Bad habits that the duals don't like

[717495]

So although I'm kind of pessimistic in the thought that many people here are sure of what they're talking about when it comes to Socionics, I thought this could be an interesting sort of topic builder anyways, and I'm still open to learn nonetheless. This idea came to mind. What are some possible bad habits that you dislike in your dual? and what are some habits they might not like in you? and then how can they help you to fix them, or how can you help them fix them? or how can they be overcome by the self? You can feel free to make lists or generalizations, cite examples, etc. in regards to other types or whatever. Another question is, do you think your dual likes some of your bad habits, but in the sense that he/she wants to help you? where as other types might dislike them in the sense that this person needs to "get it together" somehow, but I'm not the person for it, or just a typical dislike of character. Are you attracted to bad habits in your dual in the sense that you're going to help them, and which habits are those?

[717495]

Bad habits or flaws.

[Slacker]

I asked my husband if I have any bad habits he doesn't like, and he thought about it and said no. But I think he'd probably like me to be better organized, even if he doesn't think about it. Although, on the other hand, if I were organized I'd have greater expectations from him and he wouldn't like that, so he might prefer me like I am.

Hmm, as for him. Sometimes I wish I'd have some idea what time he'd be home from places, but then he has a cell phone so it isn't hard to call him, even if he has no idea. I wouldn't mind if he'd go to family events with me more often, but it isn't a huge deal and if it were, he would go.

Really, I like him as he is, I guess. But I will think about this more, and if something happens that bothers me and is a bad habit, I'll post about it. Or if he complains about a bad habit of mine.

[redbaron]

lol...

maybe laziness. but I don't think they actually mind. I think it might relax them. they also may think it's kind of cute (I'm basing this mostly on my IEI brother and SLE sister-in-law).

this is the nicest thing about duality. your worst personality "flaws" (as seen by most of the world) aren't seen as a bad thing by the dual. which is what allows you to let down your guard and be yourself. they don't make you think you have all these improvements you need to make constantly. (which, frankly, can be exhausting.) Not only that, but being around them is so balancing that it inspires you to be a better version of yourself. That's such a valuable thing.

just think of the good that people could do in this world, the extra energy they'd have, if they didn't feel like they had to spend so much of it trying to fix those flaws, be someone they're not in order to live up to some ideal of their own or another. It's sad really.

[redbaron]

Sure, everyone should strive to be better people and to overcome problems, but to feel like you have to do so in a way that denies you as you...it's painful, frustrating, and so discouraging. Despite your flaws, your dual loves you for you and keeps cheering you on.

exactly.

One of my friends is SEE and he gets in trouble because he is so scattered. I suppose their criticisms are fair, but I cannot help but feel endearment towards him. I have no particular 'feelings' for him, but I always look his way fondly because he is that way. And because they are that way, despite me being a grumpy pants, I always leave their side with a real smile on my face.

[717495]

Insightful, though sorry to hear that. I sympathize in the regard that I've tried to be in a relationship with an ESI who has similar feelings. I guess my main flaw with an ESI of this caliber would to be attracted to them without really recognizing or taking completely seriously all of their standards, yet I would find enough from them to always work hard at it and do the best I can do, and still try to basically respect what they wanted. The big thing I think has to do with creative Se. They might not be forceful enough to really "tell" me with action what they really want, if you know what I mean. So I end up just acting on my impulses and I don't really get the picture. I try to do what I think is right, even though it might not be right for them.

[JWC3]

just think of the good that people could do in this world, the extra energy they'd have, if they didn't feel like they had to spend so much of it trying to fix those flaws, be someone they're not in order to live up to some ideal of their own or another. It's sad really.

You make a fantastic point and all but some people suck hardcore and just need to fix some shit.

If you think you might be one of those people, you prolly are. And don't let redbaron's post give you a false sense of security because suddenly you think it's OK to suck at life. It's not... and your a horrible person for thinking so.

EDIT: And before any one chimes in and decides to be a smart ass by saying "Well what about you?!" or "Look who's talking!" stop and proceed straight to hell, I'm working on it god dammit and I don't need your sass-mouth.

[silverchris9]

Presumably an SLE would be annoyed by my timidity, which I see as lack of Se. Of course, duals generally see each others' failures with the DS function as cute, don't they? Also, this may be more of a male-female thing than an IEI-SLE thing.

I suspect that I might act clingy in a relationship, but that would be a mistake I would fix quickly; while I want to be close to my SO (when I finally have one...), I'm not into that whole joined at the hip business, I don't think.

I might get annoyed at an SLE if they let their do-everything nature get in the way of something really important to me, but then I don't necessarily put that much symbolic importance on events in my life.

Oh, also SLEs tend to not recognized/act on certain social expectations that I feel have some truth to them, but then I admire them somewhat for not accepting them just based on social convention, and once you give them a real reason to believe something is true, I think that generally they'll accept it. For instance, the probably-SLE guys that I've known have been pretty strict on gender differences. They have tended to have stricter assumptions about masculinity in men and femininity in women, and perhaps be a little less "tolerant" when it comes to deviations from those norms (*obviously* this has more to do with environment than anything socionics related). This may (and I'm going out on a limb here) be related to , insofar as makes Se-leading types more alive to the obvious external differences between men and women. Once they have a real reason to be more sensitive about stuff like this, they are. Also, SLEs can be very blunt, which is wonderful for me, but not always effective for reaching their goals, but I guess that's a place where we can help each other out, because I'm too not-blunt. I forget who it was but someone once posted about how if an IEI has to say something mean about you to your face and can't think of a diplomatic answer, you must have really f'd up, and this is 100% true in my case.

So I guess SLEs would correct my timidity and occasional laziness, and I might help them be more tactful or subtle when it suits their goals (and only then, because they're too cool for me to want them to be too much more like me).

But really, the only annoying thing about SLEs is when you're on opposite "teams" in a conflict, because I really have little to no defense against what I perceive of as , and I feel like one has to be fairly devious in order to use offensively (not that it can't be done). As long as overall you're on the same "team" then it's great.

[FDG]

What I (think) my duals usually don't like about me:
- Somewhat too impulsive with words
- Not really polite enough when I don't like the other person
- Would like me to be a bit more orderly (but probably they would think I'm a pain in the ass if I was orderly...)
- Too loud
- Takes too many physical risks (although in some ways they seem to like it, gives them something to worry about, otherwise they would get bored)
- Not really duty-bound enough (again: I think they would NOT like it if I was more duty-bound, but it does feel like they think I "should" be)

What I "don't like" about my duals (not big flaws, but once in a long while they can annoy me a bit):
- Too duty-bound (that's the biggest flaw imho).
- A bit insecure in extraverted settings (like, speaking in front of a classroom) for no real reason.
- Sometimes they take quick, impulsive, incredibly wrong decisions (I find that really weird, since they are usually very careful with stuff)

At the end of the day, the only flaw that can make me a bit mad/worried about them is the third, because sometimes I really see their future going downhill simply because they're not considering all the availably options carefully. I find their insecurity in certain settings endearing; as far as duty-bound goes, well, it can be kind of fun to try convince them to let go of their own expectations about themselves.

[redbaron]

EDIT: And before any one chimes in and decides to be a smart ass by saying "Well what about you?!" or "Look who's talking!" stop and proceed straight to hell, I'm working on it god dammit and I don't need your sass-mouth.

[redbaron]

I think obviously every type ought to strive to be the healthiest version of themselves that they can be. To some extent, one's thinking becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy (in other words, if you think no one will love you, nobody will). There's risk involved, always.

Anyway, I disagree that this kind of compatibility only happens in the beginning. My brother and sister-in-law have been together for 20 years, married for 13 of them. They've been through lots of difficulty from outside circumstances and have come through with their relationship unscathed and stronger than ever. I also have an aunt and uncle (ILE/SEI) who've been through the wringer with problems with their children and also have had a very strong, extremely compatible relationship throughout the 40+ years they've been together.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[tiny_dancer]

Habits? Or personality traits? There aren't a huge number of things SLIs do that persistently bother me.

Worry me? Yes. Some SLIs can be hypersensitive to things they perceive as "bullshit" - i.e. needing a college degree - and end up in some really, REALLY bad spots. Especially right now, as you need a college degree to be a freakin' Coca-cola delivery guy. It just makes me want to say RELAX. The entire world isn't treading on your tail. Anyway, I couldn't marry someone who was ferociously like that, because eventually they're going to be in some deep shit and unable to pull themselves out of it b/c they're too arrogant. Many of them do work around it, though, by owning their own businesses or being so highly skilled that it doesn't matter. Worries the hell out of me, though, because I've seen the ones who are slowly shuffled to the bottom of the pile, despite being more talented and reliable than most, because they don't have the degree and are unable to work with people.

And sometimes they can be needlessly argumentative or say snarky things because something irritates them.. but it will be something as little as a question like "Where do you want me to put this?" There's one person in particular that does that - I'm wondering if it's because her entire family is Fe-valuing and she just can't handle anything resembling their interactions. She has a very low snapping-point in comparison to other SLIs I've known.

But those are the only two I can really think of... There is a good side to that, too, though. Oftentimes they'll call people out who are being ridiculous. They're very self-sufficient and frugal. They don't waste time orating instead of getting work done.

I'm sure if my dual dislikes anything about it me, it would be my messiness, lack of attention to detail, and forgetfulness. Oh, and that I overcomplicate... pretty much everything.

I don't know that I could really "fix" them. I don't think it's my place to pick out faults in people and fix them. If they asked me what I truly thought about it, then yeah, I'd be honest. Maybe if it got really bad then I'd spontaneously say something...

I don't really date someone with that eye, either. You have to love them exactly as they are, otherwise your subconscious desires will creep out and they'll realize that you're trying to change them. If they grow while they're with you, then good. But if that doesn't happen at all, then you have to be okay with that.

[DirectorAbbie]

My duals don't tell me what's wrong with me. I haven't been around them much for a while, but a couple of them had the annoying habit of pretending to be gross. Whether or not you licked your hand, you are going to wash it before you touch me!

[JuJu]

You make a fantastic point and all but some people suck hardcore and just need to fix some shit.

LMAO!!

[redbaron]

I meant that it happens in the beginning of most relationships (non-dual) BECAUSE people aren't interacting entirely as themselves, and overlooking a lot. That various issues only start appearing later as you get closer -

ohhhh, sorry I misunderstood you!

And it's something different to say that you need to get yourself straightened out before attempting a relationship, than to say, "Nobody will ever love me." I actually don't have a problem with finding people who think they do love me - I have a problem with knowing what to do with them.

oh I see. okay.

[DirectorAbbie]

And it's something different to say that you need to get yourself straightened out before attempting a relationship, than to say, "Nobody will ever love me." I actually don't have a problem with finding people who think they do love me - I have a problem with knowing what to do with them.

Heh. Absolutely nothing. They get over it. If they don't, make them useful.

[Suz]

The flaws I see in the one dual i was able to get to know somewhat, are his frequent and excessive alcohol consumption and his flirtatiousness with lots and lots of females.

The interesting thing though, is that I am ambivalent about these flaws. On the one hand they bother me in the sense that those aspects make me feel like we have so many differences and our social lives and behavior really have nothing in common. I also am not sure that I would be happy with an alcoholic (I dont think he is an alcoholic but his behavior certainly can make one think so). So despite how intriguing and attractive I find him, I feel like these two qualities (frequent drunkenness and flirtatiousness) may be standing in the way of me letting my guard down with him.

On the other hand, I find those very same qualities to reflect some of his absolute social genius. He is a social genius. Unlike me :frown: And I am exceedingly impressed by that.

Oh btw, for context, I am IEI and he is SLE.

[Suz]

Oh, and now that I think about it, I think I may have had a boss who was my dual a few years back. Some of his mannerisms and approach to work are very reminiscent to me of this latter dual I worked with recently (who is about my age) and the SLE descriptions i read do remind me of SLE boss as well.

So in retrospect I am remembering that this SLE boss also had a bit of an intriguing quality to him in my view. He was older by about 10-15 years at least and was married, and was my boss so made the dynamic quite different.

My experience with him was a bit different from my experience with the SLE my own age. At first this SLE boss grossly underappreciated me. I observed that he had a tendency to default to treating new people just like an extra pair of hands, unless they came with some "respectable" pedigree in his view, whether by resume' or by word of mouth. Though my educational background is respectable, I was kind of an afterthought addition to his group (a mentor of mine had suggested a collaboration and he was thinking more of using me to pursue that idea) so he didn't really even care to get to know how much experience I'd had and what my goals were. And of course, i'm quiet and softspoken so it was easy to overlook me. I had to really work hard and take my own initiatives to prove myself, so as not to get ignored or forgotten about. For example, this other co-worker of mine who was a bit more show-offy and came to the group by word-of-mouth from one of SLE boss' colleagues got opportunities thrown her way and got signed up for all these conferences to present OTHER peoples' work by SLE boss, while I was getting all these interesting results of my own work but was put into this office way off in a different building and kind of forgotten about. When I realized what was going on, I signed myself up for like 3 conferences and told SLE boss i was going to them. To my slight surprise, he was cool with it! And I think that is really when he started noticing me as more than just a pair of hands. I ended up finding some groundbreaking things, which made him even more excited. Even then, he was kind of talking about having someone else do an oral presentation on MY work, just assuming that I wouldn't want to talk in front of a huge audience. I am not usually one to cause ripples with bosses, but I was so offended that I called him out on that. And again to my surprise, he apologized!!

By the end of my year working for him, he was BEGGING me to stay. He had tons more in mind for me to do. But honestly, I could not wait to get away from working for him. I wanted to resume med school and complete my entire training, so that I would have more respect going in to jobs like that and wouldn't have to fight so hard to prove myself as I did with him.

A couple years later, SLE boss coincidentally took a position as the head of his subspecialty department at the same institution where I was doing my medical residency. When he found out I was there, he emailed the chief of my department saying that I have to go into his subspecialty and he emailed me that he is making a spot available for me in his fellowship program. Mind you his subspecialty is the LAST one i'd want to do (too stressful and draining for me). He also started planning my future saying he'll have me join up with one of his colleagues to get this particular research center going. All of that made me so uncomfortable (especially him PUBLICIZING his plans for me with the chief of my department!! without even asking me how I felt about it!), that I just avoided him like the plague for the following 2 years. I just felt like he was putting too much pressure on me to do what he wants and planning out my life way too much. Plus I felt like if i ended up working with him again, I might end up being seen as just another pair of hands that he would use.

To SLE boss's credit, he was dynamic, eloquent, a prolific researcher, and seen as something of a prodigy in the research community. Was a bright and upbeat guy. Was all about getting things done. But still pretty easygoing and somewhat fun to be around. also I felt that he would probably be fair about giving me credit for work that I did, though that may have been because my immediate mentor (I think an INTp or INTj) was an exceptionally fair person.

All in all, SLE boss was someone I admired greatly but I would never ever want to work for again.

oh, and btw, his wife is a sweet, quiet person who in retrospect had a very similar demeanor as me. Probably an IEI too. Back then, I was shocked that she, a scientist as well, ended up being a stay-at-home mom. I thought it was him being controlling, but now that I am slightly older, feeling like taking a break from my draining field, and have knowledge of socionics, I suspect that this was her choice. She hardly ever came to social events (I think she came to one, just in passing.) I met her when he hosted a holiday get together for the group at their home. Thinking back to the couple of interactions I saw between them, reminds me a lot of the interactions i've had with recent younger SLE.