A Ti Thing?

[Crispy]

I recently witnessed a heated argument between my friend (I think he may be an ISTj) and his girlfriend where he jealously exclaimed "I know how guys think. The only reason your guy friends want to hang out with you is to get in your pants!" It was said in such a matter-of-fact way that I believe he sees no value in non-romantic female friends. What strikes me as weird is that I can see how he can think this way (and find it hard not to think that way myself) and am wondering if this has anything to do with "Logic of the Relations"

Am I completely off?

[ScarlettLux]

Lol yep and it's funny

[Joy]

An EIE once told me that girls have two ladders... the "friends" ladder and the "potential mate" ladder, and they see the people of the opposite sex at different places on those ladders. He claimed that guys only have one ladder...

Peter says that's complete nonsense though, that a girl can be a purely platonic friend.

[Gilly]

I have plenty of platonic friendships with women. Sounds like an idiot thing.

[ScarlettLux]

Joy that is ladder theory... The Ladder Theory

Pretty hilarious stuff and honestly imo, for the most part TRUE. Gilly I believe men and women can have platonic friendships to be sure, but these only occur under special circumstances ... either a) you are both in relationships (happy ones) or b) you really find the other person ugly.

Otherwise ... there's always that lingering spark of what if? Or sexual tension... all the male friends I used to have I know wanted to fuck me or would fuck me if given the chance, plain and simple. But that's cause they're guys and that's what guys minds are like. You can be friends and supress it and whatnot, but it's just there.

Would you rather be friends with an attractive or unattractive person if given the choice? Hmm...

[silverchris9]

Joy that is ladder theory... The Ladder Theory

That... is really ridiculous to me. But if people want to think of themselves as machines where money goes in and sex comes out (or goes in, as it were), or vice versa, fine by me.

[Joy]

Sally: So you're saying that a man can be friends with a woman he finds unattractive.
Harry: No, you pretty much want to nail them, too.

[Joy]

The best way to never score with a woman is to show too much interest in her.

Isn't this also true with men?

[FDG]

Sounds stupid, I definitely have female friends I don't think about having sex with. (This doesn't mean that if I was single and they wanted to, I would refuse - I wouldn't, but that's not the point) Of course I also have females friends that I find really attractive...but that wasn't the point either.

[Drommel]

Isn't this also true with men?

Right, because a hot girl asking to fuck a guy is going to get turned down. *pats joy on the head*

[ArchonAlarion]

Ladder theory is sad, but true.

[Joy]

The flaw in the ladder theory is that it assumes that all men with eventually break when clearly some men are much more breakable than others.

[FDG]

Right, because a hot girl asking to fuck a guy is going to get turned down. *pats joy on the head*

I don't think hot guys get turned down that much either, unless they are really excessively direct.

Ladder theory is fucking bullshit, I would have never have had a girlfriend there was any truth to it.

[Joy]

Right, because a hot girl asking to fuck a guy is going to get turned down. *pats joy on the head*

A hot girl who shows a guy too much attention may become increasingly less attractive to him though.

[717495]

ESIs and LSIs are both rather strict with their judgements, taking forever to see things another way. Ne-PoLR.

[Creepy-male]

Gilly I believe men and women can have platonic friendships to be sure, but these only occur under special circumstances ... either a) you are both in relationships (happy ones) or b) you really find the other person ugly.

c) it's an internet-based friendship

Otherwise ... there's always that lingering spark of what if? Or sexual tension... all the male friends I used to have I know wanted to fuck me or would fuck me if given the chance, plain and simple. But that's cause they're guys and that's what guys minds are like. You can be friends and supress it and whatnot, but it's just there.

All men think with their anatomy, sure; some think with their stomachs though.

[greed]

Is it really so hard to maintain a distance with someone you're attracted to? One of my best friends and I have an understood dynamic that we've kept for years now.

We're great friends, but we also look for deep, meaningful connections in our relationships above all else. Sometimes, you just know that you'd be incompatible in a full-fledged relationship but can maintain a friendship.

[Gilly]

Joy that is ladder theory... The Ladder Theory

Pretty hilarious stuff and honestly imo, for the most part TRUE. Gilly I believe men and women can have platonic friendships to be sure, but these only occur under special circumstances ... either a) you are both in relationships (happy ones) or b) you really find the other person ugly.

Otherwise ... there's always that lingering spark of what if? Or sexual tension... all the male friends I used to have I know wanted to fuck me or would fuck me if given the chance, plain and simple. But that's cause they're guys and that's what guys minds are like. You can be friends and supress it and whatnot, but it's just there.

Would you rather be friends with an attractive or unattractive person if given the choice? Hmm...

See, the thing that bugs me is that people claim that women never have any sexual tension with men they consider "just friends?" Horse shit. Sexual tension exists in basically any male-female relationship where potential attraction exists. Just because a guy wants to fuck you, doesn't mean he doesn't think of you as a friend. Are you saying you never think about fucking any of your guy friends? If so then they are probably all ugly. Bottom line is, if you have a friend who is hot, I don't care whether you're a guy or a girl: you're gonna think about fucking them.

[Khola aka Bee]

The last time I had sexual tension with a friend I found attractive it was over pretty quickly

Just sayin'

[Crispy]

Woman on the whole seem much less likely to go through with it.

[Joy]

Are you kidding? It's excruciatingly difficult if the attraction is mutual. It's my most helpless weakness. The wires from my brain totally sever themselves and stop working. Guess we all have our own unique Achilles' heels, little mushy spots, where people can reach through and flip you inside out.

I'm with you.

I have to keep working on that one.

Nah. It's only a problem if you're already with someone else. If you're not, then enjoy it for all it's worth.

[Gilly]

Maybe I'm just a massive anomaly. Most of my female friends have at least THOUGHT about fucking me, I know that and I have thought about fucking most of them, at least considered the possibility, but that doesn't make our relationships any less platonic. If there is major sexual tension there, then something will probably happen, but otherwise life basically goes on.

Most of you people sound like animals to me.

[greed]

Are you kidding? It's excruciatingly difficult if the attraction is mutual. It's my most helpless weakness. The wires from my brain totally sever themselves and stop working. Guess we all have our own unique Achilles' heels, little mushy spots, where people can reach through and flip you inside out. I have to keep working on that one.

Huh. I think I've suddenly discovered what a Super-ego relation is really about

Now we need a Se-Role to start a thread on how hard it is to become a self-starter so that you guys can talk about how effortless that is

[Satan]

A hot girl who shows a guy too much attention may become increasingly less attractive to him though.

True. But then she's not a hot girl. She's just a needy attentive bitch.

[Gilly]

Do guys really think about having sex with their ugly/plain looking female friends? Please tell me this isn't true.

Only the ones who meet my standards; otherwise, there is no sexual tension.

[Satan]

Do guys really think about having sex with their ugly/plain looking female friends? Please tell me this isn't true.

I think it's kind of like do you think about eating furniture. The hungrier you are the more and more things can look like food. But really it's because you're delusional and tripping on hypoglycemia. And objects are shifting into other objects.

Still - no one would really eat furniture unless they were psychotic. But different people have different standards of what's considered edible. And yeah, when you're real hungry canned food tastes a hell of a lot better than when you're not.

[Creepy-male]

I think it's kind of like do you think about eating furniture. The hungrier you are the more and more things can look like food. But really it's because you're delusional and tripping on hypoglycemia. And objects are shifting into other objects.

Still - no one would really eat furniture unless they were psychotic. But different people have different standards of what's considered edible. And yeah, when you're real hungry canned food tastes a hell of a lot better than when you're not.

All men think with their anatomy, sure; some think with their stomachs though.

I feel like what I said there was corrupted, somehow. Anyway, point proven.

[Satan]

I feel like what I said there was corrupted, somehow. Anyway, point proven.

You need to take more drugs.

[Creepy-male]

You need to take more drugs.

Cyproterone acetate, Nexium, amoxycillin.

[ScarlettLux]

I don't see how any of the dissenters towards Ladder Theory have said anything actually that goes against or disproves it ... um... wha???

Of course females have sexual tension with their male friends... when was it suggested that this doesn't happen? In the theory? Really? I thought it did... eh. And of course you can think of someone as a friend while still wanting to fuck them... Also, some people CAN control themselves better than others -- but again, the tension still exists and everyone has a breaking point.

Well, my own personal theory states that platonic friendships between two single people can NOT exist. One will always want the other in a more than platonic way. The other person may or may not have to reciprocate though.

[somavision]

I found the ladder theory article a little cynical and somewhat bitter however I thought there was some truth in it, but also a lot of bitter bullshit about women banging bikers.

I also feel it could be further elaborated.

You could have a current ladder and future ladder.

Jane is in a relationship with John, a steady, reliable and attractive middle manager. However she is close friends with James a devilishly handsome actor building a career in a competetive but potentially lucrative business.

She stays frineds with James as she see's that he could potentially be a better partner than John, however until she has further evidnece of this, she won't risk leaving James.

So James is a the top of the potential ladder whilst John is currently on top of the current ladder.

Meanwhile James being a devillishly handsome actor is engaging in many casual to not so casual relationships, whilst he strengthens his career to a point where his place is guarantedd at the top of Janes ladder.

James and Jane being good friends, often meet up and talk, they gauge and test the strength of each others current relations, their opinions towards them and their feelings for each other.

[Joy]

I think I usually have men somewhere on both ladders?

[greed]

I think I usually have men somewhere on both ladders?

This is the problem I see with it--that this "shouldn't" happen. In my humble experience, relationships are much more fluid and less clear-cut and absolute than ladder theory lets on.

[Joy]

Don't get me wrong... I don't know where they on those ladders.

[greed]

Uhh... no. Don't know what girls you talk to.

Consider the possibility that some think along the lines of ladder theory and others don't. Read the post three above yours and several other examples in this thread for evidence that that might just be an option.

[FDG]

Consider the possibility that some think along the lines of ladder theory and others don't. Read the post three above yours and several other examples in this thread for evidence that that might just be an option.

+1 most definitely.

I also know way too many attractive girls that have absolutely "normal", even a little bit "ugly" boyfriends that actually treat them well. There are just too many of these cases to think that there's any truth to a theory that would actually place 95 percent of the male population as no-reproduction-worthy genetic material.

[Gilly]

All I'm going to say is this: I know for a fact that females who I have been firmly established "just friends" with have considered me sexually, on varying levels. If women have these two distinct "ladders," then they can at least cross over.

[Nexus]

I recently witnessed a heated argument between my friend (I think he may be an ISTj) and his girlfriend where he jealously exclaimed "I know how guys think. The only reason your guy friends want to hang out with you is to get in your pants!" It was said in such a matter-of-fact way that I believe he sees no value in non-romantic female friends. What strikes me as weird is that I can see how he can think this way (and find it hard not to think that way myself) and am wondering if this has anything to do with "Logic of the Relations"

Am I completely off?

LSI is a tactical emotivist, that is probably the best reason of which I can think

anyway, self-righteously claiming to understand how guys think without knowing what a guy thinks is pretty obstinate / subjective / Ne PoLR

[energystar]

...

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request