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Thread: ISFjs & ESFps and lying

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    Default ISFjs & ESFps and lying

    Do they tend to lie bit too much? Even perhaps revel in it?

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    I hope not :frown:

    I don't think it's type related, but I'm sure that if it is, it would depend on what the lie is about.

    I would think that they would be least inclined to lie especially when it comes to their inner circle.
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    Not only they lie a heap, but they are also manipulative. What they don't seem to understand is that their gamma NT duals see through bullshit like a hot knife cuts through butter. Their petty games and manipulations and whatnot might work against other types, but not against the gamma NTs.

    Tis' your lesson today kiddos.

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    I frequently tell white lies that are not malicious.

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    from my observations alot of their lies come from them being pussies
    INTp

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    I have a cousin who is an ESI that is a habitual, compulsive, and excellent liar. So is his dad, who I believe is also ESI. But any type can be a good liar. What's type related is how they go about lying, and perhaps the actual content of the lie.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carla View Post
    It's a filthy habit. You shouldn't believe a word that they say.
    since when have YOU been SEE

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    What's type related is how they go about lying, and perhaps the actual content of the lie.
    explain?

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedratXII View Post
    from my observations alot of their lies come from them being pussies
    Projection.^

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    It really isn't.
    INTp

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    Quote Originally Posted by xkj220 View Post
    Not only they lie a heap, but they are also manipulative. What they don't seem to understand is that their gamma NT duals see through bullshit like a hot knife cuts through butter. Their petty games and manipulations and whatnot might work against other types, but not against the gamma NTs.

    Tis' your lesson today kiddos.
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    Everybody lies, I don't think Gamma SF's are anymore prone to it.
    But I suppose it would depend on what the "lie" is and the reason for it.

    Maybe you can give some examples of Gamma SF's lies...?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    Everybody lies, I don't think Gamma SF's are anymore prone to it.
    But I suppose it would depend on what the "lie" is and the reason for it.

    Maybe you can give some examples of Gamma SF's lies...?
    yes, SEE's tend to give unsincere compliments, which can be regarded as lies.

    Also when they need a quick way out, they say that they are sick etc. They have no problem with that.

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    I don't think Gamma SF's are more prone to lying than any other type. The manner in which they lie, the reasons they lie, and the things they lie about may be different.
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    I've found ESIs to be, on the whole, more honest/straight-forward than most other types... When they "lie," it's usually by omission (i.e. preference to not confront someone directly, so as to keep decorum/avoid unpleasantness.) They have a tendency to believe the best about others, and let less-than-ideal things slide until they become big issues.

    I
    've found ESFps to be prone to boasting/exaggerating, e.g. "Who do you think built [this organization]?" etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xkj220 View Post
    Not only they lie a heap, but they are also manipulative. What they don't seem to understand is that their gamma NT duals see through bullshit like a hot knife cuts through butter. Their petty games and manipulations and whatnot might work against other types, but not against the gamma NTs.

    Tis' your lesson today kiddos.
    It must work pretty well if they end up staying around

    I agree with what Jarno said about SEEs. I have experienced a lot of insincere compliments and excuses to get out of things because they don't want to say no or because they have something they are more interested in doing. I also agree with Juju that SEEs will lie while exaggerating, though they probably don't do it on purpose (there are quite a lot of types that do this, especially Fe valuers from my view). I don't really see SEEs as too manipulative... its more like they will make things seem a lot more exciting/fun than they really are to get you to go along and somehow they convince you to go along lol.

    I think I tend to lie to get out of situations that would make me uncomfortable and when I can't be straightforward with the person because they would be upset or unwaveringly persistent. I would say I am not very manipulative. I prefer to deal with things directly. I can't stand when people try to be manipulative and I call them out their BS and will expose their trail of manipulations for all to see.
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    Yeah, that sounds about right, lol. It's pretty fun and you'll like it.

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    The SEE I live with (my husband of 17+ years) tends to manipulate things but doesn't see that he is doing so. Like I say something funny, and he's on the phone with a work buddy, his sister, or whomever, and he says to them the funny thing I said, 'cept it's not what I said by a long shot. Over and over again he's done that.

    I see him in person too, telling people things that are blatantly not true, and he doesn't think a thing about it. He's not "lying" he just totally gets things so mixed up, embellished for whatever reason, he has no idea what's what.

    The thing connected to this is he tells stories, like events from work that are ludicrous, he'll try to explain things to people at church, and he tells half the story, but in a half-backwards way and leaves out key details and then goes on to cite events assigning them to those key details (since I know the whole story I know what's missing) but he never told that person and they look at him like he's nuts, and he never notices any of this and fights me tooth and nail if I try to show him what happened or say anything about it.

    He goes on to say often, "Other people don't have a problem with how I talk" and it's like, yeah, maybe that's the way it seems, but it's because I'm the only one that won't stand for it and there are no NT's in the crowd of other people you talk to. FWIW.

    He does "lie" on purpose a-times, for really weird reasons though. Nothing I can really explain, just any old thing, hiding the truth, things that me, an ILI would have no problem saying the truth about, he hides behind some embellished lie instead. It's weird to me.

    I'm all about telling the truth or saying nothing. He knows the sales axiom of "the first one to talk loses" but get him into many personal situations and what does he do? "Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah", filling in the silence with blah, blah, blah embellished stuff.

    He's not a bad guy though. FWIW
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    I also embellish stories when I tell them, to make them more interesting for the listener. Obviously, as long as it's just a casual/friends setting, thus not a truly relevant setting. Of course, Fe PoLR people are the least likely to do this...but it's not necessarily something good, it can make for some heavy/boring conversations.
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    the real boring conversations are the ones an Si dominant type traps you into and won't leave you alone about
    INTp

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    SEE's also tend to 'lie' when making promises.

    It's like more of a formality of them to make promises then actually oblige them.

    For example:

    Next time we'll come to your place!
    I'll call you back!

    ...they won't.

    It's like they just have a bigger repertoire of formalities as the average person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    SEE's also tend to 'lie' when making promises.

    It's like more of a formality of them to make promises then actually oblige them.

    Oh yeah, that's a great one. Hubby does that ALL the time to everyone in the family and not, and it's worse when you realize how much he does it and actually doesn't do anything about any of the "promises".

    Sometimes he says something and follows through, but if I had my video recorder going each time it'd be easy to prove how it's not really a promise but a firm statement of activity to happen, when the actual "promise" thing is just a "wish list" kind of thing. "Wish this was true, so I will make a promise to you" that he will, when in fact he won't.

    From my ILI point of view it's all so false and makes me feel ILL. But yet I married him. Misery loves company, I guess.
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazymaisy View Post
    From my ILI point of view it's all so false and makes me feel ILL.
    I can totally recognize that.

    The SEE fakeness, however not bad intended, is their worst trait.

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    SEEs don't lie! They just make empty promises that other people count as lying. But these lies have no bad intentios...
    SLEs are the ones who lie a lot....to make them look better than they actually are in other people eyes.

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    They have never seemed anywhere near the first candidate targets for such an insinuation to me. ESFps in particular always seem to stand out to me for their brutal honesty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sarinana View Post
    SEEs don't lie! They just make empty promises that other people count as lying. But these lies have no bad intentios...
    yes that's also how I said it. So I think most people will see through it and don't count it as bad intentions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    They have never seemed anywhere near the first candidate targets for such an insinuation to me. ESFps in particular always seem to stand out to me for their brutal honesty.
    didn't you ever notice any fakeness than?

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    They have never seemed anywhere near the first candidate targets for such an insinuation to me. ESFps in particular always seem to stand out to me for their brutal honesty.
    This sounds like you're somehow admiring them, which strikes me as weird...

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    didn't you ever notice any fakeness than?
    There is the occasional time that I do, for example, in this fictional ESFp character:



    It's just my perception that this is more of an exception than the general rule.


    As for "brutal honesty", I'm refering to something like this:



    Hugo Chaves is another example, of course.

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    ...
    Last edited by energystar; 03-01-2010 at 09:06 PM.

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    The lies I tell are just little things here and there that help to "glaze" things over. It's no big deal, and it improves relations.

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    Seeing as how the only people that I know who are ISFj, are a bit drama queenish, I am unwilling to pass judgement on ISFjs. That said the SEEs that I know tend to tell lies like, I will be in touch, blah blah blah, I have come to expect that it won't happen so I take it as an attempt to be friendly, but not as an attempt to be honest.
    LIE-Ni, i think, but maybe ILI

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    It's very possible that they were sincere when they said it and simply don't end up getting around to it.
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    SEE don't lie, they don't say whole truth...
    I'm SEE. 2w3.

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    don't press them for things that aren't your business and they won't lie to you. i have never had a problem with them lying to me, probably because i don't care about the things they might lie about.
    INTp

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