ThePirate: EIE?

[thePirate]

okay so Im open to hearing your opinions, everyone whose typed me as EIE please tell me why, I'll answer pretty much anything asked of me as honestly as I can. I think this is preposterous because, for one, theres no way in hell I can be rational. I have virtually no structure in my life, prone to procrastination and laziness. please take note that my tirades over the past few months was a persona I put on, had fun with, found amusing etc but isn't neccessarily a representation of who I really am or how I really feel(as it was heavily exaggerated). if your typing based off that, I advise you to reconsider.

it has occurred to me that there is evidence pointing to EIE, the wikisocion profile does fit(but so does the IEE). I will now write my opinion of the elements as I see and feel them when used by others:

Ne: I think using this too much makes you look like an idiot(ala gul).

Ni: mixed emotions about this one. I find this cool, kind of mystical, but sometimes wonder if the person is bullshitting me. other times it can be really fucking annoying. I also logically know that things can turn out different then expected and verbally fight against it, but internally I do act like and feel that certain things, particularly the negative, will repeat if I get into that same situation again.

Se: excessive force is unneccessary, I dont really believe in making people do something they dont want to do. however the confidence people who have this element have can be pretty damn attractive.

Si: I like Si, alot. it feels really nice, makes me happy. I also find people who have it in their ego to have this 'coolness' about them in one way or another.

Te: I would like more of it in my life but not forced on me. knowing things that make me more productive does give me a good feeling, although many times I dont carry it out. interesting facts are always fun to know.

Ti: I find the manipulation of this element fascinating, but dont particularly enjoy discussing things in a Ti manner. Too logical and impersonal for me, although it might be neccessary sometimes, but I would rather not discuss it for long.

Fe: around Fe types it really feels like I need to hide myself or put on a face. I dont feel like they care about my problems(and therefore, me as a person). I understand how they operate; they would rather have fun and have positive emotions go around then discuss problems at length but this feels very superficial and unfulfilling to me. consequently, I feel 'used' as if the person wants the good emotions I give them but doesnt want to know me as a person.

Fi: around Fi types I feel like they care about my problems, I feel like they have an interest in ME and not just one side that I give them. I dont particularly like the self righteousness if it comes with hypocrisy, although I will chime in and say I am guilty of such thing myself. Fi types seem more 'real' as people to me.

I have close friends from every quadra and get along fine with all of them, although I do feel pulled in different directions as to what each one wants and often it ends up not being what I want.

[Morcheeba]

Stop buying into stereotypes; just because an EIE is "rational" doesn't mean they have structure. What rational means in these terms refers to a psychic function that notices dynamic processes that are constantly changing, that's all. I don't have alot of structure in my life. Structure, imo, is more related to .

Why don't you post some pics?

[thePirate]

Stop buying into stereotypes; just because an EIE is "rational" doesn't mean they have structure. What rational means in these terms refers to a psychic function that notices dynamic processes that are constantly changing, that's all. I don't have alot of structure in my life. Structure, imo, is more related to .

Why don't you post some pics?

yeah, thats what I was telling someone else actually which is why I posted this thread. I dont know if I notice that, I notice the term being thrown around but dont know what that means exactly as opposed to noticing static proccesses, what would be an example of that?

I would prefer not to post pics at this time, if it really has to come down to it I will, but I doubt this will be the case. plus I dont like relying on V.I., theres rarely a consensus based off it anyway.

[Morcheeba]

I have a hard time describing the difference as well. I guess, for example, with you would notice the strength of an object and what kind of force you could apply to it. But, that object does not change in that sort of context. But, with , moods, voice intonations, those kinds of vibes are constantly in flux, so they are changing rapidly so that is why it is rational because it is something that is readily observed. Not sure if that helps, it's so hard to explain.

[jessica129]

I never saw you as IEE, Im sorry. You come off as very Beta.

[thePirate]

thanks morcheeba, I kind of have an idea of what you are talking about

I never saw you as IEE, Im sorry. You come off as very Beta.

ok I wasn't taking this thread that seriously until now. whoaly fuck. can you explain this a little?

[jessica129]

I'm Ina really bad mood and don't want to explain myself but you remind me a lot of gilly.

[somavision]

Either one could make sense. I thought you were almost certainly EIE before you got banned. Actually I just thought you were a bit of a dick,which I don't believe is type related.

Since you've dome back and you did your thread about Gilly's tyranny you seem more relaxed and a lot less annoying.

I'd still pencil you down as EIE, your posts seem quite obviosuly emotive on the whole, I wouldn't say that's conclusive though, I've had periods where I've been stressed or not entirely happy, where my behaviour has been very similar.

I'd say it really depends on how authentic you are being with your interactions.

I believe Pinnochio has you typed as IEE so that is quite a strong indicator for you being EIE.

[717495]

I believe Pinnochio has you typed as IEE so that is quite a strong indicator for you being EIE.

Yeah, I follow the same system.

[Creepy-male]

I believe Pinnochio has you typed as IEE so that is quite a strong indicator for you being EIE.

Doesn't that make me SEE? Shit. I just got settled with being Isha's Activator, now I have to be her Conflictor.

[The Greeter]

I don't know thePirate very well, but I admit to liking this individual slightly.



What makes you think you are Delta, thePirate?

[Creepy-male]

Excessive force is just that and is a careless and artless use of the information element, if you ask me.

Yes, and is probably Se Role in action.

[munenori2]

So, you're saying that excessive force is something prevalent amongst ENxp's? Or at least, when they "exercise Se" it's excessive?

I put that in air quotes because it sounds ridiculously simplistic the way you've put it to me. It fills me with immense ennui, your facile flailing attempts at piecing together a foundation from whence anything other than a puerile understanding of socionics theory might even begin to be built. Rationales beside rationales tinkling across your gaze like an illusory beaded curtain, ever catching your attention and obstructing your focus from what lies beyond. Their sight and sound is like a glamour to you. Explanations swirl about, tugging always with that gentle alluring promise of why. Why you are you. Why things go wrong. But these hopeful patterns collide, evanescing in that ephemeral way that only a hint of a promise can. It erodes into something far more meaningless, lifeless, and droll. Yet you're left with a memory of the white spark firing across a black background in spite of the cold gray world that envelops you like a foggy shroud. It makes you compulsive, clinging to this or that reason like a security blanket to assuage the vague, impenetrable and insensible echoes of what a more stern, more fearless survey might uncover.

Hahahaha, no I'm kidding. The first two sentences were for real though. I like to type a lot of random shit when I've had a few beers.

[Creepy-male]

It's an idea that keeps cropping up in socionics texts. And in general, your Role can be a bit artless and crude, from what I understand?

Anyway, hall of fame'd. Mad propz.

[munenori2]

It's an idea that keeps cropping up in socionics texts. And in general, your Role can be a bit artless and crude, from what I understand?

I guess it makes some sense, but as a role function in contradistinction to the more natural matter of fact leading one I would think it wouldn't be an area you would press for too often. Artlessness and crudity are probably roughly accurate descriptors of weak functions in general, right? thePirate is kind of artless and crude about it, but I can also see how it might also be something he would enjoy seeing done right. Pretty much on the same page with Aixelsyd right now.

Aixelsyd

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I don't know much about you, but your rants have never really pissed me off, they've more amused me more than anything.

You say what you think and it's refreshing.

I don't really object to ENFp, I think you seem a bit less polished than some other ENFp's here, but who knows maybe they are different people and maybe they are here for different reasons.

Do you argue with people a lot IRL? I tend to find that ENFp's are better at smoothing things over in terms of getting on with people than ISTp's, but I suppose EIE's do that for ISTj's too.

What sort of upbringing did you have? Maybe it was a down to earth upbringing were you call a spade a spade, that sort of thing.

Unfortunately i've got nothing really of value from an "analysis" POV, so i'm not even sure how useful this post is, maybe something will come to me later, i'll try and have a think. Maybe you are EIE, dunno yet. Have you looked at ESFp as well?

[Cheesy]

It's good that you opened yourself up to other options. I currently think SEE but EIE is not out of the question. You're definitely Se/Ni. Your interaction with jewels was indicative of you being in opposing quadras. Now that I think of it, EIE is an interesting option. What do you think of LSIs?

[Gilly]

I'm Ina really bad mood and don't want to explain myself but you remind me a lot of gilly.

Male drama queenz 4 lyfe.

[thePirate]

I think you misunderstand Se. It's not about making people do things and how this connotation came about and has been parroted to be a sort of meme in the socionics community remains a baffling matter.

I personally think, as to how you come off, that you value Se. Vigorously standing up for yourself or others and being active and doing things, as well as taking matters into your own hands are all characteristic of Se. This includes being willing to confront and face challenges (and vigorously so). Your confrontation of Gilly, crazedrat, and so on were all examples of Se in how you came off and how you handled it. Being direct, even blunt, even 'edgy' is part of Se's manifestation. Taking charge, standing up, speaking out, etc, are means of actualizing the human will in an outwardly detectable form that is immediate and apparent, being more correct forms of using Se (which is correctly associated with will). Excessive force is just that and is a careless and artless use of the information element, if you ask me.

Just to clarify.

I think you are either EIE or SEE from what little I have seen.

thank you, this makes sense.

I'm not like this in real life, I'm conflict avoidant.I will say and do things not to get into arguements with people, the only times I even get angry is when people talk shit about people I care about. People really have to push me to get me angry then I explode. the one exception is at home, certain family members annoy me pretty easily, so I do tend to snap on them.


happy birthday btw.

I don't know much about you, but your rants have never really pissed me off, they've more amused me more than anything.

You say what you think and it's refreshing.

I don't really object to ENFp, I think you seem a bit less polished than some other ENFp's here, but who knows maybe they are different people and maybe they are here for different reasons.

Do you argue with people a lot IRL? I tend to find that ENFp's are better at smoothing things over in terms of getting on with people than ISTp's, but I suppose EIE's do that for ISTj's too.

What sort of upbringing did you have? Maybe it was a down to earth upbringing were you call a spade a spade, that sort of thing.

Unfortunately i've got nothing really of value from an "analysis" POV, so i'm not even sure how useful this post is, maybe something will come to me later, i'll try and have a think. Maybe you are EIE, dunno yet. Have you looked at ESFp as well?

thanks man.

The only people I really argue with are my family, and with them, yes a decent amount. As far as my upbringing I learned that violence was wrong, to sacrifice my needs for others, parents used alot of guilt trips on me. If anything I learned to wiggle my way around things that weren't going my way. Outside of my family, I try to not get in conflicts with people, if I know people are a certain way (mainly Se ego types) I wont put my views out there too forcefully and handle the topic much more nonchalantly and agreeable-y to say a caregiver who I perceive will actually want to discuss things and wont eventually try and steamroll me.

as far as SEE goes, I cant be that. theres no way in hell Im a sensor, I think way too much, am too clumsy and oblivious to my surroundings to be that. LOL.

It's good that you opened yourself up to other options. I currently think SEE but EIE is not out of the question. You're definitely Se/Ni. Your interaction with jewels was indicative of you being in opposing quadras. Now that I think of it, EIE is an interesting option. What do you think of LSIs?

lol thanks.

are you sure about this? it cant just be that I think shes stupid sometimes? o.o


I havent been around them that munch, I used to have a close friend who I think was one(we had a falling out). I will say that they do seem pretty douchey upon first meeting. the passive aggression is really bothersome. makes me want to tell them to chill the fuck out. their also really anal about things, and are reallly just mean for no good reason. its not like pseudo-SLI meanness either, its really a straight up 'fuck you' almost. as far as duality goes I will say that I notice them more as opposed to SLI's. tbqh I dont think I would like to be with them, as far as forum people go I like any and every SLI more then Huitz, his posts repel me. excessively logical and judgemental, its like venom for me. I much prefer the SLI live your life attitude

[Cheesy]

lol thanks.

are you sure about this? it cant just be that I think shes stupid sometimes? o.o


I havent been around them that munch, I used to have a close friend who I think was one(we had a falling out). I will say that they do seem pretty douchey upon first meeting. the passive aggression is really bothersome. makes me want to tell them to chill the fuck out. their also really anal about things, and are reallly just mean for no good reason. its not like pseudo-SLI meanness either, its really a straight up 'fuck you' almost. as far as duality goes I will say that I notice them more as opposed to SLI's. tbqh I dont think I would like to be with them, as far as forum people go I like any and every SLI more then Huitz, his posts repel me. excessively logical and judgemental, its like venom for me. I much prefer the SLI live your life attitude

Well, I've watched how you recently stirred things up in Delta, which is pretty uncommon. It's a place of serenity and agreement and not crazy ass shenanigans. But I was indeed intrigued by this stir you've managed to create no matter how offensive and crazy it was. Which leads me to one place, Beta. Beta NF to be more precise. Meet some LSIs SLEs, tell us how it goes, maybe you'll discover amazing wonderful people, who knows. And you can always fall back to SEE which is known to be the hottest type of all. BTW LSIs are extremely common, unfortunately I get to meet one pretty much every day so just go by the all time favorite douchebag stare and a small yet suspicious looking moustache and you've got one(fine, that's just a stereotype but who cares! OMG I'm turning EIE again!!!).

[thePirate]

dont tell me after ALL the people typing me EIE here or something no one else is speaking up, gilly, gul, juju, etc Im looking at you. am I EIE or what? explanations?

[Park]

I don't know thePirate very well, but I admit to liking this individual slightly.

Same. And I'm sorry I can't provide much else to this thread.

[strrrng]

dont tell me after ALL the people typing me EIE here or something no one else is speaking up, gilly, gul, juju, etc Im looking at you. am I EIE or what? explanations?

You're self-illustrative.

[thePirate]

You're self-illustrative.

that really doesnt help me at all, I think its stupid for anyone to take a persons forum identity and provide that as a basis for their type. do you have any real evidence that falls under 'self-illustrative' or just felt like being a douche for no reason as usual?

[strrrng]

I couldn't care less about someone's "forum identity." Type is independent of that, and your behavior belies your self-typing, thus self-illustrative.

[Creepy-male]

I have you on ignore (I can still see your posts when other people quote them), thePirate, but if you really want to know what I think about your typing, my honest opinion is that I don't have one.

So yeah, don't bother replying to this, I won't read it.

[thePirate]

I couldn't care less about someone's "forum identity." Type is independent of that, and your behavior belies your self-typing, thus self-illustrative.

thats what I was talking about, my behavior on the forum has fluctuated pretty widely, and Im almost certain you havent taken my earlier postings into account(when I first got here). it isnt enough evidence to prove Im another type or even ENFJ, would you describe certain aspects and dissect them? that is what Im am interested in, or take some of the info I have put out about myself and analyze it because Im not seeing what some of you do.

[strrrng]

Gul, your passive leeching is infinitely more grating than thepirate's pugnacity. Why can't you just stay out of threads for which you can offer nothing?

[Morcheeba]

I think the best way to figure out your IM is to take a look at a scenario. For instance, say you walk into a room full of people, what's the first thing you notice or pick up on: the dynamics involved, i.e. the emotional atmosphere, people's expressions, how you can influence them. Or, do you look at the possiblities, who would respond well to you, who wouldn't, what could materialize with such people, that sort of thing.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

thanks man.

The only people I really argue with are my family, and with them, yes a decent amount. As far as my upbringing I learned that violence was wrong, to sacrifice my needs for others, parents used alot of guilt trips on me. If anything I learned to wiggle my way around things that weren't going my way. Outside of my family, I try to not get in conflicts with people, if I know people are a certain way (mainly Se ego types) I wont put my views out there too forcefully and handle the topic much more nonchalantly and agreeable-y to say a caregiver who I perceive will actually want to discuss things and wont eventually try and steamroll me.

as far as SEE goes, I cant be that. theres no way in hell Im a sensor, I think way too much, am too clumsy and oblivious to my surroundings to be that. LOL.

I don't see why IEE's couldn't argue, especially with family.

I think I remember Rick saying he got into a lot of arguments with people at the Gulenko school so it's not like they can't ever argue.

I find that IEE's don't fall out with too many people in their real life. Apparently this has something to do with their Ne seeing possibilities in people so they don't want to burn their bridges because the possibility that they need their good will in the future is always there for them.

When you have said what you think on threads, it doesn't to me have the same sort of manner as for instance Morcheeba, who types as EIE, it just seems you have different approaches with makes me think you are not a judging type but a perceiving type, and probably Fi creative.

I don't know if you are IEE or SEE, but I'd be suprised if you really were an EIE. Maybe there's other things I don't see yet and someone else can elaborate.

I can't say for sure if being oblivious to our surroundings is N or S. I think there's more to it and of course we can't contrast it to someone else since we live only in our own bodies. As an example (if i'm typing correctly, which I think I am), I know an ESI who is forever burning herself in the kitchen, clumsy, banging into things. Sometimes this can just be thinking about other things or some sort of inner ear inbalance if someone falls a lot. I think that N types are unaware of their environment in a different way than walking into things, it is like a more detached mode.

[Reuben]

Unless my understanding of delta is wrong, I am inclined to agree with Cheesy in that you are definitely not from that quadra.

In all honesty, SEE doesn't ring quite right either. Edit: Sorry for just dropping an opinion. I think SEE doesn't ring right, because to be frank, SEE's come across as highly superficial. They won't bother about what type they are for excessively long periods (most either know right away, or at least until they get a relatively firm grasp of socionics). Most won't even come to this forum in the first place. While there may be deviations between SEEs (attributed to culture and intelligence and all sorts of other minute factors that probably do not affect an SEE's image by more than 10% or even safely 5% of the stated stereotype), I intuitively feel that your behavioural deviation is too great, even if its just your online persona (which is probably just a more uninhabited version of you, i.e. Ego, or true socionics type, unless you're highly deranged and mentally unbalanced which I doubt you are).

This is why I believe you might be EIE:

You flare up easily (especially when people are attacking your/your friend's cause).
You aren't hated by everyone, even though sometimes you deserve to be.
You are rough with your words.

The first and the last reason point towards Se valuing, as opposed to Si valuing.
When you talk to Si valuing people, it becomes rather obvious that most of the time they value harmony, even when they are pissed at someone. For delta, they won't say anything bad about people in a rough way. For alpha, they will make fun of the person, but not maliciously (or in a manner that can be interpreted maliciously).

The second reason seems to point towards Fe. It seems that despite all the peevish, petulant posts that you are often inclined to put forth, most people do not hate you. That is probably because, as you said, you don't really blow up in real life. This, if I interpret correctly, means that you are capable of controlling and expressing your emotional outbursts. In other words, you are confident of expressing emotions that do not ring well with the current group's emotions. This points towards Fe-ego. Usually, I credit the ability to make prissy remarks (and similar ethical disparities) and get away with it to Fe-ego.

Also, NiFe's are too laid back to bother shouting at peeps. Even online (unless they're drunk or deeply in love). So I guess FeNi sounds good, to me at least.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Unless my understanding of delta is wrong, I am inclined to agree with Cheesy in that you are definitely not from that quadra.

I think it depends what's being argued. Way I see it (which could be wrong) is that thePirate explains his reasons why he's complaining/being judgemental. EIE's in my experience are just judgemental in the sense that they state their opinions on something, like for instance whether someone is doing something wrong or not, but they just state it and don't explain it.

I suppose the difference is that Fe deals with objective ethics, what's actually happening in terms of the ethical "facts", whereas Fi being subjective looks to have more personal reasons for it.

And I think thePirate states his explanations from a personal perspective rather than the common ethical objectivity.

In all honesty, SEE doesn't ring quite right either. Edit: Sorry for just dropping an opinion. I think SEE doesn't ring right, because to be frank, SEE's come across as highly superficial.

I think this depends on the person. I can see why they would appear superficial in the sense that a lot of them like to go out partying and stuff, but the other side is that they like to create an aura of complexness ime which ties into in a way their Se and establishing themself as being liked to be seen - or think of themself as complex, rather than for instance a delta ST who's more likely to call themself "simple" in terms of being honest hard workers - they like to show that what you see is what you get, in their eyes.

Although you could be right about him being EIE, I can't see it, I suppose i'm seeing different things from you at this point.

[Reuben]

I see. Thanks cyclops I get what you mean.

For now I agree with you. He could very well be SEE/IEE.

However, I am more inclined to think gamma than delta.

This opinion however, is limited in that I do not have concrete examples of IEE's IRL to compare with.

I know for a fact however, that SEE's are capable of demolishing people with maliciousness that isn't really that detestable. Because for some reason, they have a freakin' reason to shout out.

Most of the time, I hate SEE's on first sight because they look so glamorous.

Second sight's another issue.

Also note the fact that I am highly biased, based on the current type that I believe myself to be right now, therefore the information I'm giving may not be entirely correct.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I see. Thanks cyclops I get what you mean.

For now I agree with you. He could very well be SEE/IEE.

However, I am more inclined to think gamma than delta.

This opinion however, is limited in that I do not have concrete examples of IEE's IRL to compare with.

I know for a fact however, that SEE's are capable of demolishing people with maliciousness that isn't really that detestable. Because for some reason, they have a freakin' reason to shout out.

Most of the time, I hate SEE's on first sight because they look so glamorous.

Second sight's another issue.

Also note the fact that I am highly biased, based on the current type that I believe myself to be right now, therefore the information I'm giving may not be entirely correct.

These are good points imo, I think he is probably SEE over IEE but although the evidence suggests he is, i'm not confident enough to say for sure, but I agree SEE seems more likely given that he is a bit too quick to conflict than IEE's (who seem less inclined to conflict because they don't enjoy it so much and/or they don't want to sever relations with people too much - their Ne makes them see future potentials in relationships so they can often play peacemaker even if they don't completely agree at that time).

I know for a fact however, that SEE's are capable of demolishing people with maliciousness that isn't really that detestable. Because for some reason, they have a freakin' reason to shout out.

Yeah, interesting that when it occurs.

[Reuben]

Did you say you were SLI?

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Yeah.

[Reuben]

I personally think that you are Ni>Si.

After knowing the SLI's in real life and on this thread (I only know icepick, regrettably), I am inclined to say that Si's hardly use phrases such as 'Way I see it (which could be wrong)', 'I suppose i'm seeing different things from you at this point.', 'Maybe there's other things I don't see yet and someone else can elaborate.'

All these (and similar phrases) seem to point towards strong Ne/Ni, which may suggest that you have Ne or Ni on your ego block. Since you type yourself as SLI and you have been that way for awhile, I am inclined that you are probably an IP temperament, since temperament differences are quite obvious.

As such I think ILI>SLI.

Just a suggestion for you to think about.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I personally think that you are Ni>Si.

After knowing the SLI's in real life and on this thread (I only know icepick, regrettably), I am inclined to say that Si's hardly use phrases such as 'Way I see it (which could be wrong)', 'I suppose i'm seeing different things from you at this point.', 'Maybe there's other things I don't see yet and someone else can elaborate.'

All these (and similar phrases) seem to point towards strong Ne/Ni, which may suggest that you have Ne or Ni on your ego block. Since you type yourself as SLI and you have been that way for awhile, I am inclined that you are probably an IP temperament, since temperament differences are quite obvious.

As such I think ILI>SLI.

Just a suggestion for you to think about.

No it's a decent suggestion.

The phrases such as "way I see it", "could be wrong" are as a result of me remembering to keep an open mind. It would be imo incorrect to imagine that I can 100% be right about someones type over the internet. It's also a way of being tactful incase the person thinks I am trying to force a type upon them, as there can be battle types which take place on the forum.

I've thought about INTp before, but irl i'm pretty S focused, although I do have some of what may be stereotypically known as "N" interests, they're eclipsed by the other stuff. ISTp with a mild Te sub type maybe makes sense, in a way.

Thank you for the suggestion though :-)

[Reuben]

Thanks for being open minded

Could you tell me how your S preference/focus manifests?

I may use your information to compare my own level of S preference/focus against yours, and possibly come to my own conclusions about my type and possibly yours, with no 100% certainty of course

[thePirate]

cerulean, cyclops, thank you both for your replies. well written and insightful, I just wish others who had typed me as another type had taken the time or had the ability to shed some light on the matter.

As for being esfp, thats pretty much out of the question. I have a seriously hard time believing I'm any kind of sensor, the sensors that know me would probably laugh at this suggestion, I'm not grounded in any way shape or form, I require people to ground me. I also dont value the same things as gamma, delta and beta both resonate with me to some extent.

Ugh, okay so apparently I've been misunderstanding socionics theory. For anyone curious, phaedrus was the one who had originally typed me as ENFp, and I stuck by it because it seemed to fit my understanding of socionics. other people had typed me as ENFj in that original thread, but it had been decided I wasn't because I didn't fit the rational profile. I was still a little iffy on the concepts and ENFP, ENFj, and INFp seemed to fit as those three descriptions were pretty similar in alot of places you look.

I was also under the impression that J's were all organized, neat, and were constantly doing things/pursuing their goals(almost ocd like). My rationale was that this was nothing like me, I've never really been organized or neat or a particular go-getter, except for certain things that really caught my interest. Anyway, if I have this right, my understanding of Judging types now, is not so much an outward appearance of neatness but a state of mind, a rigidity and way of doing things. This started striking me as other members on here said they weren't really the things I mentioned either.

Coupled this with a couple of ENFjs I've met that didnt strike me too well, the image of beta as an evil quadra, ****** being ENFj etc. - Let's just say I wasn't too ecstatic about considering beta anymore. I spent the past few days contemplating about how I was when I was younger, as some things happened as of late that I thought could screw with the results.

I was alot more opinionated and didnt shy away from arguements. I remember getting into confontational situations standing up for people close to me - I got really emotional and was more harsh with people than now. I also remember analyzing Fe dynamics as opposed to Fi ones. Whenever people would react to me in a positive way, laugh at my jokes, etc, I would assume that they liked me and would be baffled if they wouldnt be or were irritated at me. I remember grouping people based on 'coolness'(awareness of heirarchies?) lol..there were three: the cool kids, the ones in between, and the nerdy ones. Whenever I would hang out with the ones of a 'higher status' I would feel a shift in myself, like I became more important or something, its hard to explain. I remember wanting to hurt peoples feelings who hurt me, I did do some manipulative things that I cant say I'm pourd of. Chalk it up to childhood, I guess.

(I will say this however; I was really out of tune with social norms as a child, I did standout because of certain things that I didnt think were a big deal; things that looked good to me and seemed more 'efficient' were out of touch with what other people thought was. dont know what thats indicative of)

I think that sums up my Fe>Fi preference? As far as Te/Ti, that was a tougher one. I haven't really been efficient and too much cold logical theory bores the heck out of me. Unless its related to people. Anyway heres my rationale for Ti over Te: Whenever I would get into logical arguements with people the one thing I would hate and dont know how to respond to is when they question my sources (who did you get that from, how do you know they were telling the truth? do you believe everything you read?). If people question my understanding, my response is to inquire what was off so we can come to consensus. If they question the material I got it from, I dont think it really attacks the issue at hand; if the source was wrong then theres still an issue with me and you not having come to a mutual understanding.


As far as erotic attitudes, that I'm still iffy about. In terms of victim:

- prone to initial doubts about intensity of own interest in another person
- not always confident about revealing that interest
- inclined to focus on whether or not the other person might reciprocate the interest
- inclined to question whether or not the other person's interest will remain constant with time

If this only applies to before bf/gf then yes , after bf/gf is established I dont really think about this stuff anymore. As for infantile, I have acted 'child-like' with certain girls and have had the whole 'protect me' vibe infantiles exude; or at least so I have been told. I dont know if thats a state of being though. I dont try to attract with goofy/strange behavior. I can be those things, and probably am alot, but thats not how I try and attract potentials. I mainly do it because I think its funny. I never thought showing someone the 'weird side of life' was an effective way to attract.

Aggressors or Caregivers, I honestly dont know what to prefer.

Aggressors - they can be pretty in your face and thet gets old fast. On average, the are alot more irritating than caregivers(who rarely, if ever irritate me)

Caregivers - I find them really nice, although for that reason I think its a little harder to get my sex drive going for them(this is minus aesthetics of course)

On their behavior, it really depends how and where its directed. I knew this caregiver who didnt like me, we went out drinking with a group, she told me not to drink too much. I remember it pissing me off because, as I knew she didnt like me, I saw it as her trying to control me and tell me what to do. However this reaction was unusual, first and only time I have reacted like that towards that kind of action. My best friend is a caregiver, and around the ones I have been around, it does feel like I can talk to them about anything. I feel really comfortable talking to them knowing that we can talk peacefully and things wont implode

As for Aggressors, I feel like they get angry too easily and about petty things at times. Because of this I feel like I have to modify how and what I talk about and it kind of takes away from what I am trying to say. To be fair though, I would like more experiences with aggressors as I dont know if all of them try and argue forcefully/shove their opinions down your throat when they dont agree with you. Too much fighting depresses me; I got the feeling victims like that? That strayed me away from that attitude too. I like peace with maybe a little feistyness to spice things up.

Extra stuff: I think my definitions of Ne/Ni were mixed up too. I do prefer Ni and have used Ni much more. Throughout my life I have strived at getting at one conclusion, what will happen. I think I use Ne more as a teaching tool, as a way of relating to others, and going about handling relationships. I feel like if you know whats going to happen, your more equipped to change it; basically using Ne after the 'timeline' has already been estbalished. Also, I find Ni people always tend to assume things; skewed towards the negative, them being abit more presumptuous than Ne types who have a more naive/optimistic outlook on things. I do see myself as naive/optimistic but Im starting to think its a result of me trying to balance Ne with Ni, trying to see different possiblities and accept that even when I deep down beleive things are going to be a certainway.

Anyway, there are more examples but this post is already pretty long so Im going to end it here. In light of this information, it seems ENFj>ENFp.