Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: Using your role to help your dual

  1. #1
    xerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    5,464
    Mentioned
    53 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Using your role to help your dual

    First of all, according to Grigori Reinin anger is related to interruption of the base function (ie. pressure on the 7th). For example: An ENTp comes home late to his ISFj wife. The ISFj interrogates him on being late and tries to get him to follow some schedule. Intuition is about time, and for an dominant the passage of time is something completely variable that he juggles around to suit whatever activity he wants to perform. So the ENTp gets angry for being put in a vice. KABLAMO!!! Conflict relations.


    OK with that stuff out of the way, according to Viktor Gulenko, actually projecting your anger outwards (ie. using it for some purpose) is related to .
    Quote Originally Posted by DCNH article
    Strengthening function forms demonstrative-artistic behavior. Corresponds to primary domination - through emotional pressure, the skill to inspire or frighten. Primary domination in animals is connected to the bright colorings, cries, expressive mimicry and gestures.
    Now, in some ESTj descriptions they mention that ESTjs get angry (ie. use their role) in order to knock out others' negative emotions and passivate the emotional environment around them; bring it under their control. This helps their INFj dual, who can't operate well in environments with lots of "redundant" emotionality.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Description
    3. "Rage is a mighty god of the strong". He tends to take other people out of the condition of complacency. He does not speak much about what is good, considers it self-evident. With his grumbling emotions he strives to extinguish emotions of others. He believes that redundant emotions tire people, and this is absolutely true if applied to his dual (The Humanist). During a conversation he pressures his interlocutor, even tries to intimidate him, but if people do not fear him, he becomes courteous and polite. Fury is his line of defense in a situation of emergency in which he feels otherwise helpless. The aim of his fury is to mobilize his partner, and when this is achieved, he calms down.
    So my question is has anyone experienced someone using the role to help out the dual? Not just in terms of ESTj-INFj relations but for all types.
    Last edited by xerx; 01-06-2010 at 02:57 AM.
    You can do anything with a bayonet except sit on it.

  2. #2
    Jarno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Netherlands
    TIM
    ILI-Te
    Posts
    5,375
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    So my question is has anyone experienced someone using the role to help out the dual?
    Discuss!
    this question is based on the assumption that one can use 1 function at a time, even at own command.

    We've had at least 2 threads about that saying that it isn't possible.

  3. #3
    xerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    5,464
    Mentioned
    53 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    this question is based on the assumption that one can use 1 function at a time, even at own command.

    We've had at least 2 threads about that saying that it isn't possible.
    You can still answer the question notwithstanding whatever assumptions you make about using functions.
    You can do anything with a bayonet except sit on it.

  4. #4
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,337
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    No I think its the other way around. Your dual helps you diminish the negative tendencies of your role.

  5. #5
    xerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    5,464
    Mentioned
    53 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    No I think its the other way around. Your dual helps you diminish the negative tendencies of your role.
    Yes that is also true. There is some kind of reciprocal exchange going on though.
    You can do anything with a bayonet except sit on it.

  6. #6
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,337
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The role function doesn't seem to directly have an impact on your dual since its their ignoring function. So what do you think you mean?

  7. #7
    Jarno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Netherlands
    TIM
    ILI-Te
    Posts
    5,375
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    You can still answer the question notwithstanding whatever assumptions you make about using functions.
    No, I don't like keeping myths alive.

  8. #8
    xerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    5,464
    Mentioned
    53 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    No, I don't like keeping myths alive.
    You're not keeping it alive if you just answer the question: either yes or no. And you don't even know whether or not it's a myth.
    You can do anything with a bayonet except sit on it.

  9. #9
    Jarno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Netherlands
    TIM
    ILI-Te
    Posts
    5,375
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    either yes or no.
    No.

  10. #10
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,757
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Well our role function corresponds to our partner's ignoring function: our most active weak function to their least active strong function. Using the ignoring function forces one to take emphasis off of the dominant function, so our dual uses their role function to "get it out of the way;" while they might not be as capable in that area, they switch to the appropriate state more readily since it requires the same energy levels as their dominant function.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  11. #11
    Marie84's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    TIM
    EII
    Posts
    2,359
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I generally associate the use of the Role Function with a deficiency in the Suggestive Function. People tend use the Role Function to compensate, so to speak, when they don't know what to do in situations that seem to require a need for it

    The part about LSE- "With his grumbling emotions he strives to extinguish emotions of others. He believes that redundant emotions tire people, and this is absolutely true if applied to his dual (The Humanist)."
    They do this because they value an Fi, Ij, atmosphere to feel comfortable/relaxed, and since they're already naturally nervous, restless, people they may react in a burst of frustration if they feel that excessive pressure is being placed on them. I'm not excusing this at all, but that's seems to be their reasoning

    Although I can see how it can be used to help a dual;
    LSE's tend to use Fe to initiate and maintain a social situation, which makes EII's feel comfortable and wanted
    On the other end of the spectrum, ESE's use Te by being proactive in their pursuits, which puts LII's at ease that someone else is taking on the tasks that they may feel too uncomfortable to initiate
    EII INFj
    Forum status: retired

  12. #12
    The Iniquitous inumbra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    954
    Posts
    5,989
    Mentioned
    70 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    First of all, according to Grigori Reinin anger is related to interruption of the base function (ie. pressure on the 7th). For example: An ENTp comes home late to his ISFj wife. The ISFj interrogates him on being late and tries to get him to follow some schedule. Intuition is about time, and for an dominant the passage of time is something completely variable that he juggles around to suit whatever activity he wants to perform
    Really? I don't think Ni is about being on a schedule. (iow, I could see the passage of time being variable to Ni dominants as well, though depends what really is meant by "variable")

  13. #13
    xerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    5,464
    Mentioned
    53 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Really? I don't think Ni is about being on a schedule. (iow, I could see the passage of time being variable to Ni dominants as well, though depends what really is meant by "variable")
    No you're right. The Ni I had in mind when I wrote it is an ENTJ's (ISFJ's dual) use of Ni, which would be a rational use of it.

    It's not a simple matter of Ne vs Ni. Temperaments are important too. INTP is ENTP's best inter-type from Gamma, so rationality/irrationality plays a huge role. Anyway, INTPs can be just as creative with "time" IME.
    You can do anything with a bayonet except sit on it.

  14. #14
    The Iniquitous inumbra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    954
    Posts
    5,989
    Mentioned
    70 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    No you're right. The Ni I had in mind when I wrote it is an ENTJ's (ISFJ's dual) use of Ni, which would be a rational use of it.

    It's not a simple matter of Ne vs Ni. Temperaments are important too. INTP is ENTP's best inter-type from Gamma, so rationality/irrationality plays a huge role.
    gotcha

  15. #15
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,626
    Mentioned
    156 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    There's a similar line in the ENTj description, although of course with the positivist-negativist dichotomy switched (i.e. ENTjs have positive emotions). Here it is:

    He quickly reacts to everything that brings emotions, especially positive. He is as if preprogrammed for rising spirits of his dual (The Guardian) who always looks somewhat scared or angry. He permanently irradiates friendliness, positive emotions, and smiles. He tries to make his partner laugh, shakes and hassles her in all possible ways, until she finally reacts, either positively or negatively, otherwise he will not have information about his condition (of course, in this sentence HE and SHE pronouns may be used vice versa).
    An equivalent line regarding ENTp's use of Se:

    Danger. Critical situations pep him up as much as good others’ emotions. The more emotions and panic there is around him, the more active and assertive he becomes. It is impossible to intimidate him – an attempt to do so produces just the opposite outcome. He willingly takes responsibility in critical situations; however, in peaceful and quiet conditions he starts to doubt his right to occupy a responsible position, gets frustrated by the competition and leaves.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  16. #16
    xerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    5,464
    Mentioned
    53 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Danger. Critical situations pep him up as much as good others’ emotions. The more emotions and panic there is around him, the more active and assertive he becomes. It is impossible to intimidate him – an attempt to do so produces just the opposite outcome. He willingly takes responsibility in critical situations; however, in peaceful and quiet conditions he starts to doubt his right to occupy a responsible position, gets frustrated by the competition and leaves.
    Yeah that about sums me up.
    You can do anything with a bayonet except sit on it.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •