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Thread: Aspergers related to socionics type?

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    Default Aspergers related to socionics type?

    ....certain personality types have a much more similar resemblance to the Aspergers phenotype than others. for instance, i can imagine an INTj who has Aspergers, but not an ESFj with Aspergers. the later seems like a conflation of opposing, mutually exclusive entities, like a round square or something - not possible.

    INTjs seem to be the socionics type that have the closest resemblance to the Aspergers phenotype. followed perhaps by ISTp...
    my question is whether individuals with Aspergers can be classified into socionics types, given that they do not have 'normal' brain functioning?

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    I know an INFP guy at my work who has all the traits of a light autistic. I don't know whether it might be called asperger.

    He walks on his toes. He's unnecessary honest. Makes contact with others in good manners though in a strange way. He's above average intelligent. Has had 1 girlfriend in 10 years or so, for one day. He takes everything litteraly, so sometimes you have to add 'i was just joking at that' or 'that was meant sarcastic'. Has a good memory, knows postal codes of customers etc. Makes many mistakes at doing his job.

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    Maybe he's ILI, not IEI. IEI has creative which is responsible for understanding people's emotional state and emotional atmosphere in environment. and asperger is an oxymoron.
    ESTp

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    Ni and Ti correlate the most to what I know of aspergers. Fe correlates the least.

    EDIT: It is nevertheless possible to have someone with aspergers of any type, I suspect, and besides that, an IEI, having Ni as their first function, could just be overdependent on Ni and ignore Fe.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveANiceLife View Post
    Maybe he's ILI, not IEI. IEI has creative which is responsible for understanding people's emotional state and emotional atmosphere in environment. and asperger is an oxymoron.
    You really think you can type someone you've never met, using a questionable assumption, vs me who has worked with him the last 5 years...?

    He's totally focussed on people, but just doesn't understands them quite well. Ever thought about that possibility...

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    in order to properly diagnose aspergers you need to interact with a clear case of it and not read categorical descriptions of it. it seems to be quickly becoming overdiagnosed
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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveANiceLife View Post
    and asperger is an oxymoron.
    I kind of agree.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    I kind of agree.
    There are lot's of things in this world that you would expect to not occur, that don't seem logical etc.

    Yet, they occur...

    That could mean that your understanding is flawed at a certain part. Which is in this case not unthinkable, since I assume none of us is an expert on asperger or autism, and the relation of information elements in regard to autism are unknown. I rather rely on what I actually see, then what one expects to see.

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    Aspergers is a problem of not assuming a subjective component in a person who has it. Seeing people as objects without also seeing them as "souls".

    Very few such people actually exist. Most people's shadow functions do, quite frankly, see people in this way. An aspergers sufferer, in contrast, observes the subjective element of a person by means of their shadow. This is why the syndrome tends to abate after the sufferer reaches adulthood.

    For an aspergers person to not see the "person" in another at all would require a problem of inability to assimilate to the shadow.

    The aspergers condition may be modeled with Model B-contra.

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    Ass Burgers is just what people call introverted emo teenagers who are too intelligent for most people to socialize with them so they label them as having problems just cause they are weird or different. When people behave 'strange' instead of understanding that person and what is going on their head cause we don't know about how the brain works fully yet, we label them as having 'something wrong with them' because we can't self-reflect and look at how the real problem is within us and our judgments of that person.

    Any psychological 'disorder' is the same thing. The society is built to be an extroverted consumer and if you are not that then you are going to look at as perhaps 'sick' in certain ways. After all nobody really cares about who is really decent or not, or what people's feelings are or not. They just care that those in power, stay in power. Who cares if some dumb weird outcast kids get killed in the crossfire, the public image of the powerful politician narcissists and world governments are in tact and will stay in tact. They may say that they care or have some fleeting sense of sympathy and empathy for such supposed 'ills' that do not really exist, but in the grand scheme of things? It's doing nothing to shake anything up. Aww you safe little disney sheltered middle class mama's boys faggots. How sheeple you are! Now go and BUY THIS while I absorb all ur hopes and dreams and social imprints to make my own self stronger and while I pretend that I'm on your side.

    RAWR.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    Ass Burgers is just what people call introverted emo teenagers who are too intelligent for most people to socialize with them so they label them as having problems just cause they are weird or different. When people behave 'strange' instead of understanding that person and what is going on their head cause we don't know about how the brain works fully yet, we label them as having 'something wrong with them' because we can't self-reflect and look at how the real problem is within us and our judgments of that person.

    Any psychological 'disorder' is the same thing. The society is built to be an extroverted consumer and if you are not that then you are going to look at as perhaps 'sick' in certain ways. After all nobody really cares about who is really decent or not, or what people's feelings are or not. They just care that those in power, stay in power. Who cares if some dumb weird outcast kids get killed in the crossfire, the public image of the powerful politician narcissists and world governments are in tact and will stay in tact. They may say that they care or have some fleeting sense of sympathy and empathy for such supposed 'ills' that do not really exist, but in the grand scheme of things? It's doing nothing to shake anything up. Aww you safe little disney sheltered middle class mama's boys faggots. How sheeple you are! Now go and BUY THIS while I absorb all ur hopes and dreams and social imprints to make my own self stronger and while I pretend that I'm on your side.

    RAWR.
    Emo, "intelligent"? hmmm

    In my opinion Aspergers is a a real condition since those afflicted with it carry similar physical characteristics and behaviors(hey, kinda like type, or emo, i guess!). Some people are wrongly labeled, sure. But I don't think that those labeled as having aspergers even remotely resemble emo. At least not where I come from.

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    I think asperger's or autism, and especially autism, is not type related. If you suffer from asperger's or autism, it is very likely that a portion of your brain is defunct. In other words, an autistic person could very well be a flaming ESFj if he or she has had that part of his or her brain fully healed and restored.

    On the other hand, these two mental conditions seem to have a biased correlation to Ti. Mentally absorbed and focused, ignoring people and emotions. That is exactly what Ti is about. Also, I would like to propose that it is also very correlated to Te. Both sufferers of asperger's an autism are able to recall facts and figures very quickly, using them in a Te manner as well as in a Ti manner. (e.g. an asperger's sufferer who is obsessed with building car models and an autistic person who is able to calculate complex calculus in a blink of an eye).

    Or just to summarize, we cannot say that asperger's and autism correlates to a person's sociotype, but the manifestations of those disorders correlate to the two thinking functions, Ti and Te.
    She is wise
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    lovelier than
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    dreams larger
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    and does not
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    Because everything
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    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CeruleanFlame View Post
    I think asperger's or autism, and especially autism, is not type related.
    Yes.

    I remember talking to a person who works with autists. (catagory mentally 2 years old).

    She said something like, the main cause is that they have a lack of oxygen at birth. That would mean that any type could get autism. Or am I misinformed?

    btw what's up with all these SLE's suddenly coming out of nowhere showing up in this thread? :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    I kind of agree.
    =l
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    Quote Originally Posted by CeruleanFlame View Post
    I think asperger's or autism, and especially autism, is not type related. If you suffer from asperger's or autism, it is very likely that a portion of your brain is defunct. In other words, an autistic person could very well be a flaming ESFj if he or she has had that part of his or her brain fully healed and restored.

    On the other hand, these two mental conditions seem to have a biased correlation to Ti. Mentally absorbed and focused, ignoring people and emotions. That is exactly what Ti is about. Also, I would like to propose that it is also very correlated to Te. Both sufferers of asperger's an autism are able to recall facts and figures very quickly, using them in a Te manner as well as in a Ti manner. (e.g. an asperger's sufferer who is obsessed with building car models and an autistic person who is able to calculate complex calculus in a blink of an eye).

    Or just to summarize, we cannot say that asperger's and autism correlates to a person's sociotype, but the manifestations of those disorders correlate to the two thinking functions, Ti and Te.
    I disagree that there is a correlation.

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    i may be dating an ILE right now and he's pretty sperg.
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    My ILE brother seems to have aspergers.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

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    What if all some asperger's kid did was asperger all day about aspergers. That would be kind of funny actually.

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    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola's Avatar
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    FFS. I know someone who actually has this. It is not a popularised pop disorder. It is not type related. Perhaps, PERHAPS, certain traits associated with this disorder may resemble certain socionics elements but that is where the resemblance ends. This is ridiculous - I wouldn't assess this in terms of Downs or Schizophrenia or any other random disease. Chicken pox - is it type related? My eye colour - is it type related? FGS no, it is a genetic permutation that presents in a certain set of phenotypical and/or mental responses, possibly with some small influence from environmental factors. Popularising Aspergers just shows utter disrespect and/or misunderstanding of the condition and in all honesty, threads like this make me want to slap people.

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    From Khola: 'certain traits associated with this disorder may resemble certain socionics elements but that is where the resemblance ends.'

    I agree.

    'Popularising Aspergers just shows utter disrespect and/or misunderstanding of the condition and in all honesty, threads like this make me want to slap people.'

    Misunderstanding yes, but disrespect no. You need to respect the fact that some people are stupid and are constantly seeing correlation and causation where there are none. That includes me.

    But I did not see a correlation between functions in this case. Rather, I used the wrong word. There is no correlation between the thinking functions and AS. Instead, the word 'resemblance' from your first quote was slightly more accurate.

    For the reasons stated in my first post, I would say that there is a resemblance. However, this resemblance has no meaning due to lack of information, which is ultimately attributed to general human stupidity.

    In other words, my entire post is actually a waste of time.

    From Huginn, whom I respect because he speaks from knowledge, 'Because there are already a diverse pathophysiology, I feel comfortable speculating that socionic types are only related to AS in appearance. '

    This on the other hand, makes good sense, if you remove the first clause because of strange phrasing and medical jargon.

    Finally, Khola, if you do slap someone, please take a vid.
    She is wise
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    beautiful within
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    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CeruleanFlame View Post
    From Khola: 'certain traits associated with this disorder may resemble certain socionics elements but that is where the resemblance ends.'

    I agree.

    'Popularising Aspergers just shows utter disrespect and/or misunderstanding of the condition and in all honesty, threads like this make me want to slap people.'

    Misunderstanding yes, but disrespect no. You need to respect the fact that some people are stupid and are constantly seeing correlation and causation where there are none. That includes me.

    But I did not see a correlation between functions in this case. Rather, I used the wrong word. There is no correlation between the thinking functions and AS. Instead, the word 'resemblance' from your first quote was slightly more accurate.

    For the reasons stated in my first post, I would say that there is a resemblance. However, this resemblance has no meaning due to lack of information, which is ultimately attributed to general human stupidity.

    In other words, my entire post is actually a waste of time.

    From Huginn, whom I respect because he speaks from knowledge, 'Because there are already a diverse pathophysiology, I feel comfortable speculating that socionic types are only related to AS in appearance. '

    This on the other hand, makes good sense, if you remove the first clause because of strange phrasing and medical jargon.

    Finally, Khola, if you do slap someone, please take a vid.
    Ok, we're on the same page then

    I'd never actually slap someone, I'm a total pussy
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    Clearly I have gender stereotypes, Huginn.

    It is not so much the mechanism of the disease as it is the physical manifestations of physiological disruptions as a result of the disease. Pardon me for being anal.

    The more you write, the better you get. Focus on what you want to express. As you keep practicing, the how will start to tag along much easier.

    I have been slapped before Khola, by two girls, one right after the other.
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CeruleanFlame View Post
    Clearly I have gender stereotypes, Huginn.

    It is not so much the mechanism of the disease as it is the physical manifestations of physiological disruptions as a result of the disease. Pardon me for being anal.

    The more you write, the better you get. Focus on what you want to express. As you keep practicing, the how will start to tag along much easier.

    I have been slapped before Khola, by two girls, one right after the other.
    What did you do?
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



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    I cheated on both of them.

    I was also acting, but it still counts right? :wink:
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola's Avatar
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    Hahahaha! I was ready to slap you myself until I read that last line! I don't think that counts...unless you want it to!
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



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    the neural mechanisms that underlie Aspergers and the formation of type may very well be interrelated, especially considering the intergrated nature of the brain. in the case of AS, abnormalities such as reduced connectivity are broad reaching - they affect the entire neural network, so it stands to reason that AS is going to have an effect on the development of personality.

    if aspergers sufferers appear to resemble certain types but not others (as they indeed do), it is not unreasonable to conclude that the AS condition predisposes individuals to certain functional profiles/types. whether model A manifests in AS individuals in the same way as it does in neurotypicals is unclear (probably it doesn't). i speculate that there are differences in the interaction between functions as individuals develop (reduced interaction perhaps, with certain functions impaired to begin with). repeated failures in social situations as a result of AS may cause individuals to become socially isolated. this, along with other environmental cues associated with AS may in turn also have an affect on the strength and ordering of various functions.

    that AS sufferers use some functions better than others seems to be the case when we examine their behaviour/functional differences. they can be remarkably good at pattern recognition, logical deduction, and understanding complex systems (Ne, Ti); some have semi-photographic memories and heightened vision/hearing/smell etc (Si?, mentally manipulating visual objects). but generally all are poor at recognising emotional and cognitive states in others according to non-verbal cues (Fi) and expressing their own thoughts and feelings in a socially appropriate manner (Fe). to give a concrete example of this, a conversation with an AS friend:

    friend: so what are your plans for tomorrow?
    me: i have to take my mum to see a lung specialist actually. she's been coughing a lot lately, and we're afraid it might be the beginning of lung cancer that could have spread from her breast cancer. she's just had radiotherapy.
    friend: oh, fair enough.

    individuals with the visual subtype of AS (the above friend is an example) have a weakened ability to abstract. for instance, they cannot do algebra since they have great difficulty comprehending that the letters stand for numbers. this seems to imply directly weakened Ni and Ne. a direct result of this weakened ability to abstract is that for such individuals to be aware of an object/person/event/situation, that thing/person needs to be in the AS sufferer's physical presence. in other words, they have an impaired ability to imagine what they have not experienced. and what they do not experience repeatedly or continuously, they will forget/fail to recall/keep in mind. this means that they cannot imagine scenarios that are verbalized to them in the same way that neurotypicals can. in the above conversation, my friend does not recognize what i must be thinking/feeling in my situation because he has never been through that situation before. he cannot and does not imagine it, and as a result, he does not empathize or sympathize as a neurotypical would. this isn't to say that he's a bad guy. he's a great person, with a big heart and a lot of love to give, but he just isn't great at 'cottoning on' to what the other person's thinking or feeling.

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    Now bee, of course you knew I wanted it to.

    If you ever drop by Singapore, drop me a line as well. We can chat over a cup of coffee, and you can slap me there.

    xixi seems to have a point. But I think it all depends on whether or not you see asperger's as the result of the lack of healthy brain development and/or brain damage, or if you see asperger's as the result of a particular specimen of sociotype becoming overly obsessed with his or her own ego function and not developing the super ego functions, possibly due to a poor, or rather, unsuitable family environment (e.g. a whole bunch of conflictors, supervisors, quasi-identity etc.).

    Btw, is reading non-verbal cues exclusively Fi? I am more inclined to think that it is an intertwining of both ethical functions. Fe notices non-verbal cues, while Fi is a basis to judge what those cues mean.

    Also, just to expand, Fe's emotional expression requires real Fi internal emotions before it can actually work well and be convincing. I guess, if my understanding is correct, we'll be able to judge if you're a Fe ego or Fi ego if you're bored more with feeling your own emotions or noticing and expressing emotions respectively.

    Back to asperger's it seems that the whole ethical domain has been suppressed. The most likely reason would be the latter reason I stated above. I believe the former reason is the result of the latter.
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CeruleanFlame View Post

    xixi seems to have a point. But I think it all depends on whether or not you see asperger's as the result of the lack of healthy brain development and/or brain damage, or if you see asperger's as the result of a particular specimen of sociotype becoming overly obsessed with his or her own ego function and not developing the super ego functions, possibly due to a poor, or rather, unsuitable family environment (e.g. a whole bunch of conflictors, supervisors, quasi-identity etc.).

    Btw, is reading non-verbal cues exclusively Fi? I am more inclined to think that it is an intertwining of both ethical functions. Fe notices non-verbal cues, while Fi is a basis to judge what those cues mean.

    Also, just to expand, Fe's emotional expression requires real Fi internal emotions before it can actually work well and be convincing. I guess, if my understanding is correct, we'll be able to judge if you're a Fe ego or Fi ego if you're bored more with feeling your own emotions or noticing and expressing emotions respectively.

    Back to asperger's it seems that the whole ethical domain has been suppressed. The most likely reason would be the latter reason I stated above. I believe the former reason is the result of the latter.
    It's not exactly a question of belief...
    Aspergers is a brain disorder - people are born with it. There are organic abnormalities in the brain at birth. It is not a developmental order, that is, a disorder that requires certain environmental cues in order to form.

    I doubt that AS individuals become 'obsessed' in the way neurotypicals become obsessed...they can develop extremely intensive fascinations with esoteric subjects that grab their interest. also, many have OCD. their obsessions have a compulsive aspect. i suspect that their lack of awareness of other people and of themselves (of their place, of social expectations) plays a disinhibiting role in their compulsiveness. that is, they don't have the same inhibitions as normal ppl might b/c they lack awareness of social norms, and lack social instinct in general. i'm also inclined to think that the lack of connectivity in the brain plays a role in their tendency to stay concentrated on one thing for long periods of time. their less inclined to form abstract thoughts in the form of fantasies, daydream; more time and attention, more conscious space if you will, is focused on the known reality - their external world, and their subjective reactions to that world.

    reading cues is a reactive process. isn't Fe proactive, and Fi the reactive function?

    AS individuals can and often do feel strongly, and care deeply about others. In general, they are very loyal, trustworthy, honest ppl who try to be decent, fair, and giving in their interactions with others. it is reading cues, and mentally putting themselves in another's shoes that they are very bad at. so to say that 'their ethical domain has been suppressed' perhaps doesn't quite capture the exact nature of their deficit.

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    This is where I got my Fe info from: Socionics : Extraverted Ethics

    Also, I am actually more inclined now to believe that asperger's is not a birth defect, but a developmental disorder that is either acquired from childhood all the way back to early infant-hood or even in the mother's womb.

    Why do I say this? Have you ever been in an oppressive environment that inhibits all your natural inclinations, drives, and interests? How did you feel? Usually you get headaches accompanied with feelings of resentment or rejection. Imagine feeling like that (subconsciously or unconsciously) while you were being formed, being given birth to (a non beneficial sociotype's presence can easily cause one to feel such discomfort even without 'direct' contact or communication), and growing up. If you don't become slightly messed up (I'm not saying this to diss people, I'm just plainly stating things frankly), I'll be quite surprised. I know this because to some extent, I'm subject to that too. The reason why I do not have asperger's was because I was lucky enough to have a caring, though socionically unbeneficial family, intelligence that I did not deserve to possess, and relatively good looks that made people more attracted to me than repulsed to me. All these built on to the me now, that to some extent, is attractive enough to some people to make me feel good about myself. People with asperger's got the shorter end of the stick and spiraled downwards due to lack of support, sometimes to the extent of almost being unable to get out of the rut (I still think it's possible, but extremely difficult and requiring of extreme outside help). I love these guys, because despite all the crap they face, they still love others, though they can't show it.

    Enough of the rant and back to the theory. This kinds of oppressive environment will probably result in actual physical defects in the brain that lead to emotional inhibition and preference for mental activities. It sounds extremely ILI to me in all biased honesty.

    In fact, were an ILI to be completely uninhibited with his ego block (plus perhaps, lacking a whole bunch of Fi), he will exhibit asperger-like symptoms. This is in fact the thing that a couple of SLE's were talking about in the beta forum section - the apparent lack of social interest of a clearly Ni-leading sociotype, either ILI or IEI (probably very young, so the preference for and or skill of her extraverted function has yet to develop).

    I agree though, that merely stating that their ethical functions have been suppressed does not fully capture the nature of their deficit. I hope my further elaboration does, although I would say that some parts are slightly esoteric to some people, but it sounds like common sense to me. I'll be glad to hear if you have differing opinions. You are very knowledgeable on this subject since you have first-hand experience, which I respect.
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    The DSM is not the best tool for understanding personality. It can be a starting point, but the fact of the matter is that these disorders are defined as a spectrum -- there is lots of data but very little theory behind it. It's stylish now to use "scales" which assume a "gradient" of a certain factor, without actually understanding the peculiars of any given point on the gradient nor even why the factor becomes increasingly exaggerated as you go up the scale. Instead there is the pretense of an "agreement" which is supposed to invoke awe and reverence whether it is real or something made up through arm twisting and coercion. But to really understand personality, you MUST use dichotomies because personality is about preferences first, behavior second.

    The only factor I've been able to discern that all Aspies have in common -- and I have known people who have Aspergers, because they are "around" -- is a sense of removal from the subjective. In essence it's the disposition to be a manipulator of people. Not in the sense of taking advantage, mind you, but of simply seeing people as objects without "souls". Imagine observing the mechanical side of the functions without seeing any of the personal side of them, and that's what Aspergers autism is like -- or so it seems to me. Personally I think Aspergers' diagnosed individuals know best what the syndrome is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khola View Post
    FFS. I know someone who actually has this. It is not a popularised pop disorder. It is not type related. Perhaps, PERHAPS, certain traits associated with this disorder may resemble certain socionics elements but that is where the resemblance ends. This is ridiculous - I wouldn't assess this in terms of Downs or Schizophrenia or any other random disease. Chicken pox - is it type related? My eye colour - is it type related? FGS no, it is a genetic permutation that presents in a certain set of phenotypical and/or mental responses, possibly with some small influence from environmental factors. Popularising Aspergers just shows utter disrespect and/or misunderstanding of the condition and in all honesty, threads like this make me want to slap people.

    *HEADDESK*
    I couldn't have said it better myself. This thread is ridiculous. People who claim to have aspergers just to explain away their social awkwardness make me want to cut shit and kill people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    The only factor I've been able to discern that all Aspies have in common -- and I have known people who have Aspergers, because they are "around" -- is a sense of removal from the subjective. In essence it's the disposition to be a manipulator of people. Not in the sense of taking advantage, mind you, but of simply seeing people as objects without "souls". Imagine observing the mechanical side of the functions without seeing any of the personal side of them, and that's what Aspergers autism is like -- or so it seems to me.
    Hmmm, check out this guy...He's the closest to 'normal' case of Aspergers i've ever seen...


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    This is Aspergers.


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    Wrong Way Ticket, I think you misread her post. She did not mean to blast peeps with Asperger's. Rather, she is sympathetic.

    However, there are those who falsely diagnose themselves with Asperger's to, just as you say it, explain away their social awkwardness.

    Also, I am suddenly inclined to believe that Asperger's is a completely reversible condition. Just to qualify, it is as reversible as it is possible to drag the moon towards the earth. It is 1) too time consuming 2) too resource consuming 3) too stressful for sufferer. These of course, compounds the older you are. I am guessing that above the age of 5, it may be practically impossible to completely reverse Asperger mindset and thinking patterns, but for certain, vast improvements can be made if proper techniques are used. Up to a certain point, it is possible that close to an infinite amount of energy will be necessary to completely cure one of Asperger's.

    To clarify, it may seem that by using the terms 'Asperger mindset and thinking patterns', I am of the standpoint that Asperger is the fault of the person. My view is this: it may or may not be.

    It may, if the person does not seek help or is willing to help himself or herself to the fullest. Now before you jump at me, I'd say that it is not always the best to help yourself to the fullest due to the fact that you require and extreme unrewarding amount of energy to fully perfect any task. But if you do not help yourself to the extent that you are able to, and if it is a simply a matter of will, then it is your fault for being lazy. If it is a matter of misinformation, which it usually is, then it is the fault of he or she who conceals such information.

    It may not be, because the root cause of Asperger's is so far, not certainly known. As such, I cannot make any conclusions at this point, other than that I know nothing about this for certain.

    Finally, let me share with you something that I saw on a youtube comment. Based on an intuitive logical calculation involving very few variables, I would say that the commenter was not lying.

    ddviolinist:
    "Indeed, there are some that have been "turned around." One of my best friends in California had her son treated with speacial methods from 3 years old upward. He shows zero signs of autism now. None. But, it doesn't work for everyone. They got lucky. But, indeed, some people are cured with these methods. It has to do with retraining the brain from a VERY young age. It was a grueling process and would occur at all hours of the day and/or night, never allowing a learning moment to slip by"

    If you hate relatively intellectual rants that borders on excessive self-indulgence, then please ignore the following.

    The variables involved to decide whether of not she was lying were

    1) what does he or she stand to gain? (assuming she is lying, then most probably fame and money when people approach her for solutions, assuming also that she charges or stands to gain from the solutions proposed)

    2) if he or she stands to gain something, is that something valuable enough that one should resort to sneaky methods? (probably not, but there is a small chance that her 'autism healing' business will spark off a huge wave that may cause her to gain much)

    3) If so, then does the poster possess enough intelligence to pursue such a plan without being caught? (judging from the english, the commenter is probably too emotional to manipulate others through lying - either that or he or she is extremely brilliant, and soulless. I do not discount the latter possibility, but based on the fact that human behaviour is mostly consistent assuming lack of maliciousness, I would say that he or she is not lying. I assume lack of maliciousness.)
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
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    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    Up to a certain point, it is possible that close to an infinite amount of energy will be necessary to completely cure one of Asperger's.
    Are such thoughts really worth actually having? Is it really worth trying to understand how to do something that is impractical?

    "Indeed, there are some that have been "turned around." One of my best friends in California had her son treated with speacial methods from 3 years old upward. He shows zero signs of autism now. None. But, it doesn't work for everyone. They got lucky. But, indeed, some people are cured with these methods. It has to do with retraining the brain from a VERY young age. It was a grueling process and would occur at all hours of the day and/or night, never allowing a learning moment to slip by"
    This illustrates the profound dangers of using spectrum-level classifications. True Aspergers cannot be cured. Period. There is no such mechanism to turn signals into more capable brain cells. The individual you are talking about did not have Aspergers as Piaget describes it (that is, they are not "little professors"), or no treatment now available would be able to affect it.
    Last edited by tcaudilllg; 01-13-2010 at 02:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    This is Aspergers.
    that was very interesting. if it wasn't for his eyes, i might not have picked up that he had AS....there were hwv some other things that stuck out as a little offbeat...

    - his argument very much centered on the line of reasoning: 'it's happened many times in the past and worked. therefore we should make it standard /legalize it'. he bases his beliefs about gun control on factual history/concrete events.

    - vocally, his sentences sound 'run on'/unpunctuated. there is overall, little fluctuation in affect/tone. moreover, the affective fluctuations that exist sound somewhat contrived (strange considering that he's passionate about the issue). normal ppl just aren't that constant in their affectivity.

    - he gestures with a lack of self-consciousness. like his body's on autopilot or something...his body movements don't match his voice. his voice sounds 'at ease', but his body looks rehearsed/precisely controlled. the overall effect is that he looks like a smooth robot-man. an experienced presenter such as him shouldn't look so 'set' in precise gesturing (they should look looser, natural).

    i'd agree that being 'removed from the subjective' is one of the core symptoms of AS. from what i've seen, there's also a deficit in their imagination...but i can't quite put my finger on the exact nature of that deficit...it's like...situations they've seen before, they can bring to mind and mentally manipulate very well; but kinds of situations/things they've never come across - possibilities, unknowns - they don't think to entertain, and have difficulty imagining when such things are described verbally to them.

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    That thought was worth having. It basically means, don't go there. But at the same time, I'm saying that it is possible to reverse Asperger's to an exponentially decreasing extent the older the sufferer is.
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CeruleanFlame View Post
    That thought was worth having. It basically means, don't go there. But at the same time, I'm saying that it is possible to reverse Asperger's to an exponentially decreasing extent the older the sufferer is.
    Actually the reverse is true: the symptoms decline with age because the person's sense of subjectivity is "locked" in their shadow. They see people as being too sentimental to be responsive to the reality before them, and generally associate, I think, sentimentality with criminality. I need to develop this line of thought, so I'll come back to it.

    Here's a very famous individual with Aspergers.



    Aspies try to see the world as essentially mechanical. For this reason they make exceptional physicists and engineers.

    As for Alan Keyes, he doesn't develop new ideas because he is conservative. (which is unrelated to autism) Conservatives generally avoid creating new concepts and ideas.

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