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Thread: Enneagram: differences between type 4 and type 9

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    Default Enneagram: differences between type 4 and type 9

    I have always seen myself as an E4, based on tests and descriptions and my view of myself, but lately in tests I have consistently scored E9 rather than E4 (in at least two different pretty thorough tests). So what gives, how do I know what type I am?
    INFp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    In my opinion you are an E4w5, but E9 would be my second guess. Have you read descriptions?

    Btw, I don't think you are an sx/sp. I think you are so/sx.
    Yes, I have up until now not found the 9 descriptions to resonate very much with me. There are however a few points there that are very accurate... that and the resent test scores have made me curious if I have my E type correct.
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    4 vs 9: Fours use separation to proudly affirm how different they are while nines fear being separated from others.
    and...
    Both types can therefore be shy, absent-minded, confused, and detached from the real world. The difference is that Nines are detached both from the external world and from their emotions, whereas Fours withdraw from whatever has caused them pain. (In the end, that may add up to quite a lot.) Nines see the world through rose-colored glasses, and their view of it is comforting, whereas Fours see the world from a garret window as outsiders and are not comforted: everyone else seems to be living a happier, more normal life.
    The saddest ESFj

    ...

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    At least for 9w1s, I wonder if a problem for them/us is being intolerant of our own emotions at times, and trying to reason them away (or anaesthetise them), where a Four would want to become absorbed and indulge in whatever they're going through instead so they have a powerful experience?

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    9s are dumb. that's the best way to tell.
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    I think the biggest indicator of the difference between 4 and 9 is the way they handle conflict. 9s tend to ignore and/or be unable to handle conflict or know what to do with it. They see conflict as something unnecessary and something to be stopped or avoided for the sake of it. 4s might handle conflict in a number of ways. 4s might shy away from conflict because of feelings of insecurity, or they might show their claws and may be seen as overreacting to conflict or even conflict initiators especially being that they are reactive.

    9s tend to be neutral in most aspects of life. 4s have strong and well defined feelings toward one side or another.

    9s are inert and calm. 4s are dramatic and sometimes self-centered.

    9s tend to be quite passive. 4s can be very stubborn.

    Both can be dreamy and imaginative, but usually in the case of 9w1 and not as much in 9w8. it's unlikely that a 9w8 would be confused as a 4 though because of how heavily inert they are even in the emotional sense.

    9s tend toward non-conflict even in cases of subtle hostility. 4s are heavily influenced by their emotions and don't feel whole unless they can express them.


    major difference is that 9s can disconnect from their emotions while 4s cannot or will not.
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Hmm looks like i might be a 4 then. I also typed 9, but this was on a brief sample test.
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    4's aren't stupid. . .
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    I think the biggest indicator of the difference between 4 and 9 is the way they handle conflict. 9s tend to ignore and/or be unable to handle conflict or know what to do with it. They see conflict as something unnecessary and something to be stopped or avoided for the sake of it. 4s might handle conflict in a number of ways. 4s might shy away from conflict because of feelings of insecurity, or they might show their claws and may be seen as overreacting to conflict or even conflict initiators especially being that they are reactive.

    9s tend to be neutral in most aspects of life. 4s have strong and well defined feelings toward one side or another.

    9s are inert and calm. 4s are dramatic and sometimes self-centered.

    9s tend to be quite passive. 4s can be very stubborn.

    Both can be dreamy and imaginative, but usually in the case of 9w1 and not as much in 9w8. it's unlikely that a 9w8 would be confused as a 4 though because of how heavily inert they are even in the emotional sense.

    9s tend toward non-conflict even in cases of subtle hostility. 4s are heavily influenced by their emotions and don't feel whole unless they can express them.


    major difference is that 9s can disconnect from their emotions while 4s cannot or will not.
    Well, based on this I am definitely a four. I am always connected to my emotions. The hightlighted is me so that clearly points to 4. I guess I can look 9 in my behaviour at times since I am so calm normally and non-demonstrative I guess. But I don't shy away from conflict really and definitely not emotions.

    Mimosa, I read the instinct descriptions elctric sheep and agree with those definitions I have weak sp. I am quite hard on myself in many ways. Hm, maybe I am an so and that is what makes me look a 9 in some ways?
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    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    I am having a hell of a time determining which one I am.

    I think the biggest indicator of the difference between 4 and 9 is the way they handle conflict. 9s tend to ignore and/or be unable to handle conflict or know what to do with it. They see conflict as something unnecessary and something to be stopped or avoided for the sake of it. 4s might handle conflict in a number of ways. 4s might shy away from conflict because of feelings of insecurity, or they might show their claws and may be seen as overreacting to conflict or even conflict initiators especially being that they are reactive.
    I cannot stand conflict at all. I hate offending people and when I sense I have, I apologize again and again. Ever since I can remember, my mother said that I always asked her "Are you angry at me?" when I did something wrong and she was annoyed. I never wanted people to be angry at me, I wanted everyone to love me. Obviously I am much wiser and people will dislike you because of who you are and what you stand for.

    9s tend to be neutral in most aspects of life. 4s have strong and well defined feelings toward one side or another.
    I feel like I agree with both. I can be neutral to many things, but when it comes to my values, I am very serious and have well-defined feelings.

    9s are inert and calm. 4s are dramatic and sometimes self-centered.
    I am not calm when I am around my friends or family, but in person I attempt to be level-headed. I am clearly dramatic but I do it because I want people to laugh and lighten up. At times, I can be self-centered, but I try to give things for the sake of doing something nice.

    9s tend to be quite passive. 4s can be very stubborn.
    Once again, I am both passive and stubborn at different times. If I really believe something, I am stubborn, if what is happening is irrelevant, why argue?

    Both can be dreamy and imaginative, but usually in the case of 9w1 and not as much in 9w8. it's unlikely that a 9w8 would be confused as a 4 though because of how heavily inert they are even in the emotional sense.
    I used to be a huge romantic, but now that things have happened in my love life recently, I am much more level-headed. GIRLS ARGH

    9s tend toward non-conflict even in cases of subtle hostility. 4s are heavily influenced by their emotions and don't feel whole unless they can express them.
    I need to express how I feel, it's who I am, emotional. If it pisses off someone, fine, it's important to me.

    major difference is that 9s can disconnect from their emotions while 4s cannot or will not.
    I find that emotions sometimes get in the way of rational thought, so while I can feel strongly about a lot of things, I am able for a limited time to disconnect myself until I overload and yell at myself out loud.


    IDK
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

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    My description isn't the best. 9s can also be pretty stubborn and immovable, and 4s can be pretty passive.

    I think the best place to go is typewatch.net. There are some descriptions there as well as people who know their stuff.

    It's possible that you guys are 4with a 9fix or 9 with a 4fix in which case, I'm not clear on the difference. It might be that 4-9fix would try not to disturb the peace unless it meant compromising who they are and how they feel. 9-4fix tries to stay true to who they are unless it means imposing on others or being too pushy/invasive.
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    Omg, that so/sx 4 sounds exactly like me.
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamajama View Post
    Omg, that so/sx 4 sounds exactly like me.
    Perhaps because it has some overlap with so/sx 9?

    Quote Originally Posted by so/sx 9
    This subtype is "everyone’s friend." The social/sexual energy combines with the Nine's merging tendency and conflict avoidance to create a subtype that is very charming and uses humor quite extensively to engage with the people in their lives. On the down side, they can be frustrating because they can easily lose focus when it comes to their life priorities. With the self-pres instinct last in the stacking, they have a hard time tending to their own needs. They drift, and tend to use their charm to get a lot of their self-pres needs met by the people in their lives. When the Eight wing is dominant, they sometimes even develop a sense of entitlement, though they are just as likely to return help to those they charm into helping them.
    Heh, though, who knows. Maybe there is going to be a huge exodus from E9 to E4.

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    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    yo gul, stfu. I don't want to hear your convincing arguments.
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

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    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola's Avatar
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    I have read all of this and still maintain that 9w1 so/sx fits me best. Heh, and people here always assumed I was a 4w3. Fail.
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



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    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khola View Post
    I have read all of this and still maintain that 9w1 so/sx fits me best. Heh, and people here always assumed I was a 4w3. Fail.
    You said you were a 4w3!
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

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    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    She is def image isfp.

    no offense.

    I prefer image isfp's actually.

    no offense 9's.
    OPERATION POOPLAIR

    Now conscripting, for more information come here: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...48#post1003048

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wittmont View Post
    I have always seen myself as an E4, based on tests and descriptions and my view of myself, but lately in tests I have consistently scored E9 rather than E4 (in at least two different pretty thorough tests). So what gives, how do I know what type I am?
    One simple way to draw the line is the following

    Both are part of the "withdrawn" traid, so don't type based on being withdrawn or introverted, as you can't distinguish them by this alone.

    The E4 is part of the intensity triad and surrounds issues of trust, while the E9 is part of the positive outlook triad and surrounds issues of being positive. This is a reliable way of dividing the two, look up harmonic groups for more infomration on these two triads.

    The E4 is a feeling/heart triad member and surround issues of reconciling their shame of not being unique or special or having a purposeful identity. The E9 is a instinctual/gut triad member and surrounds issues of repressing their anger/rage in order to perserve an idealistic/positive outlook. This is also a reliable way of dividing the two.

    The similarity to the two types is not only the withdrawn characteristic but their idealistic outlook and tendancy to fanatize a lot about things.

    The difference is e4's are more melancholy, suseptible to feelings of self-pity and doubt as if they are missing something important in their lifes, this charges their romantic outlook and need for self-expression. e4's over identify with their internal emotions, and fantasy helps them intensify these emotions, perserve their moods, and evaluate what they value in life to search for that missing element.

    On the other hand e9's are POSITIVE outlook types, they are not melancholy, but disengaged. They are suseptible to feelings of detachment and tend to be detached from reality and move through life by motive of "inertia" which carries them from place to place. e9's do this because they don't want to be overwhelmed by their instinctual feelings of anger/rage... they want to be at peace and be calm and feel like everything is alright. They detach from reality both emotionally and physically to prevent their anger from consuming them. This is the key difference, e4's want to perserve those feelings, understand them, transform them... e9's want to repress them, avoid them, let them diffuse out of themselves. E9's fanatsize as a way to envision the positive and ideal, to help confirm their instinctual hunch that peace and tranquility can exist.

    Finally its possible to have both these types in your tritype and in that case if you identify with both of these, you have to evaluate which one of these motives is center stage in your identity.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    This is good, but imo it takes a lot of time to realize what it means, as people in general can't see how they differ from others, and such things just sound like words until you know more about the different types. Also health levels influence a lot, and people have bad memories. Do you have any idea how to make people recognize themselves in descriptions?
    Well... I agree. To be very direct, e4's are more melancholy, e9's are more positive.

    but that is a simplication that can be confusing.

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    Gul, don't go typing all the SEIs 9w1 just because you're one.

    Kam is BLATANTLY 4w3. Bee is less obvious, but I would lean 4w3 so/sx or sx/so.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    Well... I agree. To be very direct, e4's are more melancholy, e9's are more positive.
    I would say that's a bit of an oversimplification...I would say that a better distinction is that 4s actively engage their melancholy, tending to wallow and self-pity, with indulgence acting as a sort of consolation prize, whereas 9s tend to repress/divert melancholy and engage in more passive, instinctive escapism.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Shuttup.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    nines are emotionally inert while fours are emotionally volatile
    today is a gift, that's why its called the present

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    Creepy-male

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I would say that's a bit of an oversimplification...I would say that a better distinction is that 4s actively engage their melancholy, tending to wallow and self-pity, with indulgence acting as a sort of consolation prize, whereas 9s tend to repress/divert melancholy and engage in more passive, instinctive escapism.
    Lol thats the point of being direct and practical, I was purposefully avoiding delving into the details.

    But what you've written I do agree with, I was just trying to dumb all that down to something thats very blunt and immediate.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Based on what you told me yesterday, I have redecided. You are almost certainly an E9. I still think you are so/sx, and I'd say you have a tiny 1-wing.

    I'll suggest some places to look.

    Escaping into fantasy worlds
    Both E9s and E4s do this when they get unhealthy. Especially true for E4w5 and E9w1. Ask yourself if your fantasy worlds are inhabited by darkness and depression (E4) or by an idealized reality (E9).

    Depression
    When you have felt down, do you go more numb (E9) or more self-punishing and suicidal (E4)? E9s are seldom suicidal, E4 normally consider suicide ... often.

    Emotions
    E9s are typically calm on the outside, and optimistic on the inside. They might try to look inside, but when they do, it is harder for them to see the darker sides of themselves than for the E4 (who wallows in it) - E9s prefer to look for harmony, balance and wholeness also inside. E4s are almost the opposite, as they tend to overfocus on what is defect inside.

    The more stressed the two types are, the more different they will look. Stressed E4s become more and more unstable/emotionally turbulent, stressed E9s become more and more disengaged/emotionally inert.

    E9s typically repress anger
    E4s typically express

    Unhealthy E9s let people walk all over them. Unhealthy E4s use other people, and feel entitled to do so.

    Withdrawal
    Both withdraw, but for somewhat different reasons. A bit simplified - E9s typically fear that external world will demand more from them, and want to be invisible to avoid it. E4s typically fall into fantasies because they don't manage to be as awesome as in their fantasies....

    Fears
    Do you recognize any of these fears :
    - that you are ruining your life by wasting your opportunities (E4>E9)
    - that reality will force you to deal with your problems (E9>E4)
    - that you will end up alone, cut off from the world (E9>E4)
    - that you will end up finding yourself a hollow shell without meaning or feelings (E4>E9)

    Let me know what you think.
    I agree with all of this, its well written, and pretty comprehensive.

    The only thing I would add for the sake of elaboration is that e4's are not simply melancholy for the heck of it, they are likely to be more accepting of all their emotions including darker ones than other types (especially the positive outlook group) that just prefer to steer clear of them unless they are cornered.

    The idea for e4's is that when healthy they operate by transforming their negative emotions into something positive and when unhealthy they absorb themselves in them feeling vicitimized. Other types like I said prefer to steer clear of them unless they are cornered, for example a 5 seeks to dull themselves emotionally because they feel it gives them more willpower.

    On a large scale e4's fall by feeling victimized and hurt, they re-energize with fantasy, and they transform their negative side by doing something productive (likely creative in nature), then proceed foward until the cycle repeats.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post

    Wittmont has a lot of both 4 and 9. He's calm, kind and polite, and I've never seen him moody. He's peaceful and sociable. However, I doubt very much he represses feelings. I think his confusion stems from him having an so/sx-instinct. With so first, a really strong 5-wing and sp last he naturally is a calmer kind of 4, and instead of "fighting" his ideas through, he is diplomatic and peaceloving.

    Wittmont, did you check up on instincts?



    He definitely has E9 as his gut type and 5 as head type.
    Aye, my scores always have very strong 4 and 9, and then 5, relative to the other types. 1 and 8 tend to be especially low for some reason, is that strange if I am a nine?

    If I am a four I am definitely a 4 so/sx based on these descriptions, which I found very revealing. When it comes to four it is exactly the volitility and attachement to melancholy that I find I hard to relate to. I mean I am a romantic in many ways and I am focused probably too much on my feelings and emotions, but I do not go so readily into the negative aspects of them, nor do I EVER throw direct temper tantrums or blow up really - if I blow up it is for like 20 seconds and then people tend to laugh at me grrrr lol

    I think I am a mix between 4 and 9.

    My comments are bolded below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Wikipedia

    Fours

    Characteristic role: The Individualist[16]
    Ego fixation: Melancholy[17] <---A bit yes but not so much so that I identify with it
    Holy idea: Origin[18]
    Basic Fear: Being commonplace[25] <--- NOT a fear
    Basic Desire: To be unique and authentic[25]
    Temptation: To beat themselves up and withdraw <--- Happens once in a while
    Vice/Passion: Envy[21]
    Virtue: Equanimity[22] <--- This I identify the most with
    Stress/Disintegration point: Two (Disintegrating Fours become dissatisfied like unhealthy Twos) I have read the description of stressed fours on enneagram institut and don't really relate to them, I am starting to see that my inner mechanisms are not really fourish but have different triggers. Still I do recognize a bit of them in myself, but knowing other fours I see them much stronger in them.
    Security/Integration point: One (Self-actualized Fours are idealistic and progressive like healthy Ones) This one also always made me wonder what it was about, I don't see much of 1 in me.

    Nines

    Characteristic role: The Peacemaker[16]<--- Yeah I have a bit of that Peacemaker thing going
    Ego fixation: Indolence, self-forgetting[17]<--- Indolence yes, but I never forget my self I am a bit selfcentered tbh
    Holy idea: Love[18] I like this one.
    Basic Fear: Loss and separation; of annihilation[30] <---- ? dont recognize this fear at all...
    Basic Desire: To maintain inner stability and peace of mind[30] <--- VERY MUCH me.
    Temptation: To go along to get along[30]
    Vice/Passion: Indifference[21]<--- I see it as a defense mechanism that I withdraw into myself and then seem to be indifferent. Is this what I confuse with Equniamity?
    Virtue: Right action[22]
    Stress/Disintegration point: Six (Nines get more anxious, suspicious, and negative like unhealthy Sixes and may exhibit more aggressiveness)
    Security/Integration point: Three (Nines begin to work at developing themselves and their potential and move into greater action in the world, like healthier Threes)
    Hmm, if I feel I am held back from developing my talents I do get frustrated. I definitely see much more of this in me than 1.
    What I like the most about the 9 descriptions is the inner harmony and balance. When I want to be by myself this is very much what I strive for even if I can 'wallow' in E4 like emotionality at times certainly. But this darkness aspect described in E4s I relate to very little. I somehow always have a positive outlook. I have never ever considered suicide for example. When I get depressed I go more towards the 'numbness' described in 9 descriptions rather than suicidal despair.

    I am not volatile in conflicts, but neither do I shy out of them. I can weather a lot of shit, but I rarely hit out, it will take a lot of pushing of me for that to happen. I strive to keep my temper in check and use reason when I argue, I feel if I lose my head I will only give shit and start to hurt instead of making progress with what needs to be sorted out.

    Another thing I find is 9 over 4 is that I tend very much to be in a 'flow', I go where the flow takes me rather than assert myself somehow... and that is probably a VERY 9ish tendency.





    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Based on what you told me yesterday, I have redecided. You are almost certainly an E9. I still think you are so/sx, and I'd say you have a tiny 1-wing.

    I'll suggest some places to look.

    Escaping into fantasy worlds
    Both E9s and E4s do this when they get unhealthy. Especially true for E4w5 and E9w1. Ask yourself if your fantasy worlds are inhabited by darkness and depression (E4) or by an idealized reality (E9).
    Idealized reality for me, I am much more towards Tolkien'style in some aspects than a host of other authors that are more towards horror - never cared for horror or really angsty, depressive neurotic stuff either in literature or art


    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Depression
    When you have felt down, do you go more numb (E9) or more self-punishing and suicidal (E4)? E9s are seldom suicidal, E4 normally consider suicide ... often.
    I have never ever considered suicide, the very thought is extremely alien to me for myself. I could see myself reach such a point possible, but it would be a long and hard road indeed to take me to that point.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Emotions
    E9s are typically calm on the outside, and optimistic on the inside. They might try to look inside, but when they do, it is harder for them to see the darker sides of themselves than for the E4 (who wallows in it) - E9s prefer to look for harmony, balance and wholeness also inside. E4s are almost the opposite, as they tend to overfocus on what is defect inside.

    The more stressed the two types are, the more different they will look. Stressed E4s become more and more unstable/emotionally turbulent, stressed E9s become more and more disengaged/emotionally inert.

    E9s typically repress anger
    E4s typically express

    Unhealthy E9s let people walk all over them. Unhealthy E4s use other people, and feel entitled to do so.
    I am calm on the outside and optimistic on the inside. I identify strongly with attempting to find inner balance and harmony, but I am not afraid to look inside to find it. I guess I am more disengaged and emotionally inert than the volatile fours at least


    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post

    Withdrawal
    Both withdraw, but for somewhat different reasons. A bit simplified - E9s typically fear that external world will demand more from them, and want to be invisible to avoid it. E4s typically fall into fantasies because they don't manage to be as awesome as in their fantasies....
    Hmm, I have an invisiblity need rather than any illusion about my awesomeness heh


    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Fears
    Do you recognize any of these fears :
    - that you are ruining your life by wasting your opportunities (E4>E9)
    - that reality will force you to deal with your problems(E9>E4)
    - that you will end up alone, cut off from the world (E9>E4)
    - that you will end up finding yourself a hollow shell without meaning or feelings (E4>E9)

    Let me know what you think.
    hm not so much the first fear for me, more the second (annoying reality), not so much the third, and very much not the fourth.

    Hmm I think the tests have my preferrences pretty accurately it seems. When I read relationship descriptions between 4s and 9s it is VERY clear I fit the 9 side better than the 4 side. I tend to keep cool and to acknowledge the issues but I am slower in the temper swings than the 4s I know. I can withdraw for a bit if I get hurt, but I will come back to deal with what I have processed to heal the wounds, you could say to restore a balance, and move on with a deeper understanding with both.

    So, does all this make me a 9?
    Last edited by Wittmont; 02-02-2010 at 05:51 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wittmont View Post
    I see it as a defense mechanism that I withdraw into myself and then seem to be indifferent. Is this what I confuse with Equniamity?
    I think it easily could be. tbh I'm not sure where this idea of 4s virtue being "equanimity" comes from. Maybe the authors suppose that through sifting through their inner volatile worlds, 4s can eventually come to a more balanced state, with regard to both themselves and humanity. But 9 is the type most strongly bent on maintaining a holistic sense of connection with others and their inner worlds; the removal into indolent fantasizing is a last-resort means of preserving said thing. 4s withdraw to amplify their internally-cultivated feelings and self-image; it can sometimes be spawned by others, if they feel rejected and such, but is hardly ever driven by a desire to connect with people (at most, it's about having one person 'get' them).

    I somehow always have a positive outlook. I have never ever considered suicide for example. When I get depressed I go more towards the 'numbness' described in 9 descriptions rather than suicidal despair.
    hm, not to sound stereotypical, but the fact that you've never even considered it -- I wouldn't say it doesn't exactly point to 4 (especially 4w5 sx/sp???). 4s are just naturally attuned to their own despair, and even if not suicidal, will usually end up wallowing in some form of self-loathing desolation. Most 4s in this community feel a bit darker to me, melancholy usually escapes out of certain things they say.

    I am not volatile in conflicts, but neither do I shy out of them. I can weather a lot of shit, but I rarely hit out, it will take a lot of pushing of me for that to happen. I strive to keep my temper in check and use reason when I argue, I feel if I lose my head I will only give shit and start to hurt instead of making progress with what needs to be sorted out.
    Doesn't necessarily point to 9, but seems out of place for 4. Yes, they "weather a lot of shit," but it's mostly self-induced and partially resultant of the dramatized ideas they have about the world. 9s are types of attrition; they weather things out in an almost lukewarm manner, convinced that it will eventually work out, and that -- in unhealthier cases -- what's happening isn't "real."
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Yes, they "weather a lot of shit," but it's mostly self-induced and partially resultant of the dramatized ideas they have about the world. 9s are types of attrition; they weather things out in an almost lukewarm manner, convinced that it will eventually work out, and that -- in unhealthier cases -- what's happening isn't "real."
    that's a really good description of my SEI E-9 friend when it comes to dealing with conflict. First, deny. Then ignore. Act like "everything will be fine". Only when pushed further do they stand up to problems in their own silent way, rarely acknowledging the issue verbally to others.

    (ANNOYING)
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    that's a really good description of my SEI E-9 friend when it comes to dealing with conflict. First, deny. Then ignore. Act like "everything will be fine". Only when pushed further do they stand up to problems in their own silent way, rarely acknowledging the issue verbally to others.

    (ANNOYING)
    That is totally my SEI boss at at my previous workplace, she denied very real issues and conflicts for ages, then had a really aggressive shadow reaction against one employee (more or less breaking her mentally in the process). But she never acknowledged the issues people had under her and let these issues simmer for a couple of years. All this stressed people to distraction, no matter what they did she just deflected any attempts at dealing with things and sorting them out.

    Needless to say this approach was extremely stressful (and annoying) to everyone (including her, she almost quit her job at one point). It is definitely not my approach to dealing with conflicts to so extremely sweep any hint of problems under the rug.
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    +1 to Wittmont as 9.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    +1 to Wittmont as 9.
    Gilly, that's not nice!
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    I still feel I am half 4 half 9. SOMEONE SAVE ME.
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamajama View Post
    I still feel I am half 4 half 9. SOMEONE SAVE ME.
    I see your bastard 9/4 cross-breed and raise you my bastard 9/6 crossbreed.

    That post you made on Facebook about "If you stop loving you never loved to begin with" or whatever seems very E4. It's just invalidating anything outside some romantic ideal you hold for what "love" is.

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    I am a 4W5 my gf is a 9W1 I beleive. To me, i tend to intensisfy pain when I experience it to live the emotion to the fulllest whereas she tries to numb out her pain.
    Last edited by Typhon; 03-12-2010 at 09:50 AM.

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    Type 4 (486) on the Left,
    Type 9 (936) on the Right.



    P.S: In my view, the "Enneagram Dual" of the 486 tritype is 9 (as well as 2 and 7).
    Interesting to see this kind of duality play out in this video. The main character is a split personality at first, and one could say that at the end he is "dualized" completely, to the point he's got both halves in himself. In Socionics, no one can be their own Dual, but it is still an intriguing concept, one many people aspire towards.
    Last edited by Olimpia; 02-26-2017 at 07:21 PM.
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    Idk why ppl confuse 4s and 9s so much. We arent alike at all more than on most superficial demeanor. Our motivations and approaches to situations are completely different.
    9s value peace the most and peace have no real value to 4, they can even be peace destroyers.
    9s are only mad when their peace is affected.
    Last edited by Syrup; 03-28-2017 at 06:25 AM.


    9w8 5w6 2w1
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    4s are elitist about whatever it is that they're invested in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slugabed View Post
    Idk why ppl confuse 4s and 9s so much. We arent alike at all more than on most superficial demeanor. Our motivations and approaches to situations are completely different.
    9s value peace the most and peace have no real value to 4, they can even be peace destroyers.
    9s are only mad when their peace is affected.
    Yeah. I think there are just a ton of 4s with an 9 fix and vice versa on the Internet so everyone just ends up confused. Most enneagram information in the Internet is obfuscation in general.

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    4 revolve around their image and is more openly "me and my feelings/opinions"

    9 holds back their thoughts and feelings in effort to possibly connect with everyone, because they fear disconnection. if they put an opinion out there, someone might get turned off and not want to associate with them, and this is a fear of a 9. them constantly having to push down themselves build up anger inside, and they think they are not seen, and get more angry at others because, if theyre holding back, why arent others doing the same? -- a 9 actually said this

    in very general terms:
    9 being an attachment type: drawn to what others like, to connect and merge with others

    4 is drawn to what other dont like, to seperate themselves from others - be unique

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    4 revolve around their image and is more openly "me and my feelings/opinions"

    9 holds back their thoughts and feelings in effort to possibly connect with everyone, because they fear disconnection. if they put an opinion out there, someone might get turned off and not want to associate with them, and this is a fear of a 9. them constantly having to push down themselves build up anger inside, and they think they are not seen, and get more angry at others because, if theyre holding back, why arent others doing the same? -- a 9 actually said this
    Basically, 4s try to disconnect themselves from everyone, and 9s try to disconnect themselves from no one. In other words, 4 and 9 are basically opposites.

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