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Thread: Evidence of the Climate Hoax

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    Default Evidence of the Climate Hoax

    There are some electronic files that had been stolen from a prominent climate research center and made public last week. The U.N. IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) had said that the evidence was unequivocal, despite the fact that there is no consensus within the scientific community. Private exchanges among climate scientists at Britain’s Climate Research Unit of the University of East Anglia reveal an intellectual circle that appears to feel very much under attack and eager to punish its enemies. I have communicated with people over many times over that these people aim to shape the public perception, including the issue of global warming. Google “Climategate,” which involves conspiracy to exaggerate climate data.

    Read more info here: http://www.impactlab.com/2009/11/22/...-center-stage/
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    -- Mark Twain

    "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
    -- Confucius

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    “will keep them out somehow — even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!”

    "Alleged CRU Email - 1047388489.txt"
    Alleged CRU Emails - Searchable
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    -- Mark Twain

    "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
    -- Confucius

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    I have more information coming to me. This thread is not over!
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    -- Mark Twain

    "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
    -- Confucius

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    ITZ ALL A KONSPEARASEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

    Sorry...I had to say it.
    ﴾ لَهُمْ دَارُ السَّلاَمِ عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ وَهُوَ وَلِيُّهُمْ بِمَا كَانُواْ يَعْمَلُونَ ﴿
    "When you see an evil act you have to stop it with your hand.
    If you can't, then at least speak out against it with your tongue.
    If you can't, then at least you have to hate it with all your heart.
    And this is the weakest of faith."

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    I don't like the doomsday rhetoric of the climate change group but deregulation is not a solution nor is the Michelle Malkin crowd likely to create a pragmatic solutions to more efficient industry. The ideologues on both side will simply create a situation of the most ineffective compromise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    Yeah this is a bombshell.
    Nah. Some of us have seen through the scam long ago. One interesting thing would be to get down to the names and pictures of the main characters, for Socionics VI.


    Some of the ringleaders playing the "guru"/"scientist"/"priest" role seem to be:

    Michael Mann
    Phil Jones

    Benjamin Santer
    Keith Briffa
    Kevin Trenberth

    Jonathan Overpeck
    Tom Wigley

    Edit: Some of these seem to be masters of social engineering and 1-1 smooth talking and salesmanship.


    Also, James Hansen plays the "man of wisdom and authority" game. Gavin Schmidt (the realclimate.org guy) seems more like a dedicated PR guy for the crew. Both are NASA employees.

    I'd like someone to post pics of this gang for VI and discussions of their individual roles in the Global Warming community here, along with an analysis of the group dynamics.

    I'm too lazy and depressed right now to accomplish much.

    Some pics can be downloaded from here:
    CRU staff
    Last edited by ragnar; 11-24-2009 at 03:33 AM. Reason: clarification
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    The global warming con is funny as shit. What a bunch of fucking morons.

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    Nice to find out with such certainty. Usually these things are left so vague you can't make up your mind. I never worried too much about it, to be honest.
    INTp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbean View Post
    “will keep them out somehow — even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!”

    "Alleged CRU Email - 1047388489.txt"
    Alleged CRU Emails - Searchable
    Wait, what are you quoting? That line doesn't appear anywhere in that link.

    The only relevant bit in that link is this:
    The phrasing of the questions at the start of the paper determine the answer they
    get. They
    have no idea what multiproxy averaging does. By their logic, I could argue 1998 wasn't
    the
    warmest year globally, because it wasn't the warmest everywhere. With their LIA being
    1300-
    1900 and their MWP 800-1300, there appears (at my quick first reading) no discussion of
    synchroneity of the cool/warm periods. Even with the instrumental record, the early and
    late
    20th century warming periods are only significant locally at between 10-20% of grid
    boxes.
    Writing this I am becoming more convinced we should do something - even if this is
    just
    to state once and for all what we mean by the LIA and MWP. I think the skeptics will
    use
    this paper to their own ends and it will set paleo back a number of years if it goes
    unchallenged.
    That doesn't sound like the machinations of a master plotter, it's just someone writing about idiot "skeptics" who misinterpret scientific data to make the world fit into their comfortable version of the truth.
    The saddest ESFj

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    I don't like the doomsday rhetoric of the climate change group but deregulation is not a solution nor is the Michelle Malkin crowd likely to create a pragmatic solutions to more efficient industry. The ideologues on both side will simply create a situation of the most ineffective compromise.
    Indeed.

    I'd say "unfortunately, I agree with you" or "regrettably, I agree with you", but

    I'm realizing that even the mention of unfortune or regret is simply a matter of nuance in terms of how things actually work.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Global warming is nonsense. Nothing needs to be done because there is no problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    Global warming is nonsense. Nothing needs to be done because there is no problem.
    Why don't you tell me how you really feel, stop with this pretense so as to not hurt my feelings!
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sema sahin View Post
    ITZ ALL A KONSPEARASEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

    Sorry...I had to say it.
    It is actually...


    Alleged CRU Emails - Searchable

    Alleged CRU Emails - Searchable

    Alleged CRU Emails - Searchable

    PS Re CR, I do not know the best way to handle the specifics of the
    editoring. Hans von Storch is partly to blame -- he encourages the
    publication of crap science 'in order to stimulate debate'. One approach
    is to go direct to the publishers and point out the fact that their
    journal is perceived as being a medium for disseminating misinformation
    under the guise of refereed work. I use the word 'perceived' here, since
    whether it is true or not is not what the publishers care about -- it is
    how the journal is seen by the community that counts.

    I think we could get a large group of highly credentialed scientists to
    sign such a letter -- 50+ people.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_von_Storch
    Last edited by Jimbean; 11-24-2009 at 06:13 PM.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    -- Mark Twain

    "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
    -- Confucius

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    He said that global warming exists:

    * Based on the scientific evidence, I am convinced that we are facing anthropogenic climate change brought about by the emission of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. [1]

    He is also known for his article in Der Spiegel in which he warns against exaggerated reports by scientists which want to catch the attention of public. He states in this article that:

    * "Scientific research faces a crisis because its public figures are overselling the issues to gain attention in a hotly contested market for newsworthy information." [2]

    * "The alarmists think that climate change is something extremely dangerous, extremely bad and that overselling a little bit, if it serves a good purpose, is not that bad."[1]

    It's stupid to say that there is no such thing as greenhouse effect or climate change, of course there's climate change and humans are a factor in it no doubt. How much, what policies and etc are what's important. In the creation of more efficient technology, new methodology and regulation against the excesses of industrialization, these are important contributions to the enviromental effort that's beyond the alarmists.

    Most of the people who are really heavily into debunking climate change are actually in a real conspiracy to deregulate industry and these are the same people that hide toxic waste dumping amongst other reprehensible activities. Their motives are even more reprehensible then the alarmists.

    Unfortunately there are many people like discojoe who are pretty much resentful losers who feel a great deal of envy towards the intellectuals and liberal middle class who are typically better looking, higher earning and more educated. These losers are basically manipulated by a very sophisticated and self-interested group of wealthy industrialists who wish to earn more money and pad their own pockets. See the listing for Rupert Murdoch. As a group these people are the same that protested integration in schools, flooded out of the cities after desegregation and a collection of fascist leaning degenerates.

    Ok.. ok.. maybe that's a bit harsh, I have to give they are mostly just average people who are trying to live a decent life but their resentment and natural inclinations is very easily manipulated into movements like the Tea Party, etc.

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    hmm... Imagine 50 years from now, We are all dead because of global warming, then we look back at this thread...
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 07490 View Post
    50 years from now, We are all dead ..., then we look back at this thread...
    Greetings, ragnar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    Why don't you tell me how you really feel, stop with this pretense so as to not hurt my feelings!
    Nice.

    Anyway, this global cooling period sure is nice. Last year, we had the worst winter in a hundred years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Unfortunately there are many people like discojoe who are pretty much resentful losers who feel a great deal of envy towards the intellectuals and liberal middle class who are typically better looking, higher earning and more educated. These losers are basically manipulated by a very sophisticated and self-interested group of wealthy industrialists who wish to earn more money and pad their own pockets. See the listing for Rupert Murdoch. As a group these people are the same that protested integration in schools, flooded out of the cities after desegregation and a collection of fascist leaning degenerates.
    Please explain this better.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    -- Mark Twain

    "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
    -- Confucius

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    He said that global warming exists:

    * Based on the scientific evidence, I am convinced that we are facing anthropogenic climate change brought about by the emission of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. [1]

    He is also known for his article in Der Spiegel in which he warns against exaggerated reports by scientists which want to catch the attention of public. He states in this article that:

    * "Scientific research faces a crisis because its public figures are overselling the issues to gain attention in a hotly contested market for newsworthy information." [2]

    * "The alarmists think that climate change is something extremely dangerous, extremely bad and that overselling a little bit, if it serves a good purpose, is not that bad."[1]

    It's stupid to say that there is no such thing as greenhouse effect or climate change, of course there's climate change and humans are a factor in it no doubt. How much, what policies and etc are what's important. In the creation of more efficient technology, new methodology and regulation against the excesses of industrialization, these are important contributions to the enviromental effort that's beyond the alarmists.

    Most of the people who are really heavily into debunking climate change are actually in a real conspiracy to deregulate industry and these are the same people that hide toxic waste dumping amongst other reprehensible activities. Their motives are even more reprehensible then the alarmists.

    Unfortunately there are many people like discojoe who are pretty much resentful losers who feel a great deal of envy towards the intellectuals and liberal middle class who are typically better looking, higher earning and more educated. These losers are basically manipulated by a very sophisticated and self-interested group of wealthy industrialists who wish to earn more money and pad their own pockets. See the listing for Rupert Murdoch. As a group these people are the same that protested integration in schools, flooded out of the cities after desegregation and a collection of fascist leaning degenerates.
    ^ this

    Global warming is real. Mankind is a major cause of it. Airborn toxins aren't going anywhere, they've shown that in the lab, with chemistry.

    I agree that the anti-global warming people should be frozen out of science journals. Same bunch which said we should deregulate the banks.

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    My seventh grade textbook had a chart showing the weather patterns over the years. Nothing abnormal. My dad says there was a 'global freezing' scare back when he was a kid. Of course it's a conspiracy, though not necessarily on purpose. I wish global warming did exist; it's below 60 out, and it's cold.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbean View Post
    Please explain this better.





    See the similarity...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbean View Post
    Please explain this better.
    Don't bother. Attempts by liberals to logically defend their views almost inevitably end up as nothing more than straw men, name-calling, and character assassination.

    Saying that my factually based global warming stance occupies the same moral altitude as the racial views of anti-integration southerners is a classic example of this kind of behavior.

    No, I'm not a racist. Yes, global warming is false. No, I'm not uneducated.

    Global warming proponents: In twenty years I will be LMAO @ U.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    My dad says there was a 'global freezing' scare back when he was a kid.
    A quick search on google gives links to the classic article in the April 28, 1975 issue of Newsweek, where we were informed "scientists" had found out the world was about to perish from global cooling.

    There has been all kinds of scares, ranging from global cyanide poisoning due to Earth's orbit crossing the tail of Comet Halley (early 1900s) to Martian invasion to an "ozone hole" caused by refrigerators to " Nuclear Winter" to ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    My seventh grade textbook had a chart showing the weather patterns over the years. Nothing abnormal. My dad says there was a 'global freezing' scare back when he was a kid. Of course it's a conspiracy, though not necessarily on purpose. I wish global warming did exist; it's below 60 out, and it's cold.
    My 7th grade text book didn't know what Vitamin E was. In a chart with all the vitamins and what they did, under Vitamin E it said "unknown". No joke.
    The saddest ESFj

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    See the similarity...
    no

    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    Same bunch which said we should deregulate the banks.
    The Glass Steagall Act was repealed in 1999 with the help of bankers that were in Clinton's administration and now in Obama's, and Wall Street was the benefactor. There were good natured people who did not foresee the method of the central banking regime who helped in the deregulation, and Republicans in the House who were convinced or lobbied (since Republicans traditionally deregulate) that voted for it.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    -- Mark Twain

    "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
    -- Confucius

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    Nice.

    Anyway, this global cooling period sure is nice. Last year, we had the worst winter in a hundred years.
    Why rely on scientists to calculate thousands of years worth of data when you can just go outside, say "it's fucking cold" and be done with it? Global warming solved!

    the data is right here:
    Observed Temperature & Greenhouse Gas Trends | Pew Center on Global Climate Change: The Pew Center on Global Climate Change

    Yes, there was a dip in temperature in the 1940s, but when you look at the broader trend.... temperatures are rising quite rapidly. These points you're all bringing up have been proven wrong again and again.
    The saddest ESFj

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    Quote Originally Posted by electric sheep View Post
    the data is right here:
    The main point is that the data can NOT be assumed to be "right here".

    It's likely to be hidden, obfuscated, twisted, cherrypicked, deleted, cooked, and finally graphed in various "creative" ways to get the results desired by people who need there to be a "climate crisis".

    Even if the front figures who present them (like f.i. high school teachers) themselves may be thoroughly honest.
    Last edited by ragnar; 11-25-2009 at 02:29 AM. Reason: sp
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    Why does there have to be something more to it? Why can't the data be right, the scientists be honest, and people be responsible for climate change? What's difficult to accept about that? Of all the scientists that are part of the big scientific organizations, why do they all share the same opinions on climate change?
    The saddest ESFj

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    Quote Originally Posted by electric sheep View Post
    Of all the scientists that are part of the big scientific organizations, why do they all share the same opinions on climate change?
    I see your point, a surprising number of apparently honest and highly intelligent academics seem to have fallen for the scam. I was duped too, for a while.

    The question is highly interesting, my present opinion is that the answer has to do with two or three different mindsets that are more common in academia than outside.
    Last edited by ragnar; 11-25-2009 at 03:28 AM. Reason: clarity
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbean View Post
    The Glass Steagall Act was repealed in 1999 with the help of bankers that were in Clinton's administration and now in Obama's, and Wall Street was the benefactor. There were good natured people who did not foresee the method of the central banking regime who helped in the deregulation, and Republicans in the House who were convinced or lobbied (since Republicans traditionally deregulate) that voted for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by wiki
    The bill that ultimately repealed the Act was introduced in the Senate by Phil Gramm (Republican of Texas) and in the House of Representatives by Jim Leach (R-Iowa) in 1999. The bills were passed by a Republican majority....
    Wait so this was the fault of the Clinton administration?

    U.S. Senate: Legislation & Records Home > Votes > Roll Call Vote

    Abraham (R-MI), Yea
    Akaka (D-HI), Nay
    Allard (R-CO), Yea
    Ashcroft (R-MO), Yea
    Baucus (D-MT), Nay
    Bayh (D-IN), Nay
    Bennett (R-UT), Yea
    Biden (D-DE), Nay
    Bingaman (D-NM), Nay
    Bond (R-MO), Yea
    Boxer (D-CA), Nay
    Breaux (D-LA), Nay
    Brownback (R-KS), Yea
    Bryan (D-NV), Nay
    Bunning (R-KY), Yea
    Burns (R-MT), Yea
    Byrd (D-WV), Nay
    Campbell (R-CO), Yea
    Chafee, J. (R-RI), Yea
    Cleland (D-GA), Nay
    Cochran (R-MS), Yea
    Collins (R-ME), Yea
    Conrad (D-ND), Nay
    Coverdell (R-GA), Yea
    Craig (R-ID), Yea
    Crapo (R-ID), Yea
    Daschle (D-SD), Nay
    DeWine (R-OH), Yea
    Dodd (D-CT), Nay
    Domenici (R-NM), Yea
    Dorgan (D-ND), Nay
    Durbin (D-IL), Nay
    Edwards (D-NC), Nay
    Enzi (R-WY), Yea
    Feingold (D-WI), Nay
    Feinstein (D-CA), Nay
    Fitzgerald (R-IL), Present
    Frist (R-TN), Yea
    Gorton (R-WA), Yea
    Graham (D-FL), Nay
    Gramm (R-TX), Yea
    Grams (R-MN), Yea
    Grassley (R-IA), Yea
    Gregg (R-NH), Yea
    Hagel (R-NE), Yea
    Harkin (D-IA), Nay
    Hatch (R-UT), Yea
    Helms (R-NC), Yea
    Hollings (D-SC), Yea
    Hutchinson (R-AR), Yea
    Hutchison (R-TX), Yea
    Inhofe (R-OK), Not Voting
    Inouye (D-HI), Nay
    Jeffords (R-VT), Yea
    Johnson (D-SD), Nay
    Kennedy (D-MA), Nay
    Kerrey (D-NE), Nay
    Kerry (D-MA), Nay
    Kohl (D-WI), Nay
    Kyl (R-AZ), Yea
    Landrieu (D-LA), Nay
    Lautenberg (D-NJ), Nay
    Leahy (D-VT), Nay
    Levin (D-MI), Nay
    Lieberman (D-CT), Nay
    Lincoln (D-AR), Nay
    Lott (R-MS), Yea
    Lugar (R-IN), Yea
    Mack (R-FL), Yea
    McCain (R-AZ), Yea
    McConnell (R-KY), Yea
    Mikulski (D-MD), Nay
    Moynihan (D-NY), Nay
    Murkowski (R-AK), Yea
    Murray (D-WA), Nay
    Nickles (R-OK), Yea
    Reed (D-RI), Nay
    Reid (D-NV), Nay
    Robb (D-VA), Nay
    Roberts (R-KS), Yea
    Rockefeller (D-WV), Nay
    Roth (R-DE), Yea
    Santorum (R-PA), Yea
    Sarbanes (D-MD), Nay
    Schumer (D-NY), Nay
    Sessions (R-AL), Yea
    Shelby (R-AL), Yea
    Smith (R-NH), Yea
    Smith (R-OR), Yea
    Snowe (R-ME), Yea
    Specter (R-PA), Yea
    Stevens (R-AK), Yea
    Thomas (R-WY), Yea
    Thompson (R-TN), Yea
    Thurmond (R-SC), Yea
    Torricelli (D-NJ), Nay
    Voinovich (R-OH), Yea
    Warner (R-VA), Yea
    Wellstone (D-MN), Nay
    Wyden (D-OR), Nay

    Look at the senate voting record.... D.... Nay? R.... Yea?
    There seems to be a lot of "good natured people" who voted party lines and a lot of other banking scoundrels that voted against measures which were part of their devious scheme to control banking. Bullshit, it was passed by a conservative congress with little hope of presidential veto, thus it became law. Republican agenda, Republican congress and aggravated by 8 years of total fiscal mismanagement by the Bush administration.

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    Don't bother. Attempts by liberals to logically defend their views almost inevitably end up as nothing more than straw men, name-calling, and character assassination.

    Saying that my factually based global warming stance occupies the same moral altitude as the racial views of anti-integration southerners is a classic example of this kind of behavior.

    No, I'm not a racist. Yes, global warming is false. No, I'm not uneducated.
    Pay attention to the sign in the back. You sure that's not you? Wait damn, he's hiding...

    It matters little whether "global warming" doomsday scenarios are true or false(doomsday scenarios of all sorts hopefully won't happen and we'll still be around in 20 years), since in 20 years people will still be studying climate change and there will still be people that will say the world will end in 50 and others who will say that that there is no need to regulate our industries. Never the less there is real effort on efficiency being done and if not in the good ole USA, somewhere where there is the political will to make such advancements despite rhetorical shenanigans on both sides.

    At least much of American industry is smart enough to know that efficiency and conservation aren't bad for business even if the doomsday scenario are largely fantasy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Wait so this was the fault of the Clinton administration?

    U.S. Senate: Legislation & Records Home > Votes > Roll Call Vote

    (voting record of senators on the repeal of Glass Steagall Act)

    Look at the senate voting record.... D.... Nay? R.... Yea?
    The above expands on half of what I have already said.


    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    There seems to be a lot of "good natured people" who voted party lines and a lot of other banking scoundrels that voted against measures which were part of their devious scheme to control banking. Bullshit, it was passed by a conservative congress with little hope of presidential veto, thus it became law. Republican agenda, Republican congress and aggravated by 8 years of total fiscal mismanagement by the Bush administration.
    I think this statement is in part a misunderstanding of what I posted earlier and part Hkkmr's bias of political parties.

    A Decade Without Glass-Steagall: Heckofa Job, Larry : Rolling Stone : National Affairs Daily

    Today marks a decade since the repeal of Glass-Steagall Act, the Depression-era safeguard that prohibited the commingling of commercial and investment banks. The deregulation gave rise to all-in-one financial behemoths like Citi, ushered in the too-big-to-fail era, and nearly toppled the global financial system.
    The hubris expressed during the signing ceremony at the Old Executive Office Building ten years ago today will make you throw up in your mouth a little.

    Take it away, President Clinton:

    "I think you should all be exceedingly proud of yourselves… today what we are doing is modernizing the financial services industry, tearing down these antiquated laws and granting banks significant new authority. This will save consumers billions of dollars a year through enhanced competition."

    Hit it Phil Gramm:

    "In the 1930s, at the trough of the Depression, when Glass-Steagall became law, it was believed that government was the answer. It was believed that stability and growth came from government overriding the functioning of free markets. We are here today to repeal Glass-Steagall because we have learned that government is not the answer. We have learned that freedom and competition are the answers. We have learned that we promote economic growth, and we promote stability, by having competition and freedom. I am proud to be here because this is an important bill. It is a deregulatory bill. I believe that that is the wave of the future. And I am awfully proud to have been part of making it a reality." (Applause.)

    It’s easy to lampoon the vile likes of the former Texas senator, who continues to profiteer from his deregulation as a Vice Chairman of UBS. But what’s more galling is how many of the key players in this debacle are still shaping policy today.
    Start at the top with then Treasury secretary, now Obama economics czar Larry Summers, who boldly declared that the deregulation would “benefit American consumers, business, and the national economy for many years to come.”
    Other men and women who also got shout outs that day include:
    Gary Gensler, then a treasury undersecretary, today the head of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission.
    Gene Sperling, then head of Clinton’s National Economics Council, now a senior counselor to Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner.
    and
    Linda Robertson, another assistant Treasury secretary, (she’d briefly become an Enron lobbyist) who is now a senior adviser to the Federal Reserve trying to sell congress on Obama’s proposal to give the Fed massive new powers.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    -- Mark Twain

    "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
    -- Confucius

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    There is another piece of information that I am about to get that should make this debate interesting.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    -- Mark Twain

    "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
    -- Confucius

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbean View Post
    I think this statement is in part a misunderstanding of what I posted earlier and part Hkkmr's bias of political parties.

    A Decade Without Glass-Steagall: Heckofa Job, Larry : Rolling Stone : National Affairs Daily
    Lawmaking is congressional not presidential. I have no problem with the people mentioned being removed from government entirely and I believe they should be. I don't care about parties, I care about policy, and the Republicans and other even more right wing groups are at the forefront of deregulation propaganda and lobbying. The fact that they managed to con so many others into their schemes and continue to promote the same policies in the face of issues is the problem.

    The fact remains the Democrat in the senate during that time rejected as a group these proposals, but the majority in Congress was enough to pass the bill, and the members of congress decided it was better to let this bill pass and get some other measures included.

    How about we put the Glass-Steagall act back, I don't think it will be a collection of conservative ideologues who seek further deregulation who will do this. So when you talk about policy and who is more likely to promote and enact policy which I agree with, there lies my support.

    As far as the blame, the onus goes to the promoters, lobbyists and lawmakers, as these were premeditated on their part. Neglect and lack of foresight can be attributed to the President, but the compromise that had occurred at this time ensured that a veto was impossible, who at this time was exiting office.

    The people that are free from this particular event in history are those that voted against this bill. 16 republicans voted nay/abstain in the house, 69/abstain democrats and the lone Independent/Socialist(Home: U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders (Vermont)) voted nay.

    Out of the senate, 2 republicans voted nay/abstain and 6 Democrats voted nay/abstain on the compromise. The lone independent(ex-Republican) Jim Jeffords(friend of Bernie) voted nay..

    Note the two independents are moderate to liberal voting and leaning members of Congress.

    So if you want to pass the blame from conservatives to liberals within the context of repealing Glass-Steagall, that is just malarkey.

    By the voting record on this event, we should all be democratic socialists..
    Last edited by mu4; 11-25-2009 at 08:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Lawmaking is congressional not presidential. I have no problem with the people mentioned being removed from government entirely and I believe they should be. I don't care about parties, I care about policy, and the Republicans and other even more right wing groups are at the forefront of deregulation propaganda and lobbying. The fact that they managed to con so many others into their schemes and continue to promote the same policies in the face of issues is the problem.

    The fact remains the Democrat in the senate during that time rejected as a group these proposals, but the majority in Congress was enough to pass the bill, and the members of congress decided it was better to let this bill pass and get some other measures included.

    How about we put the Glass-Steagall act back, I don't think it will be a collection of conservative ideologues who seek further deregulation who will do this. So when you talk about policy and who is more likely to promote and enact policy which I agree with, there lies my support.

    As far as the blame, the onus goes to the promoters, lobbyists and lawmakers, as these were premeditated on their part. Neglect and lack of foresight can be attributed to the President, but the compromise that had occurred at this time ensured that a veto was impossible, who at this time was exiting office.

    The people that are free from this particular event in history are those that voted against this bill. 16 republicans voted nay/abstain in the house, 69/abstain democrats and the lone Independent/Socialist(Home: U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders (Vermont)) voted nay.

    Out of the senate, 2 republicans voted nay/abstain and 6 Democrats voted nay/abstain on the compromise. The lone independent(ex-Republican) Jim Jeffords(friend of Bernie) voted nay..

    Note the two independents are moderate to liberal voting and leaning members of Congress.

    So if you want to pass the blame from conservatives to liberals within the context of repealing Glass-Steagall, that is just malarkey.

    By the voting record on this event, we should all be democratic socialists..
    I'll take you on in another thread.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    -- Mark Twain

    "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
    -- Confucius

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    Quote Originally Posted by 07490 View Post
    hmm... Imagine 50 years from now, We are all dead because of global warming, then we look back at this thread...
    This sentence is totally worth the laughs.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Spend at least 50 hours researching the science of climate change, study all the claims and counter-claims, the accusations and refutations. Watch a few documentaries both supporting and debunking global warming, then get online and read commentaries on these documentaries. Which side do the facts ultimately seem to support?

    Then, consider who stands to win and lose from each side of the debate. Find out who the 7 richest corporations in the world are (6 are oil and gas companies, the 7th is Walmart) and think which side they might be supporting and why.

    Then, look at individual climate scientists' opinions on the subject of global warming: do they privately think it is more or less serious than the public is made to believe (answer: they actually downplay the risks for the public in order to not depress them)?

    Look at the leaked e-mails. Read analysis from both sides. Look at the e-mails themselves: do the questionable e-mails demonstrate that the climate scientists involved do not believe in global warming, or anthropogenic global warming? or do they demonstrate unethical conduct?

    Find out what the Australians' view of global warming is: is it happening or not? What do the Europeans think? What do the leaders of China and India think, whose countries are just getting on the fossil fuel track to success? Surely of all countries in the world China and India would be most interested in debunking the threat of anthropogenic global warming. What do the poorly educated African nations think?

    Finally, just thinking logically, could the conversion of billions and billions of tons of extremely energy-dense fossil fuels into kinetic energy and ultimately heat over the course of many decades somehow affect the Earth in any tangible way?

    Hmmm....
    It is easier for the eye of a camel to pass through a rich man than for a needle to enter the kingdom of heaven.

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    It is easier for the eye of a camel to pass through a rich man than for a needle to enter the kingdom of heaven.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    Spend at least 50 hours researching the science of climate change, study all the claims and counter-claims, the accusations and refutations. Watch a few documentaries both supporting and debunking global warming, then get online and read commentaries on these documentaries. Which side do the facts ultimately seem to support?

    Then, consider who stands to win and lose from each side of the debate. Find out who the 7 richest corporations in the world are (6 are oil and gas companies, the 7th is Walmart) and think which side they might be supporting and why.

    Then, look at individual climate scientists' opinions on the subject of global warming: do they privately think it is more or less serious than the public is made to believe (answer: they actually downplay the risks for the public in order to not depress them)?

    Look at the leaked e-mails. Read analysis from both sides. Look at the e-mails themselves: do the questionable e-mails demonstrate that the climate scientists involved do not believe in global warming, or anthropogenic global warming? or do they demonstrate unethical conduct?

    Find out what the Australians' view of global warming is: is it happening or not? What do the Europeans think? What do the leaders of China and India think, whose countries are just getting on the fossil fuel track to success? Surely of all countries in the world China and India would be most interested in debunking the threat of anthropogenic global warming. What do the poorly educated African nations think?

    Finally, just thinking logically, could the conversion of billions and billions of tons of extremely energy-dense fossil fuels into kinetic energy and ultimately heat over the course of many decades somehow affect the Earth in any tangible way?

    Hmmm....
    Now who the hell is going to spend 50 hours, or 50 minutes, doing any of that?

    mhm...
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    Now who the hell is going to spend 50 hours, or 50 minutes, doing any of that?
    Anyone who wants to have a basic command of climate change science and form an independent opinion on the issue of anthropogenic global warming. Anyone who claims to know more than the IPCC and yet has not done this is just full of hot air (pun intended).
    It is easier for the eye of a camel to pass through a rich man than for a needle to enter the kingdom of heaven.

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