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    Default A Ti Thing?

    I recently witnessed a heated argument between my friend (I think he may be an ISTj) and his girlfriend where he jealously exclaimed "I know how guys think. The only reason your guy friends want to hang out with you is to get in your pants!" It was said in such a matter-of-fact way that I believe he sees no value in non-romantic female friends. What strikes me as weird is that I can see how he can think this way (and find it hard not to think that way myself) and am wondering if this has anything to do with "Logic of the Relations"

    Am I completely off?
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    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    Lol yep and it's funny


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    An EIE once told me that girls have two ladders... the "friends" ladder and the "potential mate" ladder, and they see the people of the opposite sex at different places on those ladders. He claimed that guys only have one ladder...

    Peter says that's complete nonsense though, that a girl can be a purely platonic friend.
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    I have plenty of platonic friendships with women. Sounds like an idiot thing.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    Joy that is ladder theory... The Ladder Theory

    Pretty hilarious stuff and honestly imo, for the most part TRUE. Gilly I believe men and women can have platonic friendships to be sure, but these only occur under special circumstances ... either a) you are both in relationships (happy ones) or b) you really find the other person ugly.

    Otherwise ... there's always that lingering spark of what if? Or sexual tension... all the male friends I used to have I know wanted to fuck me or would fuck me if given the chance, plain and simple. But that's cause they're guys and that's what guys minds are like. You can be friends and supress it and whatnot, but it's just there.

    Would you rather be friends with an attractive or unattractive person if given the choice? Hmm...


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    Joy that is ladder theory... The Ladder Theory
    That... is really ridiculous to me. But if people want to think of themselves as machines where money goes in and sex comes out (or goes in, as it were), or vice versa, fine by me.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

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    Sally: So you're saying that a man can be friends with a woman he finds unattractive.
    Harry: No, you pretty much want to nail them, too.
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    The best way to never score with a woman is to show too much interest in her.
    Isn't this also true with men?
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    Sounds stupid, I definitely have female friends I don't think about having sex with. (This doesn't mean that if I was single and they wanted to, I would refuse - I wouldn't, but that's not the point) Of course I also have females friends that I find really attractive...but that wasn't the point either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    Isn't this also true with men?
    Right, because a hot girl asking to fuck a guy is going to get turned down. *pats joy on the head*

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    Ladder theory is sad, but true.
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    The flaw in the ladder theory is that it assumes that all men with eventually break when clearly some men are much more breakable than others.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drommel View Post
    Right, because a hot girl asking to fuck a guy is going to get turned down. *pats joy on the head*
    I don't think hot guys get turned down that much either, unless they are really excessively direct.

    Ladder theory is fucking bullshit, I would have never have had a girlfriend there was any truth to it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drommel View Post
    Right, because a hot girl asking to fuck a guy is going to get turned down. *pats joy on the head*
    A hot girl who shows a guy too much attention may become increasingly less attractive to him though.
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    ESIs and LSIs are both rather strict with their judgements, taking forever to see things another way. Ne-PoLR.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux View Post
    Gilly I believe men and women can have platonic friendships to be sure, but these only occur under special circumstances ... either a) you are both in relationships (happy ones) or b) you really find the other person ugly.
    c) it's an internet-based friendship

    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux View Post
    Otherwise ... there's always that lingering spark of what if? Or sexual tension... all the male friends I used to have I know wanted to fuck me or would fuck me if given the chance, plain and simple. But that's cause they're guys and that's what guys minds are like. You can be friends and supress it and whatnot, but it's just there.
    All men think with their anatomy, sure; some think with their stomachs though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    A hot girl who shows a guy too much attention may become increasingly less attractive to him though.
    Men find sluts attractive and usually like them. They just don't respect them.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Is it really so hard to maintain a distance with someone you're attracted to? One of my best friends and I have an understood dynamic that we've kept for years now.

    We're great friends, but we also look for deep, meaningful connections in our relationships above all else. Sometimes, you just know that you'd be incompatible in a full-fledged relationship but can maintain a friendship.
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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux View Post
    Joy that is ladder theory... The Ladder Theory

    Pretty hilarious stuff and honestly imo, for the most part TRUE. Gilly I believe men and women can have platonic friendships to be sure, but these only occur under special circumstances ... either a) you are both in relationships (happy ones) or b) you really find the other person ugly.

    Otherwise ... there's always that lingering spark of what if? Or sexual tension... all the male friends I used to have I know wanted to fuck me or would fuck me if given the chance, plain and simple. But that's cause they're guys and that's what guys minds are like. You can be friends and supress it and whatnot, but it's just there.

    Would you rather be friends with an attractive or unattractive person if given the choice? Hmm...
    See, the thing that bugs me is that people claim that women never have any sexual tension with men they consider "just friends?" Horse shit. Sexual tension exists in basically any male-female relationship where potential attraction exists. Just because a guy wants to fuck you, doesn't mean he doesn't think of you as a friend. Are you saying you never think about fucking any of your guy friends? If so then they are probably all ugly. Bottom line is, if you have a friend who is hot, I don't care whether you're a guy or a girl: you're gonna think about fucking them.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola's Avatar
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    The last time I had sexual tension with a friend I found attractive it was over pretty quickly

    Just sayin'
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    Woman on the whole seem much less likely to go through with it.
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    Are you kidding? It's excruciatingly difficult if the attraction is mutual. It's my most helpless weakness. The wires from my brain totally sever themselves and stop working. Guess we all have our own unique Achilles' heels, little mushy spots, where people can reach through and flip you inside out.
    I'm with you.

    I have to keep working on that one.
    Nah. It's only a problem if you're already with someone else. If you're not, then enjoy it for all it's worth.
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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Maybe I'm just a massive anomaly. Most of my female friends have at least THOUGHT about fucking me, I know that and I have thought about fucking most of them, at least considered the possibility, but that doesn't make our relationships any less platonic. If there is major sexual tension there, then something will probably happen, but otherwise life basically goes on.

    Most of you people sound like animals to me.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    Are you kidding? It's excruciatingly difficult if the attraction is mutual. It's my most helpless weakness. The wires from my brain totally sever themselves and stop working. Guess we all have our own unique Achilles' heels, little mushy spots, where people can reach through and flip you inside out. I have to keep working on that one.
    Huh. I think I've suddenly discovered what a Super-ego relation is really about

    Now we need a Se-Role to start a thread on how hard it is to become a self-starter so that you guys can talk about how effortless that is
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    I can control myself around women. And it's very easy for me to make myself seem very socially undesirable, so I've never had any of the problems in this thread.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    this part made me laugh:

    The girl has two choices at this point: she can let him on the ladder and all is well, or, more likely, she can kick him in the head, and off the ladder. If you look you'll see that below the ladder is the Abyss(what was it Nietzsche said about a man being on a rope stretched over an Abyss?....well it's worse than he thought; there is no rope.) So the man falls into the Abyss.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
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    I've been waiting for you Satan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    Men find sluts attractive and usually like them. They just don't respect them.

    And usually use them. Not like. Use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    A hot girl who shows a guy too much attention may become increasingly less attractive to him though.
    True. But then she's not a hot girl. She's just a needy attentive bitch.

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    what is essential is invisible to the eye fox's Avatar
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    Do guys really think about having sex with their ugly/plain looking female friends? Please tell me this isn't true.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    Do guys really think about having sex with their ugly/plain looking female friends? Please tell me this isn't true.
    Only the ones who meet my standards; otherwise, there is no sexual tension.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    I've been waiting for you Satan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    Do guys really think about having sex with their ugly/plain looking female friends? Please tell me this isn't true.
    I think it's kind of like do you think about eating furniture. The hungrier you are the more and more things can look like food. But really it's because you're delusional and tripping on hypoglycemia. And objects are shifting into other objects.

    Still - no one would really eat furniture unless they were psychotic. But different people have different standards of what's considered edible. And yeah, when you're real hungry canned food tastes a hell of a lot better than when you're not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    I think it's kind of like do you think about eating furniture. The hungrier you are the more and more things can look like food. But really it's because you're delusional and tripping on hypoglycemia. And objects are shifting into other objects.

    Still - no one would really eat furniture unless they were psychotic. But different people have different standards of what's considered edible. And yeah, when you're real hungry canned food tastes a hell of a lot better than when you're not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coolanzon View Post
    All men think with their anatomy, sure; some think with their stomachs though.
    I feel like what I said there was corrupted, somehow. Anyway, point proven.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolanzon View Post
    I feel like what I said there was corrupted, somehow. Anyway, point proven.
    You need to take more drugs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    You need to take more drugs.
    Cyproterone acetate, Nexium, amoxycillin.

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    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    I don't see how any of the dissenters towards Ladder Theory have said anything actually that goes against or disproves it ... um... wha???

    Of course females have sexual tension with their male friends... when was it suggested that this doesn't happen? In the theory? Really? I thought it did... eh. And of course you can think of someone as a friend while still wanting to fuck them... Also, some people CAN control themselves better than others -- but again, the tension still exists and everyone has a breaking point.

    Well, my own personal theory states that platonic friendships between two single people can NOT exist. One will always want the other in a more than platonic way. The other person may or may not have to reciprocate though.


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    Hello...? somavision's Avatar
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    I found the ladder theory article a little cynical and somewhat bitter however I thought there was some truth in it, but also a lot of bitter bullshit about women banging bikers.

    I also feel it could be further elaborated.

    You could have a current ladder and future ladder.

    Jane is in a relationship with John, a steady, reliable and attractive middle manager. However she is close friends with James a devilishly handsome actor building a career in a competetive but potentially lucrative business.

    She stays frineds with James as she see's that he could potentially be a better partner than John, however until she has further evidnece of this, she won't risk leaving James.

    So James is a the top of the potential ladder whilst John is currently on top of the current ladder.

    Meanwhile James being a devillishly handsome actor is engaging in many casual to not so casual relationships, whilst he strengthens his career to a point where his place is guarantedd at the top of Janes ladder.

    James and Jane being good friends, often meet up and talk, they gauge and test the strength of each others current relations, their opinions towards them and their feelings for each other.

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    fyi, ladder theory sucks. You can often confuse women so that a girl doesn't know which ladder to put you on.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    I think I usually have men somewhere on both ladders?
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    oh man, greed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    I think I usually have men somewhere on both ladders?
    This is the problem I see with it--that this "shouldn't" happen. In my humble experience, relationships are much more fluid and less clear-cut and absolute than ladder theory lets on.
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    Don't get me wrong... I don't know where they on those ladders.
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