Celebrities (typings by JuJu)

[JuJu]

This post is intended to give interested people insight into the Sociotypes--examples of what they can look like, and how they can act.

By seeing video examples of the Sociotypes, I've found that it becomes easier to identify them in real life... (I.e. "Oh, that person reminds me of so-and-so...") Thus one can make more immediate judgments about other peoples' Sociotypes, and use this system more effectively to (immediately) benefit oneself.

Generally, what I post will be new typings, (i.e. not from the database I keep; ) however, I'll try to make them ones of which I'm confident.

Rasputin -- ISTj (tough to tell which subtype--reported interests point to Ti, reported behavior to Se)


Jim Jones (Jonestown) -- Fe-ENFj


Jim Jones' son, Stephan -- beta introvert


Valerie Bertinelli -- Fe-ENFj (her ex-husband, Eddie Van Halen, is ISTj)


Vladimir Lenin -- Ti-ESTp

[JuJu]

Nicholas II of Russia -- INFp


James Cameron (director of Titanic, Avatar) -- Ni-ENFj


David Koresh (Branch Davidian leader at Waco) -- Ni-ENFj

[Marie84]

I think you may be right about these, I've seen Lenin typed as LSI before but I'm not confident about him either way.

btw, why EIE and not ILE for Cameron? From what I've read him say, he seems more preoccupied by advancement in technology than the actual story telling process, which is generally more NT while the latter is NF.
He also seemed to have had a conflict relationship with Kate Winslet, who has openly talked about her disdain for him, which would be unlikely for an ESI-EIE relation, though not impossible

[Creepy-male]

Can someone educate me on what this Ti-ESTp stuff is.... what does it mean when you specify a function and a type together?

How is Ti-ESTp different than say Se-ESTp, and can their be for example a Fe-ESTp?

[Morcheeba]

Can someone educate me on what this Ti-ESTp stuff is.... what does it mean when you specify a function and a type together?

How is Ti-ESTp different than say Se-ESTp, and can their be for example a Fe-ESTp?

A ti-estp is more adept at noticing the external statics of fields, so they can come across as more introverted and contemplative. An se-estp notices the external statics of objects, so they will exhibit behavior more close to what you would consider a typical estp, they also might be controlling. And, no their is no such thing as an fe-estp.

[JuJu]

Senator Christopher Dodd (Democrat, Connecticut) -- Te-ENTj


Nancy Grace (TV host) -- Fe-ENFj


Tommy Heinsohn (Celtics TV announcer) -- Se-ESFp


Joyce Meyer (TV minister) -- Se-ISTj


John Ratzenberger (Cliff Clavin from Cheers) -- Ni-ENFj

[Morcheeba]

Nancy Grace (TV host) -- Fe-ENFj



Oh good lord, I can't stand that woman. It seems like she's always standing on a soap box and complaining about the evil men in the world.

[JuJu]

Ice Cube (rapper and actor) -- Se-ESTp


Ryan Buell (the guy from Paranormal State) -- Ni-INFp


Senator Orin Hatch (Republican, Utah, talking about Sen Ted Kennedy, his dual) -- Ni-INTp


Channing Tatum (actor) -- Se-ESTp


Trey Wingo (ESPN anchor) -- Ni-ENFj

[JuJu]

Good question (!) about Ni-ENFj vs. ENTp:

Since this forum began, people have been mixing up these two types.

In my experience, Ni-ENFjs come across as (comparatively vs. Fe-ENFjs, and for lack of better words) business-like and dry. (I don't mean these adjectives in any pejorative sense... To me, a Fe-ENFj, Ni-ENFjs also come across as comparatively more confident and secure.) For example, compare Ni-ENFjs John Ratzenberger or Trey Wingo to Fe-ENFjs Magic Johnson or Seth MacFarlane. The latter have 'BIG' flamboyant personalities, whereas the former come across as more business-like and severe.

Over the years, this forum hasn't been great at recognizing Ni-ENFjs because they present quite differently than the ENFj stereotype.

Indeed, they present somewhat like ENTps, i.e. 'business-like' and 'dry.' Like ENTps, they can also be zany. Thus the comparison between Ni-ENFjs and ENTps is apt, and the confusion is understandable.

How to tell the difference between Ni-ENFjs and ENTps..? Listen to which subjects they talk about... ENFjs will frame (generally people-related) topics with Ni, whereas ENTps will be Ne-ing, (to me, a Fe-ENFj, this comes across as random zaniness/logical jumps,) with a much less heavy-handed/people-oriented conversational emphasis.

I hope that helps.

[JuJu]

Barry Williams (Greg from The Brady Bunch) -- Se-ISFj


Sean Hannity (TV anchor) -- ENTj


Conan O'Brien (TV show host) -- Ne-ENTp


Senator Joe Liebermann (Independent, Connecticut) -- Fi-INFj


Joseph Stalin (Russian Communist leader) -- Se-ISTj

[thePirate]

where are my enfpss

[JuJu]

Can someone educate me on what this Ti-ESTp stuff is.... what does it mean when you specify a function and a type together?

How is Ti-ESTp different than say Se-ESTp, and can their be for example a Fe-ESTp?

Good question.

You'll probably know some of the stuff I'll go over below--I'm doing it just in case someone reading this thread doesn't know.

Many Socionists divide Sociotypes into two subtypes to more specifically describe someone's personality.

Ti-ESTp = one of the two subtypes of the ESTp Sociotype, (the other being Se-ESTp.)

Meged and O. wrote excellent descriptions of the 16 Sociotypes' subtypes, which can be found at WikiSocion.

Simply put, Ti-ESTps emphasize their creative function; Se-ESTps emphasize their base function. Thus their personalities come across differently. For example, Ti-ESTps--comparatively, vs. Se-ESTps--come across a bit drier, (e.g. Sammy Hagar of Van Halen,) whereas Se-ESTps come across as a bit more reckless, (e.g. boxer Mike Tyson.)

In my experience, subtypes are important because they can alter inter-type relations, (even duality.) They're also important in typing--many people have been mistyped because subtypes haven't been taken into account, (see above post regarding Ni-ENFj vs. ENTp.)

The answer that Morcheeba gave about statics and objects--I have attempted to evaluate that theory, and frankly, never noticed anything in reality to support it.

[Marie84]

Good question (!) about Ni-ENFj vs. ENTp:

Since this forum began, people have been mixing up these two types.

In my experience, Ni-ENFjs come across as (comparatively vs. Fe-ENFjs, and for lack of better words) business-like and dry. (I don't mean these adjectives in any pejorative sense... To me, a Fe-ENFj, Ni-ENFjs also come across as comparatively more confident and secure.) For example, compare Ni-ENFjs John Ratzenberger or Trey Wingo to Fe-ENFjs Magic Johnson or Seth MacFarlane. The latter have 'BIG' flamboyant personalities, whereas the former come across as more business-like and severe.

Over the years, this forum hasn't been great at recognizing Ni-ENFjs because they present quite differently than the ENFj stereotype.

Indeed, they present somewhat like ENTps, i.e. 'business-like' and 'dry.' Like ENTps, they can also be zany. Thus the comparison between Ni-ENFjs and ENTps is apt, and the confusion is understandable.

How to tell the difference between Ni-ENFjs and ENTps..? Listen to which subjects they talk about... ENFjs will frame (generally people-related) topics with Ni, whereas ENTps will be Ne-ing, (to me, a Fe-ENFj, this comes across as random zaniness/logical jumps,) with a much less heavy-handed/people-oriented conversational emphasis.

I hope that helps.

I see where you're going with this but it's still better to type based on what people actually say and do than just their outer core.
While there's a link to mannerisms and types even that can be deceiving to an extent, I've been shown that a few times myself by other users who did more research than me on certain people.

While a lot of ILE's are quite goofy and awkward they're some who act more professionally, Steven Spielberg for example

Not to say that Cameron is in fact an ILE, but it's not at all unlikely based on a lot of what he's said about his work, ideas and interest in technological advances. He seems to process the same interests in film-making as other Alpha directors do, which is centered more on the aesthetics and novel ideas than on story telling and relationships/people.
But of course I'd revoke that typing if there's further info on him that contradicts ILE

btw I think Conan O'Brien is an LIE

[JuJu]

I see where you're going with this but it's still better to type based on what people actually say and do than just their outer core.

I agree with this 100%. Frankly, I'm surprised by your response because it seems like you understood something from my post, which was the opposite of what I was trying to get across to you.

I base my typing of Cameron, in this instance, on how his personality manifests--primarily in what he says, but also (albeit less so) in how he says it, i.e. what's he's getting at. (How he looks is support for the typing, if it's anything--and frankly, it's not much for me. I don't put much stock in appearances.)

I disagree with the notion that his movies aren't people-focused, and I'd offer Titanic as an example... If you're really interested in his personality type, I'd suggest watching interviews with him and trying to note conversational themes. Thus is how I typed him.

For the record, I'm not sold on Steven Spielberg being ILE, (although I believe that he's alpha extrovert.) I think that Spielberg might be ESE.

[Sol]

Nice thread.

William Shatner - ESFP

[Wittmont]

I see where you're going with this but it's still better to type based on what people actually say and do than just their outer core.
While there's a link to mannerisms and types even that can be deceiving to an extent, I've been shown that a few times myself by other users who did more research than me on certain people.

While a lot of ILE's are quite goofy and awkward they're some who act more professionally, Steven Spielberg for example

Not to say that Cameron is in fact an ILE, but it's not at all unlikely based on a lot of what he's said about his work, ideas and interest in technological advances. He seems to process the same interests in film-making as other Alpha directors do, which is centered more on the aesthetics and novel ideas than on story telling and relationships/people.
But of course I'd revoke that typing if there's further info on him that contradicts ILE

btw I think Conan O'Brien is an LIE

I really struggle to see EIE for Cameron. His Ni, to me, is just disastrous. Maybe it is a matter of the so called "global difference" in outlook between mirrors but I think there is more than that. I still remember how totally ludicrous I found the ending of the Abyss for example... simply a horrible ending. And his movies are always so Te - practical logic, people thinking fast on their feet using tools to survive (The Abyss, Aliens, Avatar, The Terminator movies, Rambo II...) Easily the most interesting character in Avatar was the bad guy... The main characters were boring and poorly developed, which is standard Cameron. His characters are just action figures.

Also, to me he VI's LSE.

[silverchris9]

I don't really connect James Cameron's lack of skill at creating characters will full-fledged personalities to his type; I connect it to the fact that he's been succeeding, massively, for decades, with movie featuring poorly developed characters and (frequently) mediocre to crappy actors. I totally buy him as EIE, as he said lots of EIE-buzzword things in the interview Juju posted. I also buy EIE-Ni's as more withdrawn but still focusing primarily on the expression of emotions over the evolving relationships of abstract/intangible entities (that is, internal dynamics of fields)

Nancy Grace is one of the people I like least in the entire world, but no one can doubt that she's a clear beta. EIE fits perfectly for her. She's a paradigm of the type, in my opinion (just for clarity of typing, not for how members of that type normally are as people; she just manifests the characteristics so clearly). Also, she's a good example of Ti vs Fi moral outrage. The Ti version is much more categorical and cause-and-effect-ish: action a merits response b. Fi, on the other hand, doesn't focus on causality and cause and effect, but on the feelings of the individuals who are suffering. Ti + Fe approach to morality is a clear cause-and-effect assumption (Ti) supported in the external world by emotional demonstrations of what-must-happen (Fe). Fi + Te approach to morality is subjective focus on feelings and sufferings (Fi) supported in the external world by literal facts that give the feelings something to attach to (Te), as in statistics about the number of x's that have died or some such.

While I can't object to the typing of Liberman as INFj, that interview didn't strike me as especially INFj, except for the whole appeal to family bit. He did get his behind handed to him by that other Senator though, and so I suppose that could be seen as an example of weak Ti (he did at least attempt to set up categorical opposites, but they were very poorly created and defended).

The answer that Morcheeba gave about statics and objects--I have attempted to evaluate that theory, and frankly, never noticed anything in reality to support it.

Obviously it takes more to get from a very theoretical description of external statics of objects to literal behavior (or something "in reality"), but the connection is there. Nevertheless, the "aspectonics" descriptions should be considered microlevel accounts or explanations of macrolevel phenomena, much like Democritus' theory of the atoms (microlevel properties, like the roughness or smoothness of the atoms comprising a food results in macrolevel phenomena, like sweetness or sourness).

How is Ti-ESTp different than say Se-ESTp, and can their be for example a Fe-ESTp?

Generally according to the main line of Model A socionics, no. But, oftentimes people using the DCNH subtype system (at least on this board), will refer to a type with a subtype that is not one of their ego functions, such as an Fe-ESTp, which would be an ESTp with stronger Fe than the average ESTp and consequently a dominating subtype.

[Jarno]

I remember vaguely that William Shatner was typed ENFJ. Which I always considered possible. I've got no real opinion about his type, but ESTP-ti wouldn't be the first thing to come up in my mind. I've seen a lot of star treks, in which he 'plays?' an charismatic leader. I don't know him beyond that.

[JuJu]

Tony LaRussa (baseball coach) -- INTp

Jimmy Swaggert (tv minister) -- Ni-ENFj

Pete Carroll (football coach) -- Fi-ESFp


Russell Crowe (actor) -- ISTj (tough to tell which subtype--borderline case


Mark Harmon (actor on NCIS) -- Se-ISFj

[JuJu]

Chuck Todd (news commentator) -- INTj


Charlie Sheen -- ESFp


LaDainian Tomlinson (football player) -- Ti-ISTj


Josh Smith (basketball player) -- Ti-ISTj

[JuJu]

I remember vaguely that William Shatner was typed ENFJ. Which I always considered possible. I've got no real opinion about his type, but ESTP-ti wouldn't be the first thing to come up in my mind. I've seen a lot of star treks, in which he 'plays?' an charismatic leader. I don't know him beyond that.

This is insightful... I see what you mean. I'm going to take Shatner down for now and think about it... Like it was said above by Sol, ESFp is a possibility..

[JuJu]

Sarah Palin (politician) -- ESFp


Ray Lewis (football player) -- Se-ESTp


Andrea Mitchell (journalist) -- Ni-INFp


Jay Bilas (basketball analyst) -- ENTp


Jay Cutler (football player) -- Ti-ISTj

[Gilly]

God I wanna delete this thread just because you're such a presumptuous ass.

[JuJu]

God I wanna delete this thread just because you're such a presumptuous ass.

Your problems have nothing to do with me, (or this thread,) Gilly.

The idea of deleting a thread about Socionics from a forum about Socionics--for no other reason than your own problems in your own mind--is ridiculous.

[Gilly]

My only problem is you, you uninsightful wannabe psychologist piece of shit. Get the fuck off my forum.

[Gilly]

Fucking fake ass poison. Stay the fuck away.

[JuJu]

you say "stay the fuck away..." Who wrote to who here..? You posted in this thread... I didn't follow you around and make you post in this thread... lol ridiculous.

I don't go around posting after you "omg I hate you SOOOO much, omg, blah blah blah..." That's what you did here.

This is your issue man, not mine... I hope you see that... I don't have a problem with you.

This post could help some people learn about Socionics. It's more important to me to talk about Socionics than get involved in your flame war.

[JuJu]

To get this thread away from the flame war, I'll post some other typings I just noticed on ESPN:


Michelle Beadle (ESPN host) -- ESFp


Tony Reali (ESPN host) -- Fe-ENFj


JA Adande (ESPN host) -- Ti-ISTj


Jay Mariotti -- Se-ESTp

[Krig the Viking]

Mark Harmon (actor on NCIS) -- Se-ISFj
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6cj0mImiek

I know we've discussed this before (well, technically it was about his character on NCIS), but I really think Mark Harmon is SLI. In the interview you posted, most of what he said about himself centred around how "handy" he is, building shelves and cars and (hypothetically) airplanes. This seems more stereotypically ST than SF, and specifically Delta ST.

Interestingly, our disagreement on Harmon's type backs up something I've been noticing lately -- Benefit pairs are often mistaken for one another. You often see SLIs confused with LIIs, for example, or LIIs with IEIs, or SEEs with EIEs, etc. I'm not really sure why this is; it's just something I've noticed.

[Edit: By the way, what's your opinion on Craig Ferguson's type? He seems ILE to me. I find knowing the type of the interviewer is often helpful in figuring out the type of the interviewee.]

[Morcheeba]

That guy from NCIS reminds me of Kevin Costner, who is also SLI. I agree with you Krig, benefit pairs can get confused quite a bit. Maybe it has to do with subtypes. Like, if you have a strong subtype, you can come across like your benefactor/beneficiary; but if you are a balanced type I think that confusion wouldn't be there. I don't know, what do you think?

[Krig the Viking]

That guy from NCIS reminds me of Kevin Costner, who is also SLI. I agree with you Krig, benefit pairs can get confused quite a bit. Maybe it has to do with subtypes. Like, if you have a strong subtype, you can come across like your benefactor/beneficiary; but if you are a balanced type I think that confusion wouldn't be there. I don't know, what do you think?

Actually, I was kind of thinking along those lines. What I'd like to do is compile a list of all the people where there's confusion between Benefit types, and see if any patterns emerge.

Unfortunately, there's a lot of things I'd like to do, and not enough time to do them in.

[Gilly]

you say "stay the fuck away..." Who wrote to who here..? You posted in this thread... I didn't follow you around and make you post in this thread... lol ridiculous.

I don't go around posting after you "omg I hate you SOOOO much, omg, blah blah blah..." That's what you did here.

This is your issue man, not mine... I hope you see that... I don't have a problem with you.

This post could help some people learn about Socionics. It's more important to me to talk about Socionics than get involved in your flame war.

I don't think you understand. YOU are my problem. Not something about you, not something about me. YOU. You aren't teaching anyone anything, you pedantic fuck; you just want to get your rocks off by being praised for some pointless, insipid bullshit.

In short, yes, it's MY problem. You want to know what it is? Go stare in the mirror; it'll make both of us happy.

[Gilly]

Sarah Palin is ESE IMO.

[Krig the Viking]

Sarah Palin is ESE IMO.

I agree.

[Gilly]

I agree.

If you're willing to accept her as your dual, I must be right

[717495]

I was always unsure if Sarah Palin was an ESI or SEE. There have been good arguments for both.

As much as I don't really relate to her, I am fairly sure she is Gamma and not Alpha. But she comes across so strongly Fi and Se that I don't know which type she really is. If she were ESE, then she would be faking the amount of Se and Fi she emphasizes, as well as severely diminishing her Fe lifestyle. So I generally lean towards ESI for her, and have an easier time picturing the lifestyle she portrays as Fi and her way of communicating politically sometimes has a lot of Ni.

[Krig the Viking]

If you're willing to accept her as your dual, I must be right

I actually like her, personality-wise. I usually get a stronger negative impression from SEEs.

I think she and Glenn Beck (who I type as ILE) are the two main prominent figures in what I see as an Alpha-led Alpha/Delta uprising within the American conservative movement, as exemplified by the Tea Parties. The primarily Gamma NT Republican establishment is wary of accepting their involvement, seeing their idealism as impractical. Both groups have a tendency to see each other as "the enemy within" (the Democrats, of course, being "the enemy without" ). I think an SEE would be much more easily accepted by the Republican establishment.

[Gilly]

I was always unsure if Sarah Palin was an ESI or SEE. There have been good arguments for both.

As much as I don't really relate to her, I am fairly sure she is Gamma and not Alpha. But she comes across so strongly Fi and Se that I don't know which type she really is. If she were ESE, then she would be faking the amount of Se and Fi she emphasizes, as well as severely diminishing her Fe lifestyle. So I generally lean towards ESI for her, and have an easier time picturing the lifestyle she portrays as Fi and her way of communicating politically sometimes has a lot of Ni.

Wow, you like a vapid bitchy ESE politician. Sure you're ILI.

[717495]

Wow, you like a vapid bitchy ESE politician. Sure you're ILI.

I don't really like her, no. I can't really relate to her either. But she is not an ESE. I could tell if she were an ESE right off the bat, I often cringe at them. This Sarah Palin is more introverted I think. SEEs seem overall more attention grabbing, not as soft and sensitive in communication. She leans overall towards rationality and definite Fi-ESI themes I can't relate to personally.

I actually like her, personality-wise. I usually get a stronger negative impression from SEEs.

I think she and Glenn Beck (who I type as ILE) are the two main prominent figures in what I see as an Alpha-led Alpha/Delta uprising within the American conservative movement, as exemplified by the Tea Parties.

An association with Glenn Back as an ILE? Where is the Ne? I've always seen him as a standing out IEI. Sneering, contempt, often misinformative, hypocritcal of other's behavior, easily dismisses anything he feels like. Obvious Te PoLR, Ni type. Common IEI radio host stereotype.

[Gilly]

I think an SEE would be much more easily accepted by the Republican establishment.

Not only that, an SEE wouldn't risk her influence or seat of power by jumping feet-first into an "up and coming" party movement that doesn't promise security. But it's exactly what an eager, idealistic Alpha Extrovert would do, especially one with confidence in her ability to create a new position for herself by serving as an apparent catalyst for that classic core Fe/Ti axis cathexis, which is quite clearly her role in the Neo-Con movement.