Glenn Gould + Nikola Tesla: types?

[Iconoclast IX]

Recently I have been wondering what their types are. If you are not familiar with either figures then...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Gould

Nikola Tesla




Glenn Gould








Here is a rather good documentary on Gould. It is divided into 5 segments:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jiuw44HHb4g
...a video in regards to Gould's humor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57kR6RsV2iA

Also, here is him playing the piano. Note his movements and humming:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qB76jxBq_gQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7LWA...elated&search=


What are your opinions? To begin, I am quite certain that both Gould and Tesla are NTs.

[snegledmaca]

I think the norm is that Tesla is ILE.

[Iconoclast IX]

I think the norm is that Tesla is ILE.

Hmmm. Well, he is commonly typed as ENTP in MBTI, yet I do not think we should rule out the possibility of LIE in socionics for Tesla.

[Animal]

I think Gould might have been EIE. Interesting musician, to say the least.

[Iconoclast IX]

I think Gould might have been EIE. Interesting musician, to say the least.

I never considered that actually. True, Gould displayed several EIE characteristics such as...

from wikisocion
2. The true servant of the arts who has lost himself or herself in artistic expression and is ever an artist/poet/actor/musician, no matter where he is or whom he is with.
...
4. The hypochondriac who is constantly ill with some strange and menacing illness that cannot be seen.

However, I cannot really imagine Gould having as a base function. The man was emotionally quite surpressed, and always seemed to have difficulty displaying strong emotion or affection.

[Animal]

Fe won't necessarily manifest itself in affectionate displays in one's personal life. His interpretations of Bach are quite personal, almost Romanticized and his eccentric tendencies indicate some influence of Fe.

Here is a short interview on his second recording of the Goldberg Variations. Overall, a pretty likeable personality, here:
[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=FQnUIJXNJ7k[/youtube]

EDIT 2: I could see LIE.

[Birds]

I never considered that actually. True, Gould displayed several EIE characteristics such as...

from wikisocion
2. The true servant of the arts who has lost himself or herself in artistic expression and is ever an artist/poet/actor/musician, no matter where he is or whom he is with.
...
4. The hypochondriac who is constantly ill with some strange and menacing illness that cannot be seen.

I have never known an ENFj who was hypochondriac... I know one, and he never ever ever displays any kind of illness, ever. He will most likely ignore it, and never talk about any health-related stuff.

I know nothing about Gould, but I think he looks INFp/ISTp, imo.

[Park]

My guess is ENTp for both.

[krieger]

From the Piano video of Gould: has to be dynamic; and about certainly an extrovert too.

Ej temperament.

Brought to you by double negativist-result-static's X-ray vision. (in other words, no concrete arguments)

[Dioklecian]

gould looks INTp, ESTp imo a weak possibility. tesla looks kinda INTj-ish, Ij to me anyway.

I agree with Dee's Gould observations. I had him as INTP until recently. A famous ENFP pianist recently put him down because of his "metronome" playing that "destroys the tone". That seems INTP, I have the same problems playing the clarinet. My tone is not quite right.

But he couldalso be ENTP but he swaggers a little too much for an ENTP, they are much more careful usually.

[implied]

this is positively hilarious to me.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57kR6RsV2iA[/youtube]

[MrsTortilla]

Can we revive this discussion? I’m curious. I dated someone for almost a year (a long time ago) who tested ENTp and if you remove Tesla’s mustache in that iconic photo it could’ve been my ex. Ex also very reminiscent of Daniel Tosh. Our relationship started off VERY good and even though it ended it’s hard for me to believe those were Conflictor (ILE-ESI) relations. Activity seems more right looking back.

Anyway: ILE or ILI for Nikola Tesla, and why?

[Spermatozoa]

Based on appearance alone, I agree on LIE for Nikola Tesla. One's MBTI type does not necessarily correlate with Sociotype as we know. People often just assume ILE if someone seems like a crazy mad scientist inventor. Tesla however had a very good head for the utility of his inventions, even if this was not immediately obvious.

Glenn Gould, maybe LII. He has a characteristically blocky, analytical style of playing and developed a strong attachment to Bach who I also type as LII. As a pianist and composer myself I can certainly say that I find some composers' scores far, far easier to comprehend than others (even between those writing in the same style and era), the way phrases are constructed and connected for example, and i suspect this is not unrelated to Sociotype, knowing my own cognitive process.

[FDG]

i'll throw it out there - Tesla LSE ?

[WinnieW]

Nikola Tesla is definitly an intuitive type. His (original) ideas were groundbreaking at the time.
I don't know if he was cognitivly an extrovert, but he was socially an introvert.
But a NT-type, anyway. Creative ideas and logical reasoning.

Can't type Glenn Gould, for now.

[WinnieW]

Anyway: ILE or ILI for Nikola Tesla, and why?

Basend on the information I know about him: ILI
>
I see -mobilizing and -PoLR for him.
His motivation was a positive development of the whole mankind. – "Free energy for all people".

But he is difficult to type because he had OCD and probably Aspergers.

[MrsTortilla]

Based on appearance alone, I agree on LIE for Nikola Tesla. One's MBTI type does not necessarily correlate with Sociotype as we know. People often just assume ILE if someone seems like a crazy mad scientist inventor. Tesla however had a very good head for the utility of his inventions, even if this was not immediately obvious.

If you're right, or close to it, this suggests to me that my ex was probably LIE or ILI and NOT ENTp after all. I mean, if the doppelgänger thing makes you an identical.

The extreme compatibility and happiness in the first eight months of that relationship with almost no real conflict would support it. At the same time we challenged each other in interesting ways. Also, after the breakup (which came due to his meeting and falling for someone else while at art school) I was nearly suicidally depressed. Then, over a year later, after his new girlfriend broke up with HIM, he called me wanting to rekindle something (or so it seemed -- but it was too late as I was already in another relationship). If we WERE duals, I guess it would make sense that he would miss duality after a break experiencing what another IR was all about. His biggest complaint about the relationship with the new chick was that she didn't support his ideas/inventiveness in the "open, accepting" way that I had. He was a student cinematographer and screenwriter and was writing a film when we were together he wanted me to compose the score for. But anyway, when we were together we shared an apartment and I basically kept house/cooked and worked while he went to school and wrote his "epic" future film. I was very young and thought he could do no wrong. Sigh...

Anyway, this is all very interesting to me if you are right about Tesla's type! Kind of helps me understand a period of my life that has been confusing; Conflictors for us never made any sense. It's the only time I really felt I had found a soul mate in a romantic partner.

[Xaiviay]

Well I'm not very confident in my typing of Tesla, so please correct me if I'm wrong. But perhaps my thoughts will be of help. As for Gould, I haven't researched him yet.

Personally I think he VIs more as ILE, more than ILI. But it's hard to judge between ILE and LIE, looking at his face. His eyes have a lively glint to them that I don't see in ILI. Judging by his quotes, he was fascinated by the pursuit of novel possibilities (Ne) and able to work them out extensively in private before implementing them in practice. He explained how he'd sit alone for hours just working out his ideas in his head. I've seen him typed as ILE-Ti, and I think this would be accurate, if he is indeed ILE to begin with.

"I do not hesitate to state here for future reference and as a test of the accuracy of my scientific forecast that flying machines and ships propelled by electricity transmitted without wire will have ceased to be a wonder in ten years from now. I would say five were it not that there is such a thing as “inertia of human opinion” resisting revolutionary ideas."

"We are whirling through endless space, with and inconceivable speed, all around everything is spinning, everything is moving, everywhere there is energy. There must be some way of availing ourselves of this energy more directly. Then, with the light obtained from the medium, with the power derived from it, with every form of energy obtained without effort, from the store forever inexhaustible, humanity will advance with giant strides. The mere contemplation of these magnificent possibilities expand our minds, strengthens our hopes and and fills our hearts with supreme delight."

His predictions for the future were optimistic, unlike ILI which is characterized by primarily warning people about the future:

On ILI: As a rule, his prognoses are colored by skepticism – he prefers to voice warnings to admonish those around him from taking unnecessary steps and acting rashly.

He deeply valued his physical state, which doesn't seem like Si POLR to me:

"Everyone should consider his body as a priceless gift from one whom he loves above all, a marvelous work of art, of indescribable beauty, and mystery beyond human conception, and so delicate that a word, a breath, a look, nay, a thought may injure it."

He disliked the growing movement of competitive women, which doesn't sound like a man who values Se in a woman. He wanted a soft-voiced, gentle woman, which seems more characteristic of Si-seeking:

"In place of the soft voiced, gentle woman of my reverent worship," says Mr. Tesla, "has come the woman who thinks that her chief success in life lies in making herself as much as possible like man--in dress, voice and actions, in sports and achievements of every kind"... ..."Woman's independence and her cleverness in obtaining what she wants in the business world is breaking down man's spirit of independence. The old fire he once experienced at being able to achieve something that would compel and hold a woman's devotion is turning to ashes. Women don't seem to want that sort of thing to-day. They appear to want to control and govern. They want man to look up to them, instead of their looking up to him"

He didn't value economic acheivement, earning just barely enough to get along (even though he could have earned more if he had asserted himself in business), which sounds like ILE's Se:

ILE usually prefers not to exert volitional pressure in his actions... ...The organization of his financial situation usually leaves much to be desired. It often occurs that he does not live within his means; he immediately spends everything he earns. But his ingenuity is always sufficient in finding the new possibility to earn and/or acquire money.

...and he admitted to being idle in ways that LIEs rarely are:

"I am credited with being one of the hardest workers and perhaps I am, if thought is the equivalent of labour, for I have devoted to it almost all of my waking hours. But if work is interpreted to be a definite performance in a specified time according to a rigid rule, then I may be the worst of idlers. Every effort under compulsion demands a sacrifice of life-energy. I never paid such a price. On the contrary, I have thrived on my thoughts."

There's more, but this sums up my main thoughts.

[ooo]

@Xaiviay thx lol I wanted to point out the same things... ILE > ILI > LIE he's even pretty obsessed with humanity's good, which would be Fe if I'm not wrong.

Glenn Gould LII instead

[Sol]

Nikola Tesla - LII
Glenn Gould - mb LIE

[Spermatozoa]

If you're right, or close to it, this suggests to me that my ex was probably LIE or ILI and NOT ENTp after all. I mean, if the doppelgänger thing makes you an identical.

The extreme compatibility and happiness in the first eight months of that relationship with almost no real conflict would support it. At the same time we challenged each other in interesting ways. Also, after the breakup (which came due to his meeting and falling for someone else while at art school) I was nearly suicidally depressed. Then, over a year later, after his new girlfriend broke up with HIM, he called me wanting to rekindle something (or so it seemed -- but it was too late as I was already in another relationship). If we WERE duals, I guess it would make sense that he would miss duality after a break experiencing what another IR was all about. His biggest complaint about the relationship with the new chick was that she didn't support his ideas/inventiveness in the "open, accepting" way that I had. He was a student cinematographer and screenwriter and was writing a film when we were together he wanted me to compose the score for. But anyway, when we were together we shared an apartment and I basically kept house/cooked and worked while he went to school and wrote his "epic" future film. I was very young and thought he could do no wrong. Sigh...

Anyway, this is all very interesting to me if you are right about Tesla's type! Kind of helps me understand a period of my life that has been confusing; Conflictors for us never made any sense. It's the only time I really felt I had found a soul mate in a romantic partner.

Two general rules to bear in mind here.

1. Career path and abilities are not a reliable way to assess type. To give another example, composer would not be a typical profession for ESI esp. if female (high spatial intelligence is required) so many people might assume you are not ESI for this reason alone, without consideration of other factors.

2. It is unwise to assess type relative to others (i.e. I am X type because I have a good or bad relationship with this person who I think is Y type), as that observation will only ever be as accurate as your own assessment which will often be highly subjective, an ESI can dislike duals for example if they appear overly boorish and unethical.

Some aspects of this relationship could indicate strong valued Te to me, however.

That he wanted you to take on a role in his professional life by helping compose music is typical for LIE, who tries to organise the most efficient way (conscious Te) to realise potential (unconscious Ne). Compare this to ILE who explores possibility for its own sake, enthused by interest for where it might lead philosophically, and the utility is an afterthought, a bonus.

LIE would think: Why not use a girlfriend whose skills match the needs required? A general relationship dynamic of well-defined roles is typical of Gammas as well.

[Xaiviay]

@MrsTortilla it's pretty possible your ex was ILI, whether or not Tesla was. Even looking at the ILI visuals here http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...a-Gamma-Quadra the ILI second from the left at the top looked a lot like Nikola Tesla physically.

He still has a different look in his eyes than Tesla did (at least, I think so). But I guess that depends on whether your ex looked like Tesla in the facial expression, or the physical features...

Your relationship with your ex is probably more telling of his type, than VI or his test result.

[MrsTortilla]

@MrsTortilla it's pretty possible your ex was ILI, whether or not Tesla was. Even looking at the ILI visuals here http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...a-Gamma-Quadra the ILI second from the left at the top looked a lot like Nikola Tesla physically.

He still has a different look in his eyes than Tesla did (at least, I think so). But I guess that depends on whether your ex looked like Tesla in the facial expression, or the physical features...

Your relationship with your ex is probably more telling of his type, than VI or his test result.

I'm sure the bolded is true. I think I'm just excited to realize I MIGHT have actually dated someone in my own quadra at one time. I guess I had just assumed he was ILE because of one single test he took. I should know those aren't always accurate.

EDIT: I wanted to add that he really only looked "just like" one of Nikola Tesla's photos but still it was uncanny enough for me to assume association. It's hard to say whether he looks more LIE or ILI looking at the link you provided, but I am thinking he was either LIE or ILI now for sure.

In person, he came across extremely confident, even a little arrogant. Anyway, here's an excerpt from his own website (reading it now I don't think he seems very Alpha quadra at all, but I don't think I understood much about quadras or even my own type back when he tested ILE):

===
I was raised in California, living in Los Angeles currently.
I love technology, toys, film, denim, quality, geometry, coffee, laughter, games, and finding new interests all the time.
I work for (workplace redacted by MrsTortilla).
This is why I have a site:

Legacy
Let’s not beat around the bush too much. Living, being creative, and making things, for me, is about sharing experiences and increasing human connectivity. In this age, it makes sense to have a single place, that I own and control, where I can put all of my work and thoughts and whatever else I come across in this life.
This is that place. Bear with me as I fight a few decades of lazy habits and get this thing rolling.

Documentation
Believing in both fierce independence and holistic oneness presents a pseudo paradox.
I often stumble upon nuggets of truth across the web, buried usually in simple sharing. Habits people have built, approaches they have taken, and the ways they think about problems can be valuable. As I build my own approaches and habits, I may feel the need to share my inspiration here.
I will use this site to document my own thoughts and habits. I hope that I will not be seen as arrogant or preachy. My intention is never to propagate my own power or correctness over others, only to share my own process and thoughts. Maybe others will find my thoughts useful in their own lives. Maybe I will strike up a conversation.
Try me.
===

[ooo]

when we were together we shared an apartment and I basically kept house/cooked and worked while he went to school and wrote his "epic" future film.

Hmm it's interesting because this is not a typical ESI behaviour, and resembles more the creative caregiver SEI, ILE's dual. I don't want to suggest you're SEI but it's interesting to consider...

I agree with what was said though, physical resemblance doesn't mean same type and a good relationship doesn't mean fitting IR. Both cases can happen but not a rule.

I went through smth similar once, dear ILE guy first love who I've never stopped thinking about that met another girl in school and they've spent like 7 years together and at the end of their relationship he calls me, after years of not hearing/seeing each others, he says he didn't forget me and what we had was special and maybe we can hang out again? And no I can't because I'm with someone else and I had spent the last 7 years of my life trying to get over him. He wasn't my dual nor my activity nor any good IR around, but we've been through our first meaningful experiences together and we were just happy, no socionics can prove or go against this.

Maybe when we really like someone a kind of dualization just occurs naturally.

[Adam Strange]

@MrsTortilla it's pretty possible your ex was ILI, whether or not Tesla was. Even looking at the ILI visuals here http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...a-Gamma-Quadra the ILI second from the left at the top looked a lot like Nikola Tesla physically.

He still has a different look in his eyes than Tesla did (at least, I think so). But I guess that depends on whether your ex looked like Tesla in the facial expression, or the physical features...

Your relationship with your ex is probably more telling of his type, than VI or his test result.

I agree with your assertion that @MrsTortilla's ex was probably ILI, @Xaiviay. Tesla actually does look a lot like one of the ILI's whom I know, but your analysis of his behavior showed that his life and motivations were pretty much aligned with ILE's. The guy was just an absolutely brilliant inventor, and he basically gave away most of his potential gains because he wasn't interested in business for the sake of making money. He really was trying to (and did) transform the world. You just won't see an ILI doing that.

But it is also quite likely that her ex was an ILI, rather than an ILE. Her description of the relationship's lack of conflict corresponds to my own observations of an ILI-ESI couple that I've known for twenty years.
ILI-ESI is an Activity relationship. They met while he (a lawyer) was litigating something for the city, where she worked as a librarian and was environmentally active. They married about a year after meeting. They invite me to stay with them for a week or two every year because my stay causes them to do things together, which is how they interact best. (This may be an explanation for why her ex wanted her to become active in his work.) The ILI has privately told me that she (his ESI wife) can't handle finances and he finds it incredibly frustrating. I have seen them together enough to know that she also wants more affection than he is ready to give. This would not be a problem if she were SEE, but an ESI can't work the ILI levers as well as she could the LIE levers.
This could also explain why MrsTortilla's ex decided to go off to greener pastures, especially if the woman over there was very forward at first. ILI's are expecting the forwardness of the SEE, and the SEE is expecting the inertness of the ILI. If the new GF wasn't an SEE, then he'd most likely crash and burn and then would come to recognize that what he had before was pretty good. ILI's are pretty good at making rational, balance-sheet decisions.

*EDIT* On the other hand, I get the impression that ILE's spend their whole lives jumping from pasture to pasture. So, really, it's hard to know.

[WinnieW]

Tesla actually does look a lot like one of the ILI's whom I know, but your analysis of his behavior showed that his life and motivations were pretty much aligned with ILE's.

Ok, Adam, I'm convinced and do the math: (ILI + ILE)/2 = LII

[Adam Strange]

Ok, Adam, I'm convinced and do the math: (ILI + ILE)/2 = LII

Well, you're more convinced than I am. The more I look at Tesla, the harder it gets to type him. I found a documentary with an early photo of him that looks LIE. Plus, he left his home in Yugoslavia and came to America for a chance to apply his inventions to Niagara Falls. That sounds pretty LIE to me.

Trying to type people can be very, very difficult, and I'm not that good at it to begin with.

[WinnieW]

I wasn't serious, though it's pretty obivous that he was a NT type.
I found a movie on youtube about Nikola Tesla, but I don't know how close the portrayal of the actors to the real persons is.

Maybe he was are rare LIE-Ni E-5 type.

[Xaiviay]

Ok, Adam, I'm convinced and do the math: (ILI + ILE)/2 = LII

From my perspective, it seems Tesla subordinated reason to the pursuit of possibilities, not the other way around. LII would use theory and possibility to uncover universal truths (Ti logical structures), while ILEs use reason to explore and manifest unrealized potential (in Tesla's case, energy sources for mankind).

But he was also a very reclusive ILE, who still used his Ti extensively, which is why I think ILE-Ti subtype is closest...

[Xaiviay]

Hmm it's interesting because this is not a typical ESI behaviour, and resembles more the creative caregiver SEI, ILE's dual. I don't want to suggest you're SEI but it's interesting to consider...

I agree with what was said though, physical resemblance doesn't mean same type and a good relationship doesn't mean fitting IR. Both cases can happen but not a rule.

I went through smth similar once, dear ILE guy first love who I've never stopped thinking about that met another girl in school and they've spent like 7 years together and at the end of their relationship he calls me, after years of not hearing/seeing each others, he says he didn't forget me and what we had was special and maybe we can hang out again? And no I can't because I'm with someone else and I had spent the last 7 years of my life trying to get over him. He wasn't my dual nor my activity nor any good IR around, but we've been through our first meaningful experiences together and we were just happy, no socionics can prove or go against this.

Maybe when we really like someone a kind of dualization just occurs naturally.

These are all good points, though I'd just like to mention that ESIs are often very talented and dutiful homemakers (even with more discipline than we SEIs who tend to get lazy). They have to care for the POLR of their duals, after all. Si activities are listed under ESI's strengths.

But yeah, physical resemblance or good relationship doesn't necessarily mean a certain type. It can hint towards it, but it's not certain.

[Adam Strange]

I wasn't serious, though it's pretty obivous that he was a NT type.
I found a movie on youtube about Nikola Tesla, but I don't know how close the portrayal of the actors to the real persons is.

Maybe he was are rare LIE-Ni E-5 type.

Here is the documentary I found. It has pictures, but not actors. Tesla's ILE (?) father at 3:00, LIE-looking Tesla at 3:15. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoY_7mbm5ng

[Xaiviay]

I'm sure the bolded is true. I think I'm just excited to realize I MIGHT have actually dated someone in my own quadra at one time. I guess I had just assumed he was ILE because of one single test he took. I should know those aren't always accurate.

EDIT: I wanted to add that he really only looked "just like" one of Nikola Tesla's photos but still it was uncanny enough for me to assume association. It's hard to say whether he looks more LIE or ILI looking at the link you provided, but I am thinking he was either LIE or ILI now for sure.

In person, he came across extremely confident, even a little arrogant. Anyway, here's an excerpt from his own website (reading it now I don't think he seems very Alpha quadra at all, but I don't think I understood much about quadras or even my own type back when he tested ILE):

===
I was raised in California, living in Los Angeles currently.
I love technology, toys, film, denim, quality, geometry, coffee, laughter, games, and finding new interests all the time.
I work for (workplace redacted by MrsTortilla).
This is why I have a site:

Legacy
Let’s not beat around the bush too much. Living, being creative, and making things, for me, is about sharing experiences and increasing human connectivity. In this age, it makes sense to have a single place, that I own and control, where I can put all of my work and thoughts and whatever else I come across in this life.
This is that place. Bear with me as I fight a few decades of lazy habits and get this thing rolling.

Documentation
Believing in both fierce independence and holistic oneness presents a pseudo paradox.
I often stumble upon nuggets of truth across the web, buried usually in simple sharing. Habits people have built, approaches they have taken, and the ways they think about problems can be valuable. As I build my own approaches and habits, I may feel the need to share my inspiration here.
I will use this site to document my own thoughts and habits. I hope that I will not be seen as arrogant or preachy. My intention is never to propagate my own power or correctness over others, only to share my own process and thoughts. Maybe others will find my thoughts useful in their own lives. Maybe I will strike up a conversation.
Try me.
===

Yeah it's pretty exciting when you realize you may have dated someone from your own quadra, I totally understand
I'm not sure how to evaluate all of it, but this part does strike me more as Gamma values than ILE values:

Habits people have built, approaches they have taken, and the ways they think about problems can be valuable. As I build my own approaches and habits, I may feel the need to share my inspiration here.

[WinnieW]

From my perspective, it seems Tesla subordinated reason to the pursuit of possibilities, not the other way around. LII would use theory and possibility to uncover universal truths (Ti logical structures), while ILEs use reason to explore and manifest unrealized potential (in Tesla's case, energy sources for mankind).

What baffles me about Tesla is that all his seamingly different ideas are aspects of one big vision. It's like they are just branches of a singular vision to my perception.
He wasn't a polymath, he was an expert in one area of expertise.
His weakness was that he was nearly blind to the motivations of other people; he was so focused on his own vision.

[Adam Strange]

These are all good points, though I'd just like to mention that ESIs are often very talented and dutiful homemakers (even with more discipline than we SEIs who tend to get lazy). They have to care for the POLR of their duals, after all. Si activities are listed under ESI's strengths.

But yeah, physical resemblance or good relationship doesn't necessarily mean a certain type. It can hint towards it, but it's not certain.

Thanks for saying that, @Xaiviay. I was worried that I had misunderstood ESI's once again, because I thought they keep pretty nice houses. I know a divorced male ESI, and his house is spotless, but the ESI-ILI couple I mentioned earlier has a house that is clean but chaotic. But the ILI just drops stuff wherever he is, and picking up after him might seem unfair to her. When I show up and do the dishes, she (the ESI) makes a sweep of the kitchen and cleans it in minutes.

[ooo]

These are all good points, though I'd just like to mention that ESIs are often very talented and dutiful homemakers (even with more discipline than we SEIs who tend to get lazy). They have to care for the POLR of their duals, after all. Si activities are listed under ESI's strengths.

But yeah, physical resemblance or good relationship doesn't necessarily mean a certain type. It can hint towards it, but it's not certain.

oh yeah ESI are totally disciplined, I wasn't doubting that, and they can be a bit obsessive about chores at times, but I've never experienced this side of them as in taking care of someone... which indeed looks more like a stereotypical caregiver thing.

[MrsTortilla]

Thanks for saying that, @Xaiviay. I was worried that I had misunderstood ESI's once again, because I thought they keep pretty nice houses. I know a divorced male ESI, and his house is spotless, but the ESI-ILI couple I mentioned earlier has a house that is clean but chaotic. But the ILI just drops stuff wherever he is, and picking up after him might seem unfair to her. When I show up and do the dishes, she (the ESI) makes a sweep of the kitchen and cleans it in minutes.

^^This reminds me of how it was with my ex and still now with my EII husband!! Whereas Si stuff doesn’t seem to stress out my ESE mother-in-law or SEI sister-in-law, I’m good at Si stuff but too much is STRESSFUL/tiring. A source of conflict between my EII and me involves me communicating that I want a more fair arrangement when it comes to household stuff because if I’m doing it all I have no time for music or other pursuits. Of course he responds that he never asked me to keep anything tidy in the first place..... With the ex though I didn’t mind doing all the chores for some reason. Honeymoon phase I guess!

[MrsTortilla]

oh yeah ESI are totally disciplined, I wasn't doubting that, and they can be a bit obsessive about chores at times, but I've never experienced this side of them as in taking care of someone... which indeed looks more like a stereotypical caregiver thing.

Hmmm. I wasn’t with him that long and felt completely taken with him. Possibly a honeymoon phase thing. And thinking about it, it was much less about taking care of him and a lot more about doing practical things that had to be done and knowing the other person wasn’t going to do it.

[Xaiviay]

oh yeah ESI are totally disciplined, I wasn't doubting that, and they can be a bit obsessive about chores at times, but I've never experienced this side of them as in taking care of someone... which indeed looks more like a stereotypical caregiver thing.

I personally have seen this, but the one I know closely says she does it out of a sense of moral principle ("I take care of the house for the sake of my family, because this is the virtuous thing to do and makes me feel more useful") than in the way I do it, which is more that I take care of my partner because seeing him respond positively to my Si attention feels directly gratifying (like, oh-so gratifying. I don't think you could understand it unless you have Si in your ego block tehe).
@Adam Strange Yes, no problem! From my personal experience, ESIs are some of the most hard-working caretakers out there.

[MrsTortilla]

I personally have seen this, but the one I know closely says she does it out of a sense of moral principle ("I take care of the house for the sake of my family, because this is the virtuous thing to do and makes me feel more useful") than in the way I do it, which is more that I take care of my partner because seeing him respond positively to my Si attention feels directly gratifying (like, oh-so gratifying. I don't think you could understand it unless you have Si in your ego block tehe).
@Adam Strange Yes, no problem! From my personal experience, ESIs are some of the most hard-working caretakers out there.

I definitely do it for the sake of my family as it’s the right thing to do to create a clean, safe home especially for my kids. I’m pretty sure most moms would have this motivation though. Hard to imagine NOT, you know?

[Xaiviay]

What baffles me about Tesla is that all his seamingly different ideas are aspects of one big vision. It's like they are just branches of a singular vision to my perception.
He wasn't a polymath, he was an expert in one area of expertise.
His weakness was that he was nearly blind to the motivations of other people; he was so focused on his own vision.

ILEs connect their logical ideas back to the general overall picture:

In solving problems he always attempts to see the connection between the specific problem and the general situation; he tries to estimate his response on the basis of general consideration. If he estimates the essence/root, then the logical description becomes obvious; consequences derive themselves from their general conformity with the laws... ...After regarding and studying all of the data, which interests him, he is able to conclude facts where others haven’t, and to create a generalized theory of nature.

So Ti gets channeled into supporting the Ne general picture.

Whereas your type views the logical truths as the final goal and the Ne as the tool to get there:

In order to create a valid schematic, that corresponds to what is logical, LII attempts to penetrate into the essence of objects and events, seeks the underlying reasons for events. Cannot live without a basic set of beliefs; if it was necessary to abandon his old ones (this occurs extremely rarely), he will formulate others

So Ne gets channeled into creating the separate, organized Ti principles

And yeah, he was blind to the underlying motivations of others...Reminds me of Fi POLR, as well

The individual does not expect others to be actively aware or concerned with his own personal sentiments, and so sees little reason to be concerned with those of others, unless they have direct consequences for the individual.

Hello @Adam Strange. I see why how he could be LIE as well, with his facial expression and moving to Niagra Falls. Overall, LIEs and ILEs are the same in their areas of greatest intelligence and talent, too...I still think his eyelids seem to form into the expression of ILEs than LIEs (Tesla's eyes are deep-set which makes it hard to tell, but he's not contracting his lids down in a concentrated expression the way LIEs do in the VI pictures here http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...a-Gamma-Quadra). Given his quotes I'm leaning towards considering him a Ne and Ti-valuer, and I bet a ILE would be willing to move to see his ideas tried out. Tesla said he had admired Niagra Falls since he was a little boy.

But, it's still tough to tell and I could be wrong.

And yeah, it seems like LIEs often get up and travel

Active and restless, often interested in travel and active types of sport: hiking, climbing, running.

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ile-by-Gulenko