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    Default On Using Reinin Dichotomies to Type... ?

    Hey again people.

    So upon further investigation of types, functions, information elements, quadras, etc., I attempted to read the Reinin dichotomies as a way of potentially figuring out my type... this totally confused me even MORE, however, as- after asking for VI help and getting pretty much unanimous ENFp and ENFj opinions- I was kinda leaning towards ENFp as my type...

    Then I read more about the quadras, did the tally method for the dichotomies, and came up with this:

    SEI: 5
    ILE: 5
    LSI: 3
    EIE: 3
    ESI: 3
    LIE: 5
    SLI: 5
    IEE: 3
    LII: 6
    ESE: 6
    IEI: 8
    SLE: 4
    ILI: 2
    SEE: 4
    EII: 4
    LSE: 6

    I chose farsighted, yielding, dynamic, emotivist, positivist, judicious, merry, result, and asking, and couldn't come to a decision on the democratic-aristocratic and tactical-strategic ones. This way, I had the most points for IEI. However, I also tried doing the method where you sort of highlight only the ones you feel really strongly about and for me, those were: yielding, emotivist, judicious, and merry. The only type that has all four of these is SEI (I think?). I'd never seriously considered that I could be a sensing type up until that point, but afterwards, I read up a little on the Alpha quadra and feel that I could fit in there as well.

    I read about all the dichotomies on Wikisocion, so I don't know how reliable that is but it was all I could really find on them. Also, where's the best place to find out more about the quadras? I think determining which one I identify best with is going to be my best bet at this point, lol.

    This stuff is seriously confusing. Does anyone ever REALLY know for sure (with absolutely no doubt/questioning whatsoever) what type they are?? Ahhhhhhhhhh I need help (help me? )! Well, if anyone could answer the above questions and/or give me some feedback on using the dichotomies to type oneself I would reaallllllly appreciate it. Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hotasphyxiation View Post
    Hey again people.

    So upon further investigation of types, functions, information elements, quadras, etc., I attempted to read the Reinin dichotomies as a way of potentially figuring out my type... this totally confused me even MORE, however, as- after asking for VI help and getting pretty much unanimous ENFp and ENFj opinions- I was kinda leaning towards ENFp as my type...

    Then I read more about the quadras, did the tally method for the dichotomies, and came up with this:

    SEI: 5
    ILE: 5
    LSI: 3
    EIE: 3
    ESI: 3
    LIE: 5
    SLI: 5
    IEE: 3
    LII: 6
    ESE: 6
    IEI: 8
    SLE: 4
    ILI: 2
    SEE: 4
    EII: 4
    LSE: 6

    I chose farsighted, yielding, dynamic, emotivist, positivist, judicious, merry, result, and asking, and couldn't come to a decision on the democratic-aristocratic and tactical-strategic ones. This way, I had the most points for IEI. However, I also tried doing the method where you sort of highlight only the ones you feel really strongly about and for me, those were: yielding, emotivist, judicious, and merry. The only type that has all four of these is SEI (I think?). I'd never seriously considered that I could be a sensing type up until that point, but afterwards, I read up a little on the Alpha quadra and feel that I could fit in there as well.

    I read about all the dichotomies on Wikisocion, so I don't know how reliable that is but it was all I could really find on them. Also, where's the best place to find out more about the quadras? I think determining which one I identify best with is going to be my best bet at this point, lol.

    This stuff is seriously confusing. Does anyone ever REALLY know for sure (with absolutely no doubt/questioning whatsoever) what type they are?? Ahhhhhhhhhh I need help (help me? )! Well, if anyone could answer the above questions and/or give me some feedback on using the dichotomies to type oneself I would reaallllllly appreciate it. Thanks!
    I'm LSI, I used to think I was INTx (and some people still do) because everyone assumes that if you are intelligent then you are intuitive, but that is not the case...people forget that you can process information with any IM element though they all have distinct advantages

    farsighted types plan ahead and are bad at improvising...they are all talk but are prone to screwing up at the moment of truth
    yielding types prefer to stay flexible but in my experience cannot make a stand when confronted
    dynamic types prefer patterns to concepts, they judge others and perceive themselves, are concerned with changing, are more conscious of knowledge/experience/empathy/time than possibilities/ethics/space/understanding, etc
    emotivists are not easily persuaded and are great at arousing emotions, either because they are thinking judgers (thinking base) or feeling perceivers (thinking PoLR)
    positivists are optimistic
    judicious types prefer to reason rather than decide, Introverted Sensing is concerned with changing qualia (perhaps while exploring reasons), Extroverted Intuition is concerned with using reasons to intuit others and brainstorm ideas
    merry types prefer systematic logic and emotional closeness to formality and enterprise, they also use subjective judgment rather than objective judgement
    result types see the world by induction, in discrete states rather than continuous progress, ends rather than means, allowing them to multi-task in a detached manner, they are supervised from Delta to Alpha, and IMO excel at offense and are driven by reward-based conditioning
    asking types prefer dialogue and do not hide the motive of speech

    FWIW I could definitely see you as SEI (perhaps more so than anything else),
    a lot of times they come off as extroverts and it would explain your intense Fe/Ne

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    Quote Originally Posted by hotasphyxiation View Post
    This stuff is seriously confusing. Does anyone ever REALLY know for sure (with absolutely no doubt/questioning whatsoever) what type they are??
    Sure

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huitzilopochtli View Post
    I'm LSI, I used to think I was INTx (and some people still do) because everyone assumes that if you are intelligent then you are intuitive, but that is not the case...people forget that you can process information with any IM element though they all have distinct advantages

    farsighted types plan ahead and are bad at improvising...they are all talk but are prone to screwing up at the moment of truth
    yielding types prefer to stay flexible but in my experience cannot make a stand when confronted
    dynamic types prefer patterns to concepts, they judge others and perceive themselves, are concerned with changing, are more conscious of knowledge/experience/empathy/time than possibilities/ethics/space/understanding, etc
    emotivists are not easily persuaded and are great at arousing emotions, either because they are thinking judgers (thinking base) or feeling perceivers (thinking PoLR)
    positivists are optimistic
    judicious types prefer to reason rather than decide, Introverted Sensing is concerned with changing qualia (perhaps while exploring reasons), Extroverted Intuition is concerned with using reasons to intuit others and brainstorm ideas
    merry types prefer systematic logic and emotional closeness to formality and enterprise, they also use subjective judgment rather than objective judgement
    result types see the world by induction, in discrete states rather than continuous progress, ends rather than means, allowing them to multi-task in a detached manner, they are supervised from Delta to Alpha, and IMO excel at offense and are driven by reward-based conditioning
    asking types prefer dialogue and do not hide the motive of speech

    FWIW I could definitely see you as SEI (perhaps more so than anything else),
    a lot of times they come off as extroverts and it would explain your intense Fe/Ne
    Yeah, I have to admit that I used to be sort of biased towards intuition in that way, at least in terms of the way I understood it. I mean, not to say that I didn't think sensing types could be intelligent... I guess I just viewed it more like N-types being more into knowledge for the sake of knowledge/learning and S-types being into it for the practical application. From what I'm starting to gather, however, it seems like that isn't necessarily true. :wink:

    Cool descriptions of the different dichotomies... thanks for typing all that out for me! From what you wrote, I still feel that all of those apply to me with the exception of Result, but I think that mostly has to do with the fact that I don't really understand it the way you wrote it. Could you maybe elaborate on that (mainly the part about seeing the world in discrete states as opposed to continuous progress)? And I'm not certain about your farsighted description either as far as that being fitting for me... I'll have to think more on that one in particular.

    And you think I could be SEI? Really? What makes you think that it's more likely than any other type? That isn't a challenge lol; I'm just curious and trying to "get" this all, still. I've been reading up on SEI descriptions and, while parts of it could definitely fit me, I don't fully understand what is and it's sort of creating a barrier for me in terms of how well I'm understanding these descriptions.

    Anyway, thanks a lot for all your help so far. I really appreciate it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Sure
    Lucky bastard(s)!! I'm srsly jealous.

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    You might actually be IEI, Fe-IEI? But I'm no expert, or have a justification, just thinking that you kind of come off that way.

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    On Using Reinin Dichotomies to Type... ?
    Not recommended.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hotasphyxiation View Post
    Yeah, I have to admit that I used to be sort of biased towards intuition in that way, at least in terms of the way I understood it. I mean, not to say that I didn't think sensing types could be intelligent... I guess I just viewed it more like N-types being more into knowledge for the sake of knowledge/learning and S-types being into it for the practical application. From what I'm starting to gather, however, it seems like that isn't necessarily true. :wink:

    Cool descriptions of the different dichotomies... thanks for typing all that out for me! From what you wrote, I still feel that all of those apply to me with the exception of Result, but I think that mostly has to do with the fact that I don't really understand it the way you wrote it. Could you maybe elaborate on that (mainly the part about seeing the world in discrete states as opposed to continuous progress)? And I'm not certain about your farsighted description either as far as that being fitting for me... I'll have to think more on that one in particular.

    And you think I could be SEI? Really? What makes you think that it's more likely than any other type? That isn't a challenge lol; I'm just curious and trying to "get" this all, still. I've been reading up on SEI descriptions and, while parts of it could definitely fit me, I don't fully understand what is and it's sort of creating a barrier for me in terms of how well I'm understanding these descriptions.

    Anyway, thanks a lot for all your help so far. I really appreciate it!

    Lucky bastard(s)!! I'm srsly jealous.
    intuitives like to abstract information and make associative connections, whereas sensors prefer to stay focused on the isolated perception and absorb more information...introverted intuition is the perception of time until a decision is to be enacted, the perception of the future, wheras extroverted intuition is, as I mentioned above, the perception of many imaginative possibilities...according to the clubs, all STs are pragmatists, NTs are rationalists, NFs are humanists, and SFs are socialites; process types (T > S > F > N > T, alpha > beta > gamma > delta) work backwards from a significant event instead of to it...they are very absorbed in everything they do...they are never finished with what they are doing, never satisfied with what they have done or are planning to do, are usually trying to stop something from happening, and are less interested in what has happened or will happen than what is happening, whereas the opposite is true for result...result types tend to know every detail in a particular state of a process, but could not explain how to get from a to b to c, they are also not absorbed since they only care about the finished products and this allows them to work in reverse order or multi-task...I am of the opinion that result types are focused on positive reinforcement (static pessimists / IEE ESI SLE LII) and negative punishment (dynamic optimists / SLI LIE IEI ESE), whereas process types like negative reinforcement (dynamic pessimists / SEI EIE ILI LSE) and positive punishment (static optimists / ILE LSI SEE EII); carefree types are spontaneous, resourceful improvisers - they are naturally good at whatever they do the first time they do it and without much forethought but can be absent-minded/caught off-guard...farsighted types usually have much more tolerance to stimuli and plan out every detail of their lives months in advance

    about SEI...first of all your mannerisms are very SEI, I did not notice this before but I did notice the strongly valued Fe (creative) and slightly weaker Ne (suggestive), also SEIs tend to come off as extroverts since they are perceiving socialites, and that may have thrown everyone off as well...I watched your video again and now I have very little doubt that you are SEI rather than IEE or EIE...it took me a very long time to fully appreciate Si, until I finally figured out what it was; if you learn to VI decisive and judicious sensors (in person, not just on the forum) it will become very obvious to you...here is a link to a post concerning Si by ArchonAlarion: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tml#post590809
    Last edited by Nexus; 12-28-2009 at 12:10 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hotasphyxiation View Post
    Hey again people.

    So upon further investigation of types, functions, information elements, quadras, etc., I attempted to read the Reinin dichotomies as a way of potentially figuring out my type... this totally confused me even MORE, however, as- after asking for VI help and getting pretty much unanimous ENFp and ENFj opinions- I was kinda leaning towards ENFp as my type...

    Then I read more about the quadras, did the tally method for the dichotomies, and came up with this:

    SEI: 5
    ILE: 5
    LSI: 3
    EIE: 3
    ESI: 3
    LIE: 5
    SLI: 5
    IEE: 3
    LII: 6
    ESE: 6
    IEI: 8
    SLE: 4
    ILI: 2
    SEE: 4
    EII: 4
    LSE: 6

    I chose farsighted, yielding, dynamic, emotivist, positivist, judicious, merry, result, and asking, and couldn't come to a decision on the democratic-aristocratic and tactical-strategic ones. This way, I had the most points for IEI. However, I also tried doing the method where you sort of highlight only the ones you feel really strongly about and for me, those were: yielding, emotivist, judicious, and merry. The only type that has all four of these is SEI (I think?). I'd never seriously considered that I could be a sensing type up until that point, but afterwards, I read up a little on the Alpha quadra and feel that I could fit in there as well.

    I read about all the dichotomies on Wikisocion, so I don't know how reliable that is but it was all I could really find on them. Also, where's the best place to find out more about the quadras? I think determining which one I identify best with is going to be my best bet at this point, lol.

    This stuff is seriously confusing. Does anyone ever REALLY know for sure (with absolutely no doubt/questioning whatsoever) what type they are?? Ahhhhhhhhhh I need help (help me? )! Well, if anyone could answer the above questions and/or give me some feedback on using the dichotomies to type oneself I would reaallllllly appreciate it. Thanks!
    this pretty much cements infp>enfp for you, imo
    today is a gift, that's why its called the present

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    Quote Originally Posted by hotasphyxiation View Post
    Lucky bastard(s)!! I'm srsly jealous.
    That was a joke.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hotasphyxiation View Post
    I read about all the dichotomies on Wikisocion, so I don't know how reliable that is but it was all I could really find on them. Also, where's the best place to find out more about the quadras? I think determining which one I identify best with is going to be my best bet at this point, lol.
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...-dynamics.html
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    Not recommended.
    lolz oh shit.

    No but seriously haha, why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    You might actually be IEI, Fe-IEI? But I'm no expert, or have a justification, just thinking that you kind of come off that way.
    Interesting... well I'm still open to considering it, so your opinion has been duly noted. :wink:

    Quote Originally Posted by Huitzilopochtli View Post
    intuitives like to abstract information and make associative connections, whereas sensors prefer to stay focused on the isolated perception and absorb more information...introverted intuition is the perception of time until a decision is to be enacted, the perception of the future, wheras extroverted intuition is, as I mentioned above, the perception of many imaginative possibilities...according to the clubs, all STs are pragmatists, NTs are rationalists, NFs are humanists, and SFs are socialites; process types (T > S > F > N > T, alpha > beta > gamma > delta) work backwards from a significant event instead of to it...they are very absorbed in everything they do...they are never finished with what they are doing, never satisfied with what they have done or are planning to do, are usually trying to stop something from happening, and are less interested in what has happened or will happen than what is happening, whereas the opposite is true for result...result types tend to know every detail in a particular state of a process, but could not explain how to get from a to b to c, they are also not absorbed since they only care about the finished products and this allows them to work in reverse order or multi-task...I am of the opinion that result types are focused on positive reinforcement (static pessimists / IEE ESI SLE LII) and negative punishment (dynamic optimists / SLI LIE IEI ESE), whereas process types like negative reinforcement (dynamic pessimists / SEI EIE ILI LSE) and positive punishment (static optimists / ILE LSI SEE EII); carefree types are spontaneous, resourceful improvisers - they are naturally good at whatever they do the first time they do it and without much forethought but can be absent-minded/caught off-guard...farsighted types usually have much more tolerance to stimuli and plan out every detail of their lives months in advance

    about SEI...first of all your mannerisms are very SEI, I did not notice this before but I did notice the strongly valued Fe (creative) and slightly weaker Ne (suggestive), also SEIs tend to come off as extroverts since they are perceiving socialites, and that may have thrown everyone off as well...I watched your video again and now I have very little doubt that you are SEI rather than IEE or EIE...it took me a very long time to fully appreciate Si, until I finally figured out what it was; if you learn to VI decisive and judicious sensors (in person, not just on the forum) it will become very obvious to you...here is a link to a post concerning Si by ArchonAlarion: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tml#post590809
    Hmm, well I'm still having a hard time choosing between each of those dichotomies but the explanations are helping a little bit, so thanks again.

    And yeah, believe it or not I think I may have finally found my type!! I've been reading the amazing compilation of SEI threads over in the Alpha section (seriously, to whoever made that list-- x infiniti!!!!!!!!) and am really identifying with a lot of that stuff. Also, I think gaining a better understanding of what is is helping me a lot, too. Still, though, I can't be positive. As much as I would like to just go with SEI and be done with it for the time being, I've gotta do a lot more reading up on IEI before I can rule it out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sammy View Post
    this pretty much cements infp>enfp for you, imo
    Well I'm still not sure about INFp, but Im almost certain I'm not ENFj. Thanks for your opinion!

    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    That was a joke.
    Lol, so was my post.

    I've sort of browsed through that thread before, but I'll go back and reread it more in depth to try and understand it a little better. Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hotasphyxiation View Post
    No but seriously haha, why not?

    Hmm, well I'm still having a hard time choosing between each of those dichotomies but the explanations are helping a little bit, so thanks again.

    And yeah, believe it or not I think I may have finally found my type!! I've been reading the amazing compilation of SEI threads over in the Alpha section (seriously, to whoever made that list-- x infiniti!!!!!!!!) and am really identifying with a lot of that stuff. Also, I think gaining a better understanding of what is is helping me a lot, too. Still, though, I can't be positive. As much as I would like to just go with SEI and be done with it for the time being, I've gotta do a lot more reading up on IEI before I can rule it out.
    SO you have settled on creative? If you want to meet an INFp try to get a hold of strrrng, he is a great example of an INFp; Kamajama is a pretty good example of an ISFp. Basically this will be determined by whether you value reasoning or decisions as your ego or your id...INFps tend to get along with ESTps, and ISFps tend to get along better with ENTps, in fact in this case each will find the other's dual incredibly boring.

    Some people find the Reinin traits experimental, controversial, vague, and unverified, but in my opinion they are very useful and do a great job describing the socion and the psychological entities which manifest to form it...IMO if you know what is meant by each term then you will come to observe the traits in people...I for one notice in the eyes of process types a flickering impatience and predisposition to avoid involvement like someone channel-surfing, whereas the eyes of result types will tend to focus on static elements that they find rewarding and jump from one to the next like a child under a giant Christmas tree. Don't be dissuaded by naysayers who have no alternative (refutation) vision...Labcoat, who has authored countless threads on theoretical socionics, recently made this remark...

    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    Quantum theory can predict experimental results with extreme accuracy. Show me how socionics can do the same and I'll accept the analogy.
    I have a degree in physics and having studied quantum mechanics firsthand I am sure he is not in a position to defend any of the 10+ interpretations of quantum theory nor postulate that the empirical evidence supports any of the predictive statistical models beyond the realm of subjective intuition into the realm of practical logic (in particular, concepts like entanglement, coherence, superposition, and observer-observation interdependence render counterfactual aetiology, or cause-and-effect, quite useless, and to examine the math of prediction in quantum mechanics is nothing short of absurd). Concerning socionics, I know that many other 'experts' have made similar complaints (Rick, Smilingeyes), though they are usually judicious types, and I might wonder if their lack of direct sensation of others has contributed to some personal misperceptions or misjudgments which has caused them to find socionics something other than empirical (as an inspector I engage in this behavior naturally). Also don't be fooled by fanatics of 'Classical Socionics' or some other school of socionics like 'Model X', I would advise you to interpret it for yourself because in my experience it is nearly impossible to make sense of some of the ramblings that go on here, and even more so to correlate them with reality. I think you would make a great SEI...have you considered a subtype? If I were you I would start reading about the other types and their relationships to SEI to see if you are truly comfortable as an alpha perceiving introvert. Good Luck!
    Last edited by Nexus; 12-29-2009 at 04:53 AM.

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    If you really really want to use reinin for self-typing, you need to do it algorithmically by elimination, not holistically. Basically, any type is defined by 4 dichotomies, 3 renin (2 small-cycle, 1 large-cycle) +1 MBTI-like (f.e. IEI is the only resolute, result, aristocratic, ethical; SEI is the only reasonable, process, democratic, ethical). Thus if you can identify 1 dichotomy, start by eliminating the 8 types that possess the negation of the given dichotomy. Then switch to the next reinin, eliminate 4 more types. Another reinin, you end up with 2 available types. Now decide on ethics or logic, and you should be fine.

    (I remember I wrote a post about this small algorithm quite a while ago, but I didn't finish its implementation, so the above post is tentative, criticism is welcome).
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    small cycles are helpful if you have an obvious trait, otherwise you might mislead yourself in order to fulfill criteria for a given type...if you decide on each trait independently you will have more independent indicators for a type; the reinin traits have the peculiar trait of forming an abelian group...any two reinin traits implies a third, therefore if you are sensing and feeling or introverted and pessimistic or merry and judicious or process and perceiving or declaring and dynamic or yielding and carefree or strategic and emotivist then you must also be democratic, etc. I would recommend this method only if you are stuck on a reinin trait, and then I would find the combination of reinin traits you are most certain of in order to determine the third unknown.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huitzilopochtli View Post
    any two reinin traits implies a third
    Yeah, I know, but this property is not useful for deleting types from a table of possible choices, since the third dichotomy will be shared by the same types possessing the first two picks.

    But anyway, as you say, of course we always have to pay attention @ the possibility of over-fitting one of our traits to a given renin criteria, rather than doing the opposite, which is the correct procedure. Small-cycle reinin dichotomies are also really volatile, unless a person is a really balanced subtype, thus they might be difficult to employ in practice.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    hotasphyxiation, do you know your enneagram type?
    today is a gift, that's why its called the present

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    Quote Originally Posted by hotasphyxiation View Post
    This stuff is seriously confusing. Does anyone ever REALLY know for sure (with absolutely no doubt/questioning whatsoever) what type they are??
    Yes about 6 years ago I got my type correct in 5 minutes and never changed it since.

    I just used the 4 dichotomies.

    After that I learned about information elements, quadra's and reinin, and wondered how that stuff can ever be helpful in selftyping...

    In the end relationships confirmed my selftyping pretty easy.

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    I find the Reinin dichotomies explain what is already there. That is, they just draw out the components. But I don't think you can piece together the entire picture with the individual components. The picture comes first.

    Quadra values and understanding the hidden agenda/PoLR may help in self-typing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotasphyxiation View Post
    No but seriously haha, why not?
    To me, a lot of the Reinin traits seem to contradict type descriptions.. they don't really seem to do a good job of grouping people overall. If they were less specific in their descriptions, they'd probably be worth more.

    I'd treat them as maybe last priority or a "double-check"--stick with the functions, main dichotomies, and relationships first.
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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    To me, a lot of the Reinin traits seem to contradict type descriptions.. they don't really seem to do a good job of grouping people overall. If they were less specific in their descriptions, they'd probably be worth more.
    This. For example several dichotomies describe the option ILI belongs to as preferring large, loud groups of people. There are also many I can't decide on - why do some of these traits have to go together?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    This. For example several dichotomies describe the option ILI belongs to as preferring large, loud groups of people. There are also many I can't decide on - why do some of these traits have to go together?
    Yeah, and LIEs and SLEs are described as disliking conflict and giving a high priority to the interests of other people, and LSIs are described as desiring to maintain a positive atmosphere rather than trying to get the truth out there. I just don't know what to say about that.

    What about a result, obstinate types? Do they prefer large groups over small groups and small groups over large groups?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    This. For example several dichotomies describe the option ILI belongs to as preferring large, loud groups of people. There are also many I can't decide on - why do some of these traits have to go together?
    ILI is farsighted, extroverted sensors to watch out and introverted intuiters to expect...aka critical; serious types that care more to criticize the defense than contribute to offense, or merry types that criticize results rather than contribute to process...types that accept decisions and create reasons may well want to observe a larger crowd so they can justify and plan out more of their life long term and find a more solid, efficient way to contribute their efforts in every detail; pre-meditated plans do help one to withstand greater extremes

    carefree types don't care (EN) and improvise freely (IS); subjective process and objective result, they accept reasons and then create decisions without restraints and can be considered dogmatic; a dogmatic critic/expert is unheard of

    any 2 Reinin traits implies another because they form an Abelian group with algebraic symmetry and each dichotomy consists of 2 inverses


    I hope this helps

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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    Yeah, and LIEs and SLEs are described as disliking conflict and giving a high priority to the interests of other people, and LSIs are described as desiring to maintain a positive atmosphere rather than trying to get the truth out there. I just don't know what to say about that.

    What about a result, obstinate types? Do they prefer large groups over small groups and small groups over large groups?
    obstinate result is judicious; obviously if you want to accept something final that is subjective or create something final that is serious you want to be choosy; if you are going to be decisive about the ends you will have to yield; likewise, if you are stubborn and decisive you will be engaged in a process/defense, or if you want to reason and continue to yield...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huitzilopochtli View Post
    obstinate result is judicious; obviously if you want to accept something final that is subjective or create something final that is serious you want to be choosy; if you are going to be decisive about the ends you will have to yield; likewise, if you are stubborn and decisive you will be engaged in a process/defense, or if you want to reason and continue to yield...
    Oh, I understand how the traits combine in general. My point is that the full descriptions are so specific that they are contradictory and misleading, and therefore not as useful for typing.
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    I've meant traits within dichotomies as well. I sometimes agree with half the traits of each options.

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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    To me, a lot of the Reinin traits seem to contradict type descriptions.. they don't really seem to do a good job of grouping people overall. If they were less specific in their descriptions, they'd probably be worth more.
    That's how I feel about it too. You could type someone with Reinin and come-out with a different type in Model A
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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    Yeah, and LIEs and SLEs are described as disliking conflict and giving a high priority to the interests of other people, and LSIs are described as desiring to maintain a positive atmosphere rather than trying to get the truth out there.
    Yielding doesn't exactly mean what you described in the frist part of your post (in any case, it's one of the least significant reinin dichotomies); but LSIs are definitely like that: trying to mantain a positive atmosphere.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    but LSIs are definitely like that: trying to mantain a positive atmosphere.
    I guess I wouldn't think of that as a core trait of the type, as opposed to the ethical types (especially Fe-egos). Isn't leading Fe especially about controlling the emotional atmosphere to fit a given situation?

    Basically, I'm trying to reconcile Reinin dichotomies with Model A, and it ain't happening for me.
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