Bones

[crazedrat]

the show is cheesy. weak writing

[silverchris9]

...yes... but it satisfies my fantasies about being a cool lab geek, so therefore it's a good show, and I shall defend it to the death!

Also... what happens in Season 3? I forget. Is that the one with Gourmagon?

[Joy]

Yes, Gourmagon.

[discojoe]

If you think the character of bones is anything other than alpha you have a brain problem.

She's definitely Gamma NT.

[silverchris9]

Well at least I have someone who agrees with me.

I liked the season with Gourmagon, although Zach...

Was, like, my favorite character, and I'm so bitter that they basically wrote him off the show, like wtf?

Anyway, did it change your conclusions about which types the show's characters most nearly resemble (since I do agree that fictional characters don't *really* have types, as if the writing isn't good enough it doesn't reflect human beings enough to fit with types, but also if the writing is too good, then generally the writer has a better understanding of human nature than socionics does, and thus the characters supersede type and we lose the socionics again...)?

[Joy]

Actually, Bones DOES act much more receptive to Fi than to Fe. When it comes to Fe she seems to think that there's no reason to give it much consideration. She only tries to do it for Booth when he tells her to because of her relationship with him and because she's observed that it helps her be more effective. If someone she didn't have a relationship tried to tell her to pay more attention to Fe or help her with Fe, she wouldn't put up with it.

Another thing to note is that new people have a really hard time being accepted into the group. Alpha is the most accepting quadra. Irl, Alphas wouldn't alienate new people like they do. They would be more welcoming, or at least friendly.

And from what I've seen, she does seem to value Se more than Ne. She's really heavy on Ti, but she's a scientist, which could explain it. She's also sort of... well, broken. While I very strongly identify with her interpersonal problems resulting from poor awareness of Fe and Fi (especially Fe), she really is an extreme case. Most people are more adaptable in their areas of weakness than she is.

[Joy]

One thing I don't like is the way they treat Sweets.

[silverchris9]

Yay! A convert to the Bones-is-Fi-valuing theory.

Anyway, it is annoying how they treat sweets like he's five. My theory is that he's alpha. But they do treat him nicer eventually...

[Joy]

I'm pretty much stuck on generic NT for her right now. And generic SF for Booth. There's contradictory evidence. And they changed from season 1 to season 2 to season 4.

I was thinking Sweets is IEE.

[silverchris9]

That is the classic "psychologist" type, and I do totally see where he shows both Ne and Fi (Fi especially in the episode where Angela is mad at Cam for sleeping with her ex-husband). But, the contradictory evidence rears its head again, because in the episode where he gets a second chance for the intern girl that annoys Bones so much who he happens to also be dating, Sweets is, to my mind, clearly portrayed as a logical type and the intern/girlfriend as an incredibly annoying Fe-valuer. I wish I could remember what episode it was, because that episode was a big part of me settling on ILI for Bones and alpha NT for Sweets. The problem is that the episodes are written by many different writers, and the original writers were too stupid to consult socionics to find the correct type for their characters and force all subsequent writers to keep the types of the characters consistent. This would have fixed everything.

I can agree with generic NT and generic SF for Bones/Booth. I tend to like ILI Bones better, but there are aspects of her personality in various episodes that don't fit with this.

[Joy]

I don't know which episode you're talking about, but the first episode I ever saw was the one where Bones and Booth see Daisy trying on a wedding dress and think that she's engaged to someone else and seeing Sweets on the side. I caught it while visiting a friend, and I wasn't entirely paying attention to what was happening in it. I was interested in the show, however, because I identified so much with Bones, so I downloaded it and began watching it in sequence. I've just gotten to the point of watching that episode again.

I don't know about Daisy's type, but Sweets still seems most like an IEE to me.

I don't see an IP temperament for Bones at all. On the contrary, if I had to pick a temperament for her, I'd definitely say EJ. IJ would be my second choice.

I will say this though, fwiw: there are very few characters that I identify with. Octavian from Rome, Doogie Howser, and a small handful of anime/manga characters. I strongly identify Bones though. I'm not as Ti as she is, but I'm also not a scientist or a fictional character.

[Krig the Viking]

I, on the other hand, am a fictional character.

[Joy]

Yeah? That's pretty sweet.

[Joy]

It is weird that the older psychologist's understanding of the relationship between Booth and Bones was so much more accurate than Sweets (or rather, that Sweet's was so inaccurate). I think it's been obvious since about the 5th episode that Booth is aware that he has romantic feelings for Bones. She seems genuinely oblivious to their feelings for each other though.

[Joy]

But, the contradictory evidence rears its head again, because in the episode where he gets a second chance for the intern girl that annoys Bones so much who he happens to also be dating, Sweets is, to my mind, clearly portrayed as a logical type and the intern/girlfriend as an incredibly annoying Fe-valuer.

Just saw it. Season 5, episode 5. To me, Sweets was still very IEE. Daisy was someone with weak Fe and Fi (but definitely a focus on Fe and Fi). Everyone around her just wants her to stop trying so hard.

After saying that I hardly ever relate to fictional characters, it's a bit weird to say this... but I also relate to Cam. And even a teensy bit to Daisy. (I was home schooled.)

[silverchris9]

Just saw it. Season 5, episode 5. To me, Sweets was still very IEE. Daisy was someone with weak Fe and Fi (but definitely a focus on Fe and Fi). Everyone around her just wants her to stop trying so hard.

I guess that makes sense. I saw her as someone with strong Fe who was just played for laughs as being all-over-the-place with it. It seemed like Fe-ego (Daisy) meets Fe-polr (Bones), mostly from the perspective of Fe-polr, if that makes sense. Maybe Daisy could be a Ti-ego with weak but valued Fe. I can see what you're saying about Sweets. I can completely see the Fi already, and I'll have to revisit it next time I watch bones to look for the Ne.

After saying that I hardly ever relate to fictional characters, it's a bit weird to say this... but I also relate to Cam. And even a teensy bit to Daisy. (I was home schooled.)

Heh, I guess Bones is a show that really works for you. I kind of wish I related to Hodgins, because I would love to be a cool lab geek instead of just a non-cool theater geek, but I don't really. *shrug*.

[marooned]

I've seen a few episodes of this show and I really don't know what I would type Bones as. I'd probably consider both Ti dominants though... but I can't really decipher if she's Ti or Te.

As for Booth, I'm not sure about that character either but I think ESE can work. I recall one scene where he was driving in England and was getting all confused about having to drive on the opposite side of the road and the general road rules, having an ongoing freak-out about it, finally stopping in the middle of an intersection to get out of the car and scream about it for several minutes. Anyway although this scene was all campy and what not I do tend to see him as an emotional venter who needs to take several moments to "let it all out" rather often. But I can't really rule out SEE (and EIE might be worth considering). So far I'm not sure what Booth actually does aside from his role as the gun-wielding loud person since the forensics people are generally the ones who solve the entire case. But it seems he makes the arrests and is the more vocal one in questioning people (sometimes using intimidation) and coming up with undercover ideas and pulling strings with the FBI or whatever (so he gets the rest of it moving, aside from the forensics side of things, so I've changed my mind about his role and now recognize its importance). And I mean he's clearly the ethical one while Bones is incredibly logical. Also Bones appears to value his skill at reading people (getting a feel for people and interpreting their feelings) and tends to rely on these instincts of his.

I guess Ti dominant and ESE works for the two of them. I'm not sure though why Bones would have to be LII rather than LSI though. I also think that they both might just not fit very well into particular types maybe taking on too many qualities of several types.

On a side note, I was wondering about IEI or something for Sweets (horrible, horrible name). I don't really understand the IEE or Delta suggestions as he isn't really close to how I would perceive IEE.

---

Edit: I've watched more episodes and I'm having some issues with Bones as a character. Often Bones seems to be in the position of being utterly oblivious to things that are (I think) common knowledge for most people. I remember in one episode she didn't understand the notion that this dead college basketball player's representative might have really only been helping the player and his family for the fame and fortune he anticipates the player will get when he goes pro. Anyway Bones was not only confused about Booth's "sense" of this person but to the idea that people attach themselves to talented sports players and find ways to deceive them with deals and contracts so they can make money out of them later (I thought that was a rather common idea, but Bones was all *but what incentive could So-and-so have to do that* or whatever to which Booth replies that these players make a lot of money if/when they go pro which seemed to be some sort of revelation to Bones). Granted I don't really know if this is a myth or not but I've definitely heard of it before and even if I hadn't, the concept isn't that hard to simply imagine.

Anyway my impression was that the writers determined that Bones doesn't know anything about "sports things" because sports isn't "brainy" and that was a huge theme in the episode that Booth was a former jock and Bones thought sports were unintelligent... but it generally feels like the writers decide that certain things are complete unknowns to Bones since they don't fall into categorizations of what is brainy. There was another episode where Bones seemed entirely oblivious about gambling in casinos as a concept or something & another episode where Bones revealed that she'd never heard of black metal before and expressed confusion about what it could possibly be (she did however know the Norwegian word for 'skull' pointing out that since she's a forensic anthropologist she knows the word for skull in every language... anyway what Bones knows and doesn't know is just too dichotomized). Anyway I hope I'm recalling these examples right, but the point is that I've noticed it's a trend that with certain things it's like she was born yesterday or comes from the planet Vulcan or something and Booth has to explain it to her (as though she actually does come from another planet or culture). Also regarding her emotional obliviousness I think it's a little over-the-top as well (she's a little too oblivious... but I suppose she could be borderline autistic or something).

Anyway my general feeling of Ti leading has rather increased (although I'm still at odds with Ti vs. Te). I think that maybe part of it is that Bones takes significant interest in wanting to understand why people react the way they do and the underlying things that indicate their motivations/intentions to Booth as she can't seem to decipher them herself most of the time... she also on at least one occasion said she wanted to be able to do what Booth does and be good with people in the way he is... Anyway I know that this doesn't say anything on Fi seeking vs. Fe seeking, but I'm just starting to feel that Fe DS may fit her rather well.

As a disclaimer, I should mention that Basketball episode was like the 2nd one in the show so maybe the writers were still getting a feel for Bones' character and since I've seen episodes in random order I don't have a clear notion of how her character changes/evolves over the course of things. I still though think that she is a very "Mr. Spock" like character who is both emotionally oblivious and who needs the more commonplace aspects of her own society explained to her because in her life in academia being a genius she has little knowledge of things that most people have at least some concept of (it's almost as though she has little conception of how things work in society outside of her world of academia/anthropology and forensics investigations). She really is a rather stereotypical "nerdy" character.

It could also be though, were I to suspend my skepticism, that Bones actually has a sort of arrogance about which things are worthy her attention or knowing about... for instance perhaps she deliberately ignores information on some topics because she considers these topics (e.g. the world of basketball and other sports) worthless and unintelligent (i.e. why should she concern herself with knowing anything about these things that are stupid and only dumb people concern themselves with). Of course then though she expresses curiosity about them when they're brought up as she must be curious about all subjects at all times since she's just so "nerdy" and "brainy". Not that this would be unnatural. I mean obviously one doesn't concern themselves with topics in which they aren't interested unless of course they have to for some reason. It's just a lot of these things you just hear enough tidbits about here and there to start forming an idea of them and even though you don't know much about them, won't be entirely blown out of the water when they're brought up because they exist as part of your conception of the world. Bones does come across as having lived a very sheltered existence of book-learning and all, but I think I just find her character overly contrived in these ways.

[HERO]

Dr. Temperance "Bones" Brennan: SLI (Te-ISTp)

Seeley Booth: IEE (Fi-ENFp)

[Aleksei]

Booth- obvious SEE-Fi. David Boreanaz seems to be the same type. My gut reaction for Bones was LII-Ti, but she seems Fe-devaluing, and she isn't Booth's conflictor. ILI-Te sounds good for her.

Bones- ILI-Te, 5w6 sp/so (ISTJ)
Booth- SEE-Fi, 2w3 so/sp (ESFJ)
Cam- LIE-Te, 3w2 sp/so (ESTJ)
Hodgins- ILE-Ne, 3w2 sx/sp (ENTP)
Angela- ESE-Si, 7w6 sx/sp (ESTP)
Zack- LII-Ti, 5w4 sp/so (INTP)

[Krig the Viking]

Booth- obvious SEE-Fi. David Boreanaz seems to be the same type. My gut reaction for Bones was LII-Ti, but she seems Fe-devaluing, and she isn't Booth's conflictor. ILI-Te sounds good for her.

Bones- ILI-Te, 5w6 sp/so (ISTJ)
Booth- SEE-Fi, 2w3 so/sp (ESFJ)
Cam- LIE-Te, 3w2 sp/so (ESTJ)
Hodgins- ILE-Ne, 3w2 sx/sp (ENTP)
Angela- ESE-Si, 7w6 sx/sp (ESTP)
Zack- LII-Ti, 5w4 sp/so (INTP)

So, in your estimation, Angela and Bones, who are best friends on the show, are Conflictors? As are Booth and Zack?



I'm sure I've posted this elsewhere, but in my estimation:

Bones: D-LII
Booth: N-ESE
Zack: N-LII
Sweets: H-LII
Daisy: C-ESE

Hodgins: Not sure. ILE? I previously thought SLI, but that's probably wrong.
Angela: IEE? Having re-evaluated Hodgins, I may have to take a second look at Angela. I was always less certain of these two's typings.

Booth is a pretty typical depiction of a male ESE, in my opinion. SEEs are more aggressive and carefree/careless.

[Aleksei]

So, in your estimation, Angela and Bones, who are best friends on the show, are Conflictors? As are Booth and Zack?

Angela is certainly a Merry extrovert type, and her mannerisms seem somewhat foreign to Bones. She could be EIE though, or SLE. Zack could be ILI-Ni.

[1981slater]

Bones alpha NT>gamma NT(she explains theoretical models to bouncers)...actress SLI
Booth merry sensor...actor ESI?
Hodgins ILE...actor ILE!
Zack alpha NT...actor Ne ego
Angela alpha SF...actress alpha SF

[Aleksei]

Hmm, David Boreanaz could be a Merry sensor... I assumed his cheerfulness was just EP temperament (the SEEs I know are pretty cheery), because he just plays Gamma SFs so damn well.

[DividedsGhost]

Just wanted to throw this out there: I kind of thought Bones was supposed to be portraying an LII and Booth was supposed to be portraying an LSE. I thought they were kind of illusionary-ish in that regard. Booth displays some signs of Ni PoLR with Bones when she makes a prediction and sometimes becomes very happy and receptive of Bones for making the occasional Fi judgement(s). And Bones is surprisingly receptive to the Se of Booth.

Edit: Someone made me watch this :/

[DividedsGhost]

After discussing this show today while watching it with an SEI, I must retype Booth as ESE.

Yes, I like this much better.

Now it's time to take over the internet using socionics!

[Krig the Viking]

Catching up on the show again. I'm beginning to look more closely at the idea that Angela may be an SEI. She seems decidedly like an Irrational type to me, but I've been getting to know several IEEs in Real Life, and they all seem less... fluid. Their body language is more choppy and sort of stiff, like an ILE's is, and I get a totally different "vibe" from them than I do from Angela. Activation would also better explain Angela's and Bones' close friendship.

It's still an open question in my mind, at the moment.

[Addendum: Anyone have any ideas for the type of Booth's reporter girlfriend Hannah? Booth seems to be trying to "Caregive" her, and she isn't responding particularly well to it, so I think she's probably Decisive, anyway. Probably Extraverted. Can't narrow it down any further yet.]
[Addendum 2: I think Hannah may have been SLE.]

[Joy]

LSI for Brennan. ESE for Booth.

[Joy]

I think people (myself included) used to tend to assume she's NT because she's so socially awkward avid into science, but I think we've grown beyond that. She's clearly extremely focused on only what is readily definable and measurable.

[Joy]

I think people (myself included) used to tend to assume she's NT because she's so socially awkward avid into science, but I think we've grown beyond that. She's clearly extremely focused on only what is readily definable and measurable.

In addition, she has no patience for hunches and intuition in anything related to logic. She respects it when it's related to ethics, however. This points to ST with NF valuing. As for Beta vs. Delta, she demonstrate extreme confidence and comfort in Se. She acts like she doesn't really "get" Fe, but she respects it depending on the source. She also enjoys role playing Fe when she goes under cover (she's a bit too good at it, but that's because she's a fictional character). She also values extreme structure, doing things properly, respect for hierarchy (though she may rebel if she thinks someone in charge is wrong, of course). The IJ temperament fits her very well (though EJ is a close second because she's a D subtype). Ne PoLR works well for her.

As for Booth, he is very clearly ethical (as clearly as Brennan is logical). His automatic response to events around him is emotional reaction, and he's not shy or apologetic about expressing it. He also uses emotions to manipulate suspects into making mistakes (get under their skin). When Brennan is explaining things logically, his response is "well this is what I know" and goes on to say ethical things. He is also very Se heavy, but in his case I believe it's his demonstrative/8th function because he also exhibits signs of Ne Hidden Agenda (which is where his clashes with Brennan come from). He wants to believe that there are things out there that we don't and can't understand from a scientific perspective. I believe I also see Ni PoLR in his actions and sometimes explanations. That said, I would be open to considering Gamma SF for him. I think ESE is a much better fit on whole though. Also, it seems like the actor who plays him probably isn't Fe dominant, so his facial expressions aren't as exaggerated as you'd typically see with an ESE. His masculinity is appropriate for a male ES type and in no way whatsoever related to logic.

[anndelise]

I'm surprised I didn't post in this thread.
I think TiSe is a pretty darned good fit for her.

[aisa]

Bones LxI & Booth ESE

[Joy]

I've heard a case for ILI and SEE for Bones and Booth, and I'm not super opposed. I think the actors who play them are not those types though, and that throws me off because I do see some Se in Bones, but I don't see a ton in Booth.