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Thread: ThePirate's Debut: Beta Induction

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    EffyCold thePirate's Avatar
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    Default ThePirate's Debut: Beta Induction

    Accepting I'm EIE, I don't really know how to take this typing. I'm kind of disoriented, although it does explain things that I didnt really want to address about myself. I related alot of my interactions, and understanding of the world to socionics. Emotionally, I've invested probably more than I should have; I sincerely hope none of you make the same mistake.

    My current state/opinions: Betas has been portrayed to me as destructive and evil. I really hope my time here, among other things, will prove this wrong. I'm still a little bewildered to know I operate comparatively to Hitler. Although I guess its kind of cool. Meh. That being said, I have to thank the people who suggested EIE for me, I always took it as an attack, and maybe some were, but nonetheless it did shed some light on things that I probably needed to think about. So, to everyone who contributed, thank you: Morcheeba, Cyclops, Cerulean Flame, jessica129, basically everyone in my recent typing thread, a certain someone who played a big role behind the scenes(you know who you are ;D), even JuJu and Gilly, I appreciate it alot. Im also going to add in Expat whose writings are brilliant and helped clarify a couple of things.

    so yeah, any info on how to deal with being EIE, or on LSIs would be fucking fantastic as I dont know what the hell is going on yet.

    cheers
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

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    Hey, just because Hitler is EIE doesn't mean you are anything like him. He was possessed by some serious Archetype figure, so that doesn't mean much in regards to his type. Also, their have been plenty of dictators across all of the quadras. I mean, their are always gonna be less then savory people represented for each type. And, you can like and get along with people from your opposing quadra, why not? I really like Winterpark, and I can tell we would get along in real life.
    EIE tritype 5w4, 4w5, 9w1


    As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere being.
    Carl Jung, "Memories, Dreams, Reflections", 1962

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Yeah fuck all that negative shit you hear about Betas. It's the greatest quadra to be in. The liveliest, most passionate and dramatic quadra of which to be a part. And you, my friend, are at the centre of it all.

    Hitler was EIE. But so is Bono. Go figure.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    But[?] so is Bono.
    Bono is a giant bag of dicks. There's more awesome EIEs out there.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrong Way Ticket View Post
    Bono is a giant bag of dicks.
    first thing you've said about EIEs that I agree with
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    @ssPirate: I think if you look into the enneagram, particularly type 7(w6 probably), it would give some context to how your type plays out, especially some of the things you saw in IEE/EP temperament/Ne valuing etc that would contrast and shed some light on some things you might be unsure about in regards to being EIE.

    It's a puzzle, no doubt, but it fits together.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
    Accepting I'm EIE...
    Should I fire up the ovens, master ?

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Should I fire up the ovens, master ?
    lmao
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrong Way Ticket View Post
    Bono is a giant bag of dicks. There's more awesome EIEs out there.
    I'm not saying he's not. But he's not evil, is he?
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Welcome to the dark side of the force.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    I'm glad that you've ended up at the correct type, Pirate... Good job... seriously.

    This forum can be a tough place to learn Socionics, as very few people here understand the system, (although many of these people claim to... Often. And usually with a bunch of ad hominems.) I'm glad you finally cut through the bullshit and got it right.

    I hope that this'll happen to you--it happened to me once I finally figured out I was ENFj: that is, by using this system, you can figure out (and improve) real-life relations to your own benefit... Socionics' accuracy is amazing, I've found.

    Now that you've got your own type right, the next step is getting others' types right... The last step is putting the knowledge of your own type and others' types into practice--so that you can make accurate assessments of people on the fly, and use them to your benefit...

    If you haven't done so already, I'd suggest starting a list of celebrities/people you know are each of the 16 types... As you add to it more and more, you'll begin to notice patterns in each type's behavior, and sometimes even looks (although these patterns aren't as clear-cut as some of this forum's bullshit artists would have you believe.) If you do this often--and accurately--in less than a year (I'm betting, if your experience is comparable to mine,) you'll be able to use Socionics practically... And derive a lot of benefits from that.
    Last edited by JuJu; 01-16-2010 at 09:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    I'm not saying he's not. But he's not evil, is he?
    You never know... EIE Ted Bundy didn't seem so evil until people finally noticed the body count... EIE Jim Jones seemed like a great person to many in California until hundreds of corpses were found in Guyana... etc

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Shut up, you pretentious fuck; nobody cares what you think.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JuJu View Post
    This forum can be a tough place to learn Socionics, as very few people here understand the system, (although many of these people claim to... Often. And usually with a bunch of ad hominems.) I'm glad you finally cut through the bullshit and got it right.
    Hey, dude, I don't want to get on the bashing you train because I think you're cool and right about a lot of stuff about socionics, but everyone already knows your position on many of the people on this site vis a vis their understanding of socionics. Repeating it in places where it is obviously unnecessary to the flow of conversation is needlessly problem-causing, and, I think, kind of stupid. I love a good fight and all... it's just that this one stopped being interesting after that thread you posted where you had the big fight with Morcheeba and someone made fun of a state, I think, etc. Now it's not as funny or interesting anymore. I understand the desire to win converts to your particular understanding of socionics, especially when you believe what is arguably the prevailing view is wrong, but still... I dunno, most of that post was a bitch movie, santa.

    EDIT: That being said, what do you think of typing literary figures/characters (which is what I prefer to do) as a substitute for (primarily) typing celebrities and all that. Also, do you feel that your life has been enriched by viewing things through a socionics lens? I find more often than not, seeing things through socionics distracts me from what's actually going on.
    Last edited by silverchris9; 01-17-2010 at 07:24 AM.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
    Accepting I'm EIE, I don't really know how to take this typing. I'm kind of disoriented, although it does explain things that I didnt really want to address about myself. I related alot of my interactions, and understanding of the world to socionics. Emotionally, I've invested probably more than I should have; I sincerely hope none of you make the same mistake.

    My current state/opinions: Betas has been portrayed to me as destructive and evil. I really hope my time here, among other things, will prove this wrong. I'm still a little bewildered to know I operate comparatively to Hitler. Although I guess its kind of cool. Meh. That being said, I have to thank the people who suggested EIE for me, I always took it as an attack, and maybe some were, but nonetheless it did shed some light on things that I probably needed to think about. So, to everyone who contributed, thank you: Morcheeba, Cyclops, Cerulean Flame, jessica129, basically everyone in my recent typing thread, a certain someone who played a big role behind the scenes(you know who you are ;D), even JuJu and Gilly, I appreciate it alot. Im also going to add in Expat whose writings are brilliant and helped clarify a couple of things.

    so yeah, any info on how to deal with being EIE, or on LSIs would be fucking fantastic as I dont know what the hell is going on yet.

    cheers
    Yeah, I relate to this -- it's really easy to slip into the mindset of seeing the world in terms of socionics. I've done this before, and it's a shock to realize your understanding is flawed. Socionics gets at the core of who we are and how we relate to other people, but it's also nuanced, elusive, and open to misinterpretation -- a combination which creates all sorts of problems.

    As far as Hitler goes, he was fucked up and insane -- but he still managed to build a following and rewrite world history. So what does that say about EIEs?:wink:
    EIE-Ni

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    As far as Hitler goes, he was fucked up and insane -- but he still managed to build a following and rewrite world history. So what does that say about EIEs?:wink:[/QUOTE]

    It just says that EIE's are deluded, plain and simple
    EIE tritype 5w4, 4w5, 9w1


    As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere being.
    Carl Jung, "Memories, Dreams, Reflections", 1962

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    deluded like a FOX
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

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    The Beta=evilness equation is rubbish. Yah, some Beta's are extremist nutcases but most are just normal people living their lives honestly like everyone else. In fact, I've noticed more Beta NF's involved in humanitarian activities than any other types
    EII INFj
    Forum status: retired

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    Zhu-zhu <3




    sounds cool. ye, and welcome, you won't regret, ughu~

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    Hey, dude, I don't want to get on the bashing you train because I think you're cool and right about a lot of stuff about socionics, but everyone already knows your position on many of the people on this site vis a vis their understanding of socionics. Repeating it in places where it is obviously unnecessary to the flow of conversation is needlessly problem-causing, and, I think, kind of stupid. I love a good fight and all... it's just that this one stopped being interesting after that thread you posted where you had the big fight with Morcheeba and someone made fun of a state, I think, etc. Now it's not as funny or interesting anymore. I understand the desire to win converts to your particular understanding of socionics, especially when you believe what is arguably the prevailing view is wrong, but still... I dunno, most of that post was a bitch movie, santa.

    EDIT: That being said, what do you think of typing literary figures/characters (which is what I prefer to do) as a substitute for (primarily) typing celebrities and all that. Also, do you feel that your life has been enriched by viewing things through a socionics lens? I find more often than not, seeing things through socionics distracts me from what's actually going on.
    I understand what you mean in your first paragraph... I see it differently though. I'll explain.

    I don't see what I'm writing as problem-starting, or as a missionary role, converting people to a certain understanding of Socionics... Honestly, I don't post here for those reasons. Definitely not for "a good fight," or entertainment.

    Frankly, I'd rather not fight at all... I'm a journalist and I get enough fighting covering stories... I'd rather that discourses here be civil.

    Generally, I have two purposes in writing here... (Both regarding Socionics... Some people like to socialize here. I don't, to be honest.) The first is to tell the truth, as I see it, about reality... (This has become increasingly important to me as I've practiced Buddhism.) The second is to call attention to things that I think need it.

    The bottom line is that I write what I believe is true, and what I think needs to be said--I try toward that end anyway. And that's it... I can't control peoples' reactions to it... Granted, I would like to be liked--everybody would--but I've been through enough to know that it's not necessary... I'd rather just express what I see... That's more important to me than any "bashing" I'd receive--or praise, for that matter. (In Buddhism you're taught to let go of that stuff... They say it's ego-related, and the goal is not to feed that beast.)

    You wrote about my comment being "obviously unnecessary" and "needlessly problem causing." I disagree wholeheartedly. I made the comment for specific reasons--in this case, to validate what thePirate went through here at this forum, and draw parallels to what happened to me at this forum... I remember--and recall participating in--thePirate's initial typing thread. Somewhere in it, a user named Phaedrus typed him as ENFp, and doggedly defended it for PAGES (if I recall correctly.) At the time, I recall thePirate taking Phaedrus' advice to heart. (How could he have known that Phaedrus thought MBTI and Socionics were exactly the same thing? thePirate couldn't have known.) Ultimately, it took him awhile to figure out that he was ENFj.

    A very similar thing happened to me, (i.e. from being mistyped by others before finding out I was ENFj...)

    In other words, to me the comment wasn't "obviously unnecessary;" although I can understand how you, without having known any of this, would've thought so.

    Pointing out that this forum is a difficult place to learn Socionics, full of people who don't understand Socionics, and who use ad hominems..? To me, that's not problem-causing; it's just calling a spade a spade.

    I'll respond to your second point in a few minutes... I need to take a phone call.

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    Vuze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morcheeba View Post
    Hey, just because Hitler is EIE doesn't mean you are anything like him.
    disagree
    I just feel like I've done something to make you think that I care about you, like what you do or say. . . For that I am sorry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vuze View Post
    disagree
    Same.

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    EffyCold thePirate's Avatar
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    I get what you guys are saying in the sense that I am like him because we share the same type, strengths, weaknesses, etc but I think the sense Morcheeba was talking about is in the choices we make with our abilities and how we choose to look at things. In that realm, whether you are 'like' someone is completely a choice, I agree.
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Shut up, you pretentious fuck; nobody cares what you think.
    This is the second time I've read this and LOLd.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
    I get what you guys are saying in the sense that I am like him because we share the same type, strengths, weaknesses, etc but I think the sense Morcheeba was talking about is in the choices we make with our abilities and how we choose to look at things. In that realm, whether you are 'like' someone is completely a choice, I agree.
    No shit

    Being reactive is the name of the game if you're still thinking about Herr HIEDLER.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
    I get what you guys are saying in the sense that I am like him because we share the same type, strengths, weaknesses, etc but I think the sense Morcheeba was talking about is in the choices we make with our abilities and how we choose to look at things. In that realm, whether you are 'like' someone is completely a choice, I agree.
    I think they were really saying you have a rocking hitler-stache. Also that you hate jews.

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    EffyCold thePirate's Avatar
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    lol you crazy fucks

    welcome to beta indeed
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

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    Silverchris; as to that being a substitute vs. typing celebrities..? I haven't thought about it until now. My immediate reactions are:

    * I don't see why one would want to substitute one exclusively for the other. Why not do both?

    * I'm not 100% sure that typing literary characters is perfect substitute for typing real-life people... Here's why:

    A) Socionics attempts to predict how people will interact in real life... In literature, this 'prediction' part of Socionics is nullified by the fact that the author controls how characters get along w/ each other.

    B) In literature, the relationship between characters is an imaginary one, conceived by the author, often from his or another characters point of view. The author's bringing biases to the table, which might be relevant to Socionics. (That'd be interesting to investigate!) Regardless, these are filters that could potentially obscure a character's Sociotype.

    C) I've found some literary characters to be so uneven as to be untypeable. For example, I remember finding it difficult to type Marius in Hugo's Les Miserables--not because he undergoes so many changes, but because his character itself is inconsistent. Nothing against that book btw--it's one of my favorites of all-time.

    That said, in favor of typing literary characters vs. celebrities... In literature, personality isn't as open to interpretation--it's all in the text, thus typing positions could be supported, e.g. "Marius shows his skill with Ti by... [specific examples]." Whereas with celebrities, such impressions are fleeting, and more open to interpretation... (Now that I'm thinking about it, an old epistolary novel would be good to do this with... Richardson's Pamela maybe.)

    Also, as to whether or not my life has been enriched by viewing things through a Socionics lens... It's a good question... Yes, overall, and I'll explain--first, I'd go out of my way to caveat: Socionics is just one tool (in what's hopefully an arsenal one has to deal with life.)

    Socionics has helped me to understand the motives/perspectives of people who, earlier, I'd just written off as "jerks," or "oblivious," or "lazy," etc, many negative labels... For example, it helped me to understand my father [Se-ISFj] and older brother [Se-ESFp], two people whose POVs never quite clicked for me until I understood their Socionics types. Also, it helped me to understand why certain relationships I've had have been particularly meaningful and comfortable--those relationships were with my duals [ISTj] and (generally, in retrospect) other betas.

    Socionics has also helped me to understand more casual relationships in the same way--where people are coming from, their values, fears, desires, etc.

    Some people have complained that after learning Socionics, people seem "too predictable," like robots... I've never found that. Personally, people surprise me constantly... It's confirmed for me almost everyday that people are unique--and don't act exactly according to type. However, they're not that unique They are--and I am--a lot like other people--an important lesson that Socionics helped me to learn.

    Socionics has thrown me off balance a few times though... Initially, when I self-typed as ENFp, I thought that this system was useless, bordering on trickery. My relations didn't fit the descriptions--even though I tried like hell to make them fit, like pushing a square peg into etc... Also, there was a time when I was first beginning to understand Socionics, in late 2008, when peoples' Sociotypes were really all that I thought about... I studied people for hours and hours each day trying to perfect my understanding. It was obsessive, unhealthy, and caused me to lose sight of reality for awhile.

    All in all no one really is a Sociotype or really exhibits an info element, etc--Socionics is just a lens that can help people understand each other, and ideally improve relationships, increase satisfaction in them, etc. I can see how it could be abused, and lead people to misunderstandings... How it could either lead people away from reality, or toward it. both things happen at this forum all the time.

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    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JuJu View Post
    You wrote about my comment being "obviously unnecessary" and "needlessly problem causing." I disagree wholeheartedly. I made the comment for specific reasons--in this case, to validate what thePirate went through here at this forum, and draw parallels to what happened to me at this forum... I remember--and recall participating in--thePirate's initial typing thread. Somewhere in it, a user named Phaedrus typed him as ENFp, and doggedly defended it for PAGES (if I recall correctly.) At the time, I recall thePirate taking Phaedrus' advice to heart. (How could he have known that Phaedrus thought MBTI and Socionics were exactly the same thing? thePirate couldn't have known.) Ultimately, it took him awhile to figure out that he was ENFj.

    A very similar thing happened to me, (i.e. from being mistyped by others before finding out I was ENFj...)

    In other words, to me the comment wasn't "obviously unnecessary;" although I can understand how you, without having known any of this, would've thought so.
    Hmmm... rereading your post I suppose I agree to some degree. If you were merely expressing sympathy for a similar experience, I guess it's cool. Also, less of the post than I thought was reiterating your general position on socionics @ 16types and your method of socionics (whether or not that method is the correct method or whatever is a completely separate question on which I don't have a complete opinion), etc., although I still wouldn't assume that thePirate hasn't read much (all?) of that position on other threads (which is why I viewed it as unnecessary and intentionally provocative). That said, the context did help, so sorry for the previous post.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    normal people living their lives honestly like everyone else
    bahahahahaha, where's my knife
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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