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Thread: Development of Ep-Ip duality

  1. #1
    Creepy-

    Default Development of Ep-Ip duality

    Eps and Ips tend to wax and wane in openly demonstrating interest in one another. They may seem to get comfortable with the other's level of interest, only to have one or both of them seem to back off. It may be something minor that instills doubt [one of them may be busy for a few days; one may make an offhand comment that throws the other off; one may not respond satisfactorily to pokes for affirmation or reassurance; etc. Possibly, neither person wants it to be overly obvious that they care as much as they do, so they withdraw or hold out in the beginning.

    Ep-Ip relationships take more time to dualize than Ej-Ij relationships, and they may also be more fragile until trust is established on both sides. Although both people may want a deeply committed partner, this is sometimes veiled because neither person feels they can be sure of the other's enduring interest.

    Eps are naturally attracted to Xe [their HA, Fe or Te] but Ips don't emit Xe [their creative function] at random; they use their creative function (Xe) to draw people in initially, but soon after 'hooking them' they default to Xi [their base function, Ni or Si] in order to assess the situation – Xe is subdued at that point while the base function is at work. If Xi determines that it's safe, the Ip relaxes and Xe comes out again. This may confuse the Ep, who may think the Ip is bored or has decided that the Ep wasn't all that fabulous after all.

    Ips prefer being pursued by Eps, rather than pursuing. They are drawn to the Ep’s Xe [the Ep’s base function and the Ip’s DS]. However, when Eps switch to Xi [the Ep’s creative function and the Ip’s HA] to assess the relationship, it may cause confusion in the Ip: the Ep has stopped pursuing and has begun to make rational decisions about the relationship, and this can be off-putting for the Ip. Among other things, the Ip finds the Ep’s Xi much less warm than the Ep’s Xe, so it may seem that the Ep’s interest has changed for the worse.

    Eps and Ips may frustrate each other very much. Neither person realizes that the other is crazy about them; they test, withdraw, pursue, etc and confuse each other very much. It will only work out if one or both of them acts naturally even if they feel vulnerable doing it. Otherwise the relationship falls apart and both of them are left thinking, they are unwanted, which is in fact untrue.
    What do you think?
    Last edited by female; 11-18-2009 at 03:58 AM.

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    ti/fi are boring compared to se/ne .. yeah ..

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    Who wrote that?

  4. #4
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    I can see this applying.

    EDIT

    The basic gist of this actually really neatly captures what happened with my SLI and I.
    Last edited by male; 11-18-2009 at 05:12 AM.

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    I don't know. I don't have many SLE friends (one real friend, two or three acquaintances), so I'm not sure. I guess I would be put-off somewhat if all the awesome Se that was making the action happen disappeared, but then I don't think I'd be that bothered by them stopping to make rational decisions, so long as a decision eventually emerged, and I could see it manifested in some way. Then I'd figure out what the decision was, and it'd be cool.

    Similarly, I could see how an SLE that (theoretically) needs shows of emotion to determine one's attitude towards him/her, to be surprised when I suddenly stop showing emotion and become very quiet and withdrawn (i.e., in my head). This could throw them into uncertainty, sure. But then eventually we'd get to the point where I could verbalize my in-my-headness in a way that they find positive, no?

    Anyway, sounds interesting/pretty cool.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

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    definetly sounds good but needs some detail. i almost think its all forer effect though. give me an ij-ej one to compare it to!

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    I think it's pretty damn good.
    Moonlight will fall
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    Truth. Where'd this come from?

  9. #9
    Creepy-

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    Hah, I guess curious minds want to know the source... It came from this, which zenbrat wrote. I thought it was very insightful, so I modified it a bit to fit Ep-Ip relations in general [at least in theory] and posted it here to see what you wise people would think.

    It fits Ep-Ip duality well imo, but I was curious whether it was a forer thing [as someone mentioned] or actually related to irrational relations in particular...

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    I found this quite accurate. Irrational duality definitely has a more sporadic, somewhat polarizing quality. Overall, I think the description applies more to IxFp-ExTp duality.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    bump

    due to recent events
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    Yep... I've pretty much had that exact same experience with my dual. She seemed so flighty to me.. like she no longer cared so I just gave up with her. It pretty much ruined the relationship. Later I realized that she actually did still care and she hadn't known she was doing anything wrong. So i came off as the paranoid one... such a horrible relationship that was.

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    Same as Sumerian.

    But now its round two.

    Wish me luck peoplz

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    so i guess my big question is, since this is how Ep's and Ip's naturally act, what exactly is meant by "acting natural even if it makes you feel vulnerable", in order to save the relationship?
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    so i guess my big question is, since this is how Ep's and Ip's naturally act, what exactly is meant by "acting natural even if it makes you feel vulnerable", in order to save the relationship?
    Not becoming defensive and trying to determine all the time by all the signs what the other side is thinking. But letting go of the doubts and just acting the like you would naturally.

    Which actually works everywhere everytime.

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    Why are we bumping two-year-old threads?

    I guess I shouldn't care so much, but to me that's kinda weird like in real life- normally if people bring back a conversation they had that was that long ago, people try to make them live more in the present. If something snagged at your heart like a jawfish though, it can be hard to shake free of it.

    I never stumbled across this thread when it was first written, however, so I'm glad that it was bumped because I agree with it. I have a hard time trusting people. I don't get in many relationships. I'm easily offended about things that most people can get over. I also demand to be treated with a lot of respect and dignity, and I don't really like being teased. I more or less want somebody to treat me in a romantic Protect-You way, which is very rare. Obviously most people don't want to do that- even if they do have a crush on me. My sister told me once that it has an uppity aura, like 'Who am I to think that I'm so special that I deserve such a thing?'

    But it's just what I prefer. It's just what I like, and I can't really shake it.

    I'm also an Earth sign, and so I want the person to be stuck to me like glue and attached for a really long time. Jealous, possessive, and instinctual. And very romantic and ideal, relationships to me are something that involves sky-rocket levels of emotional compatibility not really what type of job somebody has, which is why I've fallen for guys who have no job or real life quite easily.

    However, I have 3 really good guys right now that I'm still choosing what is the best fit for me with my faux-vagina/half-girl/bottom boy powers. I am very standoffish and cool/distant though because this stuff is always too important to me and I want to make sure what I'm getting into is exactly right for me before I make a decision. They are all extroverts, and so it's complementary in many ways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    Why are we bumping two-year-old threads?

    I guess I shouldn't care so much, but to me that's kinda weird like in real life- normally if people bring back a conversation they had that was that long ago, people try to make them live more in the present. If something snagged at your heart like a jawfish though, it can be hard to shake free of it.

    I never stumbled across this thread when it was first written, however, so I'm glad that it was bumped because I agree with it. I have a hard time trusting people. I don't get in many relationships. I'm easily offended about things that most people can get over. I also demand to be treated with a lot of respect and dignity, and I don't really like being teased. I more or less want somebody to treat me in a romantic Protect-You way, which is very rare. Obviously most people don't want to do that- even if they do have a crush on me. My sister told me once that it has an uppity aura, like 'Who am I to think that I'm so special that I deserve such a thing?'

    But it's just what I prefer. It's just what I like, and I can't really shake it.

    I'm also an Earth sign, and so I want the person to be stuck to me like glue and attached for a really long time. Jealous, possessive, and instinctual. And very romantic and ideal, relationships to me are something that involves sky-rocket levels of emotional compatibility not really what type of job somebody has, which is why I've fallen for guys who have no job or real life quite easily.

    However, I have 3 really good guys right now that I'm still choosing what is the best fit for me with my faux-vagina/half-girl/bottom boy powers. I am very standoffish and cool/distant though because this stuff is always too important to me and I want to make sure what I'm getting into is exactly right for me before I make a decision. They are all extroverts, and so it's complementary in many ways.
    You will get what you want. Your soul is finding the way it likes to be. ANd you certainly seem to have very very good knowing of yourself one that maybe flows over the centuries.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewBorn STAR View Post
    You will get what you want. Your soul is finding the way it likes to be. ANd you certainly seem to have very very good knowing of yourself one that maybe flows over the centuries.
    You sound like Golden.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ;582100
    Eps and Ips may frustrate each other very much. Neither person realizes that the other is crazy about them; they test, withdraw, pursue, etc and confuse each other very much. It will only work out if one or both of them acts naturally even if they feel vulnerable doing it. Otherwise the relationship falls apart and both of them are left thinking, they are unwanted, which is in fact untrue.
    What do you think?
    goddamned this sounds perfect. So I guess I'm more liked than I think...

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    Yeah. IPs have that issue.

    I just realized the past few days, how many people have had crushes on me. That really surprised me. I have a hard time thinking why anybody would ever look at me that way. I always just assumed that I will be the one that's doing the loving, and not getting any myself in return. It's pretty nice, although I have a hard time feeling anybody else's love unless they rape it into me.

    (Se dual seeking) If you want me to know you care, you pretty much have to fuck my brains out in an ESTp thug porn star romantic hot way.

    I am introverted and passive. If you want me to know you care, you have to just really hit me with a truck like it and make me feel it because I'm so stubborn. NO BEING DISTANT. you have to come up on me and slather me with it. Physically and raw. Don't be 'mental' or 'spiritual' with it- that's my job. Omg nobody cares. Just throat fuck me upside down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    Why are we bumping two-year-old threads?
    Because i've always thought it was an excellent post, and i've been thinking about it lately. And for the edification of the newbies as well as people like yourself who missed it the first time around

    the age of the thread has not affected the content of it. Still holds true.
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    Eps are naturally attracted to Xe [their HA, Fe or Te] but Ips don't emit Xe [their creative function] at random; they use their creative function (Xe) to draw people in initially, but soon after 'hooking them' they default to Xi [their base function, Ni or Si] in order to assess the situation Ė Xe is subdued at that point while the base function is at work. If Xi determines that it's safe, the Ip relaxes and Xe comes out again. This may confuse the Ep, who may think the Ip is bored or has decided that the Ep wasn't all that fabulous after all.

    Ips prefer being pursued by Eps, rather than pursuing. They are drawn to the Epís Xe [the Epís base function and the Ipís DS]. However, when Eps switch to Xi [the Epís creative function and the Ipís HA] to assess the relationship, it may cause confusion in the Ip: the Ep has stopped pursuing and has begun to make rational decisions about the relationship, and this can be off-putting for the Ip. Among other things, the Ip finds the Epís Xi much less warm than the Epís Xe, so it may seem that the Epís interest has changed for the worse.

    question: Why is it that the Ep is attracted to the Ip's creative function, but the Ip is attracted to the Ep's base function (and finds the Ep's use of their creative function unsettling)?

    I mean, in my case this holds true, I find myself very attracted to Te. tbh i've thought it was a subtype thing, but maybe it's not?
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    @WA

    Omg do I see a bunny there? <3

    An IP's creative function and an EP's base function are both extroverted, meaning there is a high chance that you notice it more often around you. You are generally attracted to Te because it seems more readily available than Si since it is an overt function that expresses itself far louder than Si.

    Much like if I have only been exposed to bunnies my entire life, I will come to love it greatly, even though I truly love the baby hamster more.

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    @OP

    The whole EP/IP relationship dynamic is designed to be very unpredictable and turbulent, because the P types in general are created to thrive in such environments.

    It will only succeed when they have decided to navigate a bigger and wilder ocean *together*, instead of being lost in each other's doubts and confusions. In other words, go start a project together, take on the world, do something big, impossible, and highly meaningful. There's nothing that brings EP/IP closer than this

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reuben View Post
    @WA

    Omg do I see a bunny there? <3

    An IP's creative function and an EP's base function are both extroverted, meaning there is a high chance that you notice it more often around you. You are generally attracted to Te because it seems more readily available than Si since it is an overt function that expresses itself far louder than Si.

    Much like if I have only been exposed to bunnies my entire life, I will come to love it greatly, even though I truly love the baby hamster more.
    yeah that's sort of what i was thinking too actually. so basically re: reverting to the introverted functions, it's not so much that the other person doesn't like the introverted function itself, but more that they feel a sudden coldness because of lack of extraversion.
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    Possibly you can understand it via this analogy:

    After spending time with so many lovely bunnies (Te), you are accustomed to their size and warmth.

    You are introduced to a particularly adorable hamster (Si), but then you feel a bit confused because it's so small and squishy (introverted). Can I possibly love such a thing? you ask yourself.

    Naturally, you are inclined to venture back into your rabbit playpen where everything lovely is familiar to you. But say if you should spend more time with your adorable hamster, you will grow to prefer it more than your bunny pen because you are hamster-seeking.

    Btw I need a hamster now, any volunteers? <3

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    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
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    Yeah, I still like this description.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NewBorn STAR View Post
    You will get what you want. Your soul is finding the way it likes to be. ANd you certainly seem to have very very good knowing of yourself one that maybe flows over the centuries.
    You sound like Golden.
    lol, truth!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reuben View Post
    @OP

    The whole EP/IP relationship dynamic is designed to be very unpredictable and turbulent, because the P types in general are created to thrive in such environments.

    It will only succeed when they have decided to navigate a bigger and wilder ocean *together*, instead of being lost in each other's doubts and confusions. In other words, go start a project together, take on the world, do something big, impossible, and highly meaningful. There's nothing that brings EP/IP closer than this
    I like the sounds of this

    I'm gonna get a one person tent to put in my bike bags so I can set up camp and sleep in the woods; I'm gonna go on a solo mission, across a state line eventually... an adventure like this with an ILI on board sounds absolutely kickass...

    I'm thinking about calling up the IEI dude and having a hell of a music thing, we want to play loud and fast

    Quote Originally Posted by Reuben View Post
    Btw I need a hamster now, any volunteers? <3

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    NO. HE IS NOT A HAMSTER.

    Woof, when exactly are you going to do this? Give me a date and a time, and we'll make sure you ACTUALLY do it by then or we're banning your ass off this forum

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    Yeah, nice article.

    Rationals meet each other, interview each other (are you a Christian, do you want to have children, do you like Robocop?), bang bang bang and three days later they are signing a mortgage.

    Irrationals take things too easy!
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    Oh, nice thread. I wonder if this applies as much with Ne/Si quadras as with Se/Ni.

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