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Thread: Short Type Descriptions

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    Default Short Type Descriptions

    LII "Ideas will be realized from the unknown."
    Ti/Ne - Subjects mysteries of the world to thought. Highly reliant on their set of rules and standards. Seek to rationalize a world of mystery and unknown.
    Thinking - Constantly relates and understands objective reality as a structured system. Thoughts are built upon subjective assumptions, and objective facts may be disregarded in order to build overarching ideas that may have "just a few exceptions."
    Intuition - Consciously tries to understand observed mystery in the world, and subconsciously creates a strong sense of expectation for the unknown.
    Sensation - Sees what is readily observable as invasive and difficult to navigate as their mind is usually on the possible meanings of the world. They are sensitive to the affects of sensations on them and seek peace, so as to not feel overwhelmed.
    Feeling - Have difficulty listening to their sense of emotional attraction because of constant quantification of perceptions and weak ability to express emotions. Values people who can show them the emotional energy that can arise from the world.


    ILE "The vast unknown must be understood."
    Ne/Ti
    - Subject thoughts to the sense of mystery in the world. Desire to discover all mystery in the world. Guided by a want to understand all that there might be in the world.
    Intuition - Constantly sees a world of unknown potential and has a strong sense of wanting to discover these potentials. Expectation of the unknown is regarded as irrelevant since they want to discover or experience them instead of imagining what might be.
    Thinking - They consciously try to create understandings of their many observations and subconsciously come to many conclusions about objective facts about reality.
    Feeling - They most strongly use thought as a means to realize their focus on perception, and as a result are weakly able to come to feelings about them. They instead seek objects which they can directly give and recieve emotional energy.
    Sensation - Their constant focus on what could be in the world makes it very difficult to take reality for what it is. When someone can invoke sensations within them, they are relieved of their sensual desires without having to let go of their natural focus.


    ESE "Joy can only be reached through experience."
    Fe/Si
    - Subject experience to emotional state. Sensation is a primary source of emotional intensity. Guided by emotional expression but stay grounded in that which is readily observed and known.
    Feeling - Constantly focuses on emotions which can be produced from the world. Their own subjective feelings are repressed because they distract from energies from the outer world.
    Sensation - They consciously focus on how sensations affect their feelings, and will subconsciously interact directly with their environment.
    Intuition - Their heavily grounded focus leads to a very weak expectation for the unknown. They will subconsciously try to handle all unknown problems that might come their way.
    Thinking - Their constant focus on the emotional energy of the world distracts from facts that can be inferred from those objects. People who express intelligent conclusions about the world are impressive and useful.


    SEI "Experience is a joy to be had."
    Si/Fe
    - Subject emotional state to experience. Highly reliant on sensual experience. Intensity of emotion can only be fully expressed when enjoying sensual experience.
    Sensation - Constantly focus on how they are affected by sensations. The world that produces the affect is regarded as unimportant in comparison to the sensation itself.
    Feeling - They consciously focus on the emotional state they can produce as a result of their base function, and they subconsciously create a strong emotional connection with the objects of affection.
    Thinking - They are weakly aware of objective facts that can be inferred from the world. They instead rely heavily on their subjective opinions about reality.
    Intuition - Their focus on how sensations affect them causes a distraction from what they can expect from reality. When someone can help point out the unknown, they can prepare for potential problems.





    LSI "Ideas will be realized from reality."
    Ti/Se
    - Subjects what is readily observed to thoughts. Highly reliant on their set of rules and standards. Seek to rationalize all that is experienced.
    Thinking - Constantly relates and understands objective reality as a structured system. Thoughts are built upon subjective assumptions, and objective facts may be disregarded in order to build overarching ideas that may have "just a few exceptions."
    Sensation - They consciously use the world around them to come to rational understandings. Subconsciously they are intimately involved with the sensations of their environment and build a strong awareness of how they affect him.
    Intuition - They lack an awareness of the unknown of the world because of their focus on what is readily observed. They end up heavily reliant on their expectations of the way things will go.
    Feeling - Have difficulty listening to their sense of emotional attraction because of constant quantification of perceptions and weak ability to express emotions. Values people who can show them the emotional energy that can arise from the world.


    SLE "The whole of reality must be understood."
    Se/Ti
    - Subject thought to what is readily observed. Desire to experience the real world. Guided by a want to understand all that the world has to offer.
    Sensation - They focus most intently on the world around them. They enjoy interacting with and discovering objects of the world and have little patience for how the environment affects them.
    Thinking - They consciously try to create understandings of their many observations and subconsciously come to many conclusions about objective facts about reality.
    Feeling - They most strongly use thought as a means to realize their focus on perception, and as a result are weakly able to come to feelings about them. They instead seek objects which they can directly give and receive emotional energy.
    Intuition - They have a hard time seeing hidden meanings in the world and deeply appreciate someone who can help them understand what they can expect from the world.


    EIE "Joy can only be reached from the imagination."
    Fe/Ni
    - Subject expectation to emotional state. Imagination is a primary source of emotional intensity. Guided by emotional expression and trust expectations of opportunities.
    Feeling - Constantly focuses on emotions which can be produced from the world. Their own subjective feelings are repressed because they distract from energies from the outer world.
    Intuition - Their expectations are their strongest influence for feeling. Subconsciously they are directly involved with situations of the unknown and potential.
    Sensation - They are detached from the affects of sensations and the use of experience as a heavy influence. They instead rely heavily on what is readily observed and take sensation as little more than what it is.
    Thinking - Their constant focus on the emotional energy of the world distracts from facts that can be inferred from those objects. People who express intelligent conclusions about the world are impressive and useful.


    IEI "Imagination is a joy to be had."
    Ni/Fe
    - Subject emotional state to intuitive assumptions. Highly reliant on intuitive 'visions.' Intensity of emotion can only be fully expressed when engaging in idealism.
    Intuition - Constantly focus on their expectations. They are aware that not everything is certain, but they see the unknown as something easily predicted and so it is regarded as superfluous information.
    Feeling - They consciously focus on the emotional state they can produce as a result of their base function, and they subconsciously create a strong emotional connection with the objects of affection.
    Thinking - They are weakly aware of objective facts that can be inferred from the world. They instead rely heavily on their subjective opinions about reality.
    Sensation - The affects of sensation and the use of experience is hard to come to terms with. When someone can help them to focus on the immediate reality they can resume confidence in what goes on around them.
    Last edited by Azeroffs; 01-04-2010 at 08:25 AM.
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    ESI "Feelings will be realized from reality."
    Fi/Se
    - Subject what is readily observed to feelings. Highly reliant on their sense of like/dislike. Seek to harmonize all that is experienced.
    Feeling - They are in constant focus on their personal connection to reality. The expression of this feeling is seen as unnecessary and commonly cheapening of these personal feelings.
    Sensation - They consciously use the world around them to come to rational understandings. Subconsciously they are intimately involved with the sensations of their environment and build a strong awareness of how they affect him.
    Intuition - They lack an awareness of the unknown of the world because of their focus on what is readily observed. They end up heavily reliant on their expectations of the way things will go.
    Thinking - They have a hard time defining their feelings and placing words to them. They value someone who can clearly understand and express objective facts about them and other things which they attach feelings to. Truth about the world gives them a tangible understanding that allows them to handle the world without stepping out of their subjective feelings.


    SEE "Reality is a thing to be felt."
    Se/Fi
    - Subject feeling to what is readily observed. Desire to experience the real world. Guided by a want to enjoy all that the world has to offer.
    Sensation - They focus most intently on the world around them. They enjoy interacting with and discovering objects of the world and have little patience for how the environment affects them.
    Feeling - They focus consciously on their personal connection toward their perceptions. Subconsciously they become highly energetic and emotionally expressive toward objects of interest.
    Thinking - Their focus on feeling makes it difficult to break down their personal thoughts. They instead rely on objective facts to explain reality intelligently.
    Intuition - They have a hard time seeing hidden meanings in the world and deeply appreciate someone who can help them understand what they can expect from the world.


    ILI "The creations of the mind is beyond explainable truth."
    Ni/Te
    - Subjects objective fact to intuitive assumptions. Highly reliant on intuitive 'visions.' Views the world as inherently irrational and objective facts are those things which 'make sense.'
    Intuition - Constantly focus on their expectations. They are aware that not everything is certain, but they see the unknown as something easily predicted and so it is regarded as superfluous information.
    Thinking - Consciously, they make an effort to explain their irrational perception in an objectively factual way. Subconsciously, they build up an internally consistent understanding that is detached from the objective world.
    Feeling - Their focus on solidifying their perception drags away from their ability to interpret emotional stimulation. They build subjective sentiments but can't stimulate emotional energy.
    Sensation - The affects of sensation and the use of experience is hard to come to terms with. When someone can help them to focus on the immediate reality they can resume confidence in what goes on around them.


    LIE "Truth can only be reached in the mind."
    Te/Ni
    - Subject expectations to objective fact. Intuitive expectations are primary source of knowledge. Guided by objective ideals and trusting of expectations of opportunities.
    Thinking - Truths are thought of as part of the world and existing as separate from any individual. Highly systematized ideas that are seen as missing or contradicting objective reality are regarded as useless and unnecessary. A person's opinion is viewed as definitely wrong unless it is seen as reflecting reality.
    Intuition - Their expectations are their strongest influence for thought. Subconsciously they are directly involved with situations of the unknown and potential.
    Sensation - They are detached from the affects of sensations and the use of experience as a heavy influence. They instead rely heavily on what is readily observed and take sensation as little more than what it is.
    Feeling - Their focus on objective truth makes it hard to express themselves in a way that conveys emotion. They value greatly someone who expresses strong subjective sentiments to help better understand how people's feelings are affected by their actions.




    EII "Feeling will be realized from the unknown."
    Fi/Ne
    - Subject mysteries of the world to feeling. Highly reliant on their sense of like/dislike. Seek to harmonize all that is mysterious and unknown.
    Feeling - They are in constant focus on their personal connection to reality. The expression of this feeling is seen as unnecessary and commonly cheapening of these personal feelings.
    Intuition - Consciously comes to feelings about observed mystery in the world, and subconsciously creates a strong sense of expectation for the unknown.
    Sensation - Sees what is readily observable as invasive and difficult to navigate as their mind is usually on the possible meanings of the world. They are sensitive to the affects of sensations on them and seek peace, so as to not feel overwhelmed.
    Thinking - They have a hard time defining their feelings and placing words to them. They value someone who can clearly understand and express objective facts about them and other things which they attach feelings to. Truth about the world gives them a tangible understanding that allows them to handle the world without stepping out of their subjective feelings.


    IEE "The unknown is a thing to be felt."
    Ne/Fi
    - Subject feelings to mysteries of the world. Desire to discover all that is mysterious in the world. Guided by a want to enjoy all that could be in the world.
    Intuition - Constantly sees a world which is full of unknown potential and has a strong sense of wanting to discover these potentials. Expectation of the unknown is regarded as irrelevant since they want to discover or experience them instead of imagining what might be.
    Feeling - They focus consciously on their personal connections toward their perceptions. Subconsciously they become highly energetic and emotionally expressive toward objects of interest.
    Thinking - Their focus on feeling makes it difficult to break down their personal thoughts. They instead rely on objective facts to explain reality intelligently.
    Sensation - Their constant focus on what could be in the world makes it very difficult to take reality for what it is. When someone can invoke sensations within them, they are relieved of their sensual desires without having to let go of their natural focus.


    SLI "Experience is beyond explainable truth"
    Si/Te
    - Subjects all thought to what has been observed. Highly reliant on experience. Views the world as inherently irrational and objective facts are those things which have reoccurred in experience.
    Sensation - Constantly focus on how they are affected by sensations. The world that produces the affect is regarded as unimportant in comparison to the sensation itself.
    Thinking - Consciously, they make an effort to explain their irrational perception in an objectively factual way. Subconsciously, they build up an internally consistent understanding that is detached from the objective world.
    Feeling - Their focus on expressing their perception drags away from their ability to interpret emotional stimulation. They build subjective sentiments but can't stimulate emotional energy.
    Intuition - Their focus on how sensations affect them causes a distraction from what they can expect from reality. When someone can help point out the unknown, they can prepare for potential problems.


    LSE "Truth can only be reached through experience."
    Te/Si
    - Subject experience to objective fact. Observations are primary source of knowledge. Guided by objective ideals but grounded in what is readily observed and known.
    Thinking - Truths are thought of as part of the world and existing as separate from any individual. Highly systematized ideas that are seen as missing or contradicting objective reality are regarded as useless and unnecessary. A person's opinion is viewed as definitely wrong unless it is seen as reflecting reality.
    Sensation - They consciously focus on how sensations affect their thought, and will subconsciously interact directly with their environment.
    Intuition - Their heavily grounded focus leads to a very weak expectation for the unknown. They will instead attempt to handle all unknown problems that might come their way.
    Feeling - Their focus on objective truth makes it hard to express themselves in a way that conveys emotion. They value greatly someone who expresses strong subjective sentiments to help better understand how people's feelings are affected by their actions.
    Last edited by Azeroffs; 01-04-2010 at 08:33 AM.
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    Where is the source from?

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    my head

    criticism appreciated
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    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
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    I like it. I mostly like it 'cause it fits together and has symmetry and is therefore pretty, but I find it fairly accurate too, at least in a broad sense. At first I didn't like the characterization of Ne as concerned with the unknown and Ni as concerned with predictive power, but then I realized that you meant the unknown as in the future or knowledge/experience not yet attained, as opposed to the great big mysteries of the spirit, life, the universe, everything, etc. Then I was OK with it.

    Here are some things I find especially strong on first blush.

    ESI
    Fi/Se - Subject what is readily observed to feelings. Highly reliant on their sense of like/dislike. Seek to harmonize all that is experienced.
    SEE
    Thinking - Their focus on feeling makes it difficult to break down their personal thoughts. They instead rely on objective facts to explain reality intelligently.
    SLI
    Intuition - Their focus on how sensations affect them causes a distraction from what they can expect from reality. When someone can help point out the unknown, they can prepare for potential problems.
    SLE
    Intuition - They have a hard time seeing hidden meanings in the world and deeply appreciate someone who can help them understand what they can expect from the world.
    EIE
    Feeling - Constantly focuses on emotions which can be produced from the world. Their own subjective feelings are repressed because they distract from energies from the outer world.
    IEI
    Intuition - Constantly focus on their expectations. They are aware that not everything is certain, but they see the unknown as something easily predicted and so it is regarded as superfluous information.
    Also, I like the SLE theme description, because in the first chapter of the Gospel of John, the word translated "understood" in the King James Version can also be translated "conquered." Not important.


    Here are some things I find comparatively weak on first blush.

    ESI
    Thinking - They have a hard time defining their feelings and placing words to them. They value someone who can clearly understand and express objective facts about them and other things which they attach feelings to.
    (Ditto for the similar bit in the EII description).

    I associate placing words to feelings with emotional expression. It might be more apt to say something like external descriptions or clear definition or categorization or something like that. I don't understand how the "objective facts" have anything to do with "things which they attach feelings to." But that could be my lack of understanding operating here.

    LIE
    Feeling - They have a hard time being stimulated into emotional expression. They value greatly someone who expresses strong subjective sentiments to help better understand emotions.
    I don't know that this is entirely true. I think LIEs have a hard time expressing the emotions they want to express, and expressing them in a big, noticable way. Maybe a slight wording change? Also, the bit about subjective sentiments and understanding emotions is a little unclear in my opinion. Maybe something along the lines of "to help better understand people's feelings towards one another" or "to help better understand how actions affect people's feelings" or something like that.

    LSI
    Feeling - Have difficulty listening to their sense of emotional attraction because of constant quantification of perceptions and weak ability to express emotions. Values people who can show them the emotional energy spurred by the world. (Ditto for the similar bit in the LII description).
    "Emotional energy spurred by the world" is very unclear to me. I think the problem is in the word "spurred". Why not "that arises" or "that can be found in" instead?

    Also, i think you could afford to add one more sentence to both the LIE and the LSE Thinking descriptions in order to emphasize the differences between them, but maybe that's accounted for in the Te/Si and Te/Ni descriptions?
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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    Azeroffs's Avatar
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    Thanks for the feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    I associate placing words to feelings with emotional expression. It might be more apt to say something like external descriptions or clear definition or categorization or something like that. I don't understand how the "objective facts" have anything to do with "things which they attach feelings to." But that could be my lack of understanding operating here.
    Emotional expression, in the Fe sense, is not about putting words to feelings as I understand it. They may use words to express the emotion, but the emotion essentially comes out in a tone of voice. Often the words are meaningless and just used as a vessel for carrying the emotion. I associate it with "emotional energy" which is directly observable.

    Fi is closer to he common understanding of feelings. Having sentiments about things which is directly related to the subject and not viewed as separate from the self. When thinking these types are very attached to how they feel about things and Ti is associated with explaining these subjective sentiments which is hard because it is not a quantifiable thing. Truth about the world gives them a tangible understanding that allows them to handle the world without stepping out of their subjective feelings.

    I don't know that this is entirely true. I think LIEs have a hard time expressing the emotions they want to express, and expressing them in a big, noticable way. Maybe a slight wording change? Also, the bit about subjective sentiments and understanding emotions is a little unclear in my opinion. Maybe something along the lines of "to help better understand people's feelings towards one another" or "to help better understand how actions affect people's feelings" or something like that.
    I agree, I'll make the edit.

    "Emotional energy spurred by the world" is very unclear to me. I think the problem is in the word "spurred". Why not "that arises" or "that can be found in" instead?
    lol, I was thinking that too, but it seemed to work at the time.

    Also, i think you could afford to add one more sentence to both the LIE and the LSE Thinking descriptions in order to emphasize the differences between them, but maybe that's accounted for in the Te/Si and Te/Ni descriptions?
    I'll try to elaborate.

    edit:If you meant the difference between LSE/LIE that's accounted for by the sensation/intuition parts.
    Last edited by Azeroffs; 01-03-2010 at 09:32 PM.
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    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    [B]
    ILE "The vast unknown must be understood."

    Cool.

    Ne/Ti
    - Subject thoughts to the sense of mystery in the world. Desire to discover all mystery in the world. Guided by a want to understand all that there might be in the world.

    Sure.

    Intuition - Constantly sees a world which is different than it appears and has a strong sense of wanting to discover these potentials. Expectation of the unknown is regarded as irrelevant since they want to physically discover them instead of imagining what might be.

    What do you mean by "physically discover"? Most of my material comes from imagination and I'm quite satisfied continuing to generate mental content, even if it has no easy/accessible application or feasibility

    Thinking - They consciously try to create understandings of their many observations and subconsciously come to many conclusions about objective facts about reality.
    Feeling - They most strongly use thought as a means to realize their focus on perception, and as a result are weakly able to come to feelings about them. They instead seek objects which they can directly give and recieve emotional energy.
    Sensation - Their constant focus on what can be expected from the world makes it very difficult to take reality for what it is. When someone can invoke sensations within them, they are relieved of their sensual desires without having to let go of their natural focus.

    Nice.
    Overall, these are well done.
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    What do you mean by "physically discover"? Most of my material comes from imagination and I'm quite satisfied continuing to generate mental content, even if it has no easy/accessible application or feasibility
    I was questioning that myself. I think it might be more accurate to say that they want to realize the unknown through discovery or certainty, and so predictions/expectations are seen as lacking.
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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    I'll focus on the ones I know best.

    My own type:
    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    LII "Ideas will be realized from the unknown."
    Ti/Ne - Subjects mysteries of the world to thought. Highly reliant on their set of rules and standards. Seek to rationalize a world of mystery and unknown.

    Yep, that sounds about right.

    Thinking - Constantly relates and understands objective reality as a structured system. Objective facts are dismissed because perceptions are directly connected. Objective fact is used as a way to prove their ideas rather than to discover new ones.

    I'm not sure what "Objective facts are dismissed because perceptions are directly connected" means. I do my best to incorporate all objective facts into my systematic understanding of the world -- objective fact is the only way to prove whether my theories are correct or incorrect.

    Intuition - Consciously tries to understand observed mystery in the world, and subconsciously creates a strong sense of expectation for the unknown.

    Yup.

    Sensation - Sees what is readily observable as invasive and difficult to navigate as their mind is usually on the possible meanings of the world. They are sensitive to the affects of sensations on them and seek peace, so as to not feel overwhelmed.

    Excellent description, especially the Si part.

    Feeling - Have difficulty listening to their sense of emotional attraction because of constant quantification of perceptions and weak ability to express emotions. Values people who can show them the emotional energy spurred by the world.

    Good, although it falls a little short of capturing the feeling of how important Fe really is to LIIs. That could just be a limitation of the format, though.
    And, since as far as I know there aren't any ESEs around here at the moment to speak for themselves ():
    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    ESE "Joy can only be reached through experience."
    Fe/Si
    - Subject experience to emotional state. Sensation is a primary source of emotional intensity. Guided by emotional expression but stay grounded in that which is readily observed and known.

    Sounds about right.

    Feeling - Constantly focuses on emotions which can be produced from the world. Their own subjective feelings are repressed because they distract from energies from the outer world.

    Yes, especially the part about their own subjective feelings.

    Sensation - They consciously focus on how sensations affect their feelings, and will subconsciously interact directly with their environment.

    Right.

    Intuition - Their heavily grounded focus leads to a very weak expectation for the unknown. They will subconsciously act in a way that handles all unknown problems that might come their way.

    I would amend the final sentence to say "They will subconsciously try to act in a way...", since this is a weak function for ESEs.

    Thinking - Their constant focus on the emotional energy of the world distracts from facts that can be inferred from those objects. People who express intelligent conclusions about the world are impressive and useful.

    Yes, exactly.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    I'm not sure what "Objective facts are dismissed because perceptions are directly connected" means. I do my best to incorporate all objective facts into my systematic understanding of the world -- objective fact is the only way to prove whether my theories are correct or incorrect.
    Ti-base use their immediate surroundings or the unknown associated with those surroundings to create understandings about their perceptions. They make these connections in their mind and truth is perceived as depending upon perspective. They might come to strong conclusion about X being the best because of Y and Z. Often the Ys and Zs of their conclusions are based on subjective values that are taken for granted. Therefore they focus on logical consistency of personal ideals and opinions which are often rooted subconsciously in irrational assumption or subjective experiences.

    So... yeah I'll edit it, because it's not exactly right.


    Thinking - Constantly relates and understands objective reality as a structured system. Thoughts are built upon subjective assumptions, and objective facts may be disregarded in order to build overarching ideas that may have "just a few exceptions."
    better?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    ILI "The creations of the mind is beyond explainable truth."
    Ni/Te
    - Subjects objective fact to intuitive assumptions. Highly reliant on intuitive 'visions.' Views the world as inherently irrational and objective facts are those things which 'make sense.'
    Intuition - Constantly focus on their expectations. They are aware that not everything is certain, but they see the unknown as something easily predicted and so it is regarded as superfluous information.
    Thinking - Consciously, they make an effort to explain their irrational perception in an objectively factual way. Subconsciously, they build up an internally consistent understanding that is detached from the objective world.
    Feeling - Their focus on solidifying their perception drags away from their ability to interpret emotional stimulation. They build subjective sentiments but can't stimulate emotional energy.
    Sensation - The affects of sensation and the use of experience is hard to come to terms with. When someone can help them to focus on the immediate reality they can resume confidence in what goes on around them.
    This is simple, but it's definitely me. I don't know why you might see me as alpha NT with this understanding of the types. Seems like lots of people are getting way too much misinformation about ILIs in the first place, and this will sort of add the: "well I don't know if I agree with this, because polikujm relates and he's obviously not an ILI."

    So good job, anyhow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    This is simple, but it's definitely me. I don't know why you might see me as alpha NT with this understanding of the types. Seems like lots of people are getting way too much misinformation about ILIs in the first place, and this will sort of add the: "well I don't know if I agree with this, because polikujm relates and he's obviously not an ILI."

    So good job, anyhow.
    I didn't think you were ILI based on a vague vibe from posts on an online forum. Hardly an opinion that's worth anything. You very well could be ILI. You could be ESE for all I'm certain of.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    I didn't think you were ILI based on a vague vibe from posts on an online forum. Hardly an opinion that's worth anything. You very well could be ILI. You could be ESE for all I'm certain of.
    Well it's no big deal. I just think these certain couple of descriptions are good, with the comparison of the alpha NTs to the gamma NTs. Simple though. Me saying I fit with the ILI probably looks more like a compliment coming from me, than it does to you.

    And to be honest, people put way too much credit into on the surface vibes in a justification for, ie. being alpha. That's why nobody can explain to me why they think I am one, except for saying that I just remind them of one. It's a fairly insane phenomena.

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    I really like them overall. You might think about "being connected to" or "being personally connected to" rather than "felt" in the IEE and SEE descriptions. Unless, of course, they're taken to be near-synonyms anyway. To me, it seems that a connection is just a lot more meaningful and relevant than mere feeling; others might disagree.
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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    Ti-base use their immediate surroundings or the unknown associated with those surroundings to create understandings about their perceptions. They make these connections in their mind and truth is perceived as depending upon perspective. They might come to strong conclusion about X being the best because of Y and Z. Often the Ys and Zs of their conclusions are based on subjective values that are taken for granted. Therefore they focus on logical consistency of personal ideals and opinions which are often rooted subconsciously in irrational assumption or subjective experiences.

    So... yeah I'll edit it, because it's not exactly right.

    Thinking - Constantly relates and understands objective reality as a structured system. Thoughts are built upon subjective assumptions, and objective facts may be disregarded in order to build overarching ideas that may have "just a few exceptions."
    better?
    Yeah, I still have reservations. It still sounds like LIIs are just ignoring data to make their theories work. While LIIs may come up with their theories first, and then apply them to the evidence to see if they fit, they don't just ignore contradictory evidence -- on the contrary, it's the evidence that determines whether or not a theory is true. Personally, I don't feel comfortable until I can come up with a theory that explains all the evidence at hand, not just some of it.

    Are you assuming that "objective facts" = Te?

    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    I really like them overall. You might think about "being connected to" or "being personally connected to" rather than "felt" in the IEE and SEE descriptions. Unless, of course, they're taken to be near-synonyms anyway. To me, it seems that a connection is just a lot more meaningful and relevant than mere feeling; others might disagree.
    I agree. The word "feeling" has Fe-ish overtones.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    I agree with Chris, the "unknown" and "visions" is too vague, but it's pretty good over all.

    Some improvements I made for my type...

    EII "Feeling will be realized from the unknown."
    Fi/Ne - Subject mysteries of the world to feeling. Highly reliant on their sense of like/dislike. Seek to harmonize all that is mysterious and unknown.


    Fi/Ne- Subject to the world of human relations and ethics. Highly reliant on their sense of like/dislike. Seek to find potential in people and situations.

    Intuition - Consciously comes to feelings about observed mystery in the world, and subconsciously creates a strong sense of expectation for the unknown.

    Intuition- Consciously assesses the possibilities. Often possess an idealized standard and enjoys helping others reach their own potential

    Thinking - They have a hard time defining their feelings and placing words to them. They value someone who can clearly understand and express objective facts about them and other things which they attach feelings to. Truth about the world gives them a tangible understanding that allows them to handle the world without stepping out of their subjective feelings.

    Thinking- They have a hard time knowing how to accomplish tasks in the most efficient manner. Seek guidance from those who can accomplish tasks effectively. Require input on their productivity.
    Truthful information gives them a tangible understanding that allows them to handle the world without stepping out of their subjective feelings.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    Yeah, I still have reservations. It still sounds like LIIs are just ignoring data to make their theories work. While LIIs may come up with their theories first, and then apply them to the evidence to see if they fit, they don't just ignore contradictory evidence -- on the contrary, it's the evidence that determines whether or not a theory is true. Personally, I don't feel comfortable until I can come up with a theory that explains all the evidence at hand, not just some of it.
    Evidence proves the theory, but it is not required for a theory to exist. Ti is responsible most heavily on the creation of theories. If there is nothing to disprove it, then it can be considered true at least for the time. Te instead find truths from the world and may become skeptical when there is no evidence to proposed "facts".

    Are you assuming that "objective facts" = Te?
    Te = objective thought, as in not involving the subject. Thoughts are factual.

    Ti = Subjective thought, as in not involving the object. Thoughts are explanatory.

    Te without Ti just focuses on fact about the world or workings of the world, but doesn't really build anything. Ti without Te focus on connection of ideas, but doesn't really reflect the world.

    Ti + Pe - how can I make sense of the outer world?
    Te + Pi - How does the outer world work as I see it?

    similar but essentially different approaches.
    Admittedly, my understanding of the difference isn't really clear.
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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    Well it's no big deal. I just think these certain couple of descriptions are good, with the comparison of the alpha NTs to the gamma NTs. Simple though. Me saying I fit with the ILI probably looks more like a compliment coming from me, than it does to you.

    And to be honest, people put way too much credit into on the surface vibes in a justification for, ie. being alpha. That's why nobody can explain to me why they think I am one, except for saying that I just remind them of one. It's a fairly insane phenomena.
    Yeah I agree. That's what I was trying to say. All I meant was that my opinion didn't really mean anything because it was so vague. Sorry, I worded it strangely.

    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    I really like them overall. You might think about "being connected to" or "being personally connected to" rather than "felt" in the IEE and SEE descriptions. Unless, of course, they're taken to be near-synonyms anyway. To me, it seems that a connection is just a lot more meaningful and relevant than mere feeling; others might disagree.
    I like that, I'll make the change

    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    I agree with Chris, the "unknown" and "visions" is too vague, but it's pretty good over all.

    Some improvements I made for my type...

    EII "Feeling will be realized from the unknown."
    Fi/Ne - Subject mysteries of the world to feeling. Highly reliant on their sense of like/dislike. Seek to harmonize all that is mysterious and unknown.


    Fi/Ne- Subject to the world of human relations and ethics. Highly reliant on their sense of like/dislike. Seek to find potential in people and situations.

    Intuition - Consciously comes to feelings about observed mystery in the world, and subconsciously creates a strong sense of expectation for the unknown.

    Intuition- Consciously assesses the possibilities. Often possess an idealized standard and enjoys helping others reach their own potential

    Thinking - They have a hard time defining their feelings and placing words to them. They value someone who can clearly understand and express objective facts about them and other things which they attach feelings to. Truth about the world gives them a tangible understanding that allows them to handle the world without stepping out of their subjective feelings.

    Thinking- They have a hard time knowing how to accomplish tasks in the most efficient manner. Seek guidance from those who can accomplish tasks effectively. Require input on their productivity.
    Truthful information gives them a tangible understanding that allows them to handle the world without stepping out of their subjective feelings.

    I purposefully wanted to stay away from "possiblities" because of how vague it is. I think it's more accurate to say Ne is a focus on what is unknown while Se is a focus on what is known. This "unknown" is what Ne sees and is considered a "possibility." If Ne saw possibilities, it could see anything at any given moment.

    Productivity is only a small and indirect part of Te. Te focuses on how things work which does translate, in part, to productivity, but it isn't a fundamental part of it. So, I want to stay away from "productivity" as well.

    I'll see if I can revise "mystery" "unknown" and "visions" to make it seem less mystical.
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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    Evidence proves the theory, but it is not required for a theory to exist. Ti is responsible most heavily on the creation of theories. If there is nothing to disprove it, then it can be considered true at least for the time. Te instead find truths from the world and may become skeptical when there is no evidence to proposed "facts".



    Te = objective thought, as in not involving the subject. Thoughts are factual.

    Ti = Subjective thought, as in not involving the object. Thoughts are explanatory.

    Te without Ti just focuses on fact about the world or workings of the world, but doesn't really build anything. Ti without Te focus on connection of ideas, but doesn't really reflect the world.

    Ti + Pe - how can I make sense of the outer world?
    Te + Pi - How does the outer world work as I see it?

    similar but essentially different approaches.
    Admittedly, my understanding of the difference isn't really clear.
    I think I've pinpointed the problem that's been bugging me. It has to do with the use of the word "fact".

    Te is external dynamics of objects. Ti is external statics of fields. What they both have in common is that they are both external, that is, they are both explicit and observable. In other words, both Te and Ti information can be considered "factual". Te is observable facts about the changing states of things, while Ti is observable facts about the unchanging relationships between things.

    This is especially clear when considering the difference between Alpha NTs and Beta STs. While Alpha NTs do a lot of theorizing, as we've been talking about, Beta STs focus on observable reality. An LSI detective, for example, takes observable facts about individual pieces of evidence, and looks for observable, factual relationships between them. At no point could you say than an LSI's logic "doesn't reflect the world", any more than you could say that an SLI's Te "doesn't reflect the world". It is the Alpha NT's Ne which focuses on implicit ideas about the world; his Ti, like Te, is focused on explicit facts about the world.

    So basically what I'm saying is that both Te and Ti focus on observable facts, just different kinds of observable facts.

    Also, I think the use of "subjective" and "objective" in this context is confusing, because it's hard to tell if they're meant as defined by socionics, or as defined by common usage (i.e., "objective" meaning "factual, non-emotional").
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    I think I've pinpointed the problem that's been bugging me. It has to do with the use of the word "fact".

    Te is external dynamics of objects. Ti is external statics of fields. What they both have in common is that they are both external, that is, they are both explicit and observable. In other words, both Te and Ti information can be considered "factual". Te is observable facts about the changing states of things, while Ti is observable facts about the unchanging relationships between things.

    This is especially clear when considering the difference between Alpha NTs and Beta STs. While Alpha NTs do a lot of theorizing, as we've been talking about, Beta STs focus on observable reality. An LSI detective, for example, takes observable facts about individual pieces of evidence, and looks for observable, factual relationships between them. At no point could you say than an LSI's logic "doesn't reflect the world", any more than you could say that an SLI's Te "doesn't reflect the world". It is the Alpha NT's Ne which focuses on implicit ideas about the world; his Ti, like Te, is focused on explicit facts about the world.

    So basically what I'm saying is that both Te and Ti focus on observable facts, just different kinds of observable facts.

    Also, I think the use of "subjective" and "objective" in this context is confusing, because it's hard to tell if they're meant as defined by socionics, or as defined by common usage (i.e., "objective" meaning "factual, non-emotional").
    I'm actually using Carl Jung's descriptions of the functions as subjective/objective thinking. I've found that socionic's definition of the elements to be infinitely confusing and hard to piece together and solidify. It might be bad descriptions, but I'm not sure.

    I agree, "fact" is the wrong term, but I have a hard time understanding the difference. It just seems that if you are being objective in thought, it is with regard to the influence of the world upon the self. Subjective thoughts are without outside influence of any kind, but it must be used to make sense of the irrational world (Pe).

    I think the best way to describe Ti in comparison to Te is the way of describing Fi in comparison to Fe. Ti is essential the connection of ideals in the mind that is mere imagery or symbols. These thoughts, once expressed, are no longer within the realm of Ti.

    I'm not sure, I'll probably come back to it tomorrow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Jung
    1. Thinking

    When describing extraverted thinking, I gave a brief characterization of introverted thinking, to which at this stage I must make further reference. Introverted thinking is primarily orientated by the subjective factor. At the least, this subjective factor is represented by a subjective feeling of direction, which, in the last resort, determines judgment. Occasionally, it is a more or less finished image, which to some extent, serves as a standard. This thinking may be conceived either with concrete or with abstract factors, but always at the decisive points it is orientated by subjective data. Hence, it does not lead from concrete experience back again into objective things, but always to the subjective content, External facts are not the aim and origin of this thinking, although the introvert would often like to make it so appear. It begins in the subject, and returns to the subject, although it may [p. 481] undertake the widest flights into the territory of the real and the actual. Hence, in the statement of new facts, its chief value is indirect, because new views rather than the perception of new facts are its main concern. It formulates questions and creates theories; it opens up prospects and yields insight, but in the presence of facts it exhibits a reserved demeanour. As illustrative examples they have their value, but they must not prevail. Facts are collected as evidence or examples for a theory, but never for their own sake. Should this latter ever occur, it is done only as a compliment to the extraverted style. For this kind of thinking facts are of secondary importance; what, apparently, is of absolutely paramount importance is the development and presentation of the subjective idea, that primordial symbolical image standing more or less darkly before the inner vision. Its aim, therefore, is never concerned with an intellectual reconstruction of concrete actuality, but with the shaping of that dim image into a resplendent idea. Its desire is to reach reality; its goal is to see how external facts fit into, and fulfil, the framework of the idea; its actual creative power is proved by the fact that this thinking can also create that idea which, though not present in the external facts, is yet the most suitable, abstract expression of them. Its task is accomplished when the idea it has fashioned seems to emerge so inevitably from the external facts that they actually prove its validity.

    But just as little as it is given to extraverted thinking to wrest a really sound inductive idea from concrete facts or ever to create new ones, does it lie in the power of introverted thinking to translate its original image into an idea adequately adapted to the facts. For, as in the former case the purely empirical heaping together of facts paralyses thought and smothers their meaning, so in the latter case introverted thinking shows a dangerous tendency [p. 482] to coerce facts into the shape of its image, or by ignoring them altogether, to unfold its phantasy image in freedom. In such a case, it will be impossible for the presented idea to deny its origin from the dim archaic image. There will cling to it a certain mythological character that we are prone to interpret as 'originality', or in more pronounced cases' as mere whimsicality; since its archaic character is not transparent as such to specialists unfamiliar with mythological motives. The subjective force of conviction inherent in such an idea is usually very great; its power too is the more convincing, the less it is influenced by contact with outer facts. Although to the man who advocates the idea, it may well seem that his scanty store of facts were the actual ground and source of the truth and validity of his idea, yet such is not the case, for the idea derives its convincing power from its unconscious archetype, which, as such, has universal validity and everlasting truth. Its truth, however, is so universal and symbolic, that it must first enter into the recognized and recognizable knowledge of the time, before it can become a practical truth of any real value to life. What sort of a causality would it be, for instance, that never became perceptible in practical causes and practical results?

    This thinking easily loses itself in the immense truth of the subjective factor. It creates theories for the sake of theories, apparently with a view to real or at least possible facts, yet always with a distinct tendency to go over from the world of ideas into mere imagery. Accordingly many intuitions of possibilities appear on the scene, none of which however achieve any reality, until finally images are produced which no longer express anything externally real, being 'merely' symbols of the simply unknowable. It is now merely a mystical thinking and quite as unfruitful as that empirical thinking whose sole operation is within the framework of objective facts. [p. 483]

    Whereas the latter sinks to the level of a mere presentation of facts, the former evaporates into a representation of the unknowable, which is even beyond everything that could be expressed in an image. The presentation of facts has a certain incontestable truth, because the subjective factor is excluded and the facts speak for themselves. Similarly, the representing of the unknowable has also an immediate, subjective, and convincing power, because it is demonstrable from its own existence. The former says 'Est, ergo est' ('It is ; therefore it is') ; while the latter says 'Cogito, ergo cogito' (' I think ; therefore I think'). In the last analysis, introverted thinking arrives at the evidence of its own subjective being, while extraverted thinking is driven to the evidence of its complete identity with the objective fact. For, while the extravert really denies himself in his complete dispersion among objects, the introvert, by ridding himself of each and every content, has to content himself with his mere existence. In both cases the further development of life is crowded out of the domain of thought into the region of other psychic functions which had hitherto existed in relative unconsciousness. The extraordinary impoverishment of introverted thinking in relation to objective facts finds compensation in an abundance of unconscious facts. Whenever consciousness, wedded to the function of thought, confines itself within the smallest and emptiest circle possible -- though seeming to contain the plenitude of divinity -- unconscious phantasy becomes proportionately enriched by a multitude of archaically formed facts, a veritable pandemonium of magical and irrational factors, wearing the particular aspect that accords with the nature of that function which shall next relieve the thought-function as the representative of life. If this should be the intuitive function, the 'other side' will be viewed with the eyes of a Kubin or a Meyrink. If it is the feeling-function, [p. 484] there arise quite unheard of and fantastic feeling-relations, coupled with feeling-judgments of a quite contradictory and unintelligible character. If the sensation-function, then the senses discover some new and never-before-experienced possibility, both within and without the body. A closer investigation of such changes can easily demonstrate the reappearance of primitive psychology with all its characteristic features. Naturally, the thing experienced is not merely primitive but also symbolic; in fact, the older and more primeval it appears, the more does it represent the future truth: since everything ancient in our unconscious means the coming possibility.

    Under ordinary circumstances, not even the transition to the 'other side' succeeds -- still less the redeeming journey through the unconscious. The passage across is chiefly prevented by conscious resistance to any subjection of the ego to the unconscious reality and to the determining reality of the unconscious object. The condition is a dissociation-in other words, a neurosis having the character of an inner wastage with increasing brain-exhaustion -- a psychoasthenia, in fact.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    I purposefully wanted to stay away from "possiblities" because of how vague it is. I think it's more accurate to say Ne is a focus on what is unknown while Se is a focus on what is known. This "unknown" is what Ne sees and is considered a "possibility." If Ne saw possibilities, it could see anything at any given moment.
    Possibilities= potential, that's pretty much what Ne deals with. It isn't about what's definitely there, but what "could" be, it's a possibility

    The "Unknown" could deal with any IE that someone is weak in just as "known" can be applied to a strong IE

    Productivity is only a small and indirect part of Te. Te focuses on how things work which does translate, in part, to productivity, but it isn't a fundamental part of it. So, I want to stay away from "productivity" as well.

    I'll see if I can revise "mystery" "unknown" and "visions" to make it seem less mystical.
    Well I agree that it's not the whole of Te, it's what Fi seeks in logic, which is what I thought these descriptions were about....?

    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    I'm actually using Carl Jung's descriptions of the functions as subjective/objective thinking. I've found that socionic's definition of the elements to be infinitely confusing and hard to piece together and solidify. It might be bad descriptions, but I'm not sure.
    Maybe this is where the misunderstanding is coming from, since Jung's descriptions are not the same as Augusta's, hence they don't really work well when discussing Socionics theory
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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Personally I think any approach this simplistic is bound to do no more than sew confusion.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Personally I think any approach this simplistic is bound to do no more than sew confusion.
    Oh, good. Sewing confusion sounds like a good thing.

    Just as long as it doesn't sow confusion.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Sorry, but this is bullshit.

    LSE "Truth can only be reached through experience."
    That's just common sense. Even IEIs believe that. I know I do. That isn't Te. Also LSEs are probably the most business-like, hands-off of all the types so they aren't going to be getting their own hands dirty, but trying to direct and order everybody around to work for them. That's why their nicknames are the 'Director.' This in general sounds much more like what an SF valuing extrovert would think, anyway. But even that is based on crude stereotypes.

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    I disagree. I don't think they're bad or too simple. Nothing is too simple.

    They are simple, which is uniquely understandable to this line of derivation. They also seem to fit the stereotypes pretty well. So long as you accept criticism, change and advancement, which I don't see as a problem.

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    I think there is a nice elegance to this. I especially liked the catchphrase bits.

    The IEE one, "The unknown is a thing to be felt." I thought fitted me well.
    I often describe myself as someone who swims in a sea of uncertainty, so I related to it personally and the descriptions.

    As a whole, the descriptions are the sort of thing I could put in my pocket and carry around with me.

    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    An introverted information element occurs when a need for distinction outweighs a need for materialization.
    I like this too, is it from a source or is it from your head?

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    I'm sorry but this is just a fucking hyperspeed railway to non-functional oversimplification. It compromises every ounce of theoretical basis that this already-shady theory is held up by. Please stop now before everyone gets brainwashed.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I'm sorry but this is just a fucking hyperspeed railway to non-functional oversimplification. It compromises every ounce of theoretical basis that this already-shady theory is held up by. Please stop now before everyone gets brainwashed.
    Gilly, your posts are as constructive and helpful as your personality is pleasant.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    I actually tend to think simplicity is more conducive to understanding. But I don't like Ti.
    It seems to me that newcomers could read simple definitions like these and get an overall "feel" for what the types and functions are supposed to represent and what differentiates them, then improve their understanding and refine their internal set of definitions by reading the more complex and technically accurate ones. If they start with the more complicated descriptions, they're prone to information overload.

    I don't think that the OP is pretending that these descriptions are the "end-all, be-all" source of information on the types.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    Gilly, your posts are as constructive and helpful as your personality is pleasant.
    Well I hate to just be a downer, but I really don't see any usefulness for "short" type descriptions; I think the whole idea is dangerous and lazy.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  31. #31
    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Well I hate to just be a downer, but I really don't see any usefulness for "short" type descriptions; I think the whole idea is dangerous and lazy.
    And yet, a number of people posting in this thread seem to think these short type descriptions are in some way useful. Had you phrased your initial disagreement more diplomatically, you could have engendered a productive discussion about the relative benefits and disadvantages of such short-form descriptions.

    While I understand the temptation to react angrily out of frustration at the perceived foolishness of others (and have succumbed to such on occasion myself), it really does not help further anyone's understanding of socionics, and ultimately gets boring after a while.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    And yet, a number of sheeple posting in this thread seem to think these short type descriptions are in some way useful. Had you phrased your initial disagreement more diplomatically, you could have engendered a productive discussion about the relative benefits and disadvantages of such short-form descriptions.
    The only advantage is to make typing faster, which is only going to make people sloppier than we already are. They sound nice, and that's about it.

    While I understand the temptation to react angrily out of frustration at the perceived foolishness of others (and have succumbed to such on occasion myself), it really does not help further anyone's understanding of socionics, and ultimately gets boring after a while.
    I'm not here for your fucking entertainment; I'm telling you what I think.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  33. #33
    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I'm not here for your fucking entertainment
    Really? Oh man, I'm glad you pointed that out, I never would have realized! I'm so embarrassed!
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    That's just common sense. Even IEIs believe that. I know I do. That isn't Te. Also LSEs are probably the most business-like, hands-off of all the types so they aren't going to be getting their own hands dirty, but trying to direct and order everybody around to work for them. That's why their nicknames are the 'Director.' This in general sounds much more like what an SF valuing extrovert would think, anyway. But even that is based on crude stereotypes.
    It's not meant to be something specific to the type, just something that gives an impression of the way the type behaves, and maybe a core belief/motivator. Also, I'm not saying somehow Te is tied in closer to truth. Just that Te focuses on what is considered to be objectively true. "Truth" implies some higher fact that is separate from the self, while "thought" is tied in closer to subjectivity which is why I used it for Ti.

    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    It seems to me that newcomers could read simple definitions like these and get an overall "feel" for what the types and functions are supposed to represent and what differentiates them, then improve their understanding and refine their internal set of definitions by reading the more complex and technically accurate ones. If they start with the more complicated descriptions, they're prone to information overload.

    I don't think that the OP is pretending that these descriptions are the "end-all, be-all" source of information on the types.
    This is exactly my intention.

    Also, I like simplicity. I hate when I'm talking to someone who doesn't know a lot about socionics, and I say "Oh they're probably type X" and they say "what is type X like?" I always sigh and think where do I start..? My point being that exact explanations are useless in some circumstances. These are relatively short-winded explanations for such cases.
    Last edited by Azeroffs; 01-10-2010 at 07:22 PM.
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    About Ti...

    I was thinking that Ti isn't really meant to explain, but rather to understand. Priority #1 is to be able to solidify something within one's mind. The problem comes in trying to prove or explain it.

    Te holds on to many facts that could be arbitrary or even contradicting because any one of them might be true, and "who am I to say what truth is?" Te's strength comes in when thinking about how to navigate reality, knowing what can't be known and seeking proof as top priority. Ti on the other hand wants to come to conclusions and reach answers, and often does, but risks truth within reality. Ti's strength comes in when trying to navigate thoughts, knowing what can be known and seeking clarity/consistency as top priority.
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    Removed at User Request

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    Yes... and now involve the fact that Ne types are inherently also strong in Ni and everything about your pretty little theory on how the two are different falls apart.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    Quit bluffing. You're not interesting, you're not useful and you're definitely not smart.

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    these are very good

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