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Thread: What am I?

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    Default What am I?

    I've tested as ILI, but somehow expected LII as a result (because of "P/J switch rule", I suppose - I considered myself MBTI INTP, but functions descritpions seem much different). I don't see myself as LII though, and this led me to read more about functions in socionics vs MBTI. I realized I was ILI, but looking for more information about this type, I've started to doubt it again, and here I am.

    See, at first I've misread the diagram and thought Ti was ILI's ignoring function. I've noticed it wasn't so in ILI's profile, this made me take a look at LIE. Type dynamics (from wikisocion) describe me rather well, unfortunately - I've read a few things that others have told me before, but I was unwilling to accept.

    In retrospect, this might have been because of my knowing (and admiring) my ENTP (and probably ILE) sister. Try as I might, I can't recall an instance of my considering many multiple possibilities and generally dabbling with ideas outside of fantasy/science-fiction context, or some wittiness in discussion. I liked to think myself open to all ideas, just like my sister, and thought my mother didn't have a clue when she'd complained of me not being so in real life matters (especially if I thought something was pointless in long term - main point of contest, really). Also I've been often told I'm only criticizing and not contributing, which I've considered an unjustified attack, though thinking it over I can't completely deny this one, either. There's a lot of other accurate details, too.

    Looking at romance style, I seem to be a Victim (though I still have every intention of stabbing anyone who'd try to victimize me). In temperament, most like IP. Club - Researchers, I don't really fit in others. Quadras... this is where I'm not sure. See, I can act like almost any of them, when in their company (Deltas present something of a problem, since they're described as being nice). For example, depending on a person I speak to or a forum I write on, I sometimes consciously alter my expression - like removing all likelihood references (probably, possibly, likely, etc.) to make myself seem more confident. This is at least in part learned. FWIW, I try to be natural here. What rings surprisingly true is Gamma's perception of Alphas. I know a lot of Alphas, especially ILEs (or so I think), though some of the irritation might be with them being Infantile.

    I have some issues with being LIE. One of them is that they - ENTjs and MBTI ENTJ - are said to be charismatic and natural leaders. I don't feel like that - while I can see myself leading (not that I'd like the responsibility), I don't find it easy to get people to follow me. In fact, the only situation when it happens is when there's no one else to do the job. I'm not really sociable - I prefer it when others take initiative. I don't think I'm extroverted, in short. ILI, however, doesn't seem to fit as good - especially id block. This leads me to another question: how accurate do you find the profiles at wikisocion? Everyone deviates from the norm, but both of these types fit and yet don't fit me.

    Kind of ironic I've done a lot more self-reflection reading about socionics, when it's MBTI that's meant to help people in self-development. I guess differentiating between what I am and what I wanted to think of myself is the problem, though I'm not sure I could ever get it clear.

    Thoughts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    I've tested as ILI, but somehow expected LII as a result (because of "P/J switch rule", I suppose - I considered myself MBTI INTP, but functions descritpions seem much different). I don't see myself as LII though, and this led me to read more about functions in socionics vs MBTI. I realized I was ILI, but looking for more information about this type, I've started to doubt it again, and here I am.


    Thoughts?
    Oke let's get you up to date :-)

    j/p switch was invented as a solution to a problem that can't be solved. Needless to say, nobody uses j/p switch anymore, since it was a wrong idea.

    mbti functions are a mess and incomplete. Best to simply ignore them. Socionics functions are correct. (though mbti type descriptions and 4 dichotomies are fine)

    You say you are INTP so most likely ILI, which is correct since you clearly identify with most of the obvious traits (temperament, clubs, introversion/responder, critic etc)

    your main issue with not identifying with ILI seems to be with ID block and functions. functions and model A have caused much confusion with many people their selftypings, since it's harder to relate to functions and blocks, then to the other type traits.
    Last edited by Jarno; 12-19-2009 at 03:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    You say you are INTP so most likely ILI, which is correct since you clearly identify with most of the obvious traits (temperament, clubs, introversion/responder, critic etc)

    your main issue with not identifying with ILI seems to be with ID block and functions. functions and model A have caused much confusion with many people their selftypings, since it's harder to relate to functions and blocks, then to the other type traits.
    Thanks, I think I'll go with ILI for now. So functions are less important than traits in typing? I probably don't understand them well, but I think Ti is my ignoring function rather than Ne (unless the descriptions I've mentioned are inaccurate). I see you've got ILI-Te as your type - that's actually what the test gave me, but I couldn't find a source about subtypes. How do they influence functions? Just the ego or id as well?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    Thanks, I think I'll go with ILI for now. So functions are less important than traits in typing? I probably don't understand them well, but I think Ti is my ignoring function rather than Ne (unless the descriptions I've mentioned are inaccurate). I see you've got ILI-Te as your type - that's actually what the test gave me, but I couldn't find a source about subtypes. How do they influence functions? Just the ego or id as well?
    IMO functions often add more confusion in typing than the other general traits that you've used. As you can also notice in yourself, you're most probably ILI according to several traits, but the only thing that doesn't seem right is Ne as ignoring function. This is probably due to vague definition of 'Ne' and 'ignoring' and the unreliability of introspection. In my experience, only in relationships you'll notice your ignoring function. Since for example it drains energy in Mirage relationship.

    I would also expect you to be Te subtype. Direct and summarized writing style. Ni subtypes like user Crazedrat are more linguistic evolved, as if he writes a poem in every post.

    How and why subtypes exist as they do is still a question. The influence of subtypes are on the ego block and probably the other blocks too... There are probably more than 2 subtypes but at least you can all catagorize them into 2 classes with these traits:
    Producing subtypes (ILI-Te) are always more directed at contact/persuasion with others, Accepting subtypes (ILI-Ni) seem to be more 'talking to themselves and allow others to listen along'.

    Here's the subtypes description:

    ILI subtypes - Wikisocion

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    IMO functions often add more confusion in typing than the other general traits that you've used. As you can also notice in yourself, you're most probably ILI according to several traits, but the only thing that doesn't seem right is Ne as ignoring function. This is probably due to vague definition of 'Ne' and 'ignoring' and the unreliability of introspection. In my experience, only in relationships you'll notice your ignoring function. Since for example it drains energy in Mirage relationship.

    I would also expect you to be Te subtype. Direct and summarized writing style. Ni subtypes like user Crazedrat are more linguistic evolved, as if he writes a poem in every post.
    You're right, I likely don't really understand Ne at this point. I have no idea what types my friends are, except perhaps for some alphas, so I'll probably only find out various relationships with time.

    I'd go with Te, except the subtype seems a bit active, so I'm unsure. ILI it is for now.

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    What are you? A human being
    What type your are is based on your characteristics. Independently, how do you feel about the 8 functions, which one would you not want to deal with, which one angers and annoys you about other individuals, which one are you not sure about? Base your decisions on the definitions I give you please.

    Extraverted intuition is also called Intuition of Possibilities, or Intuition of Potential.

    This function is “responsible” for considering the world in all its possibilities and alternatives, in generalization of what is going on and developing new concepts.

    Bearers of this function are usually curious, full of ideas; they gladly look for new ideas in books, or make new interesting acquaintances. Usually they are not aggressive, and even being talented, often have troubles with getting a “reward”, recognition of their ingenuity. They usually see a lot of positive possibilities in other people. However, when their ideas are offended, they can be very persistent.

    A negative trait: when they promise, it usually does not mean “I will certainly do”, often it means “I wish it would happen when somebody helps”.

    Introverted intuition is also called Time Intuition.

    This function, instead of lots of possibilities, considers people and the world as if flowing in a big and insuperable stream of time. What does people's potential mean when it cannot be realized? Fate rules the world. Their usual condition is something like meditation. However, in spite of such “Buddhist” vital philosophy, they are very smart in adaptation to different crises that happen in life, and stoically tolerate even somebody else's petty tyranny. They are intellectuals, but they do not often want to demonstrate their ideas, preferring that other people would pay attention to them, and for this reason often seem to be “passive”. In fact, they do not think they are “passive” – the “wait for the good moment”.

    Extraverted sensing is also called Volitional Sensing, or Space-capturing Sensing.

    This sensing function directs to occupation of space. People with this strong function are usually demanding people, which like when other people fulfill their wishes and demands. Sometimes they become managers, and sometimes – good sellers that can sell even unnecessary things. They often (but not always) have athletic, somewhat roundish figure, quick and demanding eyes. They are very persistent in the life: "If I want, then it should be achieved”, and they often gladly help other people – those who accept their leadership. Their outbursts of anger may fear some people, but in fact they are short-term – in several minutes they become calm again and restore their good mood.

    Introverted sensing is also called Comfort Sensing, or Space-settling Sensing.

    This kind of sensing is rather passive, it focuses on getting as more pleasant feelings as possible, on reduction of quantity of unnecessary motions, on the quality and functionality of work. People with this function as dominant do not like to argue (if they began – it means that something VERY serious happened). They are often efficient at work that requires attention to small details, monotonous chores etc. They like intellectuals, like new ideas, because these ideas make their life more diverse, but also ridicule intellectuals for their “impractical approach”.

    Extraverted logic is also called Processual or Practical Logic.
    It estimates everything in terms of efficiency: not abstract analysis, but "how to make it work?", and not systems, but methods. They are energetic, active, and mobile. As scientists, they are strong in improvement of methods, but often they choose a business career. However, people who work together with them, often blame these types of being "too dry, cold-hearted", even in spite of their high emotionality. In general, this type of thinking may be called “algorithmic”.

    Introverted logic is also called Systematic Logic, or Structural Logic.

    This type of logic is inertial. Instead of “making things work”, it rather focuses on elimination of contradictions, on systematization, or in more general meaning – on “justice” (if it only exists). The types for which this function is dominant are often not too energetic, they are rather stable-mooded, work without noticeable “falls” and “rises”, logical and reticent in their sayings and deeds. On the one hand, other people respect them for being “just”, for their cold and sober analysis of situations; on the other, they do not “feel people” well.

    Extraverted ethic is also called Emotional Ethic.
    This function reflects person's own emotions, his/her emotional, highly personal and passionate reaction to what is going on around. Types with this dominant functions are eloquent, often smiling, artistic, charming (but somewhat “fussy” and “too artistic”), can speak and persuade others, but they perceive situations too emotionally, too personally, and sometimes they “sink” in their own emotions, cannot calm down for long time.

    Introverted ethic is also called Ethic of Relations.

    This function is inertial; many emotions are inside such a person, but they do not go outwards, and rather stay “conserved”. Such people are very passionate in evaluating other people, but from outside they seem to be “emotionless”, smiling just as much as etiquette requires. They are good spectators of relations: in a small collective, they very quickly feel who has which relations with whom. They can work with people – as lawyers, pedagogues, etc. However, being so attentive to people's relations, they do not like, even more, they are afraid of “intellectual initiative”, do not like arguing, because it can “break” or just significantly change relations with other people.

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    This is step No 2:

    NeTi and SeTi

    They may be misperceived for the quasi-identical types (Enterpriser (TeTi) and Administrator (TeSi) with the dominant extraverted logic) for their activity and logical way of thinking. The difference is, that both Seeker and Commander are spontaneous types, who do not like to adapt to procedures. Their thinking is conceptual, not methodological; often they can even contradict to what they just have said, but they do not accept such reproaches: “What happened, I just considered the situation from different viewpoints!” Commanders (SeTi) (sensory) often are good as crisis managers, military commanders, heads of the state in crisis situations but quickly get bored of complicated procedures that exist in peaceful democratic states. They often like “cat-and-mouse” logical discussion, where important is not to find the truth but to win, to “kill” the opponent with arguments. Seekers (NeTi) (intuitive) often become scientists and specialists who present interesting concepts, but very rarely (and often with somebody else's help) they succeed to transform their concepts into working technologies and methods. Their activity is not even: sometimes they are super-active, sometimes fall into periods of depression.

    NiTe and SiTe

    They may be misperceived for the quasi-identical types (Analyst and Inspector with the dominant introverted logic) for their calm logical emotionless manner of explaining their views, and for certain vital conservatism. However, the difference is, that they do not strive for being consistent and systematic in their thoughts – on the contrary, they strive for adaptation to ever-changing situation, and thus their sayings often look incomplete or vague. Carl Gustav Jung, although some typologists think he was an Analyst, not Critic, wrote in a very vague, ambiguous way, often left his ideas uncompleted, and even his typology was for him just a “by-product”. Often the facial expression of Critics and Craftsmen is skeptical, with a characteristic grin. They prefer not to present their own concepts but rather to criticize our people for imperfect, contradictory concepts. These two types may be also called “anti-enthusiasts” – they like to warn other people against insufficiently considered, unreasoned spontaneous actions, and hate very much excessive emotions.

    NeFi and SeFi

    They may be misperceived for the quasi-identical types (Mentor and Bonvivant with the dominant extraverted ethic), because they are active, ever-smiling, often among people. However, their emotionality is quite different than that of rational extraverted ethic types. Both Psychologist and Politician do not like excessive emotions and try to negotiate rather than to awake excitement.

    NiFe and SiFe

    They may be misperceived for the quasi-identical types (Humanist and Conservator with the dominant introverted ethic) for their strive for good relations with other people, very mild and comfortable manner of communication. However, there is a difference: both Lyricist and Mediator are emotionally active and even often try to awake emotions in other people. By contrast, Humanist and Conservator rather strive to suppress excessive emotions, to release other people from redundant, unnecessary emotions.

    TeNi and FeNi

    They may be misperceived for the quasi-identical types (Seeker - (NeTi) and Psychologist (NeFi) with the dominant extraverted intuition) for their intellectualism and ingenuity, for the abstract manner of explaining their views, for speaking a lot about “possibilities” and future perspectives, for having a lot of ideas concerning how thing should go on correctly.

    To understand the difference, let us consider a row of people representing the types Enterpriser and Mentor, i.e. with introverted intuition as the secondary function. This function entails certain kind of “prophet-like” or “preacher-like” behavior. Such people believe in magnificent perspectives, and they try to transfer their belief to other people, even when the situation is really bad and gloomy. Reagan, – some of these politicians had bad reputation, some are adored and admired, but they all had something important, a common trait that united them all – their “prophet-like” behavior, their capability to “infect” people with belief in the future, even when several minutes ago people were much dissatisfied of them.

    TiNe and FiNe

    They may be misperceived for the quasi-identical types (Critic and Lyricist with the dominant introverted intuition) for their being modest intellectuals who do not strive “into the center of events”, their certain idealism. However, the difference is remarkable: both Analyst and Humanist are consequent in their thoughts, often have well-structured speech (and often prefer to communicate in written than in spoken). They are rigid in their everyday life: while Critic and Lyricist can well adapt to changing circumstances, Analyst and Humanist rather suffer when plans change. And they both believe that people are full of positive potential, which should be discovered and developed.

    TeSi and FeSi

    They may be misperceived for the quasi-identical types (Commander and Politician with the dominant extraverted sensing) for their energy, drive; men of these types often look like “machos”. However, these men more look aggressive than they really are; and women of this type are especially caring for the comfort and well-being of their families. They are ardent fighters for quality; when something is made too quickly, they begin to look for defects and usually find them. They are always in hurry, always feel "lack of time” and feel offended when other people criticize their tempo.

    TiSe and FiSe

    They may be misperceived for the quasi-identical types (Craftsman and Mediator with the dominant introverted sensing) for their very accurate manner of clothing, for the order that reigns in their apartments, at their workplaces, for their thrifty manner of life. However, they are internally mobilized, as if waiting for a war or an emergency situation, they tend to split the mankind into “our people” and the rest, they are much conservative in their views. And communicating with them at close distance, you will quickly understand that they do not tolerate objections, even though they look so calm and moderate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Independently, how do you feel about the 8 functions, which one would you not want to deal with, which one angers and annoys you about other individuals, which one are you not sure about? Base your decisions on the definitions I give you please.
    Thank you for posting descriptions of functions you go with. I'll comment where it's needed, but mostly I'll go with emphasis and strikethrough. What's left is neutral or irrelevant.

    Extraverted intuition is also called Intuition of Possibilities, or Intuition of Potential.

    This function is “responsible” for considering the world in all its possibilities and alternatives, in generalization of what is going on and developing new concepts.

    Bearers of this function are usually curious, full of ideas; they gladly look for new ideas in books, or make new interesting acquaintances. Usually they are not aggressive, and even being talented, often have troubles with getting a “reward”, recognition of their ingenuity. I'm not sure about "full of ideas"; I like to think I am. I dislike meeting new people for the sake of it, but I can easily talk with interesting new acquintance, although I won't initiate the conversation. Sometimes the "reward" comes to me, and sometimes it's when I don't think I deserve it. They usually see a lot of positive possibilities in other people. However, when their ideas are offended, they can be very persistent.

    A negative trait: when they promise, it usually does not mean “I will certainly do”, often it means “I wish it would happen when somebody helps”. I try to avoid making promises - I feel obliged to fullfil them, but when they aren't really important I may back out.

    Introverted intuition is also called Time Intuition.

    This function, instead of lots of possibilities, considers people and the world as if flowing in a big and insuperable stream of time. What does people's potential mean when it cannot be realized? Fate rules the world. Their usual condition is something like meditation. However, in spite of such “Buddhist” vital philosophy, they are very smart in adaptation to different crises that happen in life, and stoically tolerate even somebody else's petty tyranny. They are intellectuals, but they do not often want to demonstrate their ideas, preferring that other people would pay attention to them, and for this reason often seem to be “passive”. In fact, they do not think they are “passive” – the “wait for the good moment”. Different crisises is about the only time my family appreciates me. This is an exaggeration, but a relevant one. Usually they're upset I'm not orderly, don't believe in set schedules, nor am I as reliable or meticulous as they expect. Their way of adapting when their plan changes is sticking to what's left of it, and I don't want to be part of it, so I step in. They call it out of the box thinking, which it isn't.

    Extraverted sensing is also called Volitional Sensing, or Space-capturing Sensing.

    This sensing function directs to occupation of space. People with this strong function are usually demanding people, which like when other people fulfill their wishes and demands Who doesn't? I try not to make demands though. I lose respect for those who blindly follow. It's nice to get what I want, but not to be waited on constantly. Sometimes they become managers, and sometimes – good sellers that can sell even unnecessary things. They often (but not always) have athletic, somewhat roundish figure, quick and demanding eyes. They are very persistent in the life: "If I want, then it should be achieved”, and they often gladly help other people – those who accept their leadership. With exception being when they make me lead, but then don't accept it - this is rare though. Their outbursts of anger may fear some people, but in fact they are short-term – in several minutes they become calm again and restore their good mood. My moods change but I don't know if there's a default one, or if it's a good one. They're rather mild I think, but I don't know enough people well on this emotional level to compare.

    Introverted sensing is also called Comfort Sensing, or Space-settling Sensing.

    This kind of sensing is rather passive, it focuses on getting as more pleasant feelings as possible, on reduction of quantity of unnecessary motions, on the quality and functionality of work. People with this function as dominant do not like to argue (if they began – it means that something VERY serious happened). This is way too strong. I may walk away from a challenge if it isn't worth it, but I don't mind standing up to others. I suppose I could say I choose my fights carefully. They are often efficient at work that requires attention to small details, monotonous chores etc. See comments on Ne. They like intellectuals, like new ideas, because these ideas make their life more diverse, but also ridicule intellectuals for their “impractical approach”. No.

    Extraverted logic is also called Processual or Practical Logic.
    It estimates everything in terms of efficiency: not abstract analysis, but "how to make it work?", and not systems, but methods. They are energetic, active, and mobile. As scientists, they are strong in improvement of methods, but often they choose a business career. I'm not sure if I am good there, but I think I could be, and would likely choose business career. However, people who work together with them, often blame these types of being "too dry, cold-hearted", even in spite of their high emotionality. I'm not sure whether it's high, but people seem to see less than there is. In general, this type of thinking may be called “algorithmic”.

    Introverted logic is also called Systematic Logic, or Structural Logic.

    This type of logic is inertial. Instead of “making things work”, it rather focuses on elimination of contradictions - this is tricky: I'll notice contradictions easily and point them out, especially in arguments, but I realize some of what I think is paraconsistent on systematization, or in more general meaning – on “justice” (if it only exists). The types for which this function is dominant are often not too energetic, they are rather stable-mooded, work without noticeable “falls” and “rises”, logical and reticent in their sayings and deeds. On the one hand, other people respect them for being “just”, for their cold and sober analysis of situations; on the other, they do not “feel people” well.

    Extraverted ethic is also called Emotional Ethic.
    This function reflects person's own emotions, his/her emotional, highly personal and passionate reaction to what is going on around. Types with this dominant functions are eloquent, often smiling, artistic, charming (but somewhat “fussy” and “too artistic”), can speak and persuade others, but they perceive situations too emotionally, too personally, and sometimes they “sink” in their own emotions, cannot calm down for long time.

    Introverted ethic is also called Ethic of Relations.

    This function is inertial; many emotions are inside such a person, but they do not go outwards, and rather stay “conserved”. Such people are very passionate in evaluating other people, but from outside they seem to be “emotionless”, smiling just as much as etiquette requires. I do smile when I'm amused too, unless I'm in the situation when I'd rather hide it. I also learned to smile when I meet people. It's completely mechanical, but seems to work. They are good spectators of relations: in a small collective, they very quickly feel who has which relations with whom. They can work with people – as lawyers, pedagogues, etc. However, being so attentive to people's relations, they do not like, even more, they are afraid of “intellectual initiative”, do not like arguing, because it can “break” or just significantly change relations with other people. I think relations are important, but I'm not nearly so good there. I make mistakes too.
    Last edited by Aiss; 04-01-2010 at 02:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post



    Should I put it in my sig already, or continue to step 2? I don't want to have people ask what happened to my demonstrative...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    Should I put it in my sig already, or continue to step 2? I don't want to have people ask what happened to my demonstrative...
    Please do continue to step 2

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    Same method as there was no protest.

    This is step No 2:

    NeTi and SeTi

    They may be misperceived for the quasi-identical types (Enterpriser (TeTi) and Administrator (TeSi) with the dominant extraverted logic) for their activity and logical way of thinking. The difference is, that both Seeker and Commander are spontaneous types, who do not like to adapt to procedures. Their thinking is conceptual, not methodological; often they can even contradict to what they just have said, but they do not accept such reproaches: “What happened, I just considered the situation from different viewpoints!” Commanders (SeTi) (sensory) often are good as crisis managers, although I only dealt with minor crisises so far, military commanders, heads of the state in crisis situations but quickly get bored of complicated procedures that exist in peaceful democratic states. They often like “cat-and-mouse” logical discussion, where important is not to find the truth but to win, to “kill” the opponent with arguments. I don't argue to prove whose truth is truer. Seekers (NeTi) (intuitive) often become scientists and specialists who present interesting concepts, but very rarely (and often with somebody else's help) they succeed to transform their concepts into working technologies and methods. Their activity is not even: sometimes they are super-active, sometimes fall into periods of depression. I never suffered from real depression but I suppose it's not the point. I don't know about transforming concepts into methods; I can work out how to apply the idea and even start implementation, but once I know how, I never get to finishing it. So, I have no real-world evidence it works.

    NiTe and SiTe

    They may be misperceived for the quasi-identical types (Analyst and Inspector with the dominant introverted logic) for their calm logical emotionless manner of explaining their views - it's usually true, but there are times some negative emotion gets out if I feel strongly about something (like when someone argues against basic human rights). Then again, I said something about me arguing with someone to (probably) IEE recently, and he told me I never argue by his standards, and for certain vital conservatism - not sure what it is supposed to mean. However, the difference is, that they do not strive for being consistent and systematic in their thoughts – on the contrary, they strive for adaptation to ever-changing situation, and thus their sayings often look incomplete or vague - that's not for me to say. Carl Gustav Jung, although some typologists think he was an Analyst, not Critic, wrote in a very vague, ambiguous way, often left his ideas uncompleted, and even his typology was for him just a “by-product”. Often the facial expression of Critics and Craftsmen is skeptical, with a characteristic grin - I have been told about skeptical but don't know about the grin. They prefer not to present their own concepts but rather to criticize our people for imperfect, contradictory concepts. These two types may be also called “anti-enthusiasts” – they like to warn other people against insufficiently considered, unreasoned spontaneous actions, and hate very much excessive emotions. This.

    NeFi and SeFi

    They may be misperceived for the quasi-identical types (Mentor and Bonvivant with the dominant extraverted ethic), because they are active, ever-smiling, often among people. However, their emotionality is quite different than that of rational extraverted ethic types. Both Psychologist and Politician do not like excessive emotions and try to negotiate rather than to awake excitement.

    NiFe and SiFe

    They may be misperceived for the quasi-identical types (Humanist and Conservator with the dominant introverted ethic) for their strive for good relations with other people, very mild and comfortable manner of communication. However, there is a difference: both Lyricist and Mediator are emotionally active and even often try to awake emotions in other people. By contrast, Humanist and Conservator rather strive to suppress excessive emotions, to release other people from redundant, unnecessary emotions.

    TeNi and FeNi

    They may be misperceived for the quasi-identical types (Seeker - (NeTi) and Psychologist (NeFi) with the dominant extraverted intuition) for their intellectualism and ingenuity, for the abstract manner of explaining their views, for speaking a lot about “possibilities” and future perspectives, for having a lot of ideas concerning how thing should go on correctly - I often have thoughts on how things could be improved but I'm not sure if this is the point. I don't think there's a "proper" way to do things, rather more/less effective ones.

    To understand the difference, let us consider a row of people representing the types Enterpriser and Mentor, i.e. with introverted intuition as the secondary function. This function entails certain kind of “prophet-like” or “preacher-like” behavior. Such people believe in magnificent perspectives, and they try to transfer their belief to other people, even when the situation is really bad and gloomy. Reagan, – some of these politicians had bad reputation, some are adored and admired, but they all had something important, a common trait that united them all – their “prophet-like” behavior, their capability to “infect” people with belief in the future, even when several minutes ago people were much dissatisfied of them. Not sure. I talk to people too little. Magnificent perspectives I'm guilty of. But I also think how more mundane things could be improved (like city transport).

    TiNe and FiNe

    They may be misperceived for the quasi-identical types (Critic and Lyricist with the dominant introverted intuition) for their being modest intellectuals who do not strive “into the center of events”, their certain idealism. However, the difference is remarkable: both Analyst and Humanist are consequent in their thoughts, often have well-structured speech (and often prefer to communicate in written than in spoken - this really depends on situation, no clear preference). They are rigid in their everyday life: while Critic and Lyricist can well adapt to changing circumstances, Analyst and Humanist rather suffer when plans change. And they both believe that people are full of positive potential, which should be discovered and developed.

    TeSi and FeSi

    They may be misperceived for the quasi-identical types (Commander and Politician with the dominant extraverted sensing) for their energy, drive; men of these types often look like “machos”. However, these men more look aggressive than they really are; and women of this type are especially caring for the comfort and well-being of their families. They are ardent fighters for quality; when something is made too quickly, they begin to look for defects and usually find them. They are always in hurry, always feel "lack of time” and feel offended when other people criticize their tempo. That's my mother, actually. I should give these description more credit, I think.

    TiSe and FiSe

    They may be misperceived for the quasi-identical types (Craftsman and Mediator with the dominant introverted sensing) for their very accurate manner of clothing, for the order that reigns in their apartments, at their workplaces, for their thrifty manner of life. However, they are internally mobilized, as if waiting for a war or an emergency situation, they tend to split the mankind into “our people” and the rest, they are much conservative in their views. And communicating with them at close distance, you will quickly understand that they do not tolerate objections, even though they look so calm and moderate. Now that sounds biased.

  13. #13
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    I can safely say that you may be ISTp or INTp or even INTj....humm. Please read the three descriptions and do your bolding and crossing out thing.

    And last step is to see the picture:

    Maximilian Robespierre—the leader of the Great French Revolution (1789—1794).

    1. "I think therefore I am". He is a man of developed logical faculty, a strong capability for analysis. He knows how to dig to the essence of things, to reveal their internal structure. "Providence has created myself for quiet study work, to which it dedicated all the rapture of my soul", – said Thomas Jefferson, during whose presidency the territory of the US has grown nearly double. He considers all situations of life from the logical viewpoint.

    2. "Justice is my trade". This is a type of a revolutionary or a political conspirator. In a conflict situation he usually organizes a committee to punish the offender. He believes that everything in the world must be logical and consequently just. He is capable of neglecting his own profit and safety when defending the offended. He sets for himself very high requirements. Unless somebody else takes care of him, he can easily drive himself to starvation. Garibaldi, Robespierre, Dzierzhynski, Jefferson are revolutionaries who devoted themselves to an idea.

    3. Ascetic. He appears extremely uncompromising, often looks down with a piercing look from under his philosopher’s forehead. He toughens himself, training for the cold, starvation, losses and disapproval of others. The only aspect where he willingly concedes to his partner is the issue of dressing, taste and routine chores. The necessity to be responsible for these things irritates him. Usually he even does not notice the quality of his clothing. He does not tolerate orders. His dual The Bonvivant, as if being aware of that, involves him into work not by direct orders but begins to fuss about, to make a lot of unnecessary movements – then The Analyst gets involved, and the work goes rapidly, logically and soundly. He himself does not show much initiative, is reclusive and silent.

    4. Somewhat tender and capricious. His self-sacrifice in defending justice becomes especially mind-boggling, if one knows that he feels irritated by everything that disturbs silence and the measured way of his life. He is very concerned about living healthy. Thusly Rene Descartes "considered health as the principal of mortal goods second to the Truth". In his youth he often tends to a cheerful lifestyle with many friends, games of chance, booze. Later he comes to the conclusion that all those things are something other than what he really needs. He is not very ambitious but he does not tolerate when others get ahead of him in their career, out of the same feeling of justice. He finds himself in an especially hard situation when having to obey a boss whom he does not respect.

    5. "He led a happy life who sheltered himself well". He is very secretive, dislikes uninvited visitors. He sharply reacts to reprimands, but sometimes hides his irritation under an artificial smile.


    Honoré de Balzac—the French writer.

    1."Imagination directs me". He possesses a powerful, intellectual imagination. A representative of this type, Honoré de Balzac, in his series of novels, The Human Comedy "painted" the portraits of more than 2000 people who appear hyper real: "he is comparable perhaps only to the city controller's office" —wrote of him Andre Maurois. Similarly, the phantasmagoric world of Gabriel García Marquez is impressively precise in every detail. Due to this quality The Critic can forecast the future quite well. From empirical observations of how a man acts at various times he creates something like a functional model in his mind. In general, he tends to know everything in advance. If he did not have to warn other people about possible dangers (opportunities interest him less), he most possibly would feel himself redundant.

    2."A priest's calmness and restraint". He almost never expresses emotions and protects from them his family and friends. He sincerely believes that passions, too strong, will lead one to his doom. Honoré de Balzac has constantly demonstrated throughout his literary works how passion spreads like a devastating cancer that eats away the souls of men until it finally suppresses all else. This holds totally true in the case of his dual (Caesar, The Politician), a hyperactive person that easily gets carried away.

    3.A profound analyst. He is convinced that living is impossible if one disregards the natural laws that regulate the world. One who ignores reality is heading for disaster. The Criticist believes that it is better to be somewhat too cynical then be a hypocrite. Hearing of a situation, he very soon thoroughly understands it and begins to tell to the bewildered interlocutor the details and aspects that the latter had overlooked. His analysis is devoid of any self-encouragement. "You shouldn't have a different attitude towards life than you have for the kitchen—the same amount of stinking odor; if you want to cook a dish, you'll have to get your hands dirty, just make sure you'll be able to wash the dirt off once you are done; that's the entire moral of our day and age."—So speaks Vautrin, a hero of Balzac's books. Such misanthropy can kill the anybody's spirits, except his dual (The Politician)!

    4."First and foremost, he is kind". In spite of all his "negativism", he is really a very kindly person in nature. The above phrase about Honoré de Balzac belongs to George Sand who knew him very well. He likes strong people who know their way in life, who demand concessions: such people release him from the necessity to invent goals, while using methods invented by him (he is a master of inventing methods.) He is capable of pouring a bucket of cold water out on the head of an enthusiast. But on the other hand, he is likewise capable of easing one's despair, when they are unlucky, when things go the wrong way, when destiny seems to be hostile.

    5.Unapproachable and thus desired. A girl-student by the name of Laima (The Politician) gave a good description of this type when she tried to describe the hero of her dreams: "He must be handsome and smart, with big and sad eyes, not talkative. He does not tell compliments, and by that he creates an impression of his inapproachability. He is taunted by myriads of problems, which, in my opinion are nothing to be bothered with. I am attracted by his sadness, seriousness, so I try to amuse him, to raise his spirits, to make him happy. If such a boy is present at a party, I wouldn't be bored." This is a vivid description of this personality type, who is constant in his feelings, does not like adventures, and desires total dependence of his demanding partner.



    Jean Gabin—the French movie actor.

    1. An iceberg in the ocean. He is obstinate, reclusive, almost always equally cold and enigmatic. His movements are quiet, precise, and very economical: other people often get an impression that his results disproportionately exceed the efforts invested. He is characterized by non-ostentatious quiet persistence and reliable accomplishment of everything he commenced, internal responsibility for deeds and modesty. Like a typical Briton, he is not ostentatious in his attitude towards work, as well as not demonstrative in revealing his feelings at all. At first he may seem to do everything coolly, carelessly. But gradually it becomes clear that his unhurriedness reflects his general tempo of life: a combination of relaxation and perfection.

    2. Talented laziness. Unlike The Seeker, he will scarcely spend his energy for futile work. He is a born inventor, but he does not hurry with the implementation of his ideas, until conditions for maximum effect will ripen. He is proud of his capability of not doing unnecessary things; adores comfort and conveniences. When performing common tasks together with somebody else, everything very easily and without pressure from his side goes the way he likes. All space accessible to him is organized ideally for work and rest. He is an aesthete who completely trusts his taste. He dresses very neatly, with taste, but as a rule not challenging convention. His skin is sensible: "a princess on a pea" must have been said about a woman of this type.

    3. Reserved richness of emotions. It is his aptitude for hiding emotions under the mask of inapproachability and coldness that makes them finely ‘polished’ and expressive (there are many actors among representatives of this type, e.g. Vladimir Vyssotsky, Adriano Celentano). He is calm under any circumstances, but calm in a different manner. He remains cold and unapproachable when he loves, and does not hurry to trust feelings of his somewhat frivolous dual (The Psychologist). He is very jealous and mistrustful: he is horrified that his emotions will be ridiculed. In dangerous situations he stubbornly fears nothing, approaches the source of danger very calmly. This is his best move – to go directly towards the opponent, and the stronger one shall prevail. This is also the main pose of the actor Jean Gabin—impertinence, non-compliance, internal correctness and courage. The more lonely he is, the more unapproachable.

    4. Goals and methods. Sometimes he may be mistaken for a lazybones and a chatterbox, especially when being without his dual for long: he speaks a lot but does nothing, as if waiting for something. In such a situation he is really waiting: for a scream for help. He will not work without a goal, and is not capable of inventing goals himself. Only The Psychologist, the ardent enthusiast, has a key, which starts up the precise and flawless mechanism of The Craftsman. As a reward The Craftsman considers the joy he has brought by his labor. He judges about sincerity of others by voice inflection, which automatically mobilizes him. Both desire and joy are often best expressed by his dual – The Psychologist – who is in addition a great specialist of finding talents and admiring them sincerely. And The Craftsman has to be a favorite, for he does not tolerate equal rewarding regardless of contribution. Only sincere feelings expressed by the eyes and intonations can win him over.

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    Maximilian Robespierre—the leader of the Great French Revolution (1789—1794). - I could have stopped myself but I didn't want to

    1. "I think therefore I am". He is a man of developed logical faculty, a strong capability for analysis. He knows how to dig to the essence of things, to reveal their internal structure. "Providence has created myself for quiet study work, to which it dedicated all the rapture of my soul", – said Thomas Jefferson, during whose presidency the territory of the US has grown nearly double. He considers all situations of life from the logical viewpoint. Quiet study work - if the topic was sufficiently interesting... most aren't, but who knows.

    2. "Justice is my trade". This is a type of a revolutionary or a political conspirator. In a conflict situation he usually organizes a committee to punish the offender. He believes that everything in the world must be logical and consequently just. He is capable of neglecting his own profit and safety when defending the offended. He sets for himself very high requirements. I like to think I'd stand up for anyone, but I don't know if I would. Requirements depend on area. Unless somebody else takes care of him, he can easily drive himself to starvation. Garibaldi, Robespierre, Dzierzhynski, Jefferson are revolutionaries who devoted themselves to an idea. I actually agree Dzierzhynski was of this type, it's just I don't want to be compared to him.

    3. Ascetic. He appears extremely uncompromising, often looks down with a piercing look from under his philosopher’s forehead. He toughens himself, training for the cold, starvation, losses and disapproval of others. The only aspect where he willingly concedes to his partner is the issue of dressing, taste and routine chores. Not that I like being told how to dress but I'm not confident in it. The necessity to be responsible for these things irritates him. Usually he even does not notice the quality of his clothing. He does not tolerate orders. His dual The Bonvivant, as if being aware of that, involves him into work not by direct orders but begins to fuss about, to make a lot of unnecessary movements – then The Analyst gets involved, and the work goes rapidly, logically and soundly. He himself does not show much initiative, is reclusive and silent.

    4. Somewhat tender and capricious. His self-sacrifice in defending justice becomes especially mind-boggling, if one knows that he feels irritated by everything that disturbs silence and the measured way of his life. He is very concerned about living healthy. Thusly Rene Descartes "considered health as the principal of mortal goods second to the Truth". In his youth he often tends to a cheerful lifestyle with many friends, games of chance, booze. Later he comes to the conclusion that all those things are something other than what he really needs. He is not very ambitious but he does not tolerate when others get ahead of him in their career, out of the same feeling of justice. He finds himself in an especially hard situation when having to obey a boss whom he does not respect. Who doesn't?

    5. "He led a happy life who sheltered himself well". He is very secretive, dislikes uninvited visitors. He sharply reacts to reprimands, but sometimes hides his irritation under an artificial smile. Rare.

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    Honoré de Balzac—the French writer.

    1."Imagination directs me". He possesses a powerful, intellectual imagination. I can't be considered objective here, but that's what I think. A representative of this type, Honoré de Balzac, in his series of novels, The Human Comedy "painted" the portraits of more than 2000 people who appear hyper real: "he is comparable perhaps only to the city controller's office" —wrote of him Andre Maurois. Similarly, the phantasmagoric world of Gabriel García Marquez is impressively precise in every detail. Due to this quality The Critic can forecast the future quite well. "Quite well is not very well. I'm satisfied." From empirical observations of how a man acts at various times he creates something like a functional model in his mind. Actually I have written something like that, about functional models and interpolating we all use etc., a while back in context of MBTI. I don't think it's just this type. In general, he tends to know everything in advance. If he did not have to warn other people about possible dangers (opportunities interest him less), he most possibly would feel himself redundant. Sometimes I feel redundant anyway.

    2."A priest's calmness and restraint". He almost never expresses emotions and protects from them his family and friends. He sincerely believes that passions, too strong, will lead one to his doom. Honoré de Balzac has constantly demonstrated throughout his literary works how passion spreads like a devastating cancer that eats away the souls of men until it finally suppresses all else. This holds totally true in the case of his dual (Caesar, The Politician), a hyperactive person that easily gets carried away. I do try to hide my emotions. I am not sure about the rest though; I think decisions made without considering the consequences can be worse than those induced by feelings.

    3. A profound analyst. He is convinced that living is impossible if one disregards the natural laws that regulate the world. One who ignores reality is heading for disaster. The Criticist believes that it is better to be somewhat too cynical then be a hypocrite. Hearing of a situation, he very soon thoroughly understands it and begins to tell to the bewildered interlocutor the details and aspects that the latter had overlooked. His analysis is devoid of any self-encouragement. "You shouldn't have a different attitude towards life than you have for the kitchen—the same amount of stinking odor; if you want to cook a dish, you'll have to get your hands dirty, just make sure you'll be able to wash the dirt off once you are done; that's the entire moral of our day and age."—So speaks Vautrin, a hero of Balzac's books. Such misanthropy can kill the anybody's spirits, except his dual (The Politician)! This doesn't mean I never ignore reality; I sometimes have these self-destructive tendencies.

    4."First and foremost, he is kind". In spite of all his "negativism", he is really a very kindly person in nature. The above phrase about Honoré de Balzac belongs to George Sand who knew him very well. He likes strong people who know their way in life, who demand concessions: such people release him from the necessity to invent goals, while using methods invented by him (he is a master of inventing methods.) He is capable of pouring a bucket of cold water out on the head of an enthusiast. But on the other hand, he is likewise capable of easing one's despair, when they are unlucky, when things go the wrong way, when destiny seems to be hostile. I like to think I'm kind, but I'm not sure I deserve the word. I don't know about despair. I don't feel confident dealing with it (except mine perhaps); people usually don't appreciate solutions.

    5.Unapproachable and thus desired. A girl-student by the name of Laima (The Politician) gave a good description of this type when she tried to describe the hero of her dreams: "He must be handsome and smart, with big and sad eyes, not talkative. He does not tell compliments, and by that he creates an impression of his inapproachability. He is taunted by myriads of problems, which, in my opinion are nothing to be bothered with. I am attracted by his sadness, seriousness, so I try to amuse him, to raise his spirits, to make him happy. If such a boy is present at a party, I wouldn't be bored." This is a vivid description of this personality type, who is constant in his feelings, does not like adventures, and desires total dependence of his demanding partner. This is dual's perception, I don't think I can be unbiased here. I don't tell compliments and I'm not talkative, that's true.

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    Jean Gabin—the French movie actor.

    1. An iceberg in the ocean. He is obstinate, reclusive, almost always equally cold and enigmatic. His movements are quiet, precise, and very economical: other people often get an impression that his results disproportionately exceed the efforts invested. Complicated. I like it when others are impressed by things like me reaching very slowly and yet winning in the game where "who takes it first wins" (like Set), or balancing on seemingly-unbalanceable device, but I rarely manage it. The more nervous the activity, the more I try to be smooth and elegant, but I need something to keep me focused. If I space out (which is most of the time otherwise) I fail. So I can't really claim this trait. He is characterized by non-ostentatious quiet persistence and reliable accomplishment of everything he commenced, internal responsibility for deeds and modesty. Like a typical Briton, he is not ostentatious in his attitude towards work, as well as not demonstrative in revealing his feelings at all. At first he may seem to do everything coolly, carelessly. But gradually it becomes clear that his unhurriedness reflects his general tempo of life: a combination of relaxation and perfection. This is true... as long as I don't space out. Which I do unless something constantly demands my attention.

    2. Talented laziness. Unlike The Seeker, he will scarcely spend his energy for futile work. He is a born inventor, but he does not hurry with the implementation of his ideas - favorite line of my teachers, until conditions for maximum effect will ripen. He is proud of his capability of not doing unnecessary things; adores comfort and conveniences. When performing common tasks together with somebody else, everything very easily and without pressure from his side goes the way he likes. All space accessible to him is organized ideally for work and rest. He is an aesthete who completely trusts his taste. He dresses very neatly, with taste, but as a rule not challenging convention. His skin is sensible: "a princess on a pea" must have been said about a woman of this type. I do dress like that, but I'm not always sure what the convention is. My skin is neither extremely delicate nor coarse, and I don't think it has much to do with it, anyway.

    3. Reserved richness of emotions. It is his aptitude for hiding emotions under the mask of inapproachability and coldness that makes them finely ‘polished’ and expressive (there are many actors among representatives of this type, e.g. Vladimir Vyssotsky, Adriano Celentano). He is calm under any circumstances, but calm in a different manner. He remains cold and unapproachable when he loves, and does not hurry to trust feelings of his somewhat frivolous dual (The Psychologist). He is very jealous and mistrustful: he is horrified that his emotions will be ridiculed. I wasn't sure if I should bold this one, but I can't deny it. Horrified is an exaggeration but mistrustful isn't. In dangerous situations he stubbornly fears nothing, approaches the source of danger very calmly. This is his best move – to go directly towards the opponent, and the stronger one shall prevail. This is also the main pose of the actor Jean Gabin—impertinence, non-compliance, internal correctness and courage. The more lonely he is, the more unapproachable. I don't feel particularly courageous.

    4. Goals and methods. Sometimes he may be mistaken for a lazybones and a chatterbox, especially when being without his dual for long: he speaks a lot but does nothing, as if waiting for something. I'm very rarely in talkative mood, and it doesn't last longer than half an hour. I don't think I have a dual nearby. In such a situation he is really waiting: for a scream for help. He will not work without a goal, and is not capable of inventing goals himself. Only The Psychologist, the ardent enthusiast, has a key, which starts up the precise and flawless mechanism of The Craftsman. As a reward The Craftsman considers the joy he has brought by his labor. He judges about sincerity of others by voice inflection, which automatically mobilizes him. Both desire and joy are often best expressed by his dual – The Psychologist – who is in addition a great specialist of finding talents and admiring them sincerely. And The Craftsman has to be a favorite, for he does not tolerate equal rewarding regardless of contribution. Only sincere feelings expressed by the eyes and intonations can win him over.

  17. #17
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    We have a delema- ISTp or INTp

    I would type you as ISTp
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 04-02-2010 at 04:44 PM.

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