Results 1 to 31 of 31

Thread: Alpha vs Gamma aristocracy

  1. #1
    Creepy-female

    Default Alpha vs. Gamma aristocracy

    .
    Last edited by female; 07-09-2015 at 03:42 PM.

  2. #2
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,337
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    And how about Beta and Delta democracy while we're at it?

  3. #3
    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    everywhere at once
    Posts
    8,449
    Mentioned
    203 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Whoops
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

  4. #4
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,983
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Not sure if this is entirely right, but let's throw it out here:

    Alpha: trusting and accepting everyone until given reason not to

    Gamma: trusting and accepting no one without good reason


    Both lead to individualistic mindsets with no regard to groups despite that they are opposites.

  5. #5
    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Kansas
    TIM
    Introvert sp/sx
    Posts
    7,739
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    It's a good start. I like it.
    Moonlight will fall
    Winter will end
    Harvest will come
    Your heart will mend

  6. #6
    Trevor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    2,860
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Alpha - democracy
    Gamma - snobishness

  7. #7
    Executor MatthewZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    TIM
    Ne-LII
    Posts
    800
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tuturututu View Post
    Alpha - democracy
    Gamma - snobishness
    Alpha - Anarchy
    Gamma - A system that actually WORKS.

    </partially tongue-in-cheek>

  8. #8
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,624
    Mentioned
    155 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    Not sure if this is entirely right, but let's throw it out here:

    Alpha: trusting and accepting everyone until given reason not to

    Gamma: trusting and accepting no one without good reason


    Both lead to individualistic mindsets with no regard to groups despite that they are opposites.
    I don't really relate to the secondo mindset...
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  9. #9
    Eldanen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Southeastern USA
    TIM
    ILI 5w4 sx/??
    Posts
    489
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Alpha: taking eye of the dynamics of a relationship and altering their responses based on the behavior of the other person. if it changes, they will change the status of the relationship.

    Gammas: idealize individuals into demons and angels. once they make their minds up, they don't often change in regard to relations.
    Last edited by Eldanen; 01-11-2010 at 12:38 PM.

  10. #10
    Darn Socks Director Abbie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Southwest USA
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    6,723
    Mentioned
    235 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldanen View Post
    Alpha: taking eye of the dynamics of a relationship and altering their responses based on the behavior of the other person. if it changes, they will change the status of the relationship.

    Gammas: idealize individuals into demons and angels. once they make their minds up, they don't often change in regard to relations.
    Sounds like the difference between merry and serious. Last week I asked Brilliand whether ArchonAlaron was a reliable source, and he wouldn't give me a straight answer, just "Sometimes." "Sometimes" is no help. In my mind, people are either credible or not, and it doesn't change unless the person changes drastically.

    ESTj
    1w2 sp/so 1-2-6
    Brilliand's Younger Sister
    Squishy's Older Sister

    Johari Nohari

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

  11. #11
    Executor MatthewZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    TIM
    Ne-LII
    Posts
    800
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Sounds like the difference between merry and serious. Last week I asked Brilliand whether ArchonAlaron was a reliable source, and he wouldn't give me a straight answer, just "Sometimes." "Sometimes" is no help. In my mind, people are either credible or not, and it doesn't change unless the person changes drastically.
    People are usually more credible in certain areas moreso than others. The broader answer of "always" fit the relatively broad question.

  12. #12
    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    everywhere at once
    Posts
    8,449
    Mentioned
    203 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewZ View Post
    People are usually more credible in certain areas moreso than others. The broader answer of "always" fit the relatively broad question.
    I'm in agreement with this statement. It's not safe to assume that if someone is deemed credible/reliable that they are adept at all aspects of life. But if I'm right in assuming that in that context Abbie meant reliable in terms of socionics knowledge, then she'd probably be right to want a more concrete answer.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

  13. #13
    Executor MatthewZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    TIM
    Ne-LII
    Posts
    800
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arctures View Post
    I'm in agreement with this statement. It's not safe to assume that if someone is deemed credible/reliable that they are adept at all aspects of life. But if I'm right in assuming that in that context Abbie meant reliable in terms of socionics knowledge, then she'd probably be right to want a more concrete answer.
    But even then, he could have various degrees of reliability relating to Model A, various subtype theories, VI, etc.

  14. #14
    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    everywhere at once
    Posts
    8,449
    Mentioned
    203 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewZ View Post
    But even then, he could have various degrees of reliability relating to Model A, various subtype theories, VI, etc.
    That too. Specificity is key I suppose.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

  15. #15
    Currently God Brilliand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Nevada
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    4,246
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arctures View Post
    That too. Specificity is key I suppose.
    I don't think that I could have given a straight answer for anything less than "ArchonAlarion said this, is he reliable?". Besides the general discussion that you just had, Archon is a smart man prone to strange ideas; he could easily make a brilliant statement and a huge mistake in the same sentence.



    LII-Ne

    "Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
    - Blair Houghton

    Johari

  16. #16
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,983
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don't really relate to the secondo mindset...
    What does it mean to you to have a special Fi ish connection with another person if not that you trust the person more than you trust any other person, and how this does not entail that you put the "bar" for investing trust in any random person very high so that there can be a significant difference in trust in the first place? Is there a chance that you are ENFj?

  17. #17
    crazedrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    moon
    Posts
    4,885
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    it is more that alpha dictates acceptance and gamma dictates rejection. saying alpha accepts the crap and gamma discriminates against the good is overstepping. it's true in cases
    INTp

  18. #18
    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Spain
    TIM
    ILE (ENTp)
    Posts
    4,866
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    Not sure if this is entirely right, but let's throw it out here:

    Alpha: trusting and accepting everyone until given reason not to

    Gamma: trusting and accepting no one without good reason


    Both lead to individualistic mindsets with no regard to groups despite that they are opposites.
    Very good.

    I'd like to add that, IMO, Gammas tend to pay attention to the background of a person ("oooh, he's a Doctor/Rich/a famous politician") and accept him because of that and alphas tend to assess personal traits of the people (kind/funny...) and ignore what gammas care about.
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

  19. #19
    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Spain
    TIM
    ILE (ENTp)
    Posts
    4,866
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I don't really relate to the secondo mindset...
    I've noticed some Ni-ENTjs are really kind wth strangers whereas others are not
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

  20. #20
    ._. Aiss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    TIM
    IEI
    Posts
    2,015
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    I'd like to add that, IMO, Gammas tend to pay attention to the background of a person ("oooh, he's a Doctor/Rich/a famous politician") and accept him because of that and alphas tend to assess personal traits of the people (kind/funny...) and ignore what gammas care about.
    Isn't it the difference between aristocratic and democratic?

    Aristocratic: Their initial attitude to another person is influenced by their attitude to the group they see the person as belonging to.

    Democratic: Form their relationships/attitudes toward other persons based on the latter's own individual characteristics, not with base on their relationships to groups of any kind, nor on their relationships to representatives of such groups.

  21. #21
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,983
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I've noticed some Ni-ENTjs are really kind wth strangers whereas others are not
    That's the thing about ENTjs. On the surface they are kind, enthusiastic and positive people. On a deeper level they are like their duals: critical, negative, not easy to satisfy. They spend less time and effort on this latter mindset, but it's still integral to what they are. Depending on what state you find them in, their appearance can wildly vary.

  22. #22
    Éminence grise mikemex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Third Planet
    TIM
    IEE-Ne
    Posts
    1,631
    Mentioned
    37 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Sounds like the difference between merry and serious. Last week I asked Brilliand whether ArchonAlaron was a reliable source, and he wouldn't give me a straight answer, just "Sometimes." "Sometimes" is no help. In my mind, people are either credible or not, and it doesn't change unless the person changes drastically.
    Individual traits doesn't change over time but what we do is affected by our environment. So even if we are honest by trait, for example, given the proper circumstances we will get corrupted. Aristocrats are driven by idealists and ideals are not directly aplicable to reality. Idealists (and their ST duals) do believe in "pure" stuff, such as good, evil, etc. but things are not as clear cut in the real world.
    [] | NP | 3[6w5]8 so/sp | Type thread | My typing of forum members | Johari (Strengths) | Nohari (Weaknesses)

    You know what? You're an individual, and that makes people nervous. And it's gonna keep making people nervous for the rest of your life.
    - Ole Golly from Harriet, the spy.

  23. #23

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    106
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    i've heard gamma used to describe the USA and the UK, and associated with capitalism...
    if gamma inclines itself to capitalism...
    alpha inclines towards...?

    slightly off topic, but while we're talking about social-political structures, what kind of society was the one depicted in 'The Beach'?

  24. #24
    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Spain
    TIM
    ILE (ENTp)
    Posts
    4,866
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by xixi View Post
    i've heard gamma used to describe the USA and the UK, and associated with capitalism...
    if gamma inclines itself to capitalism...
    alpha inclines towards...?

    slightly off topic, but while we're talking about social-political structures, what kind of society was the one depicted in 'The Beach'?
    I've always seen UK as gamma quadra (cold, serious or even harsh) and USA as alpha quadra (fun-loving, accepting of everybody: after all, USA is a nation made by immigrants; furthermore, USA has accepted millions of scientists throughout the last century: most of these scientist were despised in Europe or wherever). Anyway, stereotypes suck, but we can spot some traits shared by a whole nation...
    Last edited by 1981slater; 01-19-2010 at 11:27 AM.
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

  25. #25
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    UK
    TIM
    SLE-Ti
    Posts
    9,169
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    And how about Beta and Delta democracy while we're at it?
    Haha
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

  26. #26
    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    POOPLAIR
    TIM
    Alpha NT 5w4 so/sx
    Posts
    4,399
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    socialism.
    OPERATION POOPLAIR

    Now conscripting, for more information come here: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...48#post1003048

  27. #27
    expired Lotus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    TIM
    Se/Ni sx/sp
    Posts
    4,494
    Mentioned
    99 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    *head-pat* i love grumpy anarchists.
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

  28. #28
    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    POOPLAIR
    TIM
    Alpha NT 5w4 so/sx
    Posts
    4,399
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    *head-pat* i love grumpy anarchists.
    OPERATION POOPLAIR

    Now conscripting, for more information come here: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...48#post1003048

  29. #29
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    UK
    TIM
    SLE-Ti
    Posts
    9,169
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    I've always seen UK as gamma quadra (cold, serious or even harsh) and USA as alpha quadra (fun-loving, accepting of everybody: after all, USA is a nation made by immigrants; furthermore, USA has accepted millions of scientists throughout the last century: most of these scientist were despised in Europe or wherever). Anyway, stereotypes suck, but we can spot some traits shared by a whole nation...
    At the bottom of this page, they talk about macrotypes, and the English are seen as LSE and the Americans are seen as LIE.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

  30. #30
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    TIM
    D-LSI-Ti 1w9 sp/sx
    Posts
    11,586
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I don't really relate to the secondo mindset...
    Gee, I wonder why.

  31. #31
    Executor MatthewZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    TIM
    Ne-LII
    Posts
    800
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    socialism.
    I've spent hours debating against socialism, mind you.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •