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Thread: Do you adjust to someone else's valued functions?

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    Default Do you adjust to someone else's valued functions?

    I went on a blind date last night with an ILE; it was interesting to say the least. At first, I wasn't sure of his type, initially I thought he was ILI, but after awhile it became apparent how he really was.
    He was very random, and it seemed like he needed to be entertained in some way that I wasn't sure of. He would talk about one thing, then jump to a completely different subject as if he was trying to tie them together. We had a few things in common, but not alot overall. It was obvious we had very different views on life; he made it apparent that he finds the world to be his playground so to speak and doesn't take it seriously. Where I take life way too seriously, (I guess this is the key difference between and ). I also noticed that their were many times that it seemed like he wasn't following what I was saying; that was frustrating.
    We first met at a restaurant, but after awhile he wanted to go somewhere else. I think he was getting restless and needed a change of scenery. So we went to a bar which was full of hicks and I wasn't to keen on being there. He just went with the flow, but it was obvious to me anyways that we stuck out from the crowd.
    I had fun, I will definetly see him again, but I noticed that I really couldn't be myself; which is why I started this thread. I always wondered why I became different around certain people, but now due to learning intertype relations I understand this phenomena.
    So, I guess my question is: have you guys noticed how you change due to someone else's valued functions? How has this affected your relationships with people from other quadras?
    EIE tritype 5w4, 4w5, 9w1


    As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere being.
    Carl Jung, "Memories, Dreams, Reflections", 1962

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    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morcheeba View Post
    So, I guess my question is: have you guys noticed how you change due to someone else's valued functions? How has this affected your relationships with people from other quadras?
    When hanging out with betas: I "focus" on Ti

    When hanging out with deltas: I "focus" on Ne
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morcheeba View Post
    So, I guess my question is: have you guys noticed how you change due to someone else's valued functions? How has this affected your relationships with people from other quadras?
    very interesting, Morcheeba!

    Yes, I've noticed how I change when I'm around other people. I have a very good friend who's SEI. We almost always talk about "light" things. Movies, books, music are high on the list. Not that we don't talk about significant themes--we do--just that we don't tend to get very intense or personal. It's mostly about enjoying life, sharing our lives and laughing together. He's great but I definitely feel myself hiding, or, not exactly hiding but putting on the back burner my deeper self, my search for greater meaning and significance in life when I'm with him. He's GREAT in smallish doses and I do feel in many ways that he's a kindred spirit but not a soul mate, if that makes sense (I hate that terminology but not sure what else to call it).

    That's the only example I have time for at the moment but maybe I'll come back and add some more later!
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    When hanging out with betas: I "focus" on Ti

    When hanging out with deltas: I "focus" on Ne
    yeah good way of stating it.

    when I'm with alphas, I do try to focus on Fe. Betas I can be myself. The other two quadras, I dunno what to do! I hang back and take the wait-and-see approach.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    I definitely become FeSi-ish around Alphas: I act foolish, I do random shit, make noises, spout nonsense, etc. Great for some cathartic, laid back fun. It's very easy for me to develop an Fe dynamic with ESEs and they are a lot of fun. SEIs usually seem cool, sometimes I am worried that they feel like I am fake but we usually don't have problems unless I feel like they are pestering me. They can be annoying sometimes. LIIs are generally cool; some of them feel like they need to be handled with kid gloves, and if I don't hold back a little they can get annoyed with me or seem a little closed off, but generally they are very easy to get along with, and tend to be one of the most attractive types to me. ILEs can be annoying, but the more grounded ones can be really cool.

    Around Betas I am pretty much just myself. They are the quadra that most easily notices if I am being fake, and a lot of them are willing to call me out on it, which is just what I need. SLEs are generally awesome, maniacally over the top, and usually seem like they just can't help but be themselves; sometimes they feel invasive or like a little bit too much but generally I like them a lot and they are easy to get along and have fun with. IEIs are the type that I am most naturally drawn to and I find it easiest to get along with; to me they usually seem like the "coolest" people, partly because we usually share a lot of tastes, but they seem more refined than me IEI women are the type that I most often find myself attracted to. My interactions with other EIEs varies a lot: sometimes there is a very direct competitiveness, always a mutually acknowledged "turf," and sometimes they feel fake to me but it's so easy to develop rapport that I almost don't worry about it unless they do pose a real "threat" to me. Sometimes we will get "on a roll" and just feed each other and shit gets rowdy and out of hand quickly LSIs go one of two ways: they can seem very open and receptive, natural and genuine, and generally respond well to my attempts to draw them out subtly or provoke little reactions while maintaining a consistent "assumed" dynamic, or they seem cold and totally impenetrable. Sometimes there is a stand-offish feeling with them, but it usually disintegrates as long as I act naturally.

    Around Gammas I can be a bit rowdy, and a little more contained; I generally don't go on a roll or directly garner a lot of attention with them, but as long as I don't pull my "fake it until you make it" act with them, I usually have no problems. My best friend is an SEE and I feel very at ease with him, very natural and myself, but sometimes he is a bit too much and I have to kind of put him in his place Most Gammas tend to see me as kind of manipulative, and they think that I go too far sometimes. I think a lot of ILIs feel that I'm invasive or...uh...gay but they usually seem alright to me, and I get along with some of them really well; some of them sort of just dismiss me. I tend to develop a somewhat natural rapport with LIEs, and a lot of the time we have obvious similarities; they tend to be one of the easier types for me to get along with or just have a discussion with, but some of them seem kind of creepy and abrasive sometimes. ESIs usually seem suspicious of me; I can have easy conversation with the more proper ones, and some are easy enough to get along with, but I think they tend to see me as manipulative or unappealing.

    Around my Delta parents I just kind of shut down. They feel extremely invasive and presumptuous; when I try to see things from their perspective, I can see where they're coming from, but they mostly feel invasive and a bit disingenuous. Also they tend to make me feel bad about myself. I feel inclined to break lots of expensive shit and fly into manic rages when I'm around them for more than a couple of days Some IEEs are really cool; one of my housemates is an IEE and she and I get along pretty well; conversation is easy, and it's fairly simple to smooth out conflicts, but she's a little too fragile and doesn't like to be teased or provoked, and I can tell that sometimes I make her feel uncomfortable. I know if I were really myself around her she would probably think I am cold and too rowdy or direct. SLIs just kind of seem like aliens to me; they tend to grate on me and feel kind of gross sometimes. Some of them (like DeAnte) just seem like unrefined faggots who act like jackoffs because they don't know how to get people to like them or deal with them naturally.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    With Deltas I seem to have to be willing to just slow down and go with the flow. I have to be willing to change activities a lot or just be content with doing something that seems a little mundane to me. Essentially there is not enough energy for me, or I guess the wrong kind. It is too scattered.

    With Betas I try to be more expressive and try not to take things personally or ideas as realistic. I try to involve myself in their philosophical discussions but it can be hard to get a word in between ESTps and ENFjs. I find Beta groups to be the hardest to get in to.

    With Alphas I try to be more expressive as well but I get overwhelmed pretty easy between the Fe and Ne craziness. A lot of their activities seem to be without point to me.

    With Gammas it is the right amount of everything. I can be expressive the rare times I feel like it but I don't have to be. I can just be myself. I can be sarcastic when I feel like it and can be sentimental when I want to share personal things or other people want to share (I find it very very difficult to do this with Alphas and Betas, especially if it is a group. It seems like there is a sole focus on fun in groups).There is more focus on things that I find fun and done in a way that I find fun.
    “No psychologist should pretend to understand what he does not understand... Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand nothing.” -Anton Chekhov

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    My mom is delta, but we are very close even though I have to "subdue" myself. But I think since I grew up with opposing quadra values, I generally don't have much issues with deltas. Except, when I tried to work at an insurance co., my trainer was sli, and it was obvious that there was tension between us. She got angry when I would read the wrong information to customers that would call about their policy. I would make all kinds of excuses like, "Well, the boxes are really small,I read the one on top, sorry." Her and another trainer would tell me to concentrate more, but I think that made me more anxious, so I would screw up for that reason too.
    And subtype makes a huge difference as well. I have a friend who is IEE; he is subtype and I think if he was subtype we probably wouldn't be friends.
    EIE tritype 5w4, 4w5, 9w1


    As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere being.
    Carl Jung, "Memories, Dreams, Reflections", 1962

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    oh man, greed's Avatar
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    Wow, I really like this question and I'd love to read some more responses.

    Overall, I end up mirroring other people to a great degree.. there's a huge unconscious aspect to it and a decent conscious aspect to it, too. There are limitations on this, naturally.. I can bend myself pretty far, but if I bend myself way too far, or at least too far for too long, it takes a toll on me. Unfortunately, since a lot of this is an unconscious reaction to the people around me, it can be hard for me to know just how I'm being bent.

    I feel at home with Alphas to a pretty good extent, but a lot of the playfulness gets old after a while even if I know them. If there's an Alpha group that clearly knows one another, and I'm the 'newbie', it's harder for me to break into the group and be completely comfortable.. almost as if I feel like I don't know enough about the individuals to become one of them. I can engage them one-on-one very readily, and I don't mind if our conversations are surface-level. My better interactions with Alphas are when we are in smaller groups or interacting one-on-one, or when we're all engaged in some activity. Once I've engaged enough individuals in the group, then I'm more apt to feel like a part of the group. I get along the best with ILEs, though, especially since I work in a field with a lot of technical overlap. On the other hand, LIIs (outside of this forum) make me want to stab myself.

    Betas. I mean, they're Betas. LSI's seem to keep a formal enough mentality that it's "okay" to just be formal with them.. which is also "okay" since I usually only deal with them in formal contexts such as business. Thus, I naturally end up maintaining the right psychological distance with them--which is "far away." In this sort of context, I find that I actually value the LSI's thoroughness and attention to detail in some endeavors, despite me also simultaneously mocking it.

    On Betas as a whole, they.. seem to value their control a little bit too much for my tastes. My LSI coworker has a tendency to want to "control" information, which sometimes makes it difficult for me to do my job until I sidestep his barriers or directly confront him. My EIE friend seemed to get off on having manipulative power over other people. And so on. When this tendency becomes overkill or somehow threatens my position, I get frustrated and defensive. (I also tend to defend others who are affected by this but don't care, so I'm doing them a disservice.) As I always do, I still aim for a diplomatic solution.. but in this context I usually find it impossible. It's only when I apply force or threats that they seem to be able to understand me in that way.. so, well, I just do that. And I hate it.

    I don't know too many Gammas, but they seem to be a mixed bag. I seem to appreciate Te/Ni egos much more than Se/Fi egos.. which I suppose is understandable. In short, I'm not sure how I act around them as a whole, but I find myself bending toward either Te or Fi depending on the individual; I've got good command of both functions. Still can't handle that Se, though.

    I let my guard down pretty readily with Deltas. I don't know many SLIs, and I don't know any EIIs. But my best friend is a fellow IEE, and we were able to trust each other pretty much immediately; similar with other IEEs. I find myself amusingly questioning a LSE's tendency to be planned and somewhat "by the book" but fully appreciating their input on matters I have little patience in, and a few have outright expressed appreciation for my ability to see "beyond" that and toward the bigger picture. With Deltas, I'm probably the most true to myself and perform very little unconscious or conscious bending of my own personality.


    So, yeah. These are probably the expected responses for each quadra, but it might help coming from the perspective of someone who's giving them.
    IEE-Ne | ENFP | 4w3-6w7-9w1 so/sp/sx | sCoA|I| | Sanguine/Choleric | Benevolent Inventor

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    I find that around deltas, I'm pretty comfortable, but unable to fully express myself. Around Betas, I'm a bit anxious, but can be more interactive when i reach a stage of familiarity. Alpha interaction is really uncomfortable and very superficial from my perspective.
    Last edited by Azeroffs; 01-15-2010 at 01:29 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morcheeba View Post
    He was very random, and it seemed like he needed to be entertained in some way that I wasn't sure of. He would talk about one thing, then jump to a completely different subject as if he was trying to tie them together.
    Weird, I encountered one just like that today while sitting with Gilly. Motherfucker came up and starting talking about how dragons were responsible for knocking a coffee cup off the table, then began disparately ranting about different music, never really making a point but demonstrating glimmers of general insight; then he talked about homos and how we were gay, and getting put in a psych ward for calling an arab guy 'dude.' All in all, it was lacking in cohesiveness and real effect. I've met a few SLE crackheads, and even though none of them are especially coherent, I can at least appreciate their direct impact style of interaction, because it makes for a much more fulfilling experience (lol).

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    Yeah, that guy was entertaining, but he kind of fucked with my mindset or something.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    That was weird. You did seem offset by him, which is not something I would expect. I think it's because he is the type of person who doesn't care about how people react to him, which would explain why you couldn't pin his motivations down. Being Fe-seeking is sort of counter-intuitive to this idea, but better explains why he was able to create such a glib affect with showing any real commitment.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Yeah...part of me kind of wanted to go along with his little glib rants or whatever because he seemed like good entertainment, but he was just SO random and wholeheartedly nonchalant that I had no idea how to respond to him at all. Every time I tried to get a grip on him he just flitted away.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    //framework readjustment...


    But yeah, this trait of his only became apparent to me when I detached from the situation. I actually appreciated the implicit assumption in his attitude: I don't care about you, but I happen to be interacting with you, so just be entertaining. If nothing else, it's a refreshing contrast to the majority of people.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    If nothing else, it's a refreshing contrast to the majority of people.
    Yeah, that's exactly why I wanted to engage him, but I just couldn't find an in or something.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Weird, I encountered one just like that today while sitting with Gilly. Motherfucker came up and starting talking about how dragons were responsible for knocking a coffee cup off the table, then began disparately ranting about different music, never really making a point but demonstrating glimmers of general insight; then he talked about homos and how we were gay, and getting put in a psych ward for calling an arab guy 'dude.' All in all, it was lacking in cohesiveness and real effect. I've met a few SLE crackheads, and even though none of them are especially coherent, I can at least appreciate their direct impact style of interaction, because it makes for a much more fulfilling experience (lol).
    Haha, that's great, from what I remember, Richmond is a breeding grounds for those encounters.
    EIE tritype 5w4, 4w5, 9w1


    As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere being.
    Carl Jung, "Memories, Dreams, Reflections", 1962

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    Indeed it is
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Around alphas I act cute, and fun, and listen to people's jokes and respond with my own. Whether or not I get along with alphas generally comes down to the degree to which we share a sense of humor. Always fun to hang out with, but even if they're intellectual or extremely intelligent without being intellectual, there's always a different "bent" to their thinking that doesn't jive with mine, which means we can only go so deep in theoretical mind-meld magic (of which life is composed), but we can grow in camaraderie, if that makes sense. Also, alpha lacks the propulsive energy of beta. LIIs tend to be very bright individuals, and I appreciate their degree of knowledge. It's also funny how they respond extremely well to Fe, and that part of it is nice, although some times they expect you to provide too much of it and it becomes annoying (I'm Fe subtype, so I think they subconsciously mistake me for Fe leading). ILEs tend to be pleasantly irreverent, which I greatly appreciate, and are also extremely bright, like LIIs. Sometimes the randomness gets out of hand, but it can be nice at times, and at least it's not boring. ESEs I tend to have less tight-knit relationships with, but ESEs are one of the best types, maybe the best non-beta type for having just as a random hang out friend, because they almost always have something entertaining to talk about.

    If my assumptions/typings are correct, it is around betas that I act most like myself, especially that it's betas around whom I feel most comfortable not being so nice and cute and etc. I feel comfortable being more cut-and-dry and letting more of the niceties of communication be assumed rather than explicit (i.e., subdued Fi), which feels extremely good. Also, betas tend to be on roughly the same wavelength as me, energy-wise and also intellectually; we tend to explore the same sorts of questions with the same sort of style, the same sort of logic. Also, beta quadra is home of SLEs, which are the best type because they cause me to do things, and doing things is infinitely superior to the non-activity which characterizes much of my free time (i.e., posting on this forum). I find that betas tend to be more relaxed about what one should or should not say, ethically speaking (I continue to think of this as an Fe > Fi thing, but it's also Se > Si, I think), but this could be a result of the people I gravitate towards being both beta and relaxed about what can and cannot be said. I tend to get along well with all the types in beta quadra; it just fits fairly naturally.

    Around gammas I generally feel rather inferior, but eventually we end up getting along. I find that I can integrate myself into a gamma group fairly well most of the time, and while after a while the energy will usually stagnate somewhat (due to lack of Fe), the conversation is usually at the least thought-provoking and often funny, which is nice. I make good friends with ILIs in general. SEEs are also cool, but surprisingly get offended about random stuff (I see their Se and expect them to be SLEs but they never are). It takes longer to establish our friendship, but some of my closest friends are gamma.

    Deltas can be very cool people. I think I get along best with IEEs, who tend to be random and funny and pleasant. I think EIIs can be irritating because they will often get their panties all in a bunch over nothing, but besides that they're okay. I mean, there are definitely things you have to admire about certain EIIs who accomplish a lot and really stick to their principles, which is admirable. It's just annoying when they have too many principles about too many things, to the point that it's unnecessary. LSEs are LSEs, they're whatever, although a few of the ones on this site are fine and occasionally say insightful things. Honestly, I can get along with an LSE for a little while, but after too long I will just avoid, avoid, avoid. SLIs are sort of passively okay, although somewhat of the same thing as EIIs; some can be very admirable. I dunno; I guess our values just don't line up.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

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    You know what, for the less patient types, can you people stop doing ILE EIE blah blah ABC. Just spell out the four letters. ENTP, ISTJ. OKAY? You waste peoples time by making them guess what the fuck each type is since they don't have it memorize. DO IT NOW!

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    Quote Originally Posted by betterthandead View Post
    You know what, for the less patient types, can you people stop doing ILE EIE blah blah ABC. Just spell out the four letters. ENTP, ISTJ. OKAY? You waste peoples time by making them guess what the fuck each type is since they don't have it memorize. DO IT NOW!
    Except there will be people who like the three-letter codes and can't stand the four-letter codes.

    Perhaps we could get some board feature that translates them? Let people set in their options "convert three-letter codes to four-letter codes" or "convert four-letter codes to three-letter codes" (this could easily be extended to use shape pairs, two-letter codes [might be precarious translating from these though] or common names [also not safe to translate from]).



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  21. #21
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    I'm not really sure what to make of this thread but I wanted to add my thoughts anyway. Naturally I was thinking about my perception of other quadras and was curious about how their perception was of Alpha. Perhaps there is an error in my understanding of the theory or I am seeing myself in a horribly inaccurate way but I just cannot relate to this at all. Even relatively I do not relate to it. I do not feel foolish or silly or that life is a playground or any of that stuff. For goodness sakes the most ridiculous thing I do is sing in my car, and even that can feel motivated more by a wish to keep myself "up" (it's unsuccessful) so I don't axe murder everyone, rather than the spontaneous urge to draw finger paintings in the sandbox of life.

    I mean I could see how perhaps a person could attempt to laugh off ideas to counteract the weight of unsolvable questions or debates or something. But personally I am not able to do that and instead brood. I don't sustain an intense, revelatory mindset 24/7 (because without short breaks my mind starts to go crazy) but it takes up a large chunk of my time. If some sort of explanation doesn't materialize the thought goes on the metaphorical shelf, but it's always there, its weight vaguely tangible. I can't get it off my mind from making a joke. Commenting on cloud animals gets old and bored if it becomes a purpose.

    When other people make jokes/detours I feel like a hedged animal who is not being understood, especially when they start mocking my seriousness. I do not appreciate someone purposefully distracting me from these thoughts to "lighten the mood". I would rather they conveyed some form of sense in a clear, sincere, direct way. It's not as if sense isn't often conveyed in riddles, jokes, and half truths, but overall I do not enjoy having to pick through those kind of emotional/verbal nuances as they tend to veil the speaker's intent and confuse me to some degree. I don't like feeling as if I'm being played with in a joking way. It feels like condescension and is very frustrating. What is wrong with being serious? Pompous people can often make me ill, but really, even they may have good insights and/or good intentions and discovery of their insight can be more rewarding because you didn't expect it.

    I don't like feeding people emotional cues like candy and if I catch myself doing mindlessly because my mind was elsewhere that I feel very disgusted with myself. I enjoy withholding those cues occasionally and watching people scrabble around in the discomfort of an uncertain interaction. Otherwise I'm stuck in some situation running myself ragged to accommodate the person when I really hate them. I can't seem to often strike a balance with this, but when I'm healthy I'm better at clearly defining relationships without sacrificing integrity/consideration.

    I don't come into contact with a terrible amount of people and don't have much confidence in typing them accurately, so I would often in the past tend to look to this board as something of a guide to how people are. But if Alpha quadra is really like how it's talked about here than I don't relate to it at all, and don't think I fit the description even in comparison to the rest. Actually I often feel quite opposed to it. So I'm hoping there is something I'm missing that would explain this.
    Last edited by female; 01-15-2010 at 10:44 AM.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morcheeba View Post
    So we went to a bar which was full of hicks and I wasn't to keen on being there. He just went with the flow, but it was obvious to me anyways that we stuck out from the crowd.
    Correct me if I am wrong but would this imply

    >

    or perhaps I could see it as poor

    of course I could be mistaken because perhaps he had a motivation I am not aware of.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by betterthandead View Post
    You know what, for the less patient types, can you people stop doing ILE EIE blah blah ABC. Just spell out the four letters. ENTP, ISTJ. OKAY? You waste peoples time by making them guess what the fuck each type is since they don't have it memorize. DO IT NOW!
    The four-letter type codes are indicative of MBTT/Kiersey types; the three-letter type codes are indicative of Socionics typings. It was Augusta's idea to use the three letter codes; personally I think it was an excellent choice, because it isolates the two obviously distinct theories.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    I'm not really sure what to make of this thread but I wanted to add my thoughts anyway. Naturally I was thinking about my perception of other quadras and was curious about how their perception was of Alpha. Perhaps there is an error in my understanding of the theory or I am seeing myself in a horribly inaccurate way but I just cannot relate to this at all. Even relatively I do not relate to it. I do not feel foolish or silly or that life is a playground or any of that stuff. For goodness sakes the most ridiculous thing I do is sing in my car, and even that can feel motivated more by a wish to keep myself "up" (it's unsuccessful) so I don't axe murder everyone, rather than the spontaneous urge to draw finger paintings in the sandbox of life.

    I mean I could see how perhaps a person could attempt to laugh off ideas to counteract the weight of unsolvable questions or debates or something. But personally I am not able to do that and instead brood. I don't sustain an intense, revelatory mindset 24/7 (because without short breaks my mind starts to go crazy) but it takes up a large chunk of my time. If some sort of explanation doesn't materialize the thought goes on the metaphorical shelf, but it's always there, its weight vaguely tangible. I can't get it off my mind from making a joke. Commenting on cloud animals gets old and bored if it becomes a purpose.

    When other people make jokes/detours I feel like a hedged animal who is not being understood, especially when they start mocking my seriousness. I do not appreciate someone purposefully distracting me from these thoughts to "lighten the mood". I would rather they conveyed some form of sense in a clear, sincere, direct way. It's not as if sense isn't often conveyed in riddles, jokes, and half truths, but overall I do not enjoy having to pick through those kind of emotional/verbal nuances as they tend to veil the speaker's intent and confuse me to some degree. I don't like feeling as if I'm being played with in a joking way. It feels like condescension and is very frustrating. What is wrong with being serious? Pompous people can often make me ill, but really, even they may have good insights and/or good intentions and discovery of their insight can be more rewarding because you didn't expect it.

    I don't like feeding people emotional cues like candy and if I catch myself doing mindlessly because my mind was elsewhere that I feel very disgusted with myself. I enjoy withholding those cues occasionally and watching people scrabble around in the discomfort of an uncertain interaction. Otherwise I'm stuck in some situation running myself ragged to accommodate the person when I really hate them. I can't seem to often strike a balance with this, but when I'm healthy I'm better at clearly defining relationships without sacrificing integrity/consideration.

    I don't come into contact with a terrible amount of people and don't have much confidence in typing them accurately, so I would often in the past tend to look to this board as something of a guide to how people are. But if Alpha quadra is really like how it's talked about here than I don't relate to it at all, and don't think I fit the description even in comparison to the rest. Actually I often feel quite opposed to it. So I'm hoping there is something I'm missing that would explain this.
    There's exceptions to every rule, darling. You're also an sx-first E4, which is probably not especially common among SEIs.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Creepy-Pied Piper

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    Last edited by Pied Piper; 01-15-2010 at 05:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    So this is the reason why you stopped answering my questions for some time. This one was very important for me and I was waiting for an answer: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tml#post595963. You didn't have the decency to say at least "I don't give a shit about your questions, it's not my interest". But fine for me from now on.
    Lol, sorry. I didn't see that. I'll respond in a moment.

    It's different when we're talking ideas. When it comes to discussing issues and such I don't have much a problem with anyone and actually find Alpha NTs very satisfying when it comes to that, but when conversation crosses into 'bullshitting' I find myself losing focus/interest. Also, internet conversation is different. I'm not forced into interaction so it's a lot more comfortable.
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    I'm not really sure what to make of this thread but I wanted to add my thoughts anyway. Naturally I was thinking about my perception of other quadras and was curious about how their perception was of Alpha. Perhaps there is an error in my understanding of the theory or I am seeing myself in a horribly inaccurate way but I just cannot relate to this at all. Even relatively I do not relate to it. I do not feel foolish or silly or that life is a playground or any of that stuff. For goodness sakes the most ridiculous thing I do is sing in my car, and even that can feel motivated more by a wish to keep myself "up" (it's unsuccessful) so I don't axe murder everyone, rather than the spontaneous urge to draw finger paintings in the sandbox of life.

    I mean I could see how perhaps a person could attempt to laugh off ideas to counteract the weight of unsolvable questions or debates or something. But personally I am not able to do that and instead brood. I don't sustain an intense, revelatory mindset 24/7 (because without short breaks my mind starts to go crazy) but it takes up a large chunk of my time. If some sort of explanation doesn't materialize the thought goes on the metaphorical shelf, but it's always there, its weight vaguely tangible. I can't get it off my mind from making a joke. Commenting on cloud animals gets old and bored if it becomes a purpose.

    When other people make jokes/detours I feel like a hedged animal who is not being understood, especially when they start mocking my seriousness. I do not appreciate someone purposefully distracting me from these thoughts to "lighten the mood". I would rather they conveyed some form of sense in a clear, sincere, direct way. It's not as if sense isn't often conveyed in riddles, jokes, and half truths, but overall I do not enjoy having to pick through those kind of emotional/verbal nuances as they tend to veil the speaker's intent and confuse me to some degree. I don't like feeling as if I'm being played with in a joking way. It feels like condescension and is very frustrating. What is wrong with being serious? Pompous people can often make me ill, but really, even they may have good insights and/or good intentions and discovery of their insight can be more rewarding because you didn't expect it.

    I don't like feeding people emotional cues like candy and if I catch myself doing mindlessly because my mind was elsewhere that I feel very disgusted with myself. I enjoy withholding those cues occasionally and watching people scrabble around in the discomfort of an uncertain interaction. Otherwise I'm stuck in some situation running myself ragged to accommodate the person when I really hate them. I can't seem to often strike a balance with this, but when I'm healthy I'm better at clearly defining relationships without sacrificing integrity/consideration.

    I don't come into contact with a terrible amount of people and don't have much confidence in typing them accurately, so I would often in the past tend to look to this board as something of a guide to how people are. But if Alpha quadra is really like how it's talked about here than I don't relate to it at all, and don't think I fit the description even in comparison to the rest. Actually I often feel quite opposed to it. So I'm hoping there is something I'm missing that would explain this.
    This is how most SEI I've met are like. I'm sorry you're not feeling very good.

    I think the whole idea of people being serious and not serious is incorrect. Alpha are quite serious, "children" serious and children are quite serious about what they care about, to a degree many people never attain again in adulthood. Life however requires one be serious about quite a few things you will not care about.

    If a ILE is talking to you about fluff topics or trying to be entertained, this probably means he's still got his guard up and isn't willing to go beyond that.

    One reason I like SEI's as they're often very conscientious people who also know how to have fun. They care for others without becoming controlling or suffocating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    This is how most SEI I've met are like. I'm sorry you're not feeling very good.

    I think the whole idea of people being serious and not serious is incorrect. Alpha are quite serious, "children" serious and children are quite serious about what they care about, to a degree many people never attain again in adulthood. Life however requires one be serious about quite a few things you will not care about.

    If a ILE is talking to you about fluff topics or trying to be entertained, this probably means he's still got his guard up and isn't willing to go beyond that.

    One reason I like SEI's as they're often very conscientious people who also know how to have fun. They care for others without becoming controlling or suffocating.
    I definitely agree with this. I was trying to think of something to add, but I think you've summed it up rather well.

    Perhaps I can qualify that the sentiment of "child-like" behaviour in alphas has more to do with enthusiasm than in straight-out goofiness. That and in NTs a certain sense of the novel. Even an ILE like Riddy, who can be exceptionally ridiculous at times, is often pretty serious.
    ILE
    7w8 so/sp

    Very busy with work. Only kind of around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    Ok, sorry then for misjudging you. I think I asked you more of these before and I though you didn't answer for unrelated reasons, because you used to answer before. Anyway as I said several times, you're one of the few who really understands what I mean, so I use to wait for your answers even if we may not agree in the end - no practical result .
    Was there something else I missed?
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    So I no longer talk to the ILE; I met a beta, we're getting coffee tonight. Not sure of his type yet, I think either IEI or EIE, yay.
    EIE tritype 5w4, 4w5, 9w1


    As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere being.
    Carl Jung, "Memories, Dreams, Reflections", 1962

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I think part of the reason you behave differently with different people, especially men, is in your unconscious rather than in your conscious, but that's another story.

    As for me, I think I tend to withdraw if I can't be myself, and I don't think I change my behavior too much. I guess it's easier to get the feedback you need from Betas. With other quadras it often feels heavier to pull a conversation.

    My husband is ILE, and when he goes off on a Ne-tangent, I sometimes concentrate to follow him, and what he says is often funny, but more often, I just shut my ears and let him talk, as it takes a lot of energy to try and understand him. He's funny, but irrelevant.
    Yeah that's how I felt with the ILE guy who me and Nick met: he wasn't very direct at all, it was even hard for me to tell who he was talking to, he never spoke clearly, and I just couldn't follow what he was saying at all, I couldn't get in a "groove" of the conversation; I tried to elaborate on a couple of the things he tried to talk about, but the fuckin crackhead just zoomed right on to something else as soon as I started to comment or engage him.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    but the fuckin crackhead just zoomed right on to something else as soon as I started to comment or engage him.
    lol.. ah.. ENTps..
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Yeah that's how I felt with the ILE guy who me and Nick met: he wasn't very direct at all, it was even hard for me to tell who he was talking to, he never spoke clearly, and I just couldn't follow what he was saying at all, I couldn't get in a "groove" of the conversation; I tried to elaborate on a couple of the things he tried to talk about, but the fuckin crackhead just zoomed right on to something else as soon as I started to comment or engage him.
    This is what I dislike about (certain)ENTps, I dont know if its an Ne-leading thing, but talking with some of them makes me feel like we aren't even on the same planet.
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Some days ago you were Ne-leading yourself....

    For the record - I don't find ILEs that weird. I mean, I married one. Most of the time they are easy to get along with and easy to understand.
    I get along great with SLE, we typically get each other very well and have good conversations. I don't see them a type I can have a romance with however unless there is intense sexual attraction. This is one of the types I can have female friends with easily.

    I have great conversations with all sort of people but one type I typically don't have good conversations with is EIE's, this is a issue with asymmetric relationships. A EIE will have a hard time getting a ILE to listen to them.

    I typically don't like listening to EIE's because they're so whiny, harsh on others and complain about every little thing in the world. I'm not sure if it gets better or worse but I can only handle so much negativity from others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Some days ago you were Ne-leading yourself....

    For the record - I don't find ILEs that weird. I mean, I married one. Most of the time they are easy to get along with and easy to understand.
    Are you still bitter towards me? Im sensing hostility. I guess I should start considering this foreplay
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

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    Quote Originally Posted by mn0good View Post
    I definitely agree with this. I was trying to think of something to add, but I think you've summed it up rather well.

    Perhaps I can qualify that the sentiment of "child-like" behaviour in alphas has more to do with enthusiasm than in straight-out goofiness. That and in NTs a certain sense of the novel. Even an ILE like Riddy, who can be exceptionally ridiculous at times, is often pretty serious.
    This is something I was thinking about alphas lately. Riddy is a good example, because I think his blithe zaniness is a direct expression of an underlying seriousness he harbors toward certain things. Alphas in general seem to use open-ended, somewhat lighthearted irony to convey interest and concern; it almost feels like an innocent resignation.

    Either way, it's absolutely retarded to suggest that one quadra is inherently more passionate about certain things or takes life more seriously or whatever. If it weren't for these stereotypes, I wouldn't have to suppress desires to kill every person who claims to be beta on such grounds.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
    Are you still bitter towards me? Im sensing hostility. I guess I should start considering this foreplay
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  40. #40
    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    As for me, I think I tend to withdraw if I can't be myself, and I don't think I change my behavior too much. I guess it's easier to get the feedback you need from Betas. With other quadras it often feels heavier to pull a conversation.
    Yes.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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