 'how' and 'why' -- but Fi could also yield insight into the underlying relation between two people that prompted a certain interaction
    - the meanings behind various actions (carefully doled out flatteries, measures taken to exclude or show disdain, etc.) Fe -- more so beta Fe, as it works in concert with Se, i.e. the observable magnitudes of people/things, supplementing the underlying meanings in their actions
    - social hierarchies and where everyone stands within them Ti/Fe axis, beta aristocratic values
    - the unfolding, the developments, and the general dynamics of people's relationships and interactions NiFe
    - power plays Se, more so beta Se
    - double standards of people's behaviors and attitudes (ex. immediately ridiculing one person for something, yet playfully teasing another for the same thing) probably Fi -- at least on a personal level; but also Fe/Ti, in noticing the shifts in social structure that either reinforce or undermine its integrity
    - who trusts and respects whom generally Fi, but depends on the respective quadra, i.e. betas will establish who trusts whom by their given position (SeTi)
    - where and to whom people's ultimate loyalties lie Fi/Ti
    - all this and discerning what it means on a broader scale for everybody else perhaps Ni extracting more general themes about Fe interactions; also plausibly Ne encompassing all the broader aspects of a set of Fi relations
    .
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    I think I notice this stuff, but agree with Tinydancer as far as not caring much about the power plays/social hierarchy. I actually make a point to ignore that sort of thing and just pretend to be clueless at times so I don't have to conform to it.

    - whom gives attention to whom, and how, and why
    (I notice this and get annoyed if people are doing things for a "fake" motivation, like kissing up to get something)

    - the meanings behind various actions (carefully doled out flatteries, measures taken to exclude or show disdain, etc.)
    (I notice the behavior, but don't look into the reason behind it much. Like, ok she's flattering that other girl...who knows why.)

    - social hierarchies and where everyone stands within them.
    (don't really care about this and prefer that everyone is more or less on the same level).

    - the unfolding, the developments, and the general dynamics of people's relationships and interactions
    (this is kind of interesting, and I'd pay attention to it. I talk about this sort of thing pretty often, like "Did you notice how annoyed she was when he said that? I don't think he likes that whole issue of xyz and it bothers her.").

    - power plays
    (I find that annoying and ignore it. I don't participate if at all possible.)

    - double standards of people's behaviors and attitudes (ex. immediately ridiculing one person for something, yet playfully teasing another for the same thing)
    I would notice this and it would annoy me.

    - who trusts and respects whom
    (I'd notice this for sure, but wouldn't dwell on it much. Just take it at face value of who is closer to whom, without wondering why).

    - where and to whom people's ultimate loyalties lie
    (I'd more or less notice this but wouldn't care much. I get annoyed if people are too rigid in their loyalties, e.g. defending someone regardless of that person maybe doing something really bad, or saying a country/soccer team/etc is the "best" when maybe it's not at that particular moment).

    - all this and discerning what it means on a broader scale for everybody else
    (Kinda. In terms of "She's being bitchy to everyone because of xyz and her best friend is supporting her because she's loyal to her, so we're all screwed and should probably just go home.).
    Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    anyway i notice these kinds of things constantly, and i can't really help that i do. i often find myself being affected by what i observe even if i am not directly involved; in general, i often ponder on and am easily affected by other people's emotional lives, and to watch them play out in the social sphere is just far too interesting for me to ignore. there are times when i wish i could be indifferent to it all, but i don't know if that's possible.
    I relate to this sentiment as it applies to most (but not all) of the things you listed. I often wonder how people constantly overlook or are ignorant to them. How can you not know that what you say, your actions, your motivations have real meaning behind them? That they are a reflection of your character and who you are? This kind of relates back to my SEE problem. I saw him not wanting to hang out with me as a greater problem (we are no longer friends; or this is not how friends treat one another) whereas he sees it as forgetting to invite me (which i think is a reflection of how much he cares about our friendship) which he also disagrees with. heh. Often times I wish I was blissfully unaware.
    “No psychologist should pretend to understand what he does not understand... Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand nothing.” -Anton Chekhov

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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    hm, what do you see as wrong about that (in the red)? of course, the awareness and knowledge of the things i listed can be used for negative manipulative purposes (is that what you were referring to?), but they can also be used otherwise (or not at all...)
    It just seems like a twisted perspective of reality and bunch of messed-up priorities. I wasn't necessarily referring to the negative manipulative purposes in which those things can be used, just the general focus and prioritization. But it's more a feeling of disgust than a feeling of right or wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    anyway i notice these kinds of things constantly, and i can't really help that i do. i often find myself being affected by what i observe even if i am not directly involved;
    I wasn't aware you were talking about yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    in general, i often ponder on and am easily affected by other people's emotional lives, and to watch them play out in the social sphere is just far too interesting for me to ignore. there are times when i wish i could be indifferent to it all, but i don't know if that's possible.
    Now that seems wrong, and I can tell you why. I don't think others' "emotional lives" are any of your business or put up for your observance and enjoyment. For me, they are highly personal, private things that are to be shared behind close doors and between people that trust and care about each-other. Seeing them as a sort of a open door carnival seems wrong and disturbing.

    But that's just my personal perspective.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    It just seems like a twisted perspective of reality and bunch of messed-up priorities. I wasn't necessarily referring to the negative manipulative purposes in which those things can be used, just the general focus and prioritization. But it's more a feeling of disgust than a feeling of right or wrong.
    Sooo.. the ethicals are supposed to somehow turn off their ego functions? We notice those things because we're wired to notice them. It's not like I can just decide to be a thinking type.

    Besides, noticing and understanding that aspect of reality easily means our duals don't have to do as much work there. Can't have your cake and eat it too.
    IEE

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny_dancer View Post
    We notice those things because we're wired to notice them.
    In that case, I'd say those wires need some fixing/rewiring. And who better do it than an SLI.

    Quote Originally Posted by tiny_dancer View Post
    Can't have your cake and eat it too.
    I once tried making Chocolate Chip cookies for myself and I over-burnt the hell out of them. I've been harassing my ESE mother to bake em for me ever since. So I think there's definitely some truth there in what you say.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post


    I once tried making Chocolate Chip cookies for myself and I over-burnt the hell out of them. I've been harassing my ESE mother to bake em for me ever since. So I think there's definitely some truth there in what you say.
    I've found that if you undercook them slightly (so they aren't brown yet) and then turn off the oven and leave them in there, they get a nice chewy-ish center with crispy edges.
    Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by jewels View Post
    I've found that if you undercook them slightly (so they aren't brown yet) and then turn off the oven and leave them in there, they get a nice chewy-ish center with crispy edges.
    That's what I figured as well! But it was too late... and I haven't been inspired to do it all by myself again.
    Last edited by Park; 01-26-2010 at 05:36 PM.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    In that case, I'd say those wires need some fixing/rewiring. And who better do it than an SLI.
    Yeeeahhh... I'm not so much into mind control. I'll pass, thnx. When you finish those cookies, though, let me know. Don't skimp on the chips.
    IEE

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    without the nose Cyrano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jewels View Post
    I've found that if you undercook them slightly (so they aren't brown yet) and then turn off the oven and leave them in there, they get a nice chewy-ish center with crispy edges.
    This is why the ENFp is like the universal blood type. They are perfect for any other type. Good cookies too.
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    without the nose Cyrano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    In that case, I'd say those wires need some fixing/rewiring. And who better do it than an SLI.



    I once tried making Chocolate Chip cookies for myself and I over-burnt the hell out of them. I've been harassing my ESE mother to bake em for me ever since. So I think there's definitely some truth there in what you say.


    HA! Lazy. You could cook them, but are content to let them be cooked for you. Can you say with a straight face that you can not bake them?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrano View Post
    HA! Lazy. You could cook them, but are content to let them be cooked for you. Can you say with a straight face that you can not bake them?
    LOL. I guess I could. Hell, I joke with a straight face all the time. I can do most anything with a straight face!!!
    Last edited by Park; 01-26-2010 at 06:00 PM.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    is noticing:

    - whom gives attention to whom, and how, and why
    - the meanings behind various actions (carefully doled out flatteries, measures taken to exclude or show disdain, etc.)
    - social hierarchies and where everyone stands within them
    - the unfolding, the developments, and the general dynamics of people's relationships and interactions
    - power plays
    - double standards of people's behaviors and attitudes (ex. immediately ridiculing one person for something, yet playfully teasing another for the same thing)
    - who trusts and respects whom
    - where and to whom people's ultimate loyalties lie
    - all this and discerning what it means on a broader scale for everybody else

    type related?
    What I can read much better than all this crap is intentions. Though with a certain delay sometimes.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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