View Poll Results: What is Kim's type?

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  • ESE

    4 25.00%
  • LII

    0 0%
  • ILE

    0 0%
  • SEI

    0 0%
  • IEI

    2 12.50%
  • EIE

    1 6.25%
  • LSI

    0 0%
  • SLE

    0 0%
  • SEE

    0 0%
  • ILI

    0 0%
  • LIE

    0 0%
  • ESI

    0 0%
  • SLI

    0 0%
  • EII

    0 0%
  • IEE

    9 56.25%
  • LSE

    0 0%
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Thread: Kim's type

  1. #1
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    Default Kim's type

    I came as an ENFp and have remained one for many years. However, now that WWT has changed his type to ENFj, I am a little confused because I identified with him a lot (although I think the Monk has added an edge over the years).

    ESFj has been suggested for me; I have also heard ISFj and ENFj. I still think IEE fits best, but I am curious what others think.

    I don't really know a lot about ESFjs, to be honest.
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
    ― Pablo Neruda

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    WWT?
    today is a gift, that's why its called the present

  3. #3
    Kim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sammy View Post
    WWT?
    Wrong Way Ticket (formerly NeonMonk) :wink:
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
    ― Pablo Neruda

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    ahh :wink:
    today is a gift, that's why its called the present

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    EffyCold thePirate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    I came as an ENFp and have remained one for many years. However, now that WWT has changed his type to ENFj, I am a little confused because I identified with him a lot (although I think the Monk has added an edge over the years).

    ESFj has been suggested for me; I have also heard ISFj and ENFj. I still think IEE fits best, but I am curious what others think.

    I don't really know a lot about ESFjs, to be honest.
    hey, Im going through something similar myself. I dont know much about you, why do you think you are each type? could you provide a little background info?(preferably regarding preference of elements, maybe a story or something, etc)
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

  6. #6
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Gobs and gobs of Fe.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  7. #7
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolanzon View Post
    And then I'm off in the corner, chillin'.

    Like always :frown:
    This is a thread about Kim's type, so it doesn't really make sense to talk about people who don't even know her.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  8. #8
    EffyCold thePirate's Avatar
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    when does anything he says ever make sense
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

  9. #9
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolanzon View Post
    I was making fun of myself. Disregard.
    I really don't mean to just hate on you all the time man, really I don't, but you just need to find the appropriate time for this kind of stuff.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  10. #10
    Creepy-male

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    No problem. I deleted my posts. *slinks out of thread*

  11. #11
    A Tiger livin' in a zoo.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    I came as an ENFp and have remained one for many years. However, now that WWT has changed his type to ENFj, I am a little confused because I identified with him a lot (although I think the Monk has added an edge over the years).

    ESFj has been suggested for me; I have also heard ISFj and ENFj. I still think IEE fits best, but I am curious what others think.

    I don't really know a lot about ESFjs, to be honest.
    I actually sent several type descriptions to a group of friends of mine and asked them which fitted me best. People from real life, that is. They chose EIE, without exception. Maybe you should try the same thing?

    I don't think that forum posts are a very accurate way to type someone. But my vote goes ESE. You're just way cooler and more forceful than the other IEEs around here. It's what I love about you!

  12. #12
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolanzon View Post
    No problem. I deleted my posts. *slinks out of thread*
    You don't have to be sheepish about it. Nobody is going to punish you, nobody is going to hurt you or smack you around. Just...try to be a little more reverent, that's all.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  13. #13
    Kim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huginn View Post

    And you're surely the essence of the Bonvivant, the Enthusiast! Gilly and I were talking about it: you're a beacon of light and we're sure you'll stop at nothing to make the world a happy place.

    and surely we're duals...
    That is so sweet, thank you!

    WWT, thanks, lol. But maybe I just have a temper? Whenever I am forceful, I feel bad shortly after...

    Although I have always thought that my next likely type would be SEE, I have sometimes wondered if my next likely quadra would really be gamma.

    FWIW, Gilly has been saying for a long time that I look like an ESE and looking at some pictures of ESE I will say it's true. I just spent a few days with a couple who are ESE and LII and I do identify with the ESE a lot.

    The problem is that I could start to describe myself and such, but given that I have never seriously doubted that I am IEE, I don't know how objective I can be. What do I do?
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
    ― Pablo Neruda

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolanzon View Post
    No problem. I deleted my posts. *slinks out of thread*
    No worries! Stay around, please!
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
    ― Pablo Neruda

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    Gilly sucks at V.I.

    Just thought I'd throw that out.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    Gilly sucks at V.I.

    Just thought I'd throw that out.


    Do we have a reliable ESE gallery somewhere?

    I asked SEE boyfriend to describe me and he said "is this a letters thing again? How often have I done this now?"

    Intertype relations are as follows:

    Mom LSE (get along great)
    Dad EII (get along great)
    Sister ESI (get along great, but differ in many aspects. We accept each other for who we are and don't let our differences affect our relationship)
    Boyfriend SEE
    Closest friends: 2x SEE (Fi) and EII - The people I absolutely feel most comfortable with. They really know me.
    LIE - I love her, but I don't feel as comfortable with her as I do with the other two. She can be a bit judgmental and a bit of a snob (culture, music, etc), but we have been friends forever and she is great and I love hanging out with her. I just don't open up as easily as I do with the others.
    ESE-LII couple - They are so wonderful. I just spend a few days with them and it was so much fun. They are fun and sweet and quirky and I LOVE being around them.

    Does that help a bit, maybe?
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
    ― Pablo Neruda

  17. #17
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    I will try to free myself of all I think I know of Socionics:

    How exactly would I distinguish between EJ and EP temperament?
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
    ― Pablo Neruda

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    How exactly would I distinguish between EJ and EP temperament?
    Easy, most EJ people that I know complain about a certain tension inside their body they always have. They also cannot easely let go their thoughts of their work when they are home.
    They can and will always work at full speed.

    Most EP people that I know, are often cool and lazy, like IP temperament, but other times energetic. Though not energetic like tensed EJ, but a free go with the flow attitude. They can control their work speed.

    can you recognize something of yourself in one of these?

  19. #19
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    I don't know you well enough to provide you with any leads, but I've read enough of your posts to know that ENFp--or delta for that matter--was a mistyping.

    Good for you for having the courage to reconsider your type publicly.

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    EJs always seem to be doing things purposefully, and a lot of times they seem rushed. When I walk with this other EIE I know, we always walk really fast. Sometimes when I'm getting ready to go somewhere, my friends will ask me "You seem in a big hurry -- are you late to something??" Even when I have plenty of time.

    Then again, it might be different for Si creative EJs than Si PoLR EJs. But I suspect that all EJs do everything with a "purpose" -- albeit one that varies depending on their ego functions.
    EIE-Ni

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    Quote Originally Posted by nilv View Post
    EJs always seem to be doing things purposefully, and a lot of times they seem rushed. When I walk with this other EIE I know, we always walk really fast. Sometimes when I'm getting ready to go somewhere, my friends will ask me "You seem in a big hurry -- are you late to something??" Even when I have plenty of time.

    But I suspect that all EJs do everything with a "purpose" --
    correct. good observation.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    Easy, most EJ people that I know complain about a certain tension inside their body they always have. They also cannot easely let go their thoughts of their work when they are home.
    They can and will always work at full speed.

    Most EP people that I know, are often cool and lazy, like IP temperament, but other times energetic. Though not energetic like tensed EJ, but a free go with the flow attitude. They can control their work speed.

    can you recognize something of yourself in one of these?
    See, I don't know! My work routine is as follows (going on right now, actually):
    Feel guilty for not working - work for an hour-get distracted-work for an hour-do something else-feel guilty-work for an hour-have a great idea-think about it-feel guilty for not working on what I should be working on-start working on something else that is sort of important but could wait-feel guilty and so on and so forth.

    I do not work consistently, but I also can't really get the work out of my head. When I work, I work at full speed I think. But I can also be lazy and enjoy it. I do know that I like a flexible schedule although it makes it harder for me to stay focused. I don't like to plan ahead too much because it makes me feel stifled. I like to work on several projects at the same time because I can switch back and forth.

    Juju, what speak against IEE?
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    See, I don't know! My work routine is as follows (going on right now, actually):
    Feel guilty for not working - work for an hour-get distracted-work for an hour-do something else-feel guilty-work for an hour-have a great idea-think about it-feel guilty for not working on what I should be working on-start working on something else that is sort of important but could wait-feel guilty and so on and so forth.

    I do not work consistently, but I also can't really get the work out of my head. When I work, I work at full speed I think. But I can also be lazy and enjoy it. I do know that I like a flexible schedule although it makes it harder for me to stay focused. I don't like to plan ahead too much because it makes me feel stifled. I like to work on several projects at the same time because I can switch back and forth.
    1 it helps if you don't look at yourself, but rather think of 2 people who have the EP and EJ temperament, and try to see with who you compare most with, regarding temperament.

    2 judgers like to work finish a project before starting on another. perceivers like to work at several at a time. So far that was the clearest remark you made which points to ...P

    At this point your temperamant somewhat points to EP.

  24. #24
    Board philosopher or bored philosopher? jason_m's Avatar
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    Kim,

    As you probably know, socionics is basically a system of intertype relations. The main difference between ESEs and IEEs is based primarily how they relate to each type. Sometimes people on the forum get lost in all the descriptions, the functions, who they like on the forum, and so forth and end up missing the forest for the trees. All of this is understandable, but to figure out whether you are an ENFp or an ESFj you have to look at your relations.

    Here are basically the main differences between ENFps and ESFjs:

    - ENFps like people who are both down-to-earth and practical. Someone who is good with their hands and can fix things and take care of their comfort in a practical way is greatly appreciated. On the other hand, ESFjs like people who are logical, people who can help them solve logical problems, who can structure their ideas and thoughts and perhaps help them put things in perspective.

    - ENFps dislike people who are too logical, people who are "stubborn" and "think they know everything." ESFjs dislike people who are too "out there", people who are into things like the occult or abstract art. (Both types should actually dislike mystical or esoteric people, but this rings much more true with ESFjs.) Also, ENFps tend to dislike people who are strong, blunt and forceful, while ESFjs tend to dislike people who place too much emphasis on work and practicality.

    - Both types can be spontaneous and unpredictable, but ENFps are more likely to seem "spaced-out" from time to time or are perhaps less focused. Also, ENFps place more emphasis on morals, class and a person's personal qualities, while ESFjs place more emphasis on cheerfulness, positivity, and enthusiasm. Further, ESFjs are more interested in taking care of other people's comfort, while ENFps are more focused on the big picture and major issues, perhaps things that have to do with new cultures and new ideas...

    (I hope this helps. If you have any other questions, just ask. And, for the record, I am huge fan of both ENFps and ESFjs - it's just that I find that I get along much better with one type more than the other...)

    Jason
    LII

  25. #25
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    Jarno, I relate more to EP temperament I think. I met Expat, for example, who is indisputably EJ temperament and I am not nearly as high strung I don't think...

    Quote Originally Posted by jason_m View Post
    Kim,

    As you probably know, socionics is basically a system of intertype relations. The main difference between ESEs and IEEs is based primarily how they relate to each type. Sometimes people on the forum get lost in all the descriptions, the functions, who they like on the forum, and so forth and end up missing the forest for the trees. All of this is understandable, but to figure out whether you are an ENFp or an ESFj you have to look at your relations.
    Right, but when you have yourself mistyped, chances are that you have mistyped others as well. But I am 100% sure of my ex's type (ISTp) and my sister's type (ISFj). And my two friends' type (ESFps). And these intertype relations point to IEE.

    - ENFps like people who are both down-to-earth and practical. Someone who is good with their hands and can fix things and take care of their comfort in a practical way is greatly appreciated. On the other hand, ESFjs like people who are logical, people who can help them solve logical problems, who can structure their ideas and thoughts and perhaps help them put things in perspective.
    I know I like practical and down-to-earth people. When I ask people for their opinion, I want realistic input that is applicable. I easily feel patronized when people try to help me using logic.

    Also, ENFps tend to dislike people who are strong, blunt and forceful, while ESFjs tend to dislike people who place too much emphasis on work and practicality.
    Hands down ENFp. I can get bored with an over-emphasis on work, but practical people could never make me feel uncomfortable while blunt and forceful people make me uneasy quickly.

    - Both types can be spontaneous and unpredictable, but ENFps are more likely to seem "spaced-out" from time to time or are perhaps less focused. Also, ENFps place more emphasis on morals, class and a person's personal qualities, while ESFjs place more emphasis on cheerfulness, positivity, and enthusiasm. Further, ESFjs are more interested in taking care of other people's comfort, while ENFps are more focused on the big picture and major issues, perhaps things that have to do with new cultures and new ideas...
    I am certainly more about new things, cultures, people, places and I like to move around. I wouldn't mind having a comfortable homebase, but ideally someone else would make it comfortable for me. However, most people would describe me as positive, cheerful, and enthusiastic. I don't care about morals and class (what does that mean?), but personal qualities are important. They determine whether or not I want to be around a person.



    FOR FIVE YEARS I POUR MY LITTLE HEART OUT ON THIS FORUM AND SEVEN PEOPLE VOTE! I am hurt...
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
    ― Pablo Neruda

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    FOR FIVE YEARS I POUR MY LITTLE HEART OUT ON THIS FORUM AND SEVEN PEOPLE VOTE! I am hurt...


    Okay okay, it's eight now.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Fe's, at least Fe dominants (especially ESE's), seem to avoid doing or saying anything that might ruin a positive emotional atmosphere, such as limiting talk of deep/personal feelings/sentiments and anything else that could seem too interpersonal
    Their preferred method is to cheer people up with a warm and positive demeanor, whereas IEE's take on a more psychological approach, such as giving people encouragement in themselves and/or their abilities.
    Generally, I find that ESE's are not the kind of people to have deep, serious, conversations with. If you attempt to do so they'll try to divert it, sensing that the exchange in, seemingly, depressing sentiments needs to be extinguished (Fe>Fi).
    Whereas IEE's tend to rather enjoy discussions of these sorts, depending on their mood at least
    EII INFj
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    F
    Generally, I find that ESE's are not the kind of people to have deep, serious, conversations with. If you attempt to do so they'll try to divert it, sensing that the exchange in, seemingly, depressing sentiments needs to be extinguished (Fe>Fi).
    I disagree. Having a profound conversation with any Fe-type is achieved very easily in a small group (four or less) and, especially, one-on-one. Also, depending on the overall atmosphere of the group, for example, if the general mood is "depressingly sentimental", then Fe types will engage in deep conversations then as well.

    I am not a Fe-valuer myself but I think this forum as a whole needs to be a little more understanding.
    Ceci n'est pas une eii.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    Fe's, at least Fe dominants (especially ESE's), seem to avoid doing or saying anything that might ruin a positive emotional atmosphere, such as limiting talk of deep/personal feelings/sentiments and anything else that could seem too interpersonal
    Their preferred method is to cheer people up with a warm and positive demeanor, whereas IEE's take on a more psychological approach, such as giving people encouragement in themselves and/or their abilities.
    Generally, I find that ESE's are not the kind of people to have deep, serious, conversations with. If you attempt to do so they'll try to divert it, sensing that the exchange in, seemingly, depressing sentiments needs to be extinguished (Fe>Fi).
    Whereas IEE's tend to rather enjoy discussions of these sorts, depending on their mood at least
    This lines up with my observations.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greeter View Post
    I disagree. Having a profound conversation with any Fe-type is achieved very easily in a small group (four or less) and, especially, one-on-one. Also, depending on the overall atmosphere of the group, for example, if the general mood is "depressingly sentimental", then Fe types will engage in deep conversations then as well.

    I am not a Fe-valuer myself but I think this forum as a whole needs to be a little more understanding.
    You could be right, I'm only expressing my own experience with said types.
    But of course I'm also seeing things through a bias since Fe ignores the Fi approach, and vice versa, there still stands a lack of understanding, at least with Alpha Fe's, not so much Beta Fe's, minus the different/opposing solutions for said problems being discussed....
    EII INFj
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  31. #31
    cunnilingus epilepsy inducer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    Fe's, at least Fe dominants (especially ESE's), seem to avoid doing or saying anything that might ruin a positive emotional atmosphere, such as limiting talk of deep/personal feelings/sentiments and anything else that could seem too interpersonal
    I would say Fe dominates do talk about personal feelings but they just do it in a different way as described here: The Socionist: The Information Aspects Revisited

    Verbs describing influencing feelings
    extraverted ethics focuses on the external (observable) actions associated with emotional interaction (excite, praise, get going, hurt, fool, offend, cheer up, scare, make laugh, comfort, calm down), while introverted ethics focuses on internal feelings (trouble, get tired of, make nervious, offend, let down, scare, irritate, make mad, make upsent, calm). Note that the same words can be used, but with a different emphasis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    Jarno, I relate more to EP temperament I think. I met Expat, for example, who is indisputably EJ temperament and I am not nearly as high strung I don't think...



    Right, but when you have yourself mistyped, chances are that you have mistyped others as well. But I am 100% sure of my ex's type (ISTp) and my sister's type (ISFj). And my two friends' type (ESFps). And these intertype relations point to IEE.



    I know I like practical and down-to-earth people. When I ask people for their opinion, I want realistic input that is applicable. I easily feel patronized when people try to help me using logic.



    Hands down ENFp. I can get bored with an over-emphasis on work, but practical people could never make me feel uncomfortable while blunt and forceful people make me uneasy quickly.



    I am certainly more about new things, cultures, people, places and I like to move around. I wouldn't mind having a comfortable homebase, but ideally someone else would make it comfortable for me. However, most people would describe me as positive, cheerful, and enthusiastic. I don't care about morals and class (what does that mean?), but personal qualities are important. They determine whether or not I want to be around a person.



    FOR FIVE YEARS I POUR MY LITTLE HEART OUT ON THIS FORUM AND SEVEN PEOPLE VOTE! I am hurt...
    Well, I know that you don't like being helped with logic, but my vote is for IEE - if you look at your response, the pieces generally fit together .

    Jason
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    Quote Originally Posted by jason_m View Post
    Well, I know that you don't like being helped with logic, but my vote is for IEE - if you look at your response, the pieces generally fit together .

    Jason


    It seems like it, although I would be very curious to hear more from the ESE and IEI advocates.
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
    ― Pablo Neruda

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    Kim is my archetypal female ENFp whom I use to type others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jason_m View Post
    Kim,

    As you probably know, socionics is basically a system of intertype relations. The main difference between ESEs and IEEs is based primarily how they relate to each type. Sometimes people on the forum get lost in all the descriptions, the functions, who they like on the forum, and so forth and end up missing the forest for the trees. All of this is understandable, but to figure out whether you are an ENFp or an ESFj you have to look at your relations.

    Here are basically the main differences between ENFps and ESFjs:

    - ENFps like people who are both down-to-earth and practical. Someone who is good with their hands and can fix things and take care of their comfort in a practical way is greatly appreciated. On the other hand, ESFjs like people who are logical, people who can help them solve logical problems, who can structure their ideas and thoughts and perhaps help them put things in perspective.

    - ENFps dislike people who are too logical, people who are "stubborn" and "think they know everything." ESFjs dislike people who are too "out there", people who are into things like the occult or abstract art. (Both types should actually dislike mystical or esoteric people, but this rings much more true with ESFjs.) Also, ENFps tend to dislike people who are strong, blunt and forceful, while ESFjs tend to dislike people who place too much emphasis on work and practicality.

    - Both types can be spontaneous and unpredictable, but ENFps are more likely to seem "spaced-out" from time to time or are perhaps less focused. Also, ENFps place more emphasis on morals, class and a person's personal qualities, while ESFjs place more emphasis on cheerfulness, positivity, and enthusiasm. Further, ESFjs are more interested in taking care of other people's comfort, while ENFps are more focused on the big picture and major issues, perhaps things that have to do with new cultures and new ideas...

    (I hope this helps. If you have any other questions, just ask. And, for the record, I am huge fan of both ENFps and ESFjs - it's just that I find that I get along much better with one type more than the other...)

    Jason
    Are these your own observations? To me these are traits which depend on the individual and are sort of difficult to compound as type related.

    ENFps like people who are both down-to-earth and practical. Someone who is good with their hands and can fix things and take care of their comfort in a practical way is greatly appreciated. On the other hand, ESFjs like people who are logical, people who can help them solve logical problems, who can structure their ideas and thoughts and perhaps help them put things in perspective.
    Who doesn't like someone who is good with their hands and can fix things? It saves a packet on having to pay tradesmen for instance. Also, both ESFj's and ENFp's would like people who logical if they're 'dual hunting'? ha, they are both T seekers after all.


    ENFps dislike people who are too logical, people who are "stubborn" and "think they know everything."
    A lot of INTj's and ISTp's are stubborn, it says in a few type descriptions as far as I can recall that ISTp's are stubborn, so i'm not sure what point you make.
    ESFjs dislike people who are too "out there", people who are into things like the occult or abstract art. (Both types should actually dislike mystical or esoteric people, but this rings much more true with ESFjs.) Also, ENFps tend to dislike people who are strong, blunt and forceful, while ESFjs tend to dislike people who place too much emphasis on work and practicality.
    See this isn't particularly true, ESFj's can be quite practical at work and they like being around people who are practical as well, not everyone is automatically programmed for their dual. Also - an ESFj may view an INTj as practical, if they are good at planning and stuff, so I suppose maybe there is too much vagueries in it.

    ------------------------------

    @Kim, you don't like logic yet you offer nothing to type you from, so I don't know why you are asking for more information. lol, I do wonder if this perhaps another 'excuse' in a way for you to get attention for yourself. Kinda forced attention in a way I don't quite associate with ENFp, but I don't see you being ENFp and think you are quite different from the other ENFp's who post here - not that me seeing you as different from the other ENFp's is particularly anything to go by of course. I suppose I can try to put it into more examples later, but there isn't anything in it for me and I don't like to feed your ego -which it can seem like, sorry, hmmmm.

    This sort of stuff:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kim
    FOR FIVE YEARS I POUR MY LITTLE HEART OUT ON THIS FORUM AND SEVEN PEOPLE VOTE! I am hurt...
    And similiar stuff like that which you do contributes to me thinking that you are ENFj. ENFj's are like the "social dictators", they demand attention from people. As a for instance, there is an ENFj cleaner where I work, and one morning I was walking along the corridor to go into the workplace, I didn't say anything to her as I was still half asleep and thought she was busy so didn't want to interupt, and she really glared at me and said, "good morning 'Cyclops'"!, so I sort of smiled and said, "morning"! and everything was OK again. It is like she forces her prescence on people in a way, and she's quite loud and such.

    You seem to go around the forum looking for attention and sort of demanding in a similar way, ... to play by your 'rules' - like the "confessions of an IEE" thread you did, which weren't really confessions at all, it was just a vehicle excuse for you to talk about yourself and for wanting people to go, "awww, you're so great" or etc. Making yourself the focal point - rewarding those who played the 'Fe' game - and criticising those who didn't until they joined in in the way you'd expect - kinda like that ENFj I mentioned!

    But you are both nice people, I suppose it's their strong ethics which help them get away with it, people I work with we talk to the ENFj every so often, but there are quite a few alphas were I work, and I can only handle her in small doses.

    As much as perhaps my post could be disregarded, i've put down some thoughts just now, I owe that to you/myself I suppose.


    Good luck with your typing.


    I know I like practical and down-to-earth people. When I ask people for their opinion, I want realistic input that is applicable. I easily feel patronized when people try to help me using logic.
    Difficult to give an extra opinion you ask for when you don't want it to be logical, but hopefully i've treaded your line carefully enough

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    @Kim, you don't like logic yet you offer nothing to type you from, so I don't know why you are asking for more information. lol,
    I didn't say I don't like logic, I said I prefer practical advice because logical can make me feel patronized. That does not mean that it always does or that I don't like it.


    I do wonder if this perhaps another 'excuse' in a way for you to get attention for yourself. Kinda forced attention in a way I don't quite associate with ENFp, but I don't see you being ENFp and think you are quite different from the other ENFp's who post here - not that me seeing you as different from the other ENFp's is particularly anything to go by of course. I suppose I can try to put it into more examples later, but there isn't anything in it for me and I don't like to feed your ego -which it can seem like, sorry, hmmmm.
    I opened this thread because people suggested I am ESE and I wanted more input. Isn't ANY post on this forum about ourselves attention whoring per your definition? And do I really, if you take a good look around, continuously open threads to talk about myself? Or is perhaps that you don't like me and don't want me in my quadra? I am not saying that this is the case, but some of your arguments are more indicative or your personal feelings towards me as an individual than of my type.

    I also mentioned in this thread that I don't provide a self-description because I don't know how non-biased towards IEE it could be considering I have identified with that type for a while. I was looking for other ways, for example specific questions.

    The plea for more votes was meant to be funny. And of course I want a lot of votes: they give me more to go by in terms of how other people perceive me.

    And similiar stuff like that which you do contributes to me thinking that you are ENFj. ENFj's are like the "social dictators", they demand attention from people. As a for instance, there is an ENFj cleaner where I work, and one morning I was walking along the corridor to go into the workplace, I didn't say anything to her as I was still half asleep and thought she was busy so didn't want to interupt, and she really glared at me and said, "good morning 'Cyclops'"!, so I sort of smiled and said, "morning"! and everything was OK again. It is like she forces her prescence on people in a way, and she's quite loud and such.
    I would like to ask you again if I really demand that much attention? Also, I would NEVER act like the EIE you describe. I would smile at you and say good morning. I also do not force my presence on people. I am actually quite shy, believe it or not. I open up around close friends and can be hyper and loud. But if we had a Socionics meeting, I would probably be rather quiet for a while. This is not to say that I cannot be EIE, but I just don't identify with that example.

    You seem to go around the forum looking for attention and sort of demanding in a similar way, ... to play by your 'rules' - like the "confessions of an IEE" thread you did, which weren't really confessions at all, it was just a vehicle excuse for you to talk about yourself and for wanting people to go, "awww, you're so great" or etc. Making yourself the focal point - rewarding those who played the 'Fe' game - and criticising those who didn't until they joined in in the way you'd expect - kinda like that ENFj I mentioned!
    I think you are overusing that thread as evidence. I was frustrated because you came across as condescending, not because you "didn't give me the attention I wanted." I also was not looking for "you are so great," but rather "yeah, I identify with that and xyz." Again, how much of your perception of that thread is an objective assessment of my behavior and how much of it reflects on your opinion of me as an individual?

    But you are both nice people, I suppose it's their strong ethics which help them get away with it, people I work with we talk to the ENFj every so often, but there are quite a few alphas were I work, and I can only handle her in small doses.
    Like I said, I don't identify with the behavior you described, but perhaps she does other things I can identify with.

    And again, LOGIC IS FINE, PEOPLE! I was just picking between two option and said what CAN do to me.
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
    ― Pablo Neruda

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Who doesn't like someone who is good with their hands and can fix things? It saves a packet on having to pay tradesmen for instance.
    It's something that, unfortunately, I don't find particularly interesting...

    Also, both ESFj's and ENFp's would like people who logical if they're 'dual hunting'? ha, they are both T seekers after all.
    One is logical in a more practical way, the other is more logical in the sense of searching for truth, analysis, etc. Search the Russian descriptions and find me a Te description that describes Te egos as impractical and searching for truth analysis, etc. Okay, now try to find ten of them. I think you'll see what I mean...

    A lot of INTj's and ISTp's are stubborn, it says in a few type descriptions as far as I can recall that ISTp's are stubborn, so i'm not sure what point you make.
    The point is not what it says in a few descriptions, but what the descriptions generally say.

    See this isn't particularly true, ESFj's can be quite practical at work and they like being around people who are practical as well, not everyone is automatically programmed for their dual.
    Yes, a minority of ESFjs are like this, but the majority are probably not, as Te types are generally the most practical. (That's why they like fixing cars, starting their own businesses, knowing what to buy, etc. Take a look at the large majority of descriptions to see what I'm saying.)

    Are these your own observations? To me these are traits which depend on the individual and are sort of difficult to compound as type related.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huggin
    Agreed.

    As for the rest of it, I really think ESE >>>> EIE
    These are traits that I've synthesized from the descriptions and have applied to real life. I am not looking for absolute answers to the questions, but for a general trend; it is not necessary that every trait be specific only to one type. The benefit to my approach is that it is objective. Whether or not I personally like Kim, I try to search for the information elements that best-fit her apparent personality in order to help determine what her type is.

    What I've discovered that is most relevant to this discussion is an idea I've been working on. It essentially involves the notion of a "blurring" of information elements. For instance, I met a bartender today who I could not distinguish between IEE and ESE; Fi-creative is not always represented as deep moral sentiments. Sometimes IEEs can be outgoing and cheerful, but they generally need someone who is more down-to-earth. On top of this, even if they like me, it doesn't really throw into question either of our personality types. It just means that the IMs can be "blurred" in such a way that to one person an IEE could be an ESE, while to another they are an IEE. This means that in discovering a person's personality type, I simply interview them using a description of IMs that I think might fit them and leave my purely subjective impressions of their type out of it - and I'm only looking for a general trend. On the other hand, in dealing with people on a day-to-day basis, I don't go purely by types, but try hard to see what other people think of me (and there does seem to be a trend...).
    Last edited by jason_m; 01-24-2010 at 04:45 AM.
    LII

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    Quote Originally Posted by jason_m View Post
    One is logical in a more practical way, the other is more logical in the sense of searching for truth, analysis, etc. Search the Russian descriptions and find me a Te description that describes Te egos as impractical and searching for truth analysis, etc. Okay, now try to find ten of them. I think you'll see what I mean...
    This ^
    I would think IEE's want someone who will deal with practical matters, not get them to analyze their logical coherency, that's more Ti seeking from my understanding
    IEE's are already a spiral of constant doubting without the PoLR hits
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    I didn't say I don't like logic, I said I prefer practical advice because logical can make me feel patronized. That does not mean that it always does or that I don't like it.
    Ok, whatever calm down.




    I opened this thread because people suggested I am ESE and I wanted more input. Isn't ANY post on this forum about ourselves attention whoring per your definition? And do I really, if you take a good look around, continuously open threads to talk about myself? Or is perhaps that you don't like me and don't want me in my quadra? I am not saying that this is the case, but some of your arguments are more indicative or your personal feelings towards me as an individual than of my type.
    Oh god, go and argue with someone else.



    The plea for more votes was meant to be funny. And of course I want a lot of votes: they give me more to go by in terms of how other people perceive me.
    Perhaps it was meant to be funny, but to me it is an "Fe" dominant type of humour.



    I would like to ask you again if I really demand that much attention? Also, I would NEVER act like the EIE you describe. I would smile at you and say good morning. I also do not force my presence on people. I am actually quite shy, believe it or not. I open up around close friends and can be hyper and loud. But if we had a Socionics meeting, I would probably be rather quiet for a while. This is not to say that I cannot be EIE, but I just don't identify with that example.
    It seems that way to me, why do you re-demand on me? If you actually are like that, doesn't mean it's a bad thing and all that.. I'm only telling you how you seem to come across to me, i'm sure no-one would describe themselves as "forcing" themselves on others, but...consider that you can't decide if you are "P" or "J" from earlier conversations in the thread, maybe you don't know how you come across at all (on the basis you aren't even sure how you work).

    The EIE is quite shy as well, she just manevoures in different ways, and I don't have the capacity or create the time to elaborate fully for you.

    So disregard it if you want, but you seem to chop and change in ways far too much to be a static Fi type.



    I think you are overusing that thread as evidence. I was frustrated because you came across as condescending, not because you "didn't give me the attention I wanted." I also was not looking for "you are so great," but rather "yeah, I identify with that and xyz." Again, how much of your perception of that thread is an objective assessment of my behavior and how much of it reflects on your opinion of me as an individual?
    Maybe I am or not like you said, it was just an example, if there are other ones, maybe you could link them, I suppose it's just how I see you come across. All this "auntie Kim" stuff, I mean, come on, lol.

    Anyway, you made a thread about your type and I did my best to give you my input, i'm not sure how well we're comminicating, probably not all that well, it seems we accuse eath other of things which is in a way kinda comincal, but I don't like discussing things this way and it seems we have a problem in communication - whether that's incompatibility in types or something else, I don't know, maybe we are duals and just don't get on, lol.


    Like I said, I don't identify with the behavior you described, but perhaps she does other things I can identify with.
    OK, you said it already, why nag by repeating yourself? (see, the communication thing).

    OK - I find the "like I said" thing something which is more confrontational for an ENFp, it comes across as putting foot down, they'd usually just laugh and leave it to diplomacy - indeed, sometimes they just agree with someone even if they don't agree internally at that time (which has made me wonder if it actually works to overcome some of the ISTp stubborness) - because their Ne sees potential in future relationships with the person even when none is apparent now, but you in general seem to "clatter" in easier which suggests to me very much so a lack of Ne with Fi - which maybe you're strong opinions on some subjects are what you see as Fi, where it's not really Fi when there is Ne as the main function (and probably not Fi at all, more like Fe with external behavioural norms and such).

    Maybe your strong opinions on ethical issues makes you seem less shy - your slogan, "off to the moral high ground", so perhaps you don't seem as shy as what you can maybe come across as?

    The nature of our conversation strikes me as confrontation, which isn't how it works with me with ENFp's. To me it's the sort of communication that I feel I have with *some* Fe dominants, not with ENFp's, so fwiw *I* don't think you are ENFp, but you should'nt listen to me and make up your own mind!

    Nothing good will come from the two of us communicating for now I think, maybe later. Seems we just rub each other up the wrong way for now, sorry about that.

    And again, LOGIC IS FINE, PEOPLE! I was just picking between two option and said what CAN do to me.
    You're just so demanding for an ENFp - it's like you've either a strong caregiver vibe or are challenging in some Beta way, I think you are ENFj but I suppose ESFj is possible.

  40. #40
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    @Jason M, thank you for clarifying some more.

    @Jason M and Marie84, I agree with what you are saying on paper that an IEE should prefer someone who is more with a practical logic, but I say the line is blurred, for instance, Rick, who's an IEE has commented that SLI's bring out his intellectual capacities, not sure how a purely "practical" logic could do that.

    Also, if you've ever spoke to myself or iannau, you can see we can be a bit of a thinker and philosophical at times, so although it seems you are meaning well, i'm not convinced that these definitions lifted from paper and internet fully encapsulate who we are as people.

    However, it's a debate that's too repetitive to have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops
    Who doesn't like someone who is good with their hands and can fix things? It saves a packet on having to pay tradesmen for instance.
    Quote Originally Posted by jason_m
    It's something that, unfortunately, I don't find particularly interesting...
    I thought this was interesting, ever seen that brickies mate thing on the tv, the guy that made something to build walls and stuff? He's an ESFj. I think you are INTj yeah?

    I guess what i'm saying is that I find your approach too abstract to be of use here, like I said - plenty ESFj's are practical and plenty aren't - same as ISTp's.

    However, same logic could be used on you - why wouldn't you as an INTj find someone who can do these things interesting? It's S and it's caregiving. As you are not interested in it maybe you could extrapolate the same thought onto an ENFp and consider that not all ISTp's are plumbers and equally not all ENFp's would be interested.

    However, I don't know anyone who has their own house who doesn't like someone who can do practical matters, regardless of type.

    Edit: In short, I think that applying the definitions as you do to real people doesn't work. It may in some cases but most people aren't cookie cutters and neither are they dough. It seems partly a difference between thinking in formulas vs practical applications of people.
    Last edited by Cyclops; 01-24-2010 at 02:54 PM.

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