Using your role to help your dual

[xerx]

First of all, according to Grigori Reinin anger is related to interruption of the base function (ie. pressure on the 7th). For example: An ENTp comes home late to his ISFj wife. The ISFj interrogates him on being late and tries to get him to follow some schedule. Intuition is about time, and for an dominant the passage of time is something completely variable that he juggles around to suit whatever activity he wants to perform. So the ENTp gets angry for being put in a vice. KABLAMO!!! Conflict relations.


OK with that stuff out of the way, according to Viktor Gulenko, actually projecting your anger outwards (ie. using it for some purpose) is related to .

Strengthening function forms demonstrative-artistic behavior. Corresponds to primary domination - through emotional pressure, the skill to inspire or frighten. Primary domination in animals is connected to the bright colorings, cries, expressive mimicry and gestures.

Now, in some ESTj descriptions they mention that ESTjs get angry (ie. use their role) in order to knock out others' negative emotions and passivate the emotional environment around them; bring it under their control. This helps their INFj dual, who can't operate well in environments with lots of "redundant" emotionality.

3. "Rage is a mighty god of the strong". He tends to take other people out of the condition of complacency. He does not speak much about what is good, considers it self-evident. With his grumbling emotions he strives to extinguish emotions of others. He believes that redundant emotions tire people, and this is absolutely true if applied to his dual (The Humanist). During a conversation he pressures his interlocutor, even tries to intimidate him, but if people do not fear him, he becomes courteous and polite. Fury is his line of defense in a situation of emergency in which he feels otherwise helpless. The aim of his fury is to mobilize his partner, and when this is achieved, he calms down.

So my question is has anyone experienced someone using the role to help out the dual? Not just in terms of ESTj-INFj relations but for all types.

[Jarno]

So my question is has anyone experienced someone using the role to help out the dual?
Discuss!

this question is based on the assumption that one can use 1 function at a time, even at own command.

We've had at least 2 threads about that saying that it isn't possible.

[xerx]

this question is based on the assumption that one can use 1 function at a time, even at own command.

We've had at least 2 threads about that saying that it isn't possible.

You can still answer the question notwithstanding whatever assumptions you make about using functions.

[717495]

No I think its the other way around. Your dual helps you diminish the negative tendencies of your role.

[xerx]

No I think its the other way around. Your dual helps you diminish the negative tendencies of your role.

Yes that is also true. There is some kind of reciprocal exchange going on though.

[717495]

The role function doesn't seem to directly have an impact on your dual since its their ignoring function. So what do you think you mean?

[Jarno]

You can still answer the question notwithstanding whatever assumptions you make about using functions.

No, I don't like keeping myths alive.

[xerx]

No, I don't like keeping myths alive.

You're not keeping it alive if you just answer the question: either yes or no. And you don't even know whether or not it's a myth.

[Jarno]

either yes or no.

No.

[Gilly]

Well our role function corresponds to our partner's ignoring function: our most active weak function to their least active strong function. Using the ignoring function forces one to take emphasis off of the dominant function, so our dual uses their role function to "get it out of the way;" while they might not be as capable in that area, they switch to the appropriate state more readily since it requires the same energy levels as their dominant function.

[Marie84]

I generally associate the use of the Role Function with a deficiency in the Suggestive Function. People tend use the Role Function to compensate, so to speak, when they don't know what to do in situations that seem to require a need for it

The part about LSE- "With his grumbling emotions he strives to extinguish emotions of others. He believes that redundant emotions tire people, and this is absolutely true if applied to his dual (The Humanist)."
They do this because they value an Fi, Ij, atmosphere to feel comfortable/relaxed, and since they're already naturally nervous, restless, people they may react in a burst of frustration if they feel that excessive pressure is being placed on them. I'm not excusing this at all, but that's seems to be their reasoning

Although I can see how it can be used to help a dual;
LSE's tend to use Fe to initiate and maintain a social situation, which makes EII's feel comfortable and wanted
On the other end of the spectrum, ESE's use Te by being proactive in their pursuits, which puts LII's at ease that someone else is taking on the tasks that they may feel too uncomfortable to initiate

[marooned]

First of all, according to Grigori Reinin anger is related to interruption of the base function (ie. pressure on the 7th). For example: An ENTp comes home late to his ISFj wife. The ISFj interrogates him on being late and tries to get him to follow some schedule. Intuition is about time, and for an dominant the passage of time is something completely variable that he juggles around to suit whatever activity he wants to perform

Really? I don't think Ni is about being on a schedule. (iow, I could see the passage of time being variable to Ni dominants as well, though depends what really is meant by "variable")

[xerx]

Really? I don't think Ni is about being on a schedule. (iow, I could see the passage of time being variable to Ni dominants as well, though depends what really is meant by "variable")

No you're right. The Ni I had in mind when I wrote it is an ENTJ's (ISFJ's dual) use of Ni, which would be a rational use of it.

It's not a simple matter of Ne vs Ni. Temperaments are important too. INTP is ENTP's best inter-type from Gamma, so rationality/irrationality plays a huge role. Anyway, INTPs can be just as creative with "time" IME.

[marooned]

No you're right. The Ni I had in mind when I wrote it is an ENTJ's (ISFJ's dual) use of Ni, which would be a rational use of it.

It's not a simple matter of Ne vs Ni. Temperaments are important too. INTP is ENTP's best inter-type from Gamma, so rationality/irrationality plays a huge role.

gotcha

[FDG]

There's a similar line in the ENTj description, although of course with the positivist-negativist dichotomy switched (i.e. ENTjs have positive emotions). Here it is:

He quickly reacts to everything that brings emotions, especially positive. He is as if preprogrammed for rising spirits of his dual (The Guardian) who always looks somewhat scared or angry. He permanently irradiates friendliness, positive emotions, and smiles. He tries to make his partner laugh, shakes and hassles her in all possible ways, until she finally reacts, either positively or negatively, otherwise he will not have information about his condition (of course, in this sentence HE and SHE pronouns may be used vice versa).

An equivalent line regarding ENTp's use of Se:

Danger. Critical situations pep him up as much as good others’ emotions. The more emotions and panic there is around him, the more active and assertive he becomes. It is impossible to intimidate him – an attempt to do so produces just the opposite outcome. He willingly takes responsibility in critical situations; however, in peaceful and quiet conditions he starts to doubt his right to occupy a responsible position, gets frustrated by the competition and leaves.

[xerx]

Danger. Critical situations pep him up as much as good others’ emotions. The more emotions and panic there is around him, the more active and assertive he becomes. It is impossible to intimidate him – an attempt to do so produces just the opposite outcome. He willingly takes responsibility in critical situations; however, in peaceful and quiet conditions he starts to doubt his right to occupy a responsible position, gets frustrated by the competition and leaves.

Yeah that about sums me up.