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Thread: Delta Lounge

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    haha their loss, but your point is well taken
    In past somewhere I pointed the case when you was not honest.
    Also I saw a human which said like "I never lie" and that human was among the most liers I ever knew.
    So would be not loss, but Te reason and experience.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    if you pointed to a case where I was not honest just means you were wrong

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    Sometimes, in playful moments, I find myself imitating the qualities of my dual. I think of times in the past where it has been fun being around them, and I think about what I like. Replicating that behavior, that playful nature, is an attempt to replicate that feel good.

    I wonder if other people do this too.

    Considering we value the same functions - and in Delta that's Ne, Fi, Te, Si, it should be of no great surprise. I wonder if other Deltas imitate their duals at times also?

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    I find it impossible to consciously imitate the qualities of my duals. When I want to feel good, I have to seek one out and interact with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by at sirac son of sirac View Post
    Sometimes, in playful moments, I find myself imitating the qualities of my dual. I think of times in the past where it has been fun being around them, and I think about what I like. Replicating that behavior, that playful nature, is an attempt to replicate that feel good.

    I wonder if other people do this too.

    Considering we value the same functions - and in Delta that's Ne, Fi, Te, Si, it should be of no great surprise. I wonder if other Deltas imitate their duals at times also?
    Hello, sweetheart. I just came back from the office meeting. I will now fold the clothes while you go and make dinner. Don't burn the steak this time, but don't make it too raw either. I told you what the perfect temperature for steak was. If you need my help again, just ask. Also, don't forget to circle the items that you think would look good for our living room in the Ikea catalogue that i left on the coffee table. I will give you my opinion on them as soon as i'm done filing this report for the CEO.
    Currently trying to regain what I lost. And if that's not possible, at least gain new things while trying to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I find it impossible to consciously imitate the qualities of my duals. When I want to feel good, I have to seek one out and interact with them.
    I think with some comedians, for instance SLI Rowan Atkinson, when he plays some of his characters, like Mr Bean, it's kind of like an attempt to play his dual. He's like an infantile type of character. It's not dual, superficial yes, but there's signs of it there.

    I knew an IEE who imitated SLI, or perhaps LSE, becoming very business like in work related matters whilst working at home. Perhaps you need to be around some serious ethical situation, might be different for each type, possibly.

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    I might be able to imitate movements and hand motions, perhaps even some of their goofy side. But any attempted imitation would most likely be over the top or exaggerated.
    And if God cares so wonderfully for flowers that are here today and gone tomorrow, won't he more surely care for you?- Matthew 6:30

  8. #5888
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Hypothesis: For delta duality to get off the ground, the NF needs to enter the ST's world.

    Thoughts?
    INFj / EII / FiNe
    ()


    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

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    I think in general its sort of on the extrovert or at least extroverted function to make a move, so like it spins out in different ways, but in general for the NFs it starts with considering the possibilities via Fi. At some point you do need to place yourself in the path of the STs. I also think Ne is more likely to be mobile in that area, since Ne could lead to making big moves, whereas the STs are less likely to be so inclined. So I do think you're right, that, left to their own devices, the STs will lie somewhat inert in their own world, so the NFs need to act in such a way that brings the two together. I do think once you're in the same general area the STs take over via Te/Si doing something similar but in a more spatially bound area, which is to consider the pragmatics of the situation in front of them. So yeah, on the whole checks out for me

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    That's pretty much basically exactly what I was thinking.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
    ()


    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

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    sorry I had to think it through, but I can see its just a bunch of wordiness over the exact same idea

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    No, it's good! The whole point of a hypothesis is to have more words after, right, lol? If you hadn't said that, I'd have ended up quoting myself and then expounding in a very similar way. It's nice knowing a) how others think and b) that I'm not alone in getting to a conclusion in a particular way.

    I still might add more words later, particularly in providing examples of my anecdotal data.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
    ()


    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

  13. #5893
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    in that case yeah I'd expand on the Ne piece, which is it can cover a lot more ground. I know I've moved around the country a lot, in part because I was looking but not sure of what. I think its a more natural response on the part of the NF then to close the larger distances, which means if you're not happy with current environment or not happy with current relations you can use Ne to make big jumps because you can imagine it first then try it out. I think its this aspect that also makes LIE super mobile (expat moving around a lot too, but it comes by it via Ni creative--in a sense they're linked, they're both imaginative perceptions that span very large spatial areas, except Ni is part of one long coherent plot whereas direct Ne is more diverging into the unknown without envisioning a specific end goal at the onset just a general interest in seeing what happens..). I think EII is going to have a more difficult time with this because of Se polr and Ne creative, but they're more likely to make better guesses from stronger rationality. In other words compared to IEE they measure twice cut once, vs the opposite for IEE. or something like that. I think in general the need to close that space but at the same time being relatively unaggressive is probably what contributes to delta duality being kind of rare unless they started out already in close proximity. I feel like a delta in an out of quadra environment is in some sense really handicapped for that reason, but perhaps no worse than any other type in the final analysis... I think hoping someone busts in on them like that is sort of the st manic pixie dream girl fantasy, like that's what they protray this like ray of sunshine out of nowhere, etc perhaps a lot of Sol's problem is he's trying to do what EII needs to do for him and its not forthcoming so its a rough situation, one that I'm tempted to blame, at least in part, on the stifling environment

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    For delta duality to get off the ground, the NF needs to enter the ST's world.
    Duality effects need any communication. Better when you do something together as equals - with sharing roles or doing the similar. The good idea would be to spend a vacation with a dual in new place for both.
    To study skills of strong region of your dual by your dual and then do same for him - looks intriguing too.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    yeah doing something together that's new for both is a great idea because it allows you to see eachothers ways of doing things without prejudice so its easier to appreciate

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    One of my relatives have lost today the passport (+some other documents) and wallet with some money+bank card.
    I got a call from our familiar from other(!) city with the info that a woman have found all that, have given her phone. I've made her a call, we met at her home. I've taken the lost things and gave a symbolic reward (partly the compensation for her call to other city, what she even did not knew).
    The things were lost in a shop and found by a man which lives with her (mb husband; both seem >70 yo). The familiar's phone was among papers. The luck was the things were returned "as is" and soon. I suspect >50% of people would did other than that woman.
    Last edited by Sol; 03-20-2018 at 09:15 PM.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    aka He Died With a Felafel Delilah's Avatar
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    LSEs seem so atuned to another's financial status, constantly asking questions that might reveal smth about where the other person stands in relation to themselves. It's quite off-putting. Are they social climbers?
    "Inasmuch as it is nothing but pure communicability, every face, even the most noble and beautiful, is always suspended on the edge of an abyss"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    LSEs seem so atuned to another's financial status, constantly asking questions that might reveal smth about where the other person stands in relation to themselves. It's quite off-putting. Are they social climbers?
    LSEs may be interested about financial status of others if those live better or alike, to know more effective ways to gain money, to know useful people, etc. In case the opponent lives worse, they may be inerested what mistakes to avoid or mb to give advice. It's not about formal hierarchy.

    It's often when LSE take own job seriously and rise there qualification for own joy and because of responsibility. This generally assists for career. It's not from wishing more money than they need or higher formal status, but from a relation to own occupation. LSE may make career directly for money only when they need them for something serious like good meal, good home, to allow a wife to do not work, education of kids, etc.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    HEy @Sol what type do you think is Guusje ? she's basically the hottest woman I've ever seen

    moar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    Guusje?
    mb ILI
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    hng dat ili sensing

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    LSEs may be interested about financial status of others if those live better or alike, to know more effective ways to gain money, to know useful people, etc. In case the opponent lives worse, they may be inerested what mistakes to avoid or mb to give advice. It's not about formal hierarchy.

    It's often when LSE take own job seriously and rise there qualification for own joy and because of responsibility. This generally assists for career. It's not from wishing more money than they need or higher formal status, but from a relation to own occupation. LSE may make career directly for money only when they need them for something serious like good meal, good home, to allow a wife to do not work, education of kids, etc.
    What you are saying is interesting basically the LSE approaches the interaction with the goal of getting something of personal use out of it (in the form of information) and uses the interlocutor as a lamppost (of where not to go, what to avoid etc). Seems a bit off-putting, but it does make sense in theory.
    "Inasmuch as it is nothing but pure communicability, every face, even the most noble and beautiful, is always suspended on the edge of an abyss"

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    hey @Sol can you tell me whats going on here

    Examples of diagnosing the sociotypes in the WGS
    Seeker (ILE) Igor Weisband, diagnoses Kirill Kravchenko https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mivmgYQ-eQU

    Marshal (SLE), diagnoses Cyril Kravchenko https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmuDmWwrQrc

    Inspector (LSI), diagnoses Kirill Kravchenko https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqSwkDkCAEI

    Entrepreneur (LIE), diagnoses Kirill Kravchenko https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yedRsD27Zg

    Humanist (EII) diagnoses Cyril Kravchenko https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kT7c0xE7j0

    Advisor (IEA), diagnoses Kirill Kravchenko https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f19TNYJgeMc

    are the changing people the people with the different types and theyre all typing the same guy? or is he typing them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    or is he typing them?
    Yes. Typing of different people by Kirill Kravchenko. He types not good, what is common.
    His type is SEI, while he thinks himself seems as ILE.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    intredasting, what would you type those people?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    intredasting, what would you type those people?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmuDmWwrQrc
    SLE -> N

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIvF6nYy9GQ
    EIE -> ILI

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqSwkDkCAEI
    LSI -> FN

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kT7c0xE7j0
    EII -> not EII

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f19TNYJgeMc
    IEE -> IEI

    etc
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    I have an SLI female acquaintance and seems like she has issues with her femininity. Like she either overdoes it or underdoes it. Is this common?
    "Inasmuch as it is nothing but pure communicability, every face, even the most noble and beautiful, is always suspended on the edge of an abyss"

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    I think I know what you're talking about, but to me it seems like a really quirky and awesome blend so I wouldn't call it that. but from conventional standards it would probably be judged as such, but that's what makes it really awesome. in brief it seems like really coquettish and alluring in subtle ways (non verbal communication) and then kind of masculine in other ways (mainly verbal communication). weirdly I think I know a SLI Te woman and shes kind of thick but in an awesome way, and it was the SLI Si that was more conventionally in shape. The SLI Te almost passed for a SLE until you realize she was totally non aggressive, yet nevertheless very verbally direct. SLI Te seemed better at going after what she wants, whereas SLI Si seemed more internally equilibrated. SLI Si seems to do this thing where she knows how to talk in a way that is considered feminine but its not Fe its actually Te, its really interesting because its not Fe but its still calibrated to impart some degree of femininity, but by way of Si Te. When I think about it it really gets me going. Its basically the best version of the feminine ideal because its like Fe without the histrionics. All the concern and care but with none of the bullshit. Its that Fi, but it comes across as more in Te form. When SLI women slightly mock/imitate Fe by "playing the role of a Fe woman as endorsed by society" I find it like really awesome (that slight overshooting). Its like the best inside joke of all time. Its this weird form of dogwhistling that goes right to my brain. Anyway, thats my love letter to SLI women. Hope its not gross

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    I think I know what you're talking about, but to me it seems like a really quirky and awesome blend so I wouldn't call it that. but from conventional standards it would probably be judged as such, but that's what makes it really awesome. in brief it seems like really coquettish and alluring in subtle ways (non verbal communication) and then kind of masculine in other ways (mainly verbal communication). weirdly I think I know a SLI Te woman and shes kind of thick but in an awesome way, and it was the SLI Si that was more conventionally in shape. The SLI Te almost passed for a SLE until you realize she was totally non aggressive, yet nevertheless very verbally direct. SLI Te seemed better at going after what she wants, whereas SLI Si seemed more internally equilibrated. SLI Si seems to do this thing where she knows how to talk in a way that is considered feminine but its not Fe its actually Te, its really interesting because its not Fe but its still calibrated to impart some degree of femininity, but by way of Si Te. When I think about it it really gets me going. Its basically the best version of the feminine ideal because its like Fe without the histrionics. All the concern and care but with none of the bullshit. Its that Fi, but it comes across as more in Te form. When SLI women slightly mock/imitate Fe by "playing the role of a Fe woman as endorsed by society" I find it like really awesome (that slight overshooting). Its like the best inside joke of all time. Its this weird form of dogwhistling that goes right to my brain. Anyway, thats my love letter to SLI women. Hope its not gross
    Yes, that's what i mean of course, the conventional standards since there is no such thing as absolute 'femininity' - it is all a discourse
    "Inasmuch as it is nothing but pure communicability, every face, even the most noble and beautiful, is always suspended on the edge of an abyss"

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    Need !!! More !!! Delta ST !!! Girls !!!
    Currently trying to regain what I lost. And if that's not possible, at least gain new things while trying to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    I have an SLI female acquaintance and seems like she has issues with her femininity. Like she either overdoes it or underdoes it. Is this common?
    Not sure what you mean by femininity but from what I have observed, they can be merciless towards achieving what they want, not considering anyone's feelings, and quite forceful and pushy in a sense of making things fall in place as they wish. If you meant by their clothing choice and looks or movements, they are quite feminine I would say, with an underlying strictness which makes them appear more manly than they truly are. SLI women I know never wear masculine clothing in serious occasions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    I have an SLI female acquaintance and seems like she has issues with her femininity. Like she either overdoes it or underdoes it. Is this common?
    Seems the most feminine among Jung's theory is F. The only trait which women showed stably more often than men in the tests stats. As any T girls may show emotions not appropriate (not naturally) and femininity is associated with emotionality the most - you may notice such effect at them. The degree of the problem mb individual, also the negative in perception mb linked with IR with you.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    I have an SLI female acquaintance and seems like she has issues with her femininity. Like she either overdoes it or underdoes it. Is this common?
    I know one SLI female, her interests were boyish and she used to hang out only with guys because she felt more similat to them and it was more challenging and fun for her. When she became 17 or 18, her family noticed it and tried to make her learn how to be feminine and I felt quite sad for her because they were trying to make her into someone she's not. But she agreed with her family and now she has become more feminine, but I feel her true self is quite apparent, like you will notice that she's not like other females (naturally feminine) there is something about her that is cold. When we're with a group of people and see how she talks and behaves, I feel she tries to look sensitive when inside she's not. It's very weird to observe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    Seems the most feminine among Jung's theory is F. The only trait which women showed stably more often than men in the tests stats. As any T girls may show emotions not appropriate (not naturally) and femininity is associated with emotionality the most - you may notice such effect at them. The degree of the problem mb individual, also the negative in perception mb linked with IR with you.
    I didn't say i view it as negative. It's just an observation. Similar to what @Daisy has observed
    "Inasmuch as it is nothing but pure communicability, every face, even the most noble and beautiful, is always suspended on the edge of an abyss"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    I didn't say i view it as negative
    and I did not say that you did so but the using of term "issues" means you set negative evaluation
    also it's negative if a woman is perceived as lesser feminine by a man as this should mean she's lesser attractive for him
    this may relate not only to the type. while from types point my hypothesis should be correct at least for T men, - as we prefer F women. perception of others may just follow to stereotype of emotional women, which is partly correct

    your Fi relation to the discussed issue is as separate theme, anyway
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    and I did not say that you did so but the using of term "issues" means you set negative evaluation
    also it's negative if a woman is perceived as lesser feminine by a man as this should mean she's lesser attractive for him
    this may relate not only to the type. while from types point my hypothesis should be correct at least for T men, - as we prefer F women. perception of others may just follow to stereotype of emotional women, which is partly correct

    your Fi relation to the discussed issue is as separate theme, anyway
    Ok, ill explain briefly: it is not an issue for me that this woman doesn't exactly fit the society's norm of what is 'feminine'. However, it seems to be an issue for her, like she seems to want to fit in and struggles with it. To me it is strange that she tries so hard. My observations here seem to resonate with what Daisy said.
    "Inasmuch as it is nothing but pure communicability, every face, even the most noble and beautiful, is always suspended on the edge of an abyss"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    Not sure what you mean by femininity but from what I have observed, they can be merciless towards achieving what they want, not considering anyone's feelings, and quite forceful and pushy in a sense of making things fall in place as they wish. If you meant by their clothing choice and looks or movements, they are quite feminine I would say, with an underlying strictness which makes them appear more manly than they truly are. SLI women I know never wear masculine clothing in serious occasions.
    Hi I was talking about the so-called standard femininity really, like the straight female stereotype. It seemed to me that this SLI acquaintance is lured by it but seems to be hit and miss in her performance of it. I hope this makes a little more sense. What you write is interesting. Did you mean that female SLIs are ruthless in some particular context or in general?
    "Inasmuch as it is nothing but pure communicability, every face, even the most noble and beautiful, is always suspended on the edge of an abyss"

  38. #5918
    Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    Hi I was talking about the so-called standard femininity really, like the straight female stereotype. It seemed to me that this SLI acquaintance is lured by it but seems to be hit and miss in her performance of it. I hope this makes a little more sense. What you write is interesting. Did you mean that female SLIs are ruthless in some particular context or in general?
    Hi (:
    So according to that what I meant was if we divide the straight female stereotype into two cathegories of looks and personality, female SLIs try to look more feminine than their personality feels to others, but it might just be the surface they try to keep tough, and at the core their mindset is usually feminnine as well. So it doesn't feel harmonic to me. And by ruthless I mean when they want events to fall into a direction which is most comfortable for them, they ignore everyone else's feelings. A very small example would be when 10 people are out and 9 of them want to go hiking, the SLI wants to go home and sleep or has something to do, and she knows her decision would affect whether others will go or not as well and she can see how enthusiastic others are about going hiking but she will insist on going home so much or act so grumpily and harshly that everyone finally agrees it's not such a good idea afterall. Or will be unable to decide if she wants to go to a party or not and knows others decision depends on her decision, but gives hope, and then at the final moment announces that she is busy and won't be joining. Now expand that behaviour to larger scale. At least that has been my experience with them.

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    I remember one pair. The man was SLE and I thought the woman is EII. I had the wish to say her about Socionics and bad IR, but we were not close enough for such discussions.
    After several years I met them again and with better skills understood she's IEI and they are duality pair.

    The knowledge without good skills may harm the lifes. The choice by the heart may join good ones, even when the reason and knowledge point on other.

    How often not enough good skills and methods will join people in bad IR or will break the pairs with good ones? It's responsibility socionists take like medics which use risky ways of healing. At best we may say - it's you who need to understand own type, the typer only tries to help you. Not all will follow to this. It needs significant time and efforts to study the typology, to get typing skills to be able to understand own type.
    Many ones will reduce the interest to keep the relations and hence the efforts after geting info about bad IR and the relations will become worse - they'll see the partly illusional negative "confirmation". The other ones will forgive more and will do more efforts after info about good IR - they'll get the partly positive illusion. Socionics may worsen relations which could be better and join with people which can be worse than you'd chosen without it.

    Besides types, what is there else important in the psyche? Will Socionics improve the lifes in average if will join people with good IR, but the hearts of which were lesser tuned to hear and people relied mostly on Socionics. You'll get what good IR give, but what you may loose in other important? That's why it needs the experimental research to understand how choosing pairs by IR influences peoples' lifes on practice, even after it will be clear the duality factor exists and is strong.
    Any medal has 2 opposite sides.
    Last edited by Sol; 05-24-2018 at 10:10 PM.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    aka He Died With a Felafel Delilah's Avatar
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    I'm feeling a bit delta recently so I'll post this quite possibly strange thing here. Also i wonder if the nature of my complaint isn't maybe delta.

    I work with someone i suspect to be LIE but whom i don't like at all. I suspect they're LIE at least and i wonder if maybe they don't like me either.

    Anyhow, because we have had a few bad encounters i try to remind myself to smooth things over, just for the sake of having to work together.

    On this idea of smoothing things over i was trying to make the equivalent of water cooler conversation so i tell her how i rarely use facebook nowadays because i have low tolerance for the selfies people post on there.

    And she says, oh yeah, i defriended someone because she started going on and on about having been finger-raped.

    And i was like, omg, how is that equivalent to what i said. It is just so inappropriate and it made me feel rather uncomfortable. Like this LIE's sense of boundaries seems to be inexistent, like she can't separate something of personal nature (more Si) from something else.

    /end rant
    "Inasmuch as it is nothing but pure communicability, every face, even the most noble and beautiful, is always suspended on the edge of an abyss"

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