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Thread: Duality and mutual attraction

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    Creepy-Antigone

    Default Duality and mutual attraction...

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    Yes, ESTj is the stereotypical masculine type. This can be frustrating since I'm female. I agree that, logically, ESTjs are much more useful than INFjs. But INFjs have something ESTjs are missing: . My feelings are gererally trapped, which is a good thing, but makes it hard to connect with people. INFjs excel at connecting with people. It's not your efficiency and productivity we want; we've got that covered. We want a person who will do the work of staying close to us so we don't have to put out the extra effort to stay close to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antigone View Post
    What means "This dual pair is characterized with certain reticence, isolation from other people (...) and integrity in everything."
    "Who needs the rest of the planet? We've got each other."

    ESTj
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    take a second of me sarinana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antigone View Post
    Hi,

    But I doupt this attraction is caused of duality. I am pretty shure EVERY woman would be attracted to them. They are pragmatic (VERY pragmatic. I couldn`t imagine one of them being interested in things like socionics or MBTI), they are very intelligent and ambitious , they are strong and mature and very self-confident leader-natures who WANT TO assume responsibility. They know what they want and what they don`t want and never hesitate to speak it out. They expect respect and they get respect. I admire them.

    Isn`t ESTJ the masculine "stereotype" most women dream of? Or am I only the "stereotype" of prejudices about women?
    I hope somebody smarter answers your other questions...

    but as for "EVERY woman" you should be careful.
    ive met several LSEs in my life. And do you know what is hidden behind that ambition and pragmatism? deep inside they are pussies who decided that they want to be leaders so they just make an image of themselves which isn't real them even in a tiny amount. for this reason in later life they usually need psychological help. and you delta NFs are naturally gifted when it comes to psychology.

    And you are right, they are driven by their wants...and into total stupidity...of course in the middle of the way they usually notice that what they are doing is stupid because of their strong but they still continue doing that cause they can't see any other alternatives how they could turn things and get the same result as they expect. for my own surprise, some of them are lucky and they don't go bankrupt. others not so lucky need INFjs and their to show all the alternatives, but only in the middle of the way. that's why + introversion is the best pack for LSEs. they only need you to talk when they are totally lost. or when they want to use you as a tool for having good relations with other people .

    actually people seem to wear pink glasses when it comes to love interest. I hope I explained everything nicely and took those glasses off of your face.
    Sorry for my English. I am not native.
    Last edited by sarinana; 01-15-2010 at 08:39 PM.

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    Oh dear... more stereotypes
    EIE tritype 5w4, 4w5, 9w1


    As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere being.
    Carl Jung, "Memories, Dreams, Reflections", 1962

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    Creepy-Antigone

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    Last edited by Antigone; 01-18-2010 at 06:41 PM.

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    Duality is in simple words, two people who can exchange information (communicate/talk/etc) in such a way, that it gives them comfort, feeling relaxt, protected, tickled in their mind, trusted, understood, valued, etc. The famous 'chemistry'.

    Duality only starts working in close psychological distance. So if an INFJ watches Arnold Schwarzenegger (ESTJ) on tv, the duality thing doesn't work.

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    Creepy-Antigone

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    Last edited by Antigone; 01-29-2010 at 06:59 PM.

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    Natural authority? ESTjs can kiss my ass.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    take a second of me sarinana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Natural authority? ESTjs can kiss my ass.
    that's exactly what i meant!

    there is no real without

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Natural authority? ESTjs can kiss my ass.
    hehe yeah, they are very bossy at times, but when the real boss comes in, they are like little slaves.

    I also know the ESTJ guys were scared shit of an ENFJ girl at our office. Really awesome to see. She was sort of the queen without question

    I do wonder who would win this natural authority contest between ENTJ and ENFJ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    ESTjs can kiss my ass.
    I supervise ESTJ's for breakfast.

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    take a second of me sarinana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antigone View Post

    @ Sarinana

    "Sorry for my English. I am not native. "

    why do you mock me?
    i am not mocking you. why would you think so?

    Quote Originally Posted by Antigone View Post

    "but as for "EVERY woman" you should be careful. "

    I know "EVERY woman" is exaggerated. But I thought that would transfer my feelings best. The point is that I don`t think it`s attraction caused of duality but a tendence - I think not EVERY woman but VERY MUCH are attracted to such men. Or do you really think it`s caused of duality ???
    its caused mostly by the same quadra values (and good looks, and the level of pheromones).

    Quote Originally Posted by Antigone View Post
    But this 3 men i wrote about (only 3!!) are REALLY self-confident in a naturally way. They are not brash and loud, rather sovereign. One of the 3 men was my teacher.
    You value confidence which I don't value so we shouldn't discuss this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antigone View Post
    The once teacher who never had problems with loud students in the classroom. Everyone was quiet, nobody had the heard to talk to his/her neighbour, although this teacher talked friendly, made jokes and seemed to be sovereign. You only felt it would better to be quiet.
    you should meet my LSE mom too probably.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antigone View Post
    It was his presence, his NATURAL authority.
    are you sure he is LSE?

    Quote Originally Posted by Antigone View Post
    I don`t know what kind of "ESTJ" YOU mean, but I only knew these 3 (maybe because I don`t know anything about socionics, or because I don`t know much people) and this 3 men seem very close to their inner self (closer than I am).
    maybe. but don't worry i am no better than you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antigone View Post
    You are shaking my little socionic-world at the moment. I thought such "fakers" doesn`t fit into the description of ESTJ. Well, of course, the types are tendencies. If you tested ESTJ that doesn`t mean you are the embodiment of ESTJ-description. But this 3 guys COINCIDENTAL are! And I COINCIDENTAL am attracted to them. Duality or not???

    As I said different quadra values here. What may seem real to you it may seem fake to somebody out of different quadra.

    Welcome to the forum!

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    Creepy-Antigone

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    take a second of me sarinana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    hehe yeah, they are very bossy at times, but when the real boss comes in, they are like little slaves.

    I also know the ESTJ guys were scared shit of an ENFJ girl at our office. Really awesome to see. She was sort of the queen without question

    I do wonder who would win this natural authority contest between ENTJ and ENFJ.
    when the winner is unknown you should vote for gammas. :wink:

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    Last edited by Antigone; 01-29-2010 at 06:59 PM.

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    EVERY woman wouldn't be attracted to ESTj's!!

    I know I'm not. I've worked with an ESTj supervisor before and even though it started out ok, it became torture. The guy was so arrogant and acted like a know-it-all, treated clients in a way I completely disrespected, and never wanted to hear me out because what I thought was important, he poo-poo'd, and never saw the value in it.

    He also yelled at me for all those "irrelevant details" i kept trying to tell him and whenever I would ask him to explain his completely non-sensical plan, he would explain it to me like I was stupid or something. In the end I still disagreed with his plans but hey he's the boss. He actually almost made me cry at one point.

    Wow, I sure hope I dont end up with a jackass like that!!!
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    @Antigone, I thought at first that you were using a lot of MBTI, but it seems that you have a decent understanding of LSEs and are a probable INFj-Fi yourself, as is Antigone (her LSE father's dual, btw).

    Your english is pretty good. What's your first language, if you don't mind me asking?

    To answer your question, LSEs (and SLEs for that matter) are both stereotypically masculine types, so there is also a degree to which most women will be attracted to certain qualities about them. Same thing with IEI women (and EII women, I suppose) and most men. However, even if most women would pursue an LSE based on certain qualities about them, many women will also discover, over time, that they just don't get along (at least not on a deep, romantic level) with most LSEs. For instance, many women are annoyed by the frequent practical advice LSEs tend to provide. So just because LSEs might exhibit typically masculine traits, doesn't mean that most women would enjoy living with them in a committed relationship, because of features in their own personalities that don't jive with LSEs.

    Here's the fun part: LSEs really do need the things that EIIs can best provide. Now, I'm not an LSE (I'm an IEI, so I'm they're conflictor), but I think that LSEs desperately want to live ethically and responsibly (this is one of their great priorities in life or one of the things they need in order to respect themselves perhaps), and build strong, stable bonds with a few close people. I don't know why this is, but I bet that you will often find it to be true. Fi can make this happen, without even thinking about it. Also, LSEs have real trouble understanding what is likely to happen in the future, as well as dealing with mystical and/or abstract notions that seem to be totally removed from reality. EIIs can help them with this with , by telling them what could happen, and then letting them use their natural instincts to prepare for all the possibilities, rather than expecting them to have faith in a prediction of what will occur, as an Ni-ego might.

    Also, regarding the ESE (ESFj) and LSE (ESTj) thing, common interests can be great, and it's always nice to spend time with someone who sees things in a way that's similar to you. This is why even people in a dual relationship should have identical and kindred friends, because sometimes it's just nice to stay 100% in your comfort zone and have friends that typically explore the same activities and recreation that you do. But most people will chose a person that gives them what they really enjoy and long for over people that give them something that they can really provide themselves. Identity relationships and other relationships between similar types (like the ESE-LSE relationship you mentioned) can be great, but they tend to stagnate over time and not provide much help in moving forward in life. Duality rarely stagnates, and can be a great help in improving your quality of life.

    "This dual pair is characterized with certain reticence, isolation from other people (...) and integrity in everything."
    This sentence means that ESTjs and INFjs tend to be extremely ethical and responsible. They tend to look before they leap (although they can just leap when necessary). While accepting of other people, they tend to build close relationships with other individuals very slowly, instead focusing on the bond between the two of them.

    (also, your posts would be slightly easier to read if you cut-and-pasted the text of the person you're responding to into your post and then put quote tags around it. No big deal, just thought I'd mention it.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    I do wonder who would win this natural authority contest between ENTJ and ENFJ.
    Depends on who gets embarrassed by failing at their role first.

    i am not mocking you. why would you think so?
    Are you still SEE, sariana? It would hilarious if there managed to be a Se-leading/Se-polr clash in the very first interaction between you and antigone (btw, we haven't interacted much on this forum, I don't think, so hola).
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    EVERY woman wouldn't be attracted to ESTj's!!

    I know I'm not. I've worked with an ESTj supervisor before and even though it started out ok, it became torture. The guy was so arrogant and acted like a know-it-all, treated clients in a way I completely disrespected, and never wanted to hear me out because what I thought was important, he poo-poo'd, and never saw the value in it.

    He also yelled at me for all those "irrelevant details" i kept trying to tell him and whenever I would ask him to explain his completely non-sensical plan, he would explain it to me like I was stupid or something. In the end I still disagreed with his plans but hey he's the boss. He actually almost made me cry at one point.

    Wow, I sure hope I dont end up with a jackass like that!!!
    Oh, you're a woman??
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Natural authority? ESTjs can kiss my ass.
    And you can eat styrofoam. Just because it's possible doesn't mean it's gonna happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by sarinana View Post
    that's exactly what i meant!

    there is no such thing as a delta

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Oh, you're a woman??
    Yeah believe it or not, females can be workaholics too
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Natural authority? ESTjs can kiss my ass.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    hehe yeah, they are very bossy at times, but when the real boss comes in, they are like little slaves.

    I also know the ESTJ guys were scared shit of an ENFJ girl at our office. Really awesome to see. She was sort of the queen without question

    I do wonder who would win this natural authority contest between ENTJ and ENFJ.
    Let's go F--k them up together.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    Creepy-Antigone

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    Last edited by Antigone; 01-29-2010 at 07:00 PM.

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    Last edited by Antigone; 01-18-2010 at 01:16 PM.

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    What silverchris9 posted about duality and LSE+EII was spot-on

    In terms of "all women" being attracted to LSE's men, I honestly don't know. I would think because they have certain qualities that are expected in men that women *think* they should be with someone like that, but of course that doesn't always work in the long run. They tend to have a lot of qualities that can be rather bothersome to some types; restless/nervous demeanor, often temperamental, workaholic tendencies, can be overly dry/boring/serious, etc.
    They're also not particularly romantic or emotionally open in the typical sense, which I imagine would come off as not caring to some women.
    Also, I think that to a woman who is rather independent an LSE will come across as annoyingly demeaning

    Duality is not a utopia, as in, you can't expect to meet a dual and live happily ever after. You have to have other things connecting you two, like shared values/beliefs, mutual respect and attraction, matching goals (i.e. marriage, kids, no-kids, etc)

    One last question: What means "This dual pair is characterized with certain reticence, isolation from other people (...) and integrity in everything."
    It means an inclination to spend more time with one another than with other people. Although I don't know how true this is for all LSE's and EII's....
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    take a second of me sarinana's Avatar
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    maybe its because stereotypical male is described like LSE
    and stereotypical female like IEI
    conflictors

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    Where do you get these stereotypical descriptions? I was looking in the library and no luck on the subject.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    Yeah believe it or not, females can be workaholics too
    c'mon I didn't mean it that way.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    c'mon I didn't mean it that way.
    I'm sure you didn't. I just wanted to mess with you
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    To tag on to something Marie84 said, LSEs are generally not very emotionally demonstrative. Out of all the types, I'd say they're the most likely to do love the practical way, i.e., only get flowers on the birthday and anniversary because it's expected, monday is sex day, etc. (jk about the "monday is sex day" part... maybe). One of the reasons LSEs like EIIs as romantic partners is that EIIs don't necessarily expect showy emotional displays (an LSE is NEVER going to write you a love sonnet, for instance; by contrast, an LSI or SLE might try if he was really, really into you, and it was 1601. And LSE wouldn't even do it in 1601). EIIs, presumably, are much more content with practical demonstrations of affection. For instance, my mom (who I still think is IEE) once got a fan from her boyfriend (who I still think is SLI) for her birthday or something. Well at first she was like, wtf, did you seriously get me a fan for my birthday (he normally buys her shoes or whatever), but then after a while she noticed how incredibly useful it was (she lives in the South, and it gets really hot), and it became one of her favorite presents ever. Of course, it's a possibility that my mom is EIE and her boyfriend's SEI, or that they're both IEEs (somewhat less likely), but the example stands; the LSE is likelier than other types to be excessively/extremely practical (a fan is not a very romantic gift), and EII is likelier than other types to respond well to that.

    I guess the point is that one of the most important things duals do for one another is not to expect, or even really care about, things that each other aren't good at. EIIs don't really care about the LSE tendency to avoid strong emotional expression. LSEs, for their part, don't really care about the EII tendency to have trouble with Ti-style logical reasoning.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    I guess the point is that one of the most important things duals do for one another is not to expect, or even really care about, things that each other aren't good at. EIIs don't really care about the LSE tendency to avoid strong emotional expression. LSEs, for their part, don't really care about the EII tendency to have trouble with Ti-style logical reasoning.
    I was just curious at this, but I noticed you chose their roles over their fourth functions. Any reason? Super ego coin flip?
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    Easier to argue that they don't care about their ignoring function than their demonstrative function. Either can be argued, but ignoring was easier at the moment.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    an LSE is NEVER going to write you a love sonnet
    Actually, an LSE could write a very good love sonnet. My English teacher last year was an LSE. He's written many poems, so now when he hands his wife another she doesn't think much of it. I find poetry to be a productive and final way to express my feelings. I don't like to say them; that's too public and irreversable. I write them down, but then I keep rearranging words whenever I slightly change my mind. If it's down in a poem and already sounds good, I can explain myself without feeling the need to go back and fix my wording several times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Actually, an LSE could write a very good love sonnet. My English teacher last year was an LSE. He's written many poems, so now when he hands his wife another she doesn't think much of it. I find poetry to be a productive and final way to express my feelings. I don't like to say them; that's too public and irreversable. I write them down, but then I keep rearranging words whenever I slightly change my mind. If it's down in a poem and already sounds good, I can explain myself without feeling the need to go back and fix my wording several times.
    Seriously? That's surprising. Seems too airy and indefinite and mystic for an LSE, but okay. Even then, I couldn't picture an LSE writing, for instance, "more love, more happy happy love," or "beauty is truth, truth beauty, that is all/ye know on earth and all ye need to know." But whatever. All types can do anything I suppose. But do you still agree with the basic notios that LSEs are less likely than other types (perhaps even the least likely) to make spontaneous grand romantic gestures towards their partners? Or perhaps they are likely to do this, but very unlikely to do it in public?

    EDIT: sorry for the accidental double-quote
    Last edited by silverchris9; 01-20-2010 at 10:58 PM.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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    Darn Socks Director Abbie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    Seriously? That's surprising. Seems too airy and indefinite and mystic for an LSE, but okay. Even then, I couldn't picture an LSE writing, for instance, "more love, more happy happy love," or "beauty is truth, truth beauty, that is all/ye know on earth and all ye need to know." But whatever. All types can do anything I suppose. But do you still agree with the basic notios that LSEs are less likely than other types (perhaps even the least likely) to make spontaneous grand romantic gestures towards their partners? Or perhaps they are likely to do this, but very unlikely to do it in public?
    Sonnets actually have a rather complex pattern to them. An IEI would probably write a lot of romantic poetry, but with a more simple structure. An LSE poem isn't as romantic or as frequent, but it's well-written and gets the point across without rambling.

    An LSE might make a grand romantic gesture, but it would definitely be in private unless the occasion was something like an anniversary. As far as being spontaneous...does planned spontenaety count? I generally decide ahead of time what spontaneous action I'll perform or what time period I'll set aside to be spontaneous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    does planned spontenaety count? I generally decide ahead of time what spontaneous action I'll perform or what time period I'll set aside to be spontaneous.
    This is priceless
    IEE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Sonnets actually have a rather complex pattern to them. An IEI would probably write a lot of romantic poetry, but with a more simple structure. An LSE poem isn't as romantic or as frequent, but it's well-written and gets the point across without rambling.

    An LSE might make a grand romantic gesture, but it would definitely be in private unless the occasion was something like an anniversary. As far as being spontaneous...does planned spontenaety count? I generally decide ahead of time what spontaneous action I'll perform or what time period I'll set aside to be spontaneous.
    Keats was IEI. Possibly the best (consistently great) sonnet-writer since Shakespeare (who is also frequently typed IEI or EIE). Actually Keats and Shelley were both IEI, I'm pretty sure (and definitely both beta), and they both wrote rather complicated forms with intricate rhyme schemes. Actually the bit about "gets the point across without rambling," while I have a rather visceral negative reaction to the notion, is a frequently found characteristic in what I believe to be poetry written by delta quadra members.

    And no, planned spontaneity does not count. .
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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    Actually the bit about "gets the point across without rambling," while I have a rather visceral negative reaction to the notion, is a frequently found characteristic in what I believe to be poetry written by delta quadra members.
    What poetry would you characterize as delta?

    I'm curious b/c I...um...don't see poetry as being a delta thing. heh

    I love poetry, but I couldn't ever write it. It amazes me how poets can distill so much complex emotion in a shorter phrase, but still retain all of its layers. That's my favorite type of poetry.
    IEE

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    I personally used to think that William Carlos Williams was SLI but I think I was wrong on that. Still, no ideas but in things seems like a very Si + Te statement to me (focus on objects, what's material, what's there, and then ideas through that, as opposed to someone like Blake, who's IEI, who would absolutely and categorically refuse to view anything in the material world through any lens except the theory, the imagination, the ideas) But a lot of the contemporary writers (comparatively few of the classics, I *think*) are definitely delta. That famous contemporary nature writer poet is probably delta (although she *does* ramble sometimes).

    Tennyson (who is a genius) is probably EII (possible LII though).
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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    Interesting, I'll go look-up some work by Tennyson

    In terms of Delta poetry, I really don't have any contributions since I don't read enough of it as it is, but I would imagine that Delta ST's could write more environment related poems, such as things related to nature and their travels...
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