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Thread: Introspection

  1. #1
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    Default Introspection

    Is it related to dictomies......

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    I've always considered:
    Introversion + Intuition = Introspection

    That is INxx is "Introspection"

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    What are your thoughts

    agree/disagree -- place your thoughts and arguments also.

    I should mention I am thinking more Kiersey/MBTI on this one than Socionics.... so if you want to consider it with socionics, feel free.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    Is it related to dictomies......

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    I've always considered:
    Introversion + Intuition = Introspection

    That is INxx is "Introspection"

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    What are your thoughts

    agree/disagree -- place your thoughts and arguments also.

    I should mention I am thinking more Kiersey/MBTI on this one than Socionics.... so if you want to consider it with socionics, feel free.
    It's quite simpel to check.

    If the ENTP's or so on this forum do a lot of introspection the myth is debunked.


    But I think I can see what they would mean, and it's probably not a bad guess.

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    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    I think intelligent people are introspective, the end.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    I think intelligent people are introspective, the end.
    cheap answer, what type are intelligent people

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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    cheap answer, what type are intelligent people
    Mostly human.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    INXxs are more introspective than ISXxs ESXXs and ENXxs.

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    I am less introspective than my soul.

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    I'm really not introspective.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    My POV

    Introspective: statics

    Shallow: dynamics
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    I think intelligent people are introspective, the end.
    Of course, and Ij/Ep > Ej/Ip, when it comes to introspection
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

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    I rely on introspection to guide me in my life's path, and Ni is theoretically my primary function (being IEI), so maybe the two are related. . .I am still trying to figure out what's included in Ni. (I'm a socionics newb)

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    I'm very introspective... although I thought that almost everyone was to a degree. I don't know how to "Extravert" my thoughts, so finding a way to "get out of my head" would be nice.

    I would say that Ni-leading is perhaps the most self-aware and self-doubting...
    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Stromberg
    Let's stop using this outdated measure - which has about as much scientific validity as your astrological sign.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I'm really not introspective.
    So if most intelligent types are introspective
    And intelligent types are human

    and your not introspective

    then your not human

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    I'm very introspective... although I thought that almost everyone was to a degree. I don't know how to "Extravert" my thoughts, so finding a way to "get out of my head" would be nice.

    I would say that Ni-leading is perhaps the most self-aware and self-doubting...
    I used to have that problem of extraverting my thoughts.... now I don't really but the problem is if I were to say whats on my mind people find it random or uninteresting alot of the time. Usually if its uninteresting/random I flip around to a joke to difusse any awkwardness; I like comedy and making light of things helps relieve any awkward stress.

    The thing is I think INTx and ENTx are totally different things. INTx is like thinking inside your head, with you inside the mental world of your thoughts, conversations with people involve sharing this mental world of thoughts. Whereas the subtle difference in ENTx is its more mind meldish, with both people thinking inside the same mental world being created as the conversation progresses.

    This is why simply extroverting something that you've been in intense introspection about and thinking about deeply can lead to people being uninterested/confused (or at least in my personal experiences). They are more used to ENTx mind meldish stuff, expecting to communially arrive at some place mentally. Whereas if your INTx, and especially INTj, people will be dumbfounded at how you got to what you said because they weren't walking through it with you. Especially INTj's I could imagine would just give out their conclusions so simply after intense introspective INTx thought. Alot of people would overlook the conclusion for all of that abundant thought as just some simple stupid statement.

    is INxp

    Based on my assumptions that would mean that it would imply in terms of dictomies that a person would tend to spend alot of time exploring (xxxp) their introspective (INxx) internal world. Since doesn't specify Thinking or Feeling, this internal world could be more based on thoughts (INTp) or feeling (INFp). Or it could be a little of both, seeing as how everyone has thoughts/feelings.... I'd just imagine the INTps to be more in tune with their thoughts and the INFps with their feelings -- INTps would spend less time feeling because they would be after competency and they would think feelings won't lead to competency and are a sign of weakness, they'de likely experience them but hide them away and not share them... where as the opposite is true with INFp they would find thinking meaningless and slightly boring/undervaled compared to their feelings, they'de likely experience thoughts but not reveal them for fear of looking stupid and because they don't think they need to rigorously prove their ideas with heavy logic. I think this comes from the difference in the creative function as in whats being 'd about, and their weaker part (thoughts for INFP/feelings for INTp) would end up appearing in their PoLR which they gaurd from the outside world.
    Last edited by male; 11-21-2009 at 02:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    So if most intelligent types are introspective
    And intelligent types are human

    and your not introspective

    then your not human
    Makes sense.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    So if most intelligent types are introspective
    And intelligent types are human

    and your not introspective

    then your not human
    Not all humans are intelligent types.
    IEI

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    I see you made a thread about this, neat. My theory is that Extroverted and Sensing IE's are more proactive than Introverted and Intuitive ones, which leads Introverted Intuitive types as being more introspective due to being in a more immobile state
    Think how this compliments the Extroverted Sensory duals who're easily the least lethargic types
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    Wikipedia:

    Extroversion
    Extroversion is "the act, state, or habit of being predominantly concerned with and obtaining gratification from what is outside the self".[7] Extroverts tend to enjoy human interactions and to be enthusiastic, talkative and assertive. They take pleasure in activities that involve large social gatherings, such as parties, community activities, public demonstrations, and business or political groups. Politics, teaching, sales, managing, and brokering are fields that favor extroversion. An extroverted person is likely to enjoy time spent with people and find less reward in time spent alone. They tend to be energized when around other people, and they are more prone to boredom when they are by themselves.

    Introversion
    Introversion is "the state of or tendency toward being wholly or predominantly concerned with and interested in one's own mental life".[7] Introverts tend to be more reserved and less assertive in social situations. They often take pleasure in solitary activities such as reading, writing, drawing, playing musical instruments or using computers. The archetypal artist, writer, sculptor, composer, and inventor are all highly introverted. An introvert is likely to enjoy time spent alone and find less reward in time spent with large groups of people, though they tend to enjoy interactions with close friends. They prefer to concentrate on a single activity at a time and like to observe situations before they participate.[8] Introverts are easily overwhelmed by too much stimulation from social gatherings and engagement. The introvert tends to think thoroughly before verbalising their thoughts.[9]

    Introversion is generally not the same as shyness. Introverts choose solitary over social activities by preference, whereas shy people avoid social encounters out of fear.[10]

    Ambiversion
    Although many people view introversion-extroversion as a dichotomy, most contemporary trait theories (e.g. the Big Five) measure levels of extroversion-introversion as part of a single, continuous dimension of personality, with some scores near one end, and others near the half-way mark.[11] Ambiversion is a term used to describe people who fall more or less directly in the middle and exhibit tendencies of both groups.[7][12] An ambivert is normally comfortable with groups and enjoys social interaction, but also relishes time alone and away from the crowd.

    Introspection is the self-observation and reporting of conscious inner thoughts, desires and sensations. It is a conscious mental and usually purposive process relying on thinking, reasoning, and examining one's own thoughts, feelings, and, in more spiritual cases, one's soul. It can also be called contemplation of one's self, and is contrasted with extrospection, the observation of things external to one's self. Introspection may be used synonymously with self-reflection and used in a similar way.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    So introspection and introversion seem to have a correlation in their colloquial descriptions...

    The question is, does this fit into Socionics? What about internal object statics makes Ne gregarious, active, or talkative? Does it? Ne dominant does not make me want to go out of my way to shoot the breeze. I can be extremely conversational when people state their interest, but I'm quite content zoning out and intropsecting. I consider myself an ambivert I guess.

    We know that introtim's are more focused on perceiving the subjective nature and extrotim's at the objective nature, but does this have any correlation with social libido? Why?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    Introspection is the self-observation and reporting of conscious inner thoughts, desires and sensations. It is a conscious mental and usually purposive process relying on thinking, reasoning, and examining one's own thoughts, feelings, and, in more spiritual cases, one's soul. It can also be called contemplation of one's self, and is contrasted with extrospection, the observation of things external to one's self. Introspection may be used synonymously with self-reflection and used in a similar way.
    I basically do that... nearly all of the time. I'm usually thinking "What am I feeling/thinking? what do I think about this, how do I feel about that?" etc. That's like, the description of Ni or Si, I think. It seems very IP. For IPs... your own consciousness and sensations become the self.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Stromberg
    Let's stop using this outdated measure - which has about as much scientific validity as your astrological sign.

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    ArchonAlarion,
    interesting info. Could it be that irrational types, in general, have a tendency to be ambiverts due to a fluctuation in energy level/mood...?
    EII INFj
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post

    So introspection and introversion seem to have a correlation in their colloquial descriptions...
    Agreed but I think you need to consider the presence of Intuition combined with Introversion to get a full potrait of introspection. The reason is:

    I think Introverted Sensing types are more liable to spend time doing activities which are solitary in nature but grounded to reality; for example an ISFp playing a musical instrument while they are alone. You wouldn't describe a person simply doing an activity by themselves which they enjoy as introspective.

    I think Introverted Intuitive types however are more liable to spend time doing activities in their "inner world" since intuition tends to take this abstract/imaginative/internal quality, and because of that INxx types will tend to explore their inner worlds which is percisely what introspection is.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    The question is, does this fit into Socionics? What about internal object statics makes Ne gregarious, active, or talkative? Does it? Ne dominant does not make me want to go out of my way to shoot the breeze. I can be extremely conversational when people state their interest, but I'm quite content zoning out and intropsecting. I consider myself an ambivert I guess.
    Alright well in terms of dictomies I'd say INxx.... so translating this into socionics I'd have to review how INxx types work.

    First in terms of Functions INxx will lead with
    (for Ixxp tempermant) - Internal Dynamics of Fields
    , (for Ixxj tempermant) - Internal/External Statics of Fields

    In other words the leading function will always be concerned with Fields
    If they are (Ixxp) these fields will be dynamic
    If they are (Ixxj) these fields will be static

    Their creative function will be
    (for Ixxj tempermant) - Internal Statics of Bodies
    , (for Ixxp tempermant) - External/Internal Dynamics of Bodies

    So the creative is always concerned with Bodies
    (Ixxp) => Dynamics
    (Ixxj) => Statics

    Alright so - The important part

    Basically INxx types have a number of characteristics which are key, also these are unique -- they aren't true for all 16 types, only for INxx....

    In regards to Fields/Bodies
    1) Their Leading Function is always fields - Their Creative always bodies

    In regards to Dynamics/Statics
    2) Ixxp will always be purely Dynamics in the ego block
    3) Ixxj will always be purely Statics in the ego block

    In regards to Internal/External
    4) Only INTp and INFj will have an External function in Ego block; INTj and INFp are purely internal. No INxx is purely External (and note some types are purely external in ego block).

    Someone can interpret these final results... this all is just the pure logic of what INxx means in terms of socionics and functions.

    Edit: What I've noticed is that INTp/INFj may have a higher likelyhood of being ambivalent because of the combination of internal/external in their ego block. Second, INxp have a more "go with the flow" attitude because They are Dynamic Fields in their ego block. Third, INxj have a more rigid viewpoint since they are Static Fields - but its not needlessly rigid, it aims to find the characteristics of a relationship which remained unchanged over time and because of that its considered rigid to outside observers who are less interested in such pursuits. Finally introversion in general always has a leading function with fields, thus their leading function is more concerned with relationships than objects; however objects are considered creatively which aids the leading function in understanding relationships.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    We know that introtim's are more focused on perceiving the subjective nature and extrotim's at the objective nature, but does this have any correlation with social libido? Why?
    Lol I'll have to think on this one a bit - but first what is introtim/extrotim
    Last edited by male; 11-23-2009 at 03:10 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    I basically do that... nearly all of the time. I'm usually thinking "What am I feeling/thinking? what do I think about this, how do I feel about that?" etc. That's like, the description of Ni or Si, I think. It seems very IP. For IPs... your own consciousness and sensations become the self.
    Yes, I think IP's can be introspective or at least passive and reflective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    ArchonAlarion,
    interesting info. Could it be that irrational types, in general, have a tendency to be ambiverts due to a fluctuation in energy level/mood...?
    Yes, good thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    Agreed but I think you need to consider the presence of Intuition combined with Introversion to get a full potrait of introspection. The reason is:

    I think Introverted Sensing types are more liable to spend time doing activities which are solitary in nature but grounded to reality; for example an ISFp playing a musical instrument while they are alone. You wouldn't describe a person simply doing an activity by themselves which they enjoy as introspective.
    But do Si leadings do this? I don't think sensors are more physical and less mental in such a degree. I'd expect a 4w3 ISFp to be quite introspective and even a 9w1 ISFp would be a tad whimsical/dreamy and reflective.

    I think Introverted Intuitive types however are more liable to spend time doing activities in their "inner world" since intuition tends to take this abstract/imaginative/internal quality, and because of that INxx types will tend to explore their inner worlds which is percisely what introspection is.
    I think this has to do with enneagram correlations.

    Alright well in terms of dictomies I'd say INxx.... so translating this into socionics I'd have to review how INxx types work.

    First in terms of Functions INxx will lead with
    (for Ixxp tempermant) - Internal Dynamics of Fields
    , (for Ixxj tempermant) - Internal/External Statics of Fields
    Ti is external not internal.

    In other words the leading function will always be concerned with Fields
    If they are (Ixxp) these fields will be dynamic
    If they are (Ixxj) these fields will be static

    Their creative function will be
    (for Ixxj tempermant) - Internal Statics of Bodies
    , (for Ixxp tempermant) - External/Internal Dynamics of Bodies

    So the creative is always concerned with Bodies
    (Ixxp) => Dynamics
    (Ixxj) => Statics

    Alright so - The important part

    Basically INxx types have a number of characteristics which are key, also these are unique -- they aren't true for all 16 types, only for INxx....

    In regards to Fields/Bodies
    1) Their Leading Function is always fields - Their Creative always bodies

    In regards to Dynamics/Statics
    2) Ixxp will always be purely Dynamics in the ego block
    3) Ixxj will always be purely Statics in the ego block

    In regards to Internal/External
    4) Only INTp and INFj will have an External function in Ego block; INTj and INFp are purely internal. No INxx is purely External (and note some types are purely external in ego block).
    INTp and INTj have an external and an internal, INFp and INFj have double internals.

    Someone can interpret these final results... this all is just the pure logic of what INxx means in terms of socionics and functions.

    Edit: What I've noticed is that INTp/INFj may have a higher likelyhood of being ambivalent because of the combination of internal/external in their ego block. Second, INxp have a more "go with the flow" attitude because They are Dynamic Fields in their ego block. Third, INxj have a more rigid viewpoint since they are Static Fields - but its not needlessly rigid, it aims to find the characteristics of a relationship which remained unchanged over time and because of that its considered rigid to outside observers who are less interested in such pursuits. Finally introversion in general always has a leading function with fields, thus their leading function is more concerned with relationships than objects; however objects are considered creatively which aids the leading function in understanding relationships.
    okay

    Lol I'll have to think on this one a bit - but first what is introtim/extrotim
    They are terms to specify that one is speaking of Field leading types (introtim) or Object leading types (extrotim). They further differentiate socionics terminology from more loosely defined terms like introvert and extravert.
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