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Thread: SEEs-ESFps being flaky with friendships

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    Grand Inquisitor Bardia's Avatar
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    Default SEEs-ESFps being flaky with friendships

    I have to admit that while reading SEE descriptions can help me predict how they might act it still does not help to understand why they do the things they do. I have never met a more frustrating type. I think it has to do with the fact that I can become good friends with them and with the closer psychological distance comes more EP vs IJ problems.

    I just don't understand some things about them... with one particular SEE it seems like we are good friends from my perspective and from other people who see our interactions perspective. It seems as though some days he acts like we are good friends and then will suddenly one day act as if we are no closer than other friends he sees every once in a while. And then he picks up a few days later as if he never treated me any different. He thinks that it is acceptable to purposefully not invite me to hang out with a group that he organized even though I would never do that to him. That as an isolated incident wouldn't bother me but it is part of a larger trend.

    Also confusing to me is how he can act like he is good friends with everyone when with them but privately reveal that he likes to hang out with them somewhat. Or how he can change his opinion one day thinking someone is gross and he doesn't want to hang out with them at all and the next day think they are okay and acceptable to hang out with. I don't understand how he can hang out with someone who treats him pretty crappy just because they used to be better friends. It all just makes me wonder what he really thinks about me. If our friendship is real or not. For me, it is easy to see if I am friends or good friends with someone and often times I will give a good friend more preference than someone who I hang out with every once in a while. It does not seem to be this way with him though. Also my opinions on people are relatively stable unless they do something to change it but his seem to vary for no reason at all. I just don't get it.
    Last edited by Bardia; 01-19-2010 at 11:57 PM.
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    I'm not really surprized by your post.

    I've seen some sort of that behaviour too.

    One thing with SEE that I find annoying, that is that you tend to be in their 'interest' for a while, and then slip out of it, except when you have something got to offer to them. It almost seems as if you have to keep working to stay in their 'interest zone' or something like that.

    It has to do with their jumping from one interesting and new thing, to another. As long as you can keep yourself interesting enough for them they won't leave. They are quite some opportunists actually.

    Though often they are also loyal, even when you're not interesting.

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    The Iniquitous inumbra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    It has to do with their jumping from one interesting and new thing, to another. As long as you can keep yourself interesting enough for them they won't leave. They are quite some opportunists actually.
    I was wondering if this is more IEE than SEE... it reminds me of IEE iow. I mean obviously it's EP-ish in general and there aren't going to really be any clear lines, but I was wondering anyway.

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    I think this is general Ep behavior. Especially if they happen to be E7.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    All I can say is that I know what you mean. I guess it's part of living in the moment, but many of them will switch on and off between being your friend to seemingly not caring and it leaves you thinking 'WTF.' Or they will shower attention on you one day and suddenly act like you don't exist. It's annoying.
    Yep, totally recognize this. Very annoying indeed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    I'm not really surprized by your post.

    I've seen some sort of that behaviour too.

    One thing with SEE that I find annoying, that is that you tend to be in their 'interest' for a while, and then slip out of it, except when you have something got to offer to them. It almost seems as if you have to keep working to stay in their 'interest zone' or something like that.

    It has to do with their jumping from one interesting and new thing, to another. As long as you can keep yourself interesting enough for them they won't leave. They are quite some opportunists actually.

    Though often they are also loyal, even when you're not interesting.
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    I just don't understand some things about them... with one particular SEE it seems like we are good friends from my perspective and from other people who see out interactions perspective. It seems as though some days he acts like we are good friends and then will suddenly one day act as if we are no closer than other friends he sees every once in a while. And then he picks up a few days later as if he never treated me any different. He thinks that it is acceptable to purposefully not invite me to hang out with a group that he organized even though I would never do that to him. That as an isolated incident wouldn't bother me but it is part of a larger trend.

    as for this, do they manage to still spend a fair amount of time with you in general?

    if so, maybe its a matter of them knowing that different group dynamics produce different results....and they like to mix it up.

    example being, you put jack around jill...and sally is there too...jill wont be the same jill. so lets just invite jack and jill this time.

    its not because i dont want to hang with sally, i probably will afterwards for that matter. i personally enjoy experimenting putting certain people around other people every once in a while...

    i know a SLE who completely shuts down around his fiancee, merely because she manages to talk louder and more assertively than him. funny thing is, he does that to ME when its just the two of us. perfect example there....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bardia View Post
    I have to admit that while reading SEE descriptions can help me predict how they might act it still does not help to understand why they do the things they do. I have never met a more frustrating type. I think it has to do with the fact that I can become good friends with them and with the closer psychological distance comes more EP vs IJ problems.

    I just don't understand some things about them... with one particular SEE it seems like we are good friends from my perspective and from other people who see out interactions perspective. It seems as though some days he acts like we are good friends and then will suddenly one day act as if we are no closer than other friends he sees every once in a while. And then he picks up a few days later as if he never treated me any different. He thinks that it is acceptable to purposefully not invite me to hang out with a group that he organized even though I would never do that to him. That as an isolated incident wouldn't bother me but it is part of a larger trend.

    Also confusing to me is how he can act like he is good friends with everyone when with them but privately reveal that he likes to hang out with them somewhat. Or how he can change his opinion one day thinking someone is gross and he doesn't want to hang out with them at all and the next day think they are okay and acceptable to hang out with. I don't understand how he can hang out with someone who treats him pretty crappy just because they used to be better friends. It all just makes me wonder what he really thinks about me. If our friendship is real or not. For me, it is easy to see if I am friends or good friends with someone and often times I will give a good friend more preference than someone who I hang out with every once in a while. It does not seem to be this way with him though. Also my opinions on people are relatively stable unless they do something to change it but his seem to vary for no reason at all. I just don't get it.
    Creative function (Fi). Therefore, applicable in one place and maybe not in another. Not consistent in its use. Usually requires a supplementary dose from dual's HA to see other aspects to the same function.
    I wonder how this works out with ENFps. Would it be similar, or does the intuition leading function make it different?

    Also, am just reminded, your description sounds like the perceiver behaviour of connecting in waves, instead of linearly like judgers do. Yet, this is SEE specific.

    Yes, SEEs can seem the types that practice "use and throw, maybe retrieve for another go". Annoying. One SEE tries to overdose me with her love and another just ignores me. I dislike this extremes behaviour, though Socionics tells me I must like it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AQ View Post
    I dislike this extremes behaviour, though Socionics tells me I must like it.
    This is exactly what you shouldn't do with socionics. Don't compromise yourself. The type describes you. It's not the other way around. Just felt like I should mention that. You may or may not be doing that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    This is exactly what you shouldn't do with socionics. Don't compromise yourself. The type describes you. It's not the other way around. Just felt like I should mention that. You may or may not be doing that.

    I meant it ironically, not that I accept this as a guide to living! And I agree with you, better to be true to mine own self than anything else.
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    Grand Inquisitor Bardia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    One thing with SEE that I find annoying, that is that you tend to be in their 'interest' for a while, and then slip out of it, except when you have something got to offer to them. It almost seems as if you have to keep working to stay in their 'interest zone' or something like that.

    It has to do with their jumping from one interesting and new thing, to another. As long as you can keep yourself interesting enough for them they won't leave. They are quite some opportunists actually.

    Though often they are also loyal, even when you're not interesting.
    I guess I just have a differing view of interesting. People are either interesting to me or not. It might vary by day how much I find them interesting but usually it remains relatively stable. I also don't get the concept of fighting for attention. I've always kind of thought people were your friends or not but I guess that is not true with SEEs. How does someone keep an SEEs attention anyway?

    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    The nice thing about being ILI is they'll always feel sorry for you for being all quiet and gloomy looking and never stray too far. All you need to do is smile at them when they are in your vicinity and they'll be all cool with you.
    My strategy is to be annoyed by his flighty behavior and avoid him because I'm annoyed. Eventually he figures out I'm avoiding him and annoyed. He tries to use charm to get his way out. It fails. I tell him hes done X Y an Z to annoy me and that he needs to apologize and work on it. Repeat haha.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khamelion View Post
    as for this, do they manage to still spend a fair amount of time with you in general?
    Yes. I know we are some kind of friends.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khamelion View Post
    if so, maybe its a matter of them knowing that different group dynamics produce different results....and they like to mix it up.
    I can appreciate that to an extent. I do this sometimes if I know people don't get along or if just feel like hanging out with certain people. With people I consider my good friends I don't really ever not invite them along.

    Quote Originally Posted by AQ View Post
    Also, am just reminded, your description sounds like the perceiver behaviour of connecting in waves, instead of linearly like judgers do. Yet, this is SEE specific
    Not sure exactly what you mean. I did kind of throw this together and its more in rant style haha. I had to get to work.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bardia View Post
    How does someone keep an SEEs attention anyway?
    in general, provide them with fun and you are their best friend.

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    I wonder how this works out with ENFps. Would it be similar, or does the intuition leading function make it different?
    I think it sounds a lot like myself.

    Creative Fi does turn on and off. Some days I just don't feel like bonding. Usually I don't intentionally ignore someone, but sometimes I don't have anything to say to them. I'm more worried about being boring.

    I don't expect my friends to invite me to every single gathering. Whether I feel left out depends on who the group of people is.

    Usually if I gripe about someone, it's just random venting. It has nothing to do with how much I like them. Some friends wear me out, but it doesn't mean I hate them. It just means there's a certain amount of time I'm able to spend around them. Usually people in my quadra are the ones I'm able to spend the longest amount of time with. They're the ones I'm most comfortable with.

    I don't do the switching between friends and enemies thing. I don't have an "enemies" list.

    I do think spending time consistently around an SLI has evened me out a bit in these respects... I think these types of things bothered my best friend as well, but being around a dual seems to highlight it and make me address it.. weirdly, without her even mentioning it..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bardia View Post
    Not sure exactly what you mean. I did kind of throw this together and its more in rant style haha. I had to get to work.
    It is the perceiver way of coming near and then going away in interactions. Their energy is such that the intensity in interactions changes a lot, is not steady like with judgers. Tom Loveday's descriptions may throw some light: http://www.socionika.com/rational_irrational.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny_dancer View Post
    I think it sounds a lot like myself.

    Creative Fi does turn on and off. Some days I just don't feel like bonding. Usually I don't intentionally ignore someone, but sometimes I don't have anything to say to them. I'm more worried about being boring.
    LOL! I am yet to meet an ENFp who is not plagued by that thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by tiny_dancer View Post
    I don't expect my friends to invite me to every single gathering. Whether I feel left out depends on who the group of people is.

    Usually if I gripe about someone, it's just random venting. It has nothing to do with how much I like them. Some friends wear me out, but it doesn't mean I hate them. It just means there's a certain amount of time I'm able to spend around them. Usually people in my quadra are the ones I'm able to spend the longest amount of time with. They're the ones I'm most comfortable with.

    I don't do the switching between friends and enemies thing. I don't have an "enemies" list.

    I do think spending time consistently around an SLI has evened me out a bit in these respects... I think these types of things bothered my best friend as well, but being around a dual seems to highlight it and make me address it.. weirdly, without her even mentioning it..
    . Yes, duality can be very fulfilling.
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    Grand Inquisitor Bardia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AQ View Post
    It is the perceiver way of coming near and then going away in interactions. Their energy is such that the intensity in interactions changes a lot, is not steady like with judgers. Tom Loveday's descriptions may throw some light: http://www.socionika.com/rational_irrational.html
    Okay I get what you're saying now. For some reason I thought you were saying my writing style was expressing that but I just misread.

    I guess irrationals will always be a mystery to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khamelion View Post
    if so, maybe its a matter of them knowing that different group dynamics produce different results....and they like to mix it up.

    example being, you put jack around jill...and sally is there too...jill wont be the same jill. so lets just invite jack and jill this time.

    its not because i dont want to hang with sally, i probably will afterwards for that matter. i personally enjoy experimenting putting certain people around other people every once in a while...
    This is exactly what I was thinking happened.

    I suppose my (SEE) brother is like this somewhat. Some days he's just not in the mood to hang out with certain people, I think. In fact, now that I think of it, he's best friends with my ESI cousin, but we could leave him at my aunt's house for just about a week during the summer before he'd get sick of him and beg us to pick him up. lol. But that might have had more to do with them both being kids than anything else, so that may not be of any use to your situation.

    Anyway, sorry your SEE friend isn't steady and constant enough for you. It could be worse, though. He could be SLE or ILE and then he wouldn't even have the magical Fi bonds to link to you.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

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    Grand Inquisitor Bardia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    Anyway, sorry your SEE friend isn't steady and constant enough for you. It could be worse, though. He could be SLE or ILE and then he wouldn't even have the magical Fi bonds to link to you.
    Yes, but if he was either of those types chances are we wouldn't have gotten close enough for me to care anyway.

    His avoidance has persisted in some areas but not others. Ironically his SLE roommate (who I have been getting along with well lately strangely enough) invited me over tonight without the SEEs knowledge. I don't think I could send a clearer message that I was not really interested in talking to him than by shoving him in the face away from me when he tried to give me a hug (he was kind of tipsy) and then by keeping my answers to anything he said very short or just ignoring him. Fuck him.
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    Bardia, I think it's an Ij issue (in regards to the OP)... There is more sensitivity (not in the emotional sense) to something being "off," behavior or actions being inconsistent/illogical in some way.

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    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola's Avatar
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    Bardia I get this totally. My ex husband is SEE and although we are finally talking and hanging out occasionally again, some days he is like my BFF and we are as close as anything and other days he will go out of his way to make me miserable and act completely wronged, even though his behaviour around me at other times contradicts such feelings. I have no idea what to expect from him and not in a good way. He is so hot and cold that I don't even really trust his good moods and actions toward me any more because in light of his other actions they seem completely superficial, even though it feels genuine at the time.

    I think the real issue I have with SEEs is their sense of justification for revenge. Particularly in the case of my ex and I, he seems to take things personally as an attack when they are most definitely not (quadra conflict perhaps?) and then go about attacking and being offensive toward me as if it is then his right.....but I never meant any harm in the first place. Calling him out on this then results in more fury and I tend to just walk away sadly wondering why he can't see past his own nose.

    Perhaps not all of them are like that, this is a personal experience I've had though. Obviously I'm missing something from him that he is trying to get across in everyday conversation, because he has been like this as long as I've known him and I find it incredibly puzzling and frustrating.
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    Grand Inquisitor Bardia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobo View Post
    Bardia, I think it's an Ij issue (in regards to the OP)... There is more sensitivity (not in the emotional sense) to something being "off," behavior or actions being inconsistent/illogical in some way.
    This probably contributes a lot to the problem. I can only try to be so flexible though. Unfortunately he doesn't know socionics and I'm sure he has no desire to learn it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khola View Post
    Bardia I get this totally. My ex husband is SEE and although we are finally talking and hanging out occasionally again, some days he is like my BFF and we are as close as anything and other days he will go out of his way to make me miserable and act completely wronged, even though his behaviour around me at other times contradicts such feelings. I have no idea what to expect from him and not in a good way. He is so hot and cold that I don't even really trust his good moods and actions toward me any more because in light of his other actions they seem completely superficial, even though it feels genuine at the time.

    I think the real issue I have with SEEs is their sense of justification for revenge. Particularly in the case of my ex and I, he seems to take things personally as an attack when they are most definitely not (quadra conflict perhaps?) and then go about attacking and being offensive toward me as if it is then his right.....but I never meant any harm in the first place. Calling him out on this then results in more fury and I tend to just walk away sadly wondering why he can't see past his own nose.

    Perhaps not all of them are like that, this is a personal experience I've had though. Obviously I'm missing something from him that he is trying to get across in everyday conversation, because he has been like this as long as I've known him and I find it incredibly puzzling and frustrating.
    I could see this happening in some SEEs. I definitely know some that are more revenge oriented. He doesn't seem like the revenge type but there could be something missing. Maybe I offended him in some way. I just hate how he acted all friendly when I showed up and he didn't even invite me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    I'm not really surprized by your post.

    I've seen some sort of that behaviour too.

    One thing with SEE that I find annoying, that is that you tend to be in their 'interest' for a while, and then slip out of it, except when you have something got to offer to them. It almost seems as if you have to keep working to stay in their 'interest zone' or something like that.

    It has to do with their jumping from one interesting and new thing, to another. As long as you can keep yourself interesting enough for them they won't leave. They are quite some opportunists actually.

    Though often they are also loyal, even when you're not interesting.
    I thought their dualy was especially designed to master these quirks of theirs.

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    This is an old thread but I also did find constructive what @Jarno said. I just see it as their moodiness. However I find them friendly and you can pull their interest back if you want it. But I have no problem accepting their "off" or "disinterested" moods; I just figure they have some good reason I don't understand and let it go.

    Also @Khola said:
    My ex husband is SEE and although we are finally talking and hanging out occasionally again, some days he is like my BFF and we are as close as anything and other days he will go out of his way to make me miserable and act completely wronged, even though his behaviour around me at other times contradicts such feelings. I have no idea what to expect from him and not in a good way. He is so hot and cold that I don't even really trust his good moods and actions toward me any more because in light of his other actions they seem completely superficial, even though it feels genuine at the time.
    My husband's SEE daughter is like this too.. It would be trickier in an ex with a difficult past history, I am sure (divorce is usually pretty difficult!). But I have found the (rather strong!) negative moods of the SEE I know to be more tolerable, knowing that "This too shall pass." A couple of times I have stayed silent while she ranted, and just shared calmly my response, "Thats not reasonable" or "not fair", whichever, and I will calmly explain why, and at least once I saw a look cross her face that said, "That makes sense, actually." I do not like being the target of a really bad mood, but they do pass, and she usually texts me to apologize. And she has reason to be moody; she has a lot going on in her life, some of it dramatic. And I have no problem forgiving and forgetting, next time she comes she is in a totally good mood, which I enjoy (SEEs can be really good company!) and we are building new positive interactions.

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    Chains's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    This is an old thread but I also did find constructive what @Jarno said. I just see it as their moodiness. However I find them friendly and you can pull their interest back if you want it. But I have no problem accepting their "off" or "disinterested" moods; I just figure they have some good reason I don't understand and let it go.

    Also @Khola said:

    My husband's SEE daughter is like this too.. It would be trickier in an ex with a difficult past history, I am sure (divorce is usually pretty difficult!). But I have found the (rather strong!) negative moods of the SEE I know to be more tolerable, knowing that "This too shall pass." A couple of times I have stayed silent while she ranted, and just shared calmly my response, "Thats not reasonable" or "not fair", whichever, and I will calmly explain why, and at least once I saw a look cross her face that said, "That makes sense, actually." I do not like being the target of a really bad mood, but they do pass, and she usually texts me to apologize. And she has reason to be moody; she has a lot going on in her life, some of it dramatic. And I have no problem forgiving and forgetting, next time she comes she is in a totally good mood, which I enjoy (SEEs can be really good company!) and we are building new positive interactions.
    Sounds like my SEE sister. I have the same approach. I tend to just let her be and she comes back around. I often have to wait her out and it eventually passes.

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    SEE goes to wherever there is stimulation and generally only becomes a flaky friend after you screw them over(multiple times and they might still come back around) or if there is something better going on. They talk a lot of crap about people but its never anything they are serious about, they will sometimes avoid hanging out with people if they complain a lot or want to end the party early(keep in mind, they often don't know when they should stop or leave your home), not contributing(booze, weed, whatever is going on) and are drama starters.

    Seems like in your situation SEE just had another "party" to hang with, doesn't sound like anything personal.

    I hang with ESI(Live-in GF) and SEE 2-3 times a week. SEE seems to hang multiple different groups of friends. We are all in our mid twenties. I also had a SEE roommate for a couple of years, they are very simple.

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    Don't leave me lost here forever crazymaisy's Avatar
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    My dualized SEE hubby has all those tendancies, it's something that has been good for him, to be married to ILI me. He'll occasionally get miffed at me for some ethereal thing and then say I'm attacking him personally ... all I need to do is get into an argument or just walk away and go do something else. He'll be fine later on, as if nothing happened at all.

    If we have an argument about anything "real" he is good to go to sleep without resolving it and pretends not to have ever been in an argument.

    That's all something that has improved. It was like that in the beginning, and less like that, improved responses all along the way since.

    Though the black moods SEE's get sometimes, they still air themselves a-times. Very sensitive to things, as if it's all personal, whatever it is that's bothering them. Work, bills, money, sports, etc. The thing about my SEE then is me poking at him until he erupts. That is part of the High/Low of being dualized. I get him raging and then he's all happy again.
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    boom boom boom blackburry's Avatar
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    I've yet to see a healthy gamma relationship in real life. I've recently known a ESI-LIE couple for a bit, and although they seemed happy-ish...it was nonstopo teasing/fighting/bickering from an outsiders view. When they get along- it's when they are making fun of other people in a cruel way. It's extremely obnoxious to be around.

    my SEE friend with her ILI husband... I've always thought they've had an awesome relationship until being around it in person more (according to her-she's always told me they had an awesome one)... and it's the same as above but with less teasing (because the SEE takes EVERYTHING personal), so it's a lot of bickering/fighting from an outsiders view. Lots of name-calling on the SEE's end and the ILI just kind of ignores it. When they do get along, it's a lot of shit-talking about other people....same as above. Also obnoxious to be around.

    Gammas, man. ... i'd rather be alone than be in a relationship described as above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazymaisy View Post
    My dualized SEE hubby has all those tendancies, it's something that has been good for him, to be married to ILI me. He'll occasionally get miffed at me for some ethereal thing and then say I'm attacking him personally ... all I need to do is get into an argument or just walk away and go do something else. He'll be fine later on, as if nothing happened at all.

    If we have an argument about anything "real" he is good to go to sleep without resolving it and pretends not to have ever been in an argument.

    That's all something that has improved. It was like that in the beginning, and less like that, improved responses all along the way since.

    Though the black moods SEE's get sometimes, they still air themselves a-times. Very sensitive to things, as if it's all personal, whatever it is that's bothering them. Work, bills, money, sports, etc. The thing about my SEE then is me poking at him until he erupts. That is part of the High/Low of being dualized. I get him raging and then he's all happy again.
    You're so wonderfully honest which is what most pepple are unable to do. They are unable to deal with the fact that their "perfect" isnt someone elsea. That thir moods are not going to be appropriate for others and their duality. Being onrself natually is the key to duality.I'm so happy for you. I wish the same for my SEE frienda

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    update: the LIE and ESI are getting a divorce. ..

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    update: SEE is not hetero, but bisexual and has had group sex experiences

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    I can explain what I've learned based on my long-term relationship experiences with my SEE. It is the pride and joy of the SEE to please everyone, and they generally try their best to do just that. However it comes at a price for them because then people take for granted that they don't mind being at others' beck and call for this purpose. The SEE keeps a close tally…and once things pass a certain threshold where they feel taken for granted for their social generosity, they either withdraw, lash out, or sabotage themselves just to escape the situation.

    They often fail to prioritize people or events during the planning stages, instead relying on their future abilities to adapt correctly in the moment. They give half-hearted "Yeses" to everyone, as opposed to taking the time to evaluate what THEY want, and to use their Te and devise a plan. Then they follow where the wind takes them, letting more people down than they satisfy. This leaves them feeling resentful, since no one appreciates that they didn't please persons A&B because they were busy pleasing C, D, E&F.

    I can't count how many times I've heard my SEE exclaim in frustration "everyone wants a piece of me!". I have been forcing him to first consider which requests are important to HIM, and then explaining the logic that "in order to do this & this...you must say "No" up front to that, otherwise you'll end up with regrets".

    There were several times during our first couple of years, when I would be stood up because he was floating wherever the tide took him. There were many things which I did chalk up to "flakiness", and eventually I ended things. However he refused to let me go, and he was so very heartfelt in opening up about his feelings, that we got back together. Then, when I had texted him a very important relationship question, he was excessively flaky and evasive in his answers. He waffled several times, and so I stated "so basically you're saying no". Then he was all slippery, responding "no means yes, and yes means no". Then I basically snapped (we affectionately refer to it as the "Hulk incident"), because I felt misled and that he was selfish for re-pursuing me, and apparently exaggerating his feelings just to hang on to me. Believing it was over for good, I proceeded to unleash my anger, hurt and disappointment over every apparently flaky thing I had put up with, yet suppressed, over the past several years. I was exasperated, since I just could not logically reconcile his apparently deep feelings with his choices of actions.

    I suppose he realized that he was really not pleasing everyone or playing all sides successfully at all, but rather he was doing things for others he didn't even want to be doing at the cost of losing me, just because he wouldn't take a stand. He then proceeded to open up about all his insecurities and worries, and explain why he was afraid of feeling or doing certain things. Basically it was all his attempt to keep things as superficial as possible in order to prevent him from ever falling too hard, disappointing me when he was giving his all, or else losing me. He walked in the middle of the road in front of my car, and since that day he is now 100% committed, open, assertive and focused.

    He now independently sends me articles on relationships, and on women's emotions sexuality. He has gone above and beyond any possible standard in a partner I could have ever imagined. A SEE is afraid to reveal themselves fully in case they are rejected. Like the LIE, they are a soft snail inside, carrying a large and impressive shell around to distract others from their vulnerability. Once they decide to open up, reveal and share, the wait and frustration preceding it is worth it tenfold! So funny that while reading this thread this morning, I received this text from him (my words in green); thus I felt compelled to add my experiences.

    image.jpg

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