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Thread: Why Gulenko types so many celebs as EIE

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    Default Why Gulenko types so many celebs as EIE

    It causes me bewilderment that many present schools of socionics, which type many celebrities equally as central and periphery types, are ignorant of the harsh realities of life. They probably, along with Aushra Augustinavichute, consider that the matter is not in the types themselves, but in their relationships. You’re aware of the old dispute about who is guilty: the people or the system? If we all become dualized, as Augustinavichute hoped, then people will become better. But this cannot be done without rearranging the large mass of people, i.e. by destroying and recreating anew the entire pyramid of social stratification. Isn’t it simpler to study people directly?
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    itt: life in Eastern Europe does suck really badly, and a large proportion of those celebrities probably are Eastern European. Keep that in mind.
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    I'd read Rick's critique of this hypothesis, (and another one, perhaps it was Expat's,) years ago... I'm no expert in it.

    I agree with Gulenko that "quadras are closer together than any other [Socionics] group; they are held together by mutually shared values."

    It's tough to truly make out what Gulenko's saying due to the ragged translation... What I was able to gather seemed pretty speculative though.


    Re: U.S. celebrities

    I've noticed that the U.S. shifted from a Gamma-celebrity culture to a Beta-celebrity culture sometime during the past 45 years... Pre-hippies, there were a ton of American Gamma celebrities--of all kinds, from actors to Presidents to inventors. Post-hippies, a dramatic shift toward beta.

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    Need more Delta celebrities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrong Way Ticket View Post
    Need more Delta celebrities.
    There are a few in Nascar and Golf... Other than that, Deltas tend to shy away (at least in American celebrity culture...) I've noticed that Deltas tend to work either in community institutions (hospitals, courts, universities, libraries) agriculture, etc. They seem to enjoy bucolic settings, although the ENFp seems to like life at a faster pace in general than other deltas.

    It's true. There are relatively few English-speaking Delta celebs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    itt: life in Eastern Europe does suck really badly, and a large proportion of those celebrities probably are Eastern European. Keep that in mind.
    IT USED TO SUCK.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sarinana View Post
    IT USED TO SUCK.
    Hhehe

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    Quote Originally Posted by JuJu View Post
    There are a few in Nascar and Golf...


    Other than that, Deltas tend to shy away (at least in American celebrity culture...) I've noticed that Deltas tend to work either in community institutions (hospitals, courts, universities, libraries) agriculture, etc. They seem to enjoy bucolic settings, although the ENFp seems to like life at a faster pace in general than other deltas.

    It's true. There are relatively few English-speaking Delta celebs.
    I've noticed this as well. Although they're famous Deltas here and there they tend to be famous more by "chance" than anything
    A few ST's, I've read about, seemed to have gotten involved in showbiz by an offer rather than going after seeking a career in it. And even than, they only seem to stick/stuck with it for the financial security it brought them

    Precarious work isn't something I would think most Deltas seek anyways, it would require too much of a sacrifice of comfort and security for themselves and their families
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    Hollywood as a whole is pretty blatantly EIE. I wouldn't be surprised if many movie stars and other Hollywood people come across as Beta NF, even if they're not, just as a consequence of "speaking the language" of celebrity culture.

    On the other side of the coin, of course, Beta NFs would be naturally drawn to such an environment, and would more naturally fit in and flourish as well.
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    It is odd that there are so few delta celebrities in the US, especially when it seems to me that the culture is so concerned with what seem to me to be delta values. I think that deltas tend to shy away from being in the limelight for any reason other than their performances, so they don't make the tabloids and the evening news, etc. That being said, there are definitely some IEEs that are famous, but perhaps they tend to be in the news/magazines/etc less. Also, don't a lot of people think that Hugh Grant is in the delta quadra? Maybe we love our celebrities precisely because they transgress our ethical norms (ethical norms of which deltas are often considered to be the guardians)?

    Anyway, what little of that article I read seemed like bs, especially the bit about how gammas and betas are concerned with money and authority while alphas and deltas are concerned with "the virtues of knowledge and humane relations". There doesn't even seem to be an attempt on the part of the author to mitigate the influence of his/her personal biases, those very biases of which socionics ought to help in making him/her aware. Besides, it's difficult to associate many philosophers and poets with anything besides Ni-ego or -leading, but Ni is that very information element which (apparently) leads to quadras that are primarily concerned with money and authority instead of knowledge. I also reject the idea that members of the same quadra tend to have the same values; that's easily proven false by looking at history, and people too often forget that factors beyond socionics tend to have a larger effect on people's belief system than socionics. But, all that whining aside, it is a somewhat interesting theory.
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    Who writes this and what does s/he mean with "central" and "periferal" types?

    edit:
    Written by Gulenko

    central = Resolute
    periferal = Reasonable

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gulenko
    Temperaments play the role of the sensory subsystem of socionics. The selection of the type of activity is the role of the intuitive subsystem. Quadras are closer together than any other group, they are connected by their mutually held values; therefore they are the ethical subsystem of socionics. The groups of social progress reflect the process of the formation of socially expected behavior and control in the observance of socially approved norms. They include the mechanisms of social development; therefore, they form the intuitive subsystem of socionics.
    This part is really hard to take seriously. It's an induction step of tcaudilllgian proportions (which is not a good thing).

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    Yeah Gulenko is kinda ignorant when it comes to other people's values. It's a consequence of being an LSI EM type. Instead he tries to make model A socionics explain political differences, which it clearly does not.

    Altogether it can be said that Gulenko is not in his element when it comes to psychology. I suspect he is interested in socionics simply because the EM dualizing content available to him was so mediocre at the time he signed on. (especially in the former USSR, where personal conviction was forbidden). However he has made numerous contributions to the methodology of socionics; it's just the phenomenology which he has tenuous grasp of.

    If there is no dualizing content available, Gulenko reasoned, he would create it for himself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    This part is really hard to take seriously. It's an induction step of tcaudilllgian proportions (which is not a good thing).
    On the other hand, the guy gets an adjective all his own, so he can't be all bad.
    ("And makes the word Miltonic mean sublime..."). The real question is, how do we pronounce that adjective?
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

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    Australian culture rewards humility, practicality, and approachability. You're likely to be snubbed if you are too ambitious or charismatic.
    Whereas American culture only thinks it rewards those things, but in actuality has not strayed at all from its gamma/beta Emerson/Whitman roots. Or maybe it's just the American poetry culture, which I hope isn't the case, because poets tend to anticipate culture change, and I hope America doesn't become even more delta. Ambition and charisma make the world go 'round. Wheee! (also, some IEEs can be charismatic, even some LSEs, I guess. Just not in the cool fun beta way).
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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    Damn we Americans need to take a cue from the Australians, then.

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    Another thing to note is the Tall Poppy Syndrome that's rather prevalent here and in New Zealand. There's this cultural expectation that you won't flaunt your success or fame. A good example of this is Dick Smith, who gives a lot of his decently impressive wealth to charity and the like.

    Also, there's a fair concentration of sporting celebrities here, too (the cricketers especially). I'm not sure how that compares to America.

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    There are plenty of Delta celebrities, you just type them as merry lol.
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