ISTps suck?

[Creepy-]

Is that the consensus these days - what is this all about? It seems like I'm seeing a lot of posts about SLIs being manipulative and untrustworthy

I'm thinking that's the unhealthy ones... yes? SLIs, what say you?

EDIT: I take the question back - they don't. What is the deal here, though, w people being so down on SLIs? Okay, so there are unhealthy, manipulative ones... there are unhealthy, manipulative people of ALL types [um, ever see an IEE gone bad? Yowza]. I know at least three irl who are kick-ass, and I talk with at least a couple more online who are awesome as well. So... why is everyone so down on SLIs? Where're the NeFi lovins?

[jessica129]

I don't get it. Either everyone is meeting the really unhealthy ones or they're not even SLI's to begin with. I think i'm probobly the most uncomplicated person you could meet and have zero interest in wasting someone's time by being untrustworthy and manipulative. There are decent ones out there.

[Creepy-]

I don't get it. Either everyone is meeting the really unhealthy ones or they're not even SLI's to begin with. I think i'm probobly the most uncomplicated person you could meet and have zero interest in wasting someone's time by being untrustworthy and manipulative. There are decent ones out there.

I think maybe it's that "simplicity" that both fascinates IEEs and sometimes makes us wonder about what's going on beyond the surface. Still waters run deep, they say... I don't think that has to mean they're also turbulent, though....

[jessica129]

Yeah...but sometimes it just is what it is and nothing more...I think a lot of people have a hard time accepting that.

[tiny_dancer]

Well, the other possibility is that they don't get the emotional body language and signals that they send out. They're very rough. My SLI friend has a tendency to get randomly pissy and everyone walks on eggshells b/c they have no clue what she's irritated about. They may be uncomplicated, but they expect everyone else to be the same way they are. So when reality doesn't match the expectations and other people can't read their mind, it irritates the shit out of them.

[Creepy-]

Yeah...but sometimes it just is what it is and nothing more...I think a lot of people have a hard time accepting that.

I'll admit, even after knowing a couple of SLIs very well for a very long time and knowing how awesome THEY are, it is still hard for me to trust that w a new person sometimes... but I have learned [er, am learning] to just relax and let things happen as they will. It's a weird thing, actually - very freeing in some ways.

Well, the other possibility is that they don't get the emotional body language and signals that they send out. They're very rough. My SLI friend has a tendency to get randomly pissy and everyone walks on eggshells b/c they have no clue what she's irritated about. They may be uncomplicated, but they expect everyone else to be the same way they are. So when reality doesn't match the expectations and other people can't read their mind, it irritates the shit out of them.

lol, I've observed this too. I just try to leave them alone when this happens. Or at least to keep from riling them up... being upbeat but quiet tends to work nicely ime, which works bc I'm generally upbeat anyway and I can be quiet ;p

[jessica129]

Well, the other possibility is that they don't get the emotional body language and signals that they send out. They're very rough. My SLI friend has a tendency to get randomly pissy and everyone walks on eggshells b/c they have no clue what she's irritated about. They may be uncomplicated, but they expect everyone else to be the same way they are. So when reality doesn't match the expectations and other people can't read their mind, it irritates the shit out of them.

ha, that is so true.

[Topaz]

I dont think SLIs suck. The issues come up when you try to build closer relationships with them. You can only get so close to them and thats a hard pill to swallow. They can be warm and caring at one moment and cool and aloof the next time you see them. What happened? They dont want to talk about it. Infact they dont want to talk about anything. The harder you try to recreate those warm moments the more elusive they become. So you give up trying. Only problem is they did something to you that few people can do. They slipped you some kind of drug that went straight to your heart and now everything feels grey in comparison. How did this happen? When did you lose control? Back and forth, back and forth they play on your emotions. AAAhhRG! You just want to find them and grab them, shake some sense into them and make they love you... make them love you... (Topaz falls on the floor sobbing)

[Creepy-male]

*SLI fan*

EDIT

[um, ever see an IEE gone bad? Yowza].

Oh God. Yeah, I copped a Dark Side IEE, and I'm aware of what can happen to me when I just stop wanting to hold back because I've lost all respect for a given person, even as a fellow human being. (<- that actually really scared me and made me disappear from a good friendship once. True story.)

SLIs: watch out

[Wrong Way Ticket]

I wouldn't mistake IEEs being "down on all SLIs" with those of us who have had bad experiences and relate them with each other. It doesn't mean we think all SLIs are bad eggs or the Cruella De Vil type.

Everyone is capable of treating someone else badly without realising it. IEEs are sensitive to it and need explanations.

I've met a couple really awesome SLIs. But only been romantically interested in SLIs that have treated me in such a fashion as described in previous thread. That's just my experience sorry. =[

[Wrong Way Ticket]

I dont think SLIs suck. The issues come up when you try to build closer relationships with them. You can only get so close to them and thats a hard pill to swallow. They can be warm and caring at one moment and cool and aloof the next time you see them. What happened? They dont want to talk about it. Infact they dont want to talk about anything. The harder you try to recreate those warm moments the more elusive they become. So you give up trying. Only problem is they did something to you that few people can do. They slipped you some kind of drug that went straight to your heart and now everything feels grey in comparison. How did this happen? When did you lose control? Back and forth, back and forth they play on your emotions. AAAhhRG! You just want to find them and grab them, shake some sense into them and make they love you... make them love you... (Topaz falls on the floor sobbing)

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaa. This. Topaz feels the pain. We should form a facebook group.

[Creepy-]

I dont think SLIs suck. The issues come up when you try to build closer relationships with them. You can only get so close to them and thats a hard pill to swallow. They can be warm and caring at one moment and cool and aloof the next time you see them. What happened? They dont want to talk about it. Infact they dont want to talk about anything. The harder you try to recreate those warm moments the more elusive they become. So you give up trying. Only problem is they did something to you that few people can do. They slipped you some kind of drug that went straight to your heart and now everything feels grey in comparison. How did this happen? When did you lose control? Back and forth, back and forth they play on your emotions. AAAhhRG! You just want to find them and grab them, shake some sense into them and make they love you... make them love you... (Topaz falls on the floor sobbing)

You know, I have observed this too... what I do [and this isn't contrived, which is maybe why it "works"] is just keep being friendly/whatever, ramble a bit or make my usual lame jokes... they warm back up after a while. Or, they don't, and that's that. But it isn't a permanent coldness. I think what bothers SLIs more than anything is when others "absorb" the bad mood they're sending out [unintentionally] and reflect it back at them. That absolutely seems to drive them crazy. But if you assume it's a temporary thing [which it usually is ime, and often extremely short-lived] and don't let it affect you [if that's possible], things bounce back.

[Creepy-male]

You know, I have observed this too... what I do [and this isn't contrived, which is maybe why it "works"] is just keep being friendly/whatever, ramble a bit or make my usual lame jokes... they warm back up after a while. Or, they don't, and that's that. But it isn't a permanent coldness. I think what bothers SLIs more than anything is when others "absorb" the bad mood they're sending out [unintentionally] and reflect it back at them. That absolutely seems to drive them crazy. But if you assume it's a temporary thing [which it usually is ime, and often extremely short-lived] and don't let it affect you [if that's possible], things bounce back.

+1

*starts casting summon greater Isha*

[jewels]

I dont think SLIs suck. The issues come up when you try to build closer relationships with them. You can only get so close to them and thats a hard pill to swallow. They can be warm and caring at one moment and cool and aloof the next time you see them. What happened? They dont want to talk about it. Infact they dont want to talk about anything. The harder you try to recreate those warm moments the more elusive they become. So you give up trying. Only problem is they did something to you that few people can do. They slipped you some kind of drug that went straight to your heart and now everything feels grey in comparison. How did this happen? When did you lose control? Back and forth, back and forth they play on your emotions. AAAhhRG! You just want to find them and grab them, shake some sense into them and make they love you... make them love you... (Topaz falls on the floor sobbing)

I just saw "500 days of summer" and this reminded me of that movie. That is super annoying and I'd be pissed if I were you.

But that's when an IEEs gotta sign up for a bunch of new things and make a bunch of new friends and in five minutes, it's all forgotten anyway once you meet the new chicks.

[Wrong Way Ticket]

You know, I have observed this too... what I do [and this isn't contrived, which is maybe why it "works"] is just keep being friendly/whatever, ramble a bit or make my usual lame jokes... they warm back up after a while. Or, they don't, and that's that. But it isn't a permanent coldness. I think what bothers SLIs more than anything is when others "absorb" the bad mood they're sending out [unintentionally] and reflect it back at them. That absolutely seems to drive them crazy. But if you assume it's a temporary thing [which it usually is ime, and often extremely short-lived] and don't let it affect you [if that's possible], things bounce back.

Mmmm.

[Topaz]

You know, I have observed this too... what I do [and this isn't contrived, which is maybe why it "works"] is just keep being friendly/whatever, ramble a bit or make my usual lame jokes... they warm back up after a while. Or, they don't, and that's that. But it isn't a permanent coldness. I think what bothers SLIs more than anything is when others "absorb" the bad mood they're sending out [unintentionally] and reflect it back at them. That absolutely seems to drive them crazy. But if you assume it's a temporary thing [which it usually is ime, and often extremely short-lived] and don't let it affect you [if that's possible], things bounce back.

Hmmm Thats a good point SOS. I do this with another SLI I know well. But he's a guy friend Ive known for a while. He's always in and out of moods. Im not interested in an intimate relationship with him either. So what if I dont see him for weeks or that he's grumpy? I dont really want that kind of relationship with a sweetheart.

[Creepy-]

I wouldn't mistake IEEs being "down on all SLIs" with those of us who have had bad experiences and relate them with each other. It doesn't mean we think all SLIs are bad eggs or the Cruella De Vil type.

Everyone is capable of treating someone else badly without realising it. IEEs are sensitive to it and need explanations.

I've met a couple really awesome SLIs. But only been romantically interested in SLIs that have treated me in such a fashion as described in previous thread. That's just my experience sorry. =[

Aw, don't be sorry :[ I didn't start this thread out of malice or anything; I'm genuinely curious to hear about people's experiences w SLIs, good and bad.

I have known one or two SLIs who could be very frustrating and even outright hurtful... so I get what people are saying about that. It's just that, I know far more very cool SLIs, so like I said in the other thread, I start to wonder about these stories I hear/read.

I guess the solution is to do what IEEs do well naturally anyway, which is find the people we mesh with... more than likely SLIs will be in that group, and the lame ones will be weeded out by our discerning Fi. Good luck to us all!

[Creepy-]

Hmmm Thats a good point SOS. I do this with another SLI I know well. But he's a guy friend Ive known for a while. He's always in and out of moods. Im not interested in an intimate relationship with him either. So what if I dont see him for weeks or that he's grumpy? I dont really want that kind of relationship with a sweetheart.

Thanks And YES, I identify w what you say here a lot! It took me a while to figure out that I need to get over whatever nervousness I have w a possible s.o. SLI and just be myself 24/7... which means doing what I described above. The thing is, ime, they will warm up and, in a solid relationship, not want to spend a terribly long time [weeks?!] apart bc they are thinking of you in that way too... no worries. Sometimes it sucks, but sometimes life sucks. Heh. And anyway, duality > whateverthehellelse

[jewels]

Thanks And YES, I identify w what you say here a lot! It took me a while to figure out that I need to get over whatever nervousness I have w a possible s.o. SLI and just be myself 24/7... which means doing what I described above. The thing is, ime, they will warm up and, in a solid relationship, not want to spend a terribly long time [weeks?!] apart bc they are thinking of you in that way too... no worries. Sometimes it sucks, but sometimes life sucks. Heh. And anyway, duality > whateverthehellelse

Well said. And I like this part: And anyway, duality > whateverthehellelse

[Wrong Way Ticket]

I think this thread more just proves that IEEs have three states. Unrelenting optimism, eager fence sitting and despondent acceptance.

[Creepy-]

Well said. And I like this part: And anyway, duality > whateverthehellelse

I think this thread more just proves that IEEs have three states. Unrelenting optimism, eager fence sitting and despondent acceptance.

Ahaha, it's funny bc it's true

[Lobo]

duality > whateverthehellelse

Oy... I don't believe that's necessarily true, but as of now I don't have a well formulated reason.

Anyway, I don't think SLI suck, I like them. Was I down on SLIs before? Idk if I was one of the "SLI downers" you were referring to.

[Creepy-male]

Ahaha, it's funny bc it's true

Heh, yeah.

[jessica129]

The only way I think I could ever be considered 'confusing' by a significant other would be because I never, ever know how I feel about someone...hence the 'push-pull' relationship. I mentally cannot be around someone 24/7. I need my own time to analyze how I feel about them and think about it and digest it all and take it slow. I find that most people don't want that. They want to immediately label it, know where they stand, how I feel about them, where it's going, blah blah blah and it turns me off instantly...so, I'll pull away then realize how much I miss them and then I'll go back to seeing them a lot and then even more expectations will be put on me then I get burnt out and the cycle continues. Basically, I hate expectations and answering to people.

[Creepy-male]

*finishes casting Summon Greater Isha*

I think what bothers SLIs more than anything is when others "absorb" the bad mood they're sending out [unintentionally] and reflect it back at them. That absolutely seems to drive them crazy. But if you assume it's a temporary thing [which it usually is ime, and often extremely short-lived] and don't let it affect you [if that's possible], things bounce back.

Confirmed by my resident go-to enSLIclopedia, Isha.

Unrelated, but something I do too is commenting when her mood has picked up after she's been more flat or quiet (or depressed). An interesting comment she made is that she's kind of emotionally unaware, so having that pointed out is helpful.

But anyway, I agree with the first half of your post. If she's not herself, I just keep being a Gul until she picks up again. That seems to work well

[Kim]

I think this thread more just proves that IEEs have three states. Unrelenting optimism, eager fence sitting and despondent acceptance.

With some sad sad teary evenings crying of a broken heart between the fence sitting and the despondent acceptance. But under normal circumstances, that phase should be short and be over with by morning. :wink:

[xyz]

Is that the consensus these days - what is this all about? It seems like I'm seeing a lot of posts about SLIs being manipulative and untrustworthy

I'm thinking that's the unhealthy ones... yes? SLIs, what say you?

Honestly? I think everyone here is just jealous. Which I think is hilarious cuz there's nothin to be jealous aboot.

And rather than repeating everything Jessica said I'll just say I agree 100% with her.

It could be that my personality just doesn't translate well over these 0's and 1's you guys call a "forum".

[Wynch]

I don't understand how you guys can hate on SLIs. SLIs are caring and lovable and reliable and refreshingly simple. They like life simple, comfortable and fun. Sure they need their alone time and they can be hard to read, but if you trust that they're going to be honest with you (which they prefer to do if you don't seem like you'll go off the deep end if they are) then they're actually really straightforward. If anything I think they mostly get curmudgeonly when you sit there over-complicating things because they want things to be simple and they want you to be happy.

Also, I think Jessica said it bang on. Hilariously enough, my SLI and I are both like that which made the beginning of our relationship actually work. No definitions, no clinging, no dating. We just spent time together, which gradually turned into more time together, which eased into physical time together, until it all came together into a relationship. We don't even have an anniversary date because neither of us knows when our relationship actually started, it just happened on it's own. Purely organic. So stop analyzing things and trying to pigeon-hole your SLIs and they'll stop being so claustrophobic. I would even go as far as to say that if you give SLIs a chance to warm up to you they stick like velcro, they're just stubborn and need to do it for themselves. Afterwards, they're cuddlebears

Hilarious side-note: you should see what happens when you inject SLIs with some Ne. They light up like Christmas, it's funny.

[thePirate]

People who hate them either dont understand them or are operating really selfishly. IEE's are more selfish then they let on. Maybe consider your gotdamn duals for a change.

Then there are the unhealthy ones, and those you watch out for.

Learn how they operate, theres an adjustment period. If you can sync up your grooves, thats where the magic happens.

[Creepy-]

Honestly? I think everyone here is just jealous. Which I think is hilarious cuz there's nothin to be jealous aboot.

Oh yes there is :wink:

[crazedrat]

I haven't seen manipulative and untrustworthy for SLI. cold, apathetic, detached, drug addict.. all those I've seen. But none of those traits annoy me.

[Park]

Well, the other possibility is that they don't get the emotional body language and signals that they send out. They're very rough. My SLI friend has a tendency to get randomly pissy and everyone walks on eggshells b/c they have no clue what she's irritated about. They may be uncomplicated, but they expect everyone else to be the same way they are. So when reality doesn't match the expectations and other people can't read their mind, it irritates the shit out of them.

This is kind of true... for me at least.

[tiny_dancer]

I don't understand how you guys can hate on SLIs. SLIs are caring and lovable and reliable and refreshingly simple. They like life simple, comfortable and fun. Sure they need their alone time and they can be hard to read, but if you trust that they're going to be honest with you (which they prefer to do if you don't seem like you'll go off the deep end if they are) then they're actually really straightforward. If anything I think they mostly get curmudgeonly when you sit there over-complicating things because they want things to be simple and they want you to be happy.

Also, I think Jessica said it bang on. Hilariously enough, my SLI and I are both like that which made the beginning of our relationship actually work. No definitions, no clinging, no dating. We just spent time together, which gradually turned into more time together, which eased into physical time together, until it all came together into a relationship. We don't even have an anniversary date because neither of us knows when our relationship actually started, it just happened on it's own. Purely organic. So stop analyzing things and trying to pigeon-hole your SLIs and they'll stop being so claustrophobic. I would even go as far as to say that if you give SLIs a chance to warm up to you they stick like velcro, they're just stubborn and need to do it for themselves. Afterwards, they're cuddlebears

Hilarious side-note: you should see what happens when you inject SLIs with some Ne. They light up like Christmas, it's funny.

Yes, I think this is why semi-dual relationships for them start up so easily. It's extremely difficult (let's just go ahead and say impossible) for me to be unconscious of my level of attraction for someone. I tried that, and it failed beyond miserably. And semi-duals have logical thinking in common, which makes it easier to relate as well. Much like it's easier initially for me to relate to SEIs... I honestly think there's only one way that I'll end up with an SLI in that fashion: I'll end up dating someone I'm not physically attracted to. That's the only way they'll be completely off my radar enough for them to actually like me.

[Park]

They can be warm and caring at one moment and cool and aloof the next time you see them. What happened? They dont want to talk about it. Infact they dont want to talk about anything. The harder you try to recreate those warm moments the more elusive they become. So you give up trying.

I cannot argue against this, either.

Only problem is they did something to you that few people can do. They slipped you some kind of drug that went straight to your heart and now everything feels grey in comparison. How did this happen? When did you lose control? Back and forth, back and forth they play on your emotions. AAAhhRG! You just want to find them and grab them, shake some sense into them and make they love you... make them love you...

Hey hey, take it easy, man. We're not THAT worthed, really.

(Topaz falls on the floor sobbing)

Come, let me buy you a beer, you seem a little distressed.

[JuJu]

I haven't seen manipulative and untrustworthy for SLI. cold, apathetic, detached, drug addict.. all those I've seen. But none of those traits annoy me.

cold..? drug addict..? SLIs..?

I can tell from your description that you lack an accurate conception of what an SLI is. Rather you've erroneously labeled certain betas (probably LSIs) as delta SLIs.

In general, SLIs are welcoming, relaxed-seeming, and (IMO) more independent than any other type. (Two SLIs I know have their own wood-working studios, where they spend hours alone, working.) They keep their own council, certainly.

Any Socionics type could be an addict -- however, SLIs are not one of the types one would generally associate with it... In general, Deltas do not often engage in the sort of excessive behavior associated with addiction. (Rare is the delta in the rooms of Narcotics Anonymous... Many are the betas.)

SLIs are much more gentle people than this forum's stereotype, which is based on the erroneous typings of many LSIs as SLIs -- and it's been going on for years.

[Park]

Yes, I think this is why semi-dual relationships for them start up so easily. It's extremely difficult (let's just go ahead and say impossible) for me to be unconscious of my level of attraction for someone. I tried that, and it failed beyond miserably. And semi-duals have logical thinking in common, which makes it easier to relate as well. Much like it's easier initially for me to relate to SEIs... I honestly think there's only one way that I'll end up with an SLI in that fashion: I'll end up dating someone I'm not physically attracted to. That's the only way they'll be completely off my radar enough for them to actually like me.

Or in other words, ILEs and SLIs are both emotionally retarded, and they are attracted through this similarity they percieve in each other.

[xyz]

Or in other words, ILEs and SLIs are both emotionally retarded, and they are attracted through this similarity they percieve in each other.

Actually I think it's more people chase what strikes em fancy rather than chasing someone that doesn't piss you off.

[Park]

Actually I think it's more people chase what strikes em fancy rather than chasing someone that doesn't piss you off.

What do you mean? I don't see the correlation you're implying.

[xyz]

What do you mean? I don't see the correlation you're implying.

You've never been with a girl you're extremely attracted to but inevitably pisses you off?

[Park]

You've never been with a girl you're extremely attracted to but inevitably pisses you off?

ah yeah, i see... and yes, I have... but i thought you were implying the opposite? that sli's are supposedly not like that?